Any trading site in which you can do this?

[maokoto]

Let's say I put an order to buy 0.5 BTC at 440$. Then I want to put an order to sell 0.2 at 445$ ONLY if the first order fills, and without even having the BTC beforehand (I will only have then if the first order fills, that is).

Is there any exchange allowing to do this, even if it is for a fee?

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[RodeoX]

I don't actually know, but I assume not. If I understand correctly that would expose the exchange to intolerable risk.

[equator]

Let's say I put an order to buy 0.5 BTC at 440$. Then I want to put an order to sell 0.2 at 445$ ONLY if the first order fills, and without even having the BTC beforehand (I will only have then if the first order fills, that is).

Is there any exchange allowing to do this, even if it is for a fee?

This can be done only in tha exchange where fiat currency is accepted so if you have fiat currency then what you are saying can be done, but without any thing no one gives you like this entry in any exchange.

[Serpens66]

Kraken.com has this feature. It is called Conditional Close Orders: https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/203053246-Other-Order-Options

[equator]

Kraken.com has this feature. It is called Conditional Close Orders: https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/203053246-Other-Order-Options

Just now checked your link and it is telling the same thing, They are giving Conditional Close but only when you have Fiat Currency or Bitcoins in your Account. Then only you can create a Buying and Selling Order. If everything is Zero you cannot place the order.

[shorena]

Let's say I put an order to buy 0.5 BTC at 440$. Then I want to put an order to sell 0.2 at 445$ ONLY if the first order fills, and without even having the BTC beforehand (I will only have then if the first order fills, that is).

Is there any exchange allowing to do this, even if it is for a fee?

It makes no sense for any service (even casinos) to offer this. The other party will expect a real value (be that in BTC or in Fiat) and the exchange will have to provide that out of their own pockets until you have made profit. Since the price changes are not predictable the exchange would take all risks, while you would not risk anything, only profit. Usually its the other way around.

[Serpens66]

Kraken.com has this feature. It is called Conditional Close Orders: https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/203053246-Other-Order-Options

Just now checked your link and it is telling the same thing, They are giving Conditional Close but only when you have Fiat Currency or Bitcoins in your Account. Then only you can create a Buying and Selling Order. If everything is Zero you cannot place the order.

of course you can't place an order, if everything is zero. But the OP asked for a way to place a buy order with a conditional sell order, without having bitocins in his account. So of course he has the fiat in his account to place the buy order

[yohanip]

I am quite curious as to what kind of risk/expose are there for the exchange to provide such feature?

I don't actually know, but I assume not. If I understand correctly that would expose the exchange to intolerable risk.

[Serpens66]

I am quite curious as to what kind of risk/expose are there for the exchange to provide such feature?

I don't actually know, but I assume not. If I understand correctly that would expose the exchange to intolerable risk.

the conditional close from Kraken has of course no risk.

Maybe he also thought, that the OP want to place orders completely without bitcoins and fiat.
But this is also possible at some exchanges in the one or another way.
1) bitcoin.de allows you to place sell orders of bitcoins which can stay in your own wallet. Of course this trade offer is marked and I did not see a single one in the market, because it is very time consuming (buyer accepts sell order, seller has to send the bitcoins to bitcoin.de, after that the buyer sends the money ...)
2) bit-x allows to use your balance more often. If you have 1 BTC at bit-x, you can place a limit sell order for 600€ about 1 BTC, another one for 700€ and another for 800€ and so on.  That's why the orderbook of bit-x is quite full (for being a very small exchange). To prevent the users to place too many orders, you have to pay a fee for placing an order.  As soon as the first of the sell orders is filled, the other orders will be removed from the orderbook.
I know, this does not make any sense (because of course the 600€ order is filled first)... but this is how I understood their orderbook. You can read it here (unfunded order): https://bit-x.com/guide/funded-unfunded-and-on-hold-orders
.. maybe when you have several unfunded orders, and then deposit more, they will become funded. But I think it is not worth to pay a fee for placing an order.

[maokoto]

Kraken.com has this feature. It is called Conditional Close Orders: https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/203053246-Other-Order-Options

Just now checked your link and it is telling the same thing, They are giving Conditional Close but only when you have Fiat Currency or Bitcoins in your Account. Then only you can create a Buying and Selling Order. If everything is Zero you cannot place the order.

of course you can't place an order, if everything is zero. But the OP asked for a way to place a buy order with a conditional sell order, without having bitocins in his account. So of course he has the fiat in his account to place the buy order

Exactly. I was intending to mean that I do have the fiat to do that. An exchange that allowed to put such an order without the fiat would be risking their money to make their users gain...

[bitmarket.net]

What you are refering to is "One Triggers the Other" order or OTO.
This is quite common with the forex brokers.

[RodeoX]

I am quite curious as to what kind of risk/expose are there for the exchange to provide such feature?

I don't actually know, but I assume not. If I understand correctly that would expose the exchange to intolerable risk.

the conditional close from Kraken has of course no risk.

Maybe he also thought, that the OP want to place orders completely without bitcoins and fiat.
But this is also possible at some exchanges in the one or another way.
1) bitcoin.de allows you to place sell orders of bitcoins which can stay in your own wallet. Of course this trade offer is marked and I did not see a single one in the market, because it is very time consuming (buyer accepts sell order, seller has to send the bitcoins to bitcoin.de, after that the buyer sends the money ...)
2) bit-x allows to use your balance more often. If you have 1 BTC at bit-x, you can place a limit sell order for 600€ about 1 BTC, another one for 700€ and another for 800€ and so on.  That's why the orderbook of bit-x is quite full (for being a very small exchange). To prevent the users to place too many orders, you have to pay a fee for placing an order.  As soon as the first of the sell orders is filled, the other orders will be removed from the orderbook.
I know, this does not make any sense (because of course the 600€ order is filled first)... but this is how I understood their orderbook. You can read it here (unfunded order): https://bit-x.com/guide/funded-unfunded-and-on-hold-orders
.. maybe when you have several unfunded orders, and then deposit more, they will become funded. But I think it is not worth to pay a fee for placing an order.

You are right about what I thought (misunderstood). I assumed he was trying to sell coins he does not actually own yet.