PrimeDice Is A Scam!

[dooglus]

Its like those slot machines in vegas that say similar things. One time I won 1k bucks, that means there will be over 1k in losses to players..

Actually, it's quite different than the slot machines, at least in the UK.

Those things aren't random. They are programmed to make sure that they hit their target payout percentage.

(Provably fair) dice sites *aren't*. They rely on mathematics alone to make a profit.

Just-Dice had over a billion bets, and millions of BTC wagered, but its overall profit was only 0.3%, whereas the mathematical house edge was 1%. The site did three times worse than it "should" have. You'll never find a slot machine (in a UK pub) doing that. Their manufacturers realise "variance is a bitch" and so don't allow it to happen. In effect, they are "rigged".

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[Holdaaja]

Its like those slot machines in vegas that say similar things. One time I won 1k bucks, that means there will be over 1k in losses to players..

Actually, it's quite different than the slot machines, at least in the UK.

Those things aren't random. They are programmed to make sure that they hit their target payout percentage.

(Provably fair) dice sites *aren't*. They rely on mathematics alone to make a profit.

Just-Dice had over a billion bets, and millions of BTC wagered, but its overall profit was only 0.3%, whereas the mathematical house edge was 1%. The site did three times worse than it "should" have. You'll never find a slot machine (in a UK pub) doing that. Their manufacturers realise "variance is a bitch" and so don't allow it to happen. In effect, they are "rigged".

But are those slot machines made so they can't go like 10% house edge?
With dice games housedge can go temporarily to 10% or more.

[dooglus]

But are those slot machines made so they can't go like 10% house edge?
With dice games housedge can go temporarily to 10% or more.

I don't even know if it makes sense to talk about the "house edge" when every result is deliberately manipulated.

The "house edge" is the percentage of the wagered amount that the house expects to keep, in the very long run.

You can't talk about "expectation" when everything is being manipulated.

With dice games, the house edge doesn't change - it's 1%, or whatever it is set to. Just-Dice's house edge was 1%, even though the actual profit was only 0.3%. If the game ran long enough, the actual profit would have got arbitrarily close to 1%.

Shortly before closing the site, I calculated that it would take something like 100 years for the actual profit to get over 0.99% if betting volume carried on as it had been and if results came in pretty much as expected. Of course, it would also have been possible for someone to turn up one day and lose 50k BTC in 5 minutes, putting the actual profit over 1% very quickly. Despite all that, the house edge was always 1%.

Edit: note that slot machines talk about their "RTP" (return to player) rather than their "edge". They return 93% of bets to the players. Not because of the law of large numbers, but because they make sure that's what happens.

Any chance of just-dice or doge-dice coming back?

I'm keeping my options open. I don't want to run them illegally, so would have to run them out of a different jurisdiction, and that seems like a hassle.

[Xch4ng3]

Gambling in itself is a scam, now stop gambling if you can't take a lose.

Not really a scam imho.

Gambling should be seen as a form of entertainment, not a way to make quick money. It would just be a lot easier if people applied common sense, a casino would not function as a business if it did not profit - simple as that.

[Anastasio]

Nice one buddy!

[Holdaaja]

But are those slot machines made so they can't go like 10% house edge?
With dice games housedge can go temporarily to 10% or more.

I don't even know if it makes sense to talk about the "house edge" when every result is deliberately manipulated.

The "house edge" is the percentage of the wagered amount that the house expects to keep, in the very long run.

You can't talk about "expectation" when everything is being manipulated.

With dice games, the house edge doesn't change - it's 1%, or whatever it is set to. Just-Dice's house edge was 1%, even though the actual profit was only 0.3%. If the game ran long enough, the actual profit would have got arbitrarily close to 1%.

Shortly before closing the site, I calculated that it would take something like 100 years for the actual profit to get over 0.99% if betting volume carried on as it had been and if results came in pretty much as expected. Of course, it would also have been possible for someone to turn up one day and lose 50k BTC in 5 minutes, putting the actual profit over 1% very quickly. Despite all that, the house edge was always 1%.

Edit: note that slot machines talk about their "RTP" (return to player) rather than their "edge". They return 93% of bets to the players. Not because of the law of large numbers, but because they make sure that's what happens.

Any chance of just-dice or doge-dice coming back?

I'm keeping my options open. I don't want to run them illegally, so would have to run them out of a different jurisdiction, and that seems like a hassle.

Yeah, so my question was can slot machine return 110% like dice game can?

[Joca97]

LOL OP

its normal everything is good i once seen 18 reds and heard that some guy got 25 its completly normal

i got in 10 bets on prcdice 5 under 1.5 LOL

everything is good!

[BitCoinNutJob]

prime dice has no reason to scam it will beat you via mathematics, if you want to gamble then gamble its a great site.

[bigasic]

Its like those slot machines in vegas that say similar things. One time I won 1k bucks, that means there will be over 1k in losses to players..

Actually, it's quite different than the slot machines, at least in the UK.

Those things aren't random. They are programmed to make sure that they hit their target payout percentage.

(Provably fair) dice sites *aren't*. They rely on mathematics alone to make a profit.

Just-Dice had over a billion bets, and millions of BTC wagered, but its overall profit was only 0.3%, whereas the mathematical house edge was 1%. The site did three times worse than it "should" have. You'll never find a slot machine (in a UK pub) doing that. Their manufacturers realise "variance is a bitch" and so don't allow it to happen. In effect, they are "rigged".

In Nevada, they are supposed to totally random, they do have a house percentage edge, which is pretty high. I have seen the gaming commission actually do tests on them. I don't know what they do in Europe, but in Nevada they have to answer the Nevada gaming commission.

[redHeadBlunder]

The OPs "test" is much too small in order for it to be statistically significant. There is a good chance that many people will try this and get similar results, however others will likely get opposite results.

PD has been shown to be fair. [/thread]

[Brewins]

If they going to practice selective hashing, they would make it only in big bets, so they would not give hint about that. You just got bad luck, tha happens.
 If you are paranoid, just change your hash before each significative bet, and you will be fine.

[guizai]

those are just sore loser.. why don't they ask those winner of few BTC at one go whether the site is rigged ?

[Bit2Me]

We note this.  We see that our seed was sent to the server every time that we changed. If the server have my seed, know how fuck me. This is fair? Every people can check this opening terminal of browser, in network panel, and see requests. 

[wafersticks09]

Its normal in gambling world dude. You will have more losses than your winning if you gamble simply because only few people really got a tough win. Your not the only one who experience that kind of scenario. Most gambler experience that not just in one site but in different site actually.

[ndnh]

It is called variance lol.

[lolxxxx]

Common sense of peoples now-a-days.
If a person losses some bitcoins on any gambling site like he betted small and won when he betted max he lost then the site is scam , if he keeps winning he don't care even he dont say a positive word about that site .funny

[Daneric]

I may be a newbie to this forum but I am not new to Primedice or gambling in general. When gambling, the odds so not suggest that there is an equivalent number of rolls. Every roll is completely independent from the previous one and even the next one. Therefore, when you decide to gamble you should know that you are destined to lose to the gambling house.

[ranochigo]

We note this.  We see that our seed was sent to the server every time that we changed. If the server have my seed, know how fuck me. This is fair? Every people can check this opening terminal of browser, in network panel, and see requests. 

Sending the client seed to the server does not allow the server to cheat its users. To get the result, Primedice uses a server seed, user determined client seed and a nonce. The results are hashed from the server and the results are sent back to the user. There is no practical way for users to not transfer their client seed to the server and still play the game. For it to work without sending the client seed, the server needs to send its unhashed server seed to the client. The client would need to then hash them and generate the result. Any attacker can also intercept the unhashed client seed in the process. This would then allow for users to cheat the casino.

The results cannot be changed without changing either the server seed, client seed or nonce. Hence, before anyone start gambling, they need to randomize the server seed and take note of the server hash and client seed. They can then verify their results later.