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Author Topic: Prioritized transactions, and tx fees  (Read 7470 times)
QuantumMechanic
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October 03, 2010, 08:42:00 PM
 #21

Where does the 1Mb limit come from? Is it a technical limit, or simply hardcoded to save bandwidth?

It's just an arbitrary limit, probably to limit the effects of DoS attacks. You won't accept blocks over 1 decimal megabyte.

Is there a technical limit beyond this artificial one?  Would it just be the bandwidth available to the weakest (in terms of bandwidth) nodes, or are there any inherent limitations of the p2p network itself?
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martin
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October 03, 2010, 09:14:48 PM
 #22

I doubt there is a technical limit, I can't see any reason there should be such a limit (besides, as already mentioned, protecting from DoS attacks).

That means that if the limited block size becomes a problem, it can be scaled up at such a time. Which also means we probably don't need to worry about it at the moment.

theymos
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October 03, 2010, 09:32:08 PM
 #23

Is there a technical limit beyond this artificial one?  Would it just be the bandwidth available to the weakest (in terms of bandwidth) nodes, or are there any inherent limitations of the p2p network itself?

If there are any technical limits (from data types or whatever), they can be eliminated in the same way that MAX_BLOCK_SIZE can be increased.

Storage is the main issue, I think: an attacker could create huge blocks that every full network node has to store forever. With just 1 BTC you can create a block of 15+ GB by splitting it into 100,000,000 "nanocoins".

In the future most people will run Bitcoin in a "simple" mode that doesn't require downloading full blocks or transactions. At that point MAX_BLOCK_SIZE can be increased a lot.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
dmg46664
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June 09, 2011, 07:19:34 PM
 #24

Storage is the main issue, I think: an attacker could create huge blocks that every full network node has to store forever. With just 1 BTC you can create a block of 15+ GB by splitting it into 100,000,000 "nanocoins".

How about this idea! The algorithm is updated to deny any blocks that have transactions in them that are less than 1/10th of the average (or median) transaction fee from say the last 300 blocks. That does mean that the currency isn't effectively divisible... but it isn't anyway! In that your transactions will never get processed if you send them with less than the lowest fees (as the fees start to rise). It would then become quite costly (in bitcoins) to launch such an attack.

If you like this idea, send some bitcoin happiness to
1Gc3BAjW4jD1GCCphdqCSNsWHFHGyu8k4f

I just joined the craze last week! :-)

Daniel G
Apologies if this idea has already been mentioned...
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July 21, 2015, 11:52:06 AM
 #25

It ramps up the fee requirement as the block fills up:

<50KB  free
50KB   0.01
250KB  0.02
333KB  0.03
375KB  0.04
etc.

It's a typical pricing mechanism.  After the first 50KB sells out, the price is raised to 0.01.  After 250KB is sold, it goes up to 0.02.  At some price, you can pretty much always get in if you're willing to outbid the other customers.

Just including the minimum 0.01 goes a long way.

Satoshi's response to the block size debate.


Also:

The current threshold is 200KB per block, or about 1000 transactions per block.  I think it should be lowered to 50KB per block.  That would still be more than 100 times the average transactions per block.

The threshold can easily be changed in the future.  We can decide to increase it when the time comes.  It's a good idea to keep it lower as a circuit breaker and increase it as needed.  If we hit the threshold now, it would almost certainly be some kind of flood and not actual use.  Keeping the threshold lower would help limit the amount of wasted disk space in that event.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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July 23, 2015, 07:22:57 AM
 #26

Um, why Elwar?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
iCEBREAKER
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February 07, 2016, 04:58:34 AM
 #27

Scaling to high transaction rate has always been my main concern about viability of bitcoin.  I'm much more concerned about scalability than government shutdown, for example.

The 'fancy Visa' heresy is older than I thought!

Talk about failing to grok the ethos (early and often).

So Garzik is a limousine libertarian.  No wonder he's so eager to help Olivier Janssens engage in pointless/dangerous vanity forks based on retail payment rail business requirements.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
Kprawn
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February 07, 2016, 06:35:16 AM
 #28

There are a lot of people who do not want Bitcoin to be another PayPal or a VISA competitor. I disagree with them, because I think the cheaper micro transactions

capability of Bitcoin is one of it's strongest advantages. We should concentrate on tapping the potential of the strong points, without sacrificing the security. I think the

hesitation to increase the block size, come from the risk it pose for the security. We should find a good balance between performance and security, before we go forward

with a fork. 

iCEBREAKER
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February 07, 2016, 03:43:18 PM
 #29

There are a lot of people who do not want Bitcoin to be another PayPal or a VISA competitor. I disagree with them, because I think the cheaper micro transactions capability of Bitcoin is one of it's strongest advantages.

The fantasy of making BTC into yet another PayPal or VISA competitor is never going to happen on Layer One.

Bitfury Valery permanently demolished that nonsense in this domination post.

https://medium.com/@BitFuryGroup/keep-calm-and-bitcoin-on-4f29d581276

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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