[BTC-TC] BTC-Trading Pass-Through Fund (BTC-TRADING-PT) is closed

[thehun]

what's going to happen with these shares after the closure of BTC-TC and LTC-GLOBAL?

[Lohoris]

what's going to happen with these shares after the closure of BTC-TC and LTC-GLOBAL?

I guess their value drops to 0?

[thehun]

what's going to happen with these shares after the closure of BTC-TC and LTC-GLOBAL?

I guess their value drops to 0?

They shouldn't, if everything is handled correctly. If the assets of the company are liquidated and distributed accordingly I would guess the shareholders would still receive something, no?

[Rannasha]

what's going to happen with these shares after the closure of BTC-TC and LTC-GLOBAL?

I guess their value drops to 0?

They shouldn't, if everything is handled correctly. If the assets of the company are liquidated and distributed accordingly I would guess the shareholders would still receive something, no?

True, but I don't know how many assets the company has. Its main "assets" were the companies that were listed on the exchange and the trade volume they generated and that's all gone.

There may be some code and some hardware left at the end of it, but that's it.

[thehun]

what's going to happen with these shares after the closure of BTC-TC and LTC-GLOBAL?

I guess their value drops to 0?

They shouldn't, if everything is handled correctly. If the assets of the company are liquidated and distributed accordingly I would guess the shareholders would still receive something, no?

True, but I don't know how many assets the company has. Its main "assets" were the companies that were listed on the exchange and the trade volume they generated and that's all gone.

There may be some code and some hardware left at the end of it, but that's it.

What about cash? There surely must be something in the bank from all the trading fees

[Rannasha]

what's going to happen with these shares after the closure of BTC-TC and LTC-GLOBAL?

I guess their value drops to 0?

They shouldn't, if everything is handled correctly. If the assets of the company are liquidated and distributed accordingly I would guess the shareholders would still receive something, no?

True, but I don't know how many assets the company has. Its main "assets" were the companies that were listed on the exchange and the trade volume they generated and that's all gone.

There may be some code and some hardware left at the end of it, but that's it.

What about cash? There surely must be something in the bank from all the trading fees

Profits were paid out monthly as dividends. So I can't imagine there's much more than a month worth of that in the bank.

So the stock price shouldn't collapse all the way down to zero, but it will be many times less than what it traded at yesterday.

[thehun]

Profits were paid out monthly as dividends. So I can't imagine there's much more than a month worth of that in the bank.

So the stock price shouldn't collapse all the way down to zero, but it will be many times less than what it traded at yesterday.

In any case, I think burnside should have left the door open for a transfer of the business to some other manager instead of ruining his investors this way. I'm sure there are people out there willing to take over and even pay something for it.

[Lohoris]

Profits were paid out monthly as dividends. So I can't imagine there's much more than a month worth of that in the bank.

So the stock price shouldn't collapse all the way down to zero, but it will be many times less than what it traded at yesterday.

In any case, I think burnside should have left the door open for a transfer of the business to some other manager instead of ruining his investors this way. I'm sure there are people out there willing to take over and even pay something for it.

I guess that if he closes down instead of selling / handing over, it must be because the trubles are so deep he isn't allowed to do that.

[JohnGalt]

Well, it was fun ...

Due the upcoming closure of the BTC-TC exchange, this fund will also be closing. Trading will remain open until trading is halted on the exchange.

BTC-TRADING-PT holds 130 shares of LTC-GLOBAL and these share constitute 100% of its assets. The closure of the LTC-GLOBAL and BTC-TC exchanges affects the value of the LTC-GLOBAL shares, and thus the value of the fund's shares. The value of the shares of the fund will be difficult to determine until the dust settles, and it is possible that the value will be 0.

Any distribution to LTC-GLOBAL shareholders will be passed on to shareholders of the fund as soon as possible after it is received. If you have not registered a BTC address with the exchange, you must do that now. Any distributions by the fund after the exchange has closed will be made to these addresses only.

For those that have an account on LTC-GLOBAL and want to own LTC-GLOBAL shares directly, the exchange of the fund's shares for LTC-GLOBAL shares is still open. There will be no fee. 10 shares of BTC-TRADING-PT can be exchanged for 1 share of LTC-GLOBAL.

If you have any questions, feel free to send me an email or a PM.


John Galt Asset Management

[bryant.coleman]

OK.... one final doubt.

Out of the 10,000 LTC-GLOBAL shares, Burnside was owning less than 90%, which means that he had sold 1,000+ shares to others. At an average rate  of 10 BTC per share, that corresponds to 10,000 BTC. Is there any chance that this amount can be paid out as compensation to the shareholders?

[Deprived]

OK.... one final doubt.

Out of the 10,000 LTC-GLOBAL shares, Burnside was owning less than 90%, which means that he had sold 1,000+ shares to others. At an average rate  of 10 BTC per share, that corresponds to 10,000 BTC. Is there any chance that this amount can be paid out as compensation to the shareholders?

That's not what happened unfortunately.

The shares were sold, if I recall correctly, at 15 LTC each back when LTC was worth about .003 BTC.

So the 1K shares old only raised about 45 BTC for him - and BTC were only about $5 back then so it didn't actually pay for anything.

Remember the shares were sold when only LTC-Global existed, not BTC-TC, and LTC was 1/10th of what it is now vs BTC.  He hasn't benefitted from the rise in price at all - unless he sold more shares (believe he did sell a few more to get this pass-through started - but I know that due to a cockup he also bought back a bunch at 150 LTC).

[JohnGalt]

Due the upcoming closure of the BTC-TC exchange, this fund will also be closing. Trading will remain open until trading is halted on the exchange.

I need to clarify. The fund will continue to hold its assets after the exchange has closed. Any distributions to the fund will be passed on to shareholders of this fund even after trading has been halted and the exchange has been closed. However, sometime after the exchange closes on October 31, I plan to liquidate the fund's assets (if possible) and distribute the proceeds to shareholders. The exchange does have assets of value, but the value of those assets has yet to be determined.

Here are your options:

• 1. Sell your shares on BTC-TC (currently at approximately 2 LTC each) until trading is halted.
• 2. Redeem 10 shares for 1 share of LTC-GLOBAL until the exchange closes.
• 3. Wait for a disposition of the shares after the exchange closes and receive any remaining value.

Edit: As of October 8, options #1 and #2 and no longer available.


If you have any questions, feel free to send me an email or a PM.


John Galt Asset Management

[JohnGalt]

Update

In short, there is nothing new to report.

The fund still owns a number of shares of LTC-GLOBAL and we are waiting for Burnside to determine the remaining value (if any) and to make a final distribution to shareholders. When this happens, the fund will pass the final distribution along to its shareholders and will close. If it is determined that the LTC-GLOBAL shares owned by the fund have no value, the fund will simply close. If there is an opportunity to liquidate the fund's LTC-GLOBAL shares, it will be evaluated.


If you have any questions, feel free to send me an email or a PM.


John Galt Asset Management

[littleblue]

Update

In short, there is nothing new to report.

The fund still owns a number of shares of LTC-GLOBAL and we are waiting for Burnside to determine the remaining value (if any) and to make a final distribution to shareholders. When this happens, the fund will pass the final distribution along to its shareholders and will close. If it is determined that the LTC-GLOBAL shares owned by the fund have no value, the fund will simply close. If there is an opportunity to liquidate the fund's LTC-GLOBAL shares, it will be evaluated.


If you have any questions, feel free to send me an email or a PM.


John Galt Asset Management

thanks!

[burnside]

I'm willing to buy BTC-TRADING-PT shares at 0.025/ea.  This roughly reflects my 20 LTC/ea offer for direct shares.  This offer is good while the LTC/BTC rate stays in the 0.012-0.014 range.

I am not yet certain what will happen with outstanding shares that I do not buy back.  There is a small chance (since I am using personal funds to buy them back) that I will have to use these funds for defense down the road.  In other words, I may not be able to maintain the offer indefinitely.

Current assets:  (rough)
 - 2 BTC
 - 2600 LTC
 - The site code

Current liabilities:
 - Legal issues, guessing ~2 months remaining to settle?  I estimate at a cost of $40,000 in addition to everything paid to date.
 - A 504 BTC loan

I can't focus on selling the site code until I have finished getting everyone's coins and assets taken care of.  The constant rise in BTC price has worked against me.  All of the offers (offers being considered were in the 600 - 1000 BTC range) I gathered are no longer good.  I had some very interested parties, so they will likely re-submit bids, but they are going to reflect the new exchange rates.  In addition, there is much work to be done in order to package it in a clean fashion.  (IE, to strip out anything sensitive from the config files, codebase, etc, and to assemble a "package" with sql schema, bitcoind code, and apache configs that can be used to install it elsewhere)

Any proceeds from the sale of the site code will be applied in the following order:
  - to pay legal expenses
  - to repay the loan  (which was taken out to pay legal expenses)
  - finally, what is left will be distributed amongst remaining shareholders.

Hopefully that is enough information to help those involved make an educated decision.  Please let me know if there are any questions.  I am happy to answer whatever I can.

John, with your permission, I am also prepared to send this out to BTC-TRADING-PT shareholders via the site news system.

[Lohoris]

- A 504 BTC loan

I'm very surprised.
Why did you get a loan denominated in BTC? O_o

[burnside]

- A 504 BTC loan

I'm very surprised.
Why did you get a loan denominated in BTC? O_o

Several factors... it was better thought out than it sounds:

- The loan was essentially a gift from yours truly, at the time very likely never to be able to be repaid because it was expected that the company would actually need a larger loan.  Had BTC prices remained the same we would have needed another 500 BTC relatively shortly.  Instead BTC prices rose and now it's unlikely to be repaid because the BTC value has spiked.  Either way, the result is the same... debt larger than revenue because of the forced shutdown.

- It was -immediately- available.  It was needed ASAP to retain representation.  Had we not moved quickly, the orderly shutdown would not have been possible and liability would have been immense.

- Part of the company's defense is that it -had never touched- (and still hasn't) a single dollar of USD.

- Banks won't work with Bitcoin based businesses.  (At least in my neck of the woods.)  And anyone else with all the facts in hand would never have given us a loan.

Cheers.

[Lohoris]

- A 504 BTC loan

I'm very surprised.
Why did you get a loan denominated in BTC? O_o

Several factors... it was better thought out than it sounds:

- The loan was essentially a gift from yours truly, at the time very likely never to be able to be repaid because it was expected that the company would actually need a larger loan.  Had BTC prices remained the same we would have needed another 500 BTC relatively shortly.  Instead BTC prices rose and now it's unlikely to be repaid because the BTC value has spiked.  Either way, the result is the same... debt larger than revenue because of the forced shutdown.

- It was -immediately- available.  It was needed ASAP to retain representation.  Had we not moved quickly, the orderly shutdown would not have been possible and liability would have been immense.

- Part of the company's defense is that it -had never touched- (and still hasn't) a single dollar of USD.

- Banks won't work with Bitcoin based businesses.  (At least in my neck of the woods.)  And anyone else with all the facts in hand would never have given us a loan.

Cheers.

I'm very relieved this does make sense, thank you for explaining it!

[littleblue]

 how to do...

[littleblue]

what can i do for  BTC-TRADING-PT? How  do ?
thanks.