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Author Topic: Rollin.io is a scam !/?  (Read 6099 times)
Juliete_rollin
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January 07, 2016, 12:44:57 AM
 #1

Hello ladies and gentleman's at request of Mod Loyce i will discuss this issue here

Rollin is a scam cause of their " fair " system, lets take a look:

You can check your server hash that will result in your server seed, and you can check (and define) your client seed, so far so good as all normal online dice casinos, however there is a miracle seed ( for the owners )  called " random seed ". According to their fair crap, all the math is correct, client seed + server seed + random seed, all is correct and it is! However how can you verify the fair of the roll if one of the seeds is given to you only after you roll, that magic scam seed (random seed) comes from the so so honest server, and serve to we..hmmm...humm...lets try figure it out what they say about the random seed:

From: https://rollin.io/fair
Quote
Before the player rolls, we generate a random string of characters on the server used as the "server seed". A hash of the server seed is shown to the player (to prove we can’t change the server seed). We create the server hash by combining the server seed and random seed together. 

Ok...interesting but..where the random seed comes from, why it is there...lets keep looking:

Quote
server_hash = @crypto.SHA256 server_seed + random_seed 

wow wow!!! No wait, they just typed random_seed in there, no explanation where it comes and what it serve to, Lets keep reading more boring scam stuff to find from where " random seed " (scam seed) comes from:

Quote
The player provides his own random client seed. We combine the server seed and client seed to generate the seed that will be used for the Mersenne Twister shuffle. This will generate a random number between 0-99. 

Hmmmm nop....not here too, and we reach the end of their fair explanation. So, how it is fair if there is one seed that you can't control and you don't have previous knowledge, a seed that is given by the server at it will, their math: client seed + server seed + scam seed it will give you the right math , the right number, however is a so so magical and so so honest seed that you can only know it after you finish the roll.

Bottom of line is , you have the client seed and server hash to verify your roll , but they enter this sweet seed that pops up from no where, so server (they) can manipulate the output roll. In real life comparison is: a guy tells you if you roll a sum of 2 you win ,and he give you 3 dices to roll... if you know what i mean Wink

You just can't introduce a seed after the roll, there is no way to verify if it is fair, and probably is not.

Rollin is made by some scammer with afraid of don't get rich.

Tank you for your time, take care! Be safe from scams.



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January 07, 2016, 12:47:41 AM
 #2

You should move this to scam accusations.


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CASlO
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January 07, 2016, 01:08:13 AM
 #3

interesting.... hmmm...oh well, i have 3 accounts on positive profit there..so i really cant complain.. Wink

hmmm..but then again..all gambling sites are designed as to generate profit for the owners at the gamblers expense,..so.. guys, if you dont want to lose your money, just dont gamble in gambling sites..its not a good way to profit really..only few people really do..because for you to get big profit from gambling, someone or some people has to lose big time...so thats it... unless your just doing it for fun...gambling is not advisable.. Cool

Juliete_rollin
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January 07, 2016, 01:15:36 AM
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interesting.... hmmm...oh well, i have 3 accounts on positive profit there..so i really cant complain.. Wink

hmmm..but then again..all gambling sites are designed as to generate profit for the owners at the gamblers expense,..so.. guys, if you dont want to lose your money, just dont gamble in gambling sites..its not a good way to profit really..only few people really do..because for you to get big profit from gambling, someone or some people has to lose big time...so thats it... unless your just doing it for fun...gambling is not advisable.. Cool

Sir, i'am questioning about the fair system and i didn't read nothing about it from you, if you can explain me where the random seed comes from i appreciate Wink And yes if all accounts were in loss that would be very lame and shocking.

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tarsua
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January 07, 2016, 01:18:05 AM
 #5

yup, why have an unverifyable seed?
Scam confirmed
CASlO
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January 07, 2016, 01:28:43 AM
 #6

haha!! sorry but im pretty dumb..i have no clue about those things...sorry cant help you with that "random seed" thingy....i think only the admins of the site has the full knowledge about the full process... and only they can clearly explain where that thingy came from...so my best advice is to contact support on the site..one of the admins does the reply for such support request..you can ask them there..replies usually takes a day or two...but not longer, or better yet.. you can invite them to discuss it here on this thread..for only they can accurately answer your queries, so i hope you do so.

and i really dont give a rats ass about such things...i only gamble for fun...winning is just a side prize Tongue

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January 07, 2016, 01:37:12 AM
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Maybe they just misworded that statement - do you have any proof that it's not a randomly generated seed... created by the client? As it should be?

One simple way to prove - is there a place where you can input your own client seed?
Juliete_rollin
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January 07, 2016, 01:38:27 AM
 #8

haha!! sorry but im pretty dumb..i have no clue about those things...sorry cant help you with that "random seed" thingy....i think only the admins of the site has the full knowledge about the full process... and only they can clearly explain where that thingy came from...so my best advice is to contact support on the site..one of the admins does the reply for such support request..you can ask them there..replies usually takes a day or two...but not longer, or better yet.. you can invite them to discuss it here on this thread..for only they can accurately answer your queries, so i hope you do so.

and i really dont give a rats ass about such things...i only gamble for fun...winning is just a side prize Tongue

Fair enough sir, but you should in figurative way of speaking , know where the bus goes before you enter in it. I don't say you can't have profit in rollin.io i just say that " the  system " can manipulate the output. Any way for sure other users that are more familiarized with the verification system, will have their opinion about this unverifiable seed. Have a good night/ evening / day.

regards
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January 07, 2016, 01:38:35 AM
 #9

As per My point Of View i don't think they are scam , i always win there Tongue

Juliete_rollin
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January 07, 2016, 01:47:10 AM
 #10

Maybe they just misworded that statement - do you have any proof that it's not a randomly generated seed... created by the client? As it should be?

One simple way to prove - is there a place where you can input your own client seed?

Hello sir,

If you place a bet in the site in question , you can check your client seed and server hash before you roll , what is ok , but after you roll if you check your bets, you will see a extra seed, that they use to manipulate the output according to their algorithm, what is in question here, is not what they state in their fair page, but what happen in reality.

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Juliete_rollin
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January 07, 2016, 01:53:49 AM
 #11

As per My point Of View i don't think they are scam , i always win there Tongue

Hello sir,

Using your technical speech, i have loved womans that lied to me, too. I'm talking about the verification system, if you have anything to say about that i would be glad to hear.

Regards
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January 07, 2016, 01:59:33 AM
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haha!! sorry but im pretty dumb..i have no clue about those things...sorry cant help you with that "random seed" thingy....i think only the admins of the site has the full knowledge about the full process... and only they can clearly explain where that thingy came from...so my best advice is to contact support on the site..one of the admins does the reply for such support request..you can ask them there..replies usually takes a day or two...but not longer, or better yet.. you can invite them to discuss it here on this thread..for only they can accurately answer your queries, so i hope you do so.

and i really dont give a rats ass about such things...i only gamble for fun...winning is just a side prize Tongue

Fair enough sir, but you should in figurative way of speaking , know where the bus goes before you enter in it. I don't say you can't have profit in rollin.io i just say that " the  system " can manipulate the output. Any way for sure other users that are more familiarized with the verification system, will have their opinion about this unverifiable seed. Have a good night/ evening / day.

regards

hohoho..oh well, i hope you get one of the admins to discuss it here, or at the least someone to speak in behalf of the site management.. because the only way to resolve (prove/clear) this scam accusation is if both parties (both the accuser and the accused) can openly discuss such matters in a public forum..it would be hard to resolve this issue otherwise and this scam accusation will be pretty much pointless...so please contact them as soon as possible and request that they answer your queries on this thread..good luck and have a good one Wink

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January 07, 2016, 02:00:01 AM
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 Shocked its weird did you try to contact the support?
Juliete_rollin
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January 07, 2016, 02:08:52 AM
 #14

Shocked its weird did you try to contact the support?

Hello sir,

I didn't cause i don't need support, this is not a scam accusation, this is a scam fact, if you are accustomed with other gambling sites you must know that can't exist hidden seeds, if there is, means that site manipulate the output.

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January 07, 2016, 02:29:41 AM
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Shocked its weird did you try to contact the support?

Hello sir,

I didn't cause i don't need support, this is not a scam accusation, this is a scam fact, if you are accustomed with other gambling sites you must know that can't exist hidden seeds, if there is, means that site manipulate the output.

Regards

ahhh..i would like to point out that this is still just a scam accusation..not a scam "fact" as you stated ...as you are still asking for explanations and proofs.. this will only become a scam fact if the accused fails to disprove your accusations..until such time that the accused states their defense or explanation against your accusations and it fails to satisfy logical sense..it will remain simply as a scam "accusation"... Cheesy

haahahhaha!! sorry im bored... Tongue

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January 07, 2016, 02:45:48 AM
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Sorry sir , i re-read my post to make sure and i didn't ask for proofs and explanations, i point it out the fact of a third seed is being used after the roll to manipulate the output.

Regards
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January 07, 2016, 03:26:37 AM
 #17

rollin is the best dice site and fair ...\o\o\o\O/o/o/o/
Juliete_rollin
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January 07, 2016, 03:38:33 AM
 #18

rollin is the best dice site and fair ...\o\o\o\O/o/o/o/

Hello sir,

As you must know a casino is not a monopoly game for fun or any other kind of game for fun, if you don't have any kind of knowledge to support why is fair, please abstain from support it, since money don't grow from trees and who gamble need to make sure that the casino where they are in is fair, which as you can see in rollin case, a third seed that is only  showed after you roll represent the possibility of the casino manipulate the output according to some algorithm, you should not encourage gamblers.

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January 07, 2016, 04:47:28 AM
 #19

In advance you get "server_hash" which is a combination of "server_seed + random_seed".

The result is generated by the server_seed and the client_seed (latter is generated in the browser.) You can check that the server_seed was not changed after making the bet, by verifying the hash in combination with the random_seed. They don't know your client_seed in advance so they cannot calculate the end result before you bet. This makes Rollin provably fair. There is no way for Rollin to cheat without you noticing (if you verify the hash.)




Why not just use server_seed without random_seed? I am guessing it is like an extra protection against brute-forcing the server_seed. Originally that comes from systems that don't give a server_seed but a server_roll_number (which would be easily brute-forced without extra random_seed.) But since their server_seed is long enough, I am pretty sure they could remove the random_seed indeed. However, currently the site is just as well provably fair.

Ideally they would use the "nonce-method" too, because in theory for perfect provably-fair-usage, currently you should copy hash, change client_seed, verify, etc after each bet. But technically their implementation is fine for a "per roll" implementation (correctly generates random client_seed in browser, etc.)



I BTW made a verifier for Rollin here: https://dicesites.com/rollin/verifier and an article about provably fair for those who want to learn the basics here: https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

CASlO
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January 07, 2016, 04:54:55 AM
 #20

In advance you get "server_hash" which is a combination of "server_seed + random_seed".

The result is generated by the server_seed and the client_seed (latter is generated in the browser.) You can check that the server_seed was not changed after making the bet, by verifying the hash in combination with the random_seed. They don't know your client_seed in advance so they cannot calculate the end result before you bet. This makes Rollin provably fair. There is no way for Rollin to cheat without you noticing (if you verify the hash.)




Why not just use server_seed without random_seed? I am guessing it is like an extra protection against brute-forcing the server_seed. Originally that comes from systems that don't give a server_seed but a server_roll_number (which would be easily brute-forced without extra random_seed.) But since their server_seed is long enough, I am pretty sure they could remove the random_seed indeed. However, currently the site is just as well provably fair.

Ideally they would use the "nonce-method" too, because in theory for perfect provably-fair-usage, currently you should copy hash, change client_seed, verify, etc after each bet. But technically their implementation is fine for a "per roll" implementation (correctly generates random client_seed in browser, etc.)




I BTW made a verifier for Rollin here: https://dicesites.com/rollin/verifier and an article about provably fair for those who want to learn the basics here: https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

thank you! Grin

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