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tehcodez
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June 08, 2011, 06:01:46 AM
 #61

If network has weaknesses I rather we went through them early in development and learned how to react before whole countries adopt it. Without network's experience and ability in resisting attacks  countries unlikely will ever trust bitcoin in order to adopt it on that scale.

We don't need to react. We can prevent it altogether by distributing the network's hashing power more evenly.

You will never be able to control even distribution of hashing power, too many forces out of your reach, lots of funds out of your reach, new technology that comes next could be out of your reach. What will you do then?  when market cap will be in trillions and some unknown hashing entity took over 50% of hashing power?  Is it not a possibility in any given time in the future?

Yes, we will. In a way, we do now (just not controlling very good). There's no reason you couldn't run hashing power via a globally collaborative system.

BUT THAT'S NOT DEEPBIT RIGHT NOW. This is just the sum of all ignorance...which never changes. (Hence, why we'd like to plan for it).
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grndzero
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June 08, 2011, 06:02:03 AM
 #62


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.


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rezin777
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June 08, 2011, 06:04:55 AM
 #63

All of these threads are reactive.

These threads are proactive. An attack hasn't occurred yet. The best idea so far is the distributed mining pool.
tehcodez
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June 08, 2011, 06:10:16 AM
 #64

A block chain comparator....errr....might...work. Since Tyc's sooo noble, and he's got the coin (lol), he should bounty it. That'd give him the TRUST he needs.

TRUST....not fees....not coding....not bad logic....TRUST.

So who's gonna move first. Tyc? The cattle? Or the man waiting outside Tyc's installation?
grndzero
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June 08, 2011, 06:13:58 AM
 #65

All of these threads are reactive.

These threads are proactive. An attack hasn't occurred yet. The best idea so far is the distributed mining pool.

All 5-6 threads are reacting to the fact that deepbit has 50%+ of network power, they are a threat to the network, and talk like an attack will happen any moment. The nicest toned ones try to dissuade people from deepbit by appealing to the fee topic, but the basis is always reaction.

Even if the distributed pool mining process becomes a reality what are you going to do if every existing pool operator decides not to accept it? You said it yourself the answer is education, not technical.

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June 08, 2011, 06:15:55 AM
 #66

A block chain comparator....errr....might...work. Since Tyc's sooo noble, and he's got the coin (lol), he should bounty it. That'd give him the TRUST he needs.

TRUST....not fees....not coding....not bad logic....TRUST.

So who's gonna move first. Tyc? The cattle? Or the man waiting outside Tyc's installation?

You mean like how it is?

[BOUNTY] Bitcoin blockchain monitoring site [Tycho]

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7622.0

Thanks for playing, no parting gift for you.

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bullox
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June 08, 2011, 06:18:22 AM
 #67


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.
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June 08, 2011, 06:20:12 AM
 #68


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.

Hhhmmm .. maybe it could be deployed by multiple people across the network, or even something put into a future client so it's detected by all nodes and reported somewhere voluntarily like antivirus databases. I'm not a coder, but I can at least come up with ideas instead of criticisms.

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bullox
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June 08, 2011, 06:23:17 AM
 #69


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.

Hhhmmm .. maybe it could be deployed by multiple people across the network, or even something put into a future client so it's detected by all nodes and reported somewhere voluntarily like antivirus databases. I'm not a coder, but I can at least come up with ideas instead of criticisms.
WHat youre talking about would require literally every person running bitcoin to update their client to your specific version.  And agree on a central authority to monitor double spends.

Why don't we just avoid the matter altogether and stop mining for someone who could destroy the currency's value?  Or DDoS the hell out of his servers until he's below the 50% point.
grndzero
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June 08, 2011, 06:28:57 AM
 #70


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.

Hhhmmm .. maybe it could be deployed by multiple people across the network, or even something put into a future client so it's detected by all nodes and reported somewhere voluntarily like antivirus databases. I'm not a coder, but I can at least come up with ideas instead of criticisms.
WHat youre talking about would require literally every person running bitcoin to update their client to your specific version.  And agree on a central authority to monitor double spends.

Why don't we just avoid the matter altogether and stop mining for someone who could destroy the currency's value?  Or DDoS the hell out of his servers until he's below the 50% point.

Maybe because apparently all the posts here about this topic haven't solved the problem. Apparently it's either not persuading people or not reaching enough people.

Because that would make you a hypocrite for crying how he's doing something unethical to the network and then doing something unethical to him to get what you want. But since you don't care about ethics it doesn't matter to you, does it? Wait, if you don't have a problem with ethics then you shouldn't care what he's doing to the network. Except what he's doing isn't illegal in most nations.

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Serge
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June 08, 2011, 06:29:29 AM
 #71


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.

Hhhmmm .. maybe it could be deployed by multiple people across the network, or even something put into a future client so it's detected by all nodes and reported somewhere voluntarily like antivirus databases. I'm not a coder, but I can at least come up with ideas instead of criticisms.
WHat youre talking about would require literally every person running bitcoin to update their client to your specific version.  And agree on a central authority to monitor double spends.

Why don't we just avoid the matter altogether and stop mining for someone who could destroy the currency's value?  Or DDoS the hell out of his servers until he's below the 50% point.

Tomorrow it might not be deepbit, but some unknown force, and how will you avoid it then?
bcpokey
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June 08, 2011, 06:29:33 AM
 #72


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



There's a big difference between this time and last time. Last time tycho temporarily got 50% of the hashing power because slush went down. When it went back up, he lost those miners.

This time he has a sustained 50% interest. And it looks like it will keep growing.

You know what else has already happened too? Tycho has been hacked. That's why he instituted email locks on accounts, because a hacker got into his system and changed peoples addresses. Hacked once...

Anyway. We'll see what comes.
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June 08, 2011, 06:30:49 AM
 #73


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.

Hhhmmm .. maybe it could be deployed by multiple people across the network, or even something put into a future client so it's detected by all nodes and reported somewhere voluntarily like antivirus databases. I'm not a coder, but I can at least come up with ideas instead of criticisms.
WHat youre talking about would require literally every person running bitcoin to update their client to your specific version.  And agree on a central authority to monitor double spends.

Why don't we just avoid the matter altogether and stop mining for someone who could destroy the currency's value?  Or DDoS the hell out of his servers until he's below the 50% point.

Maybe because apparently all the posts here about this topic haven't solved the problem. Apparently it's either not persuading people or not reaching enough people.

Because that would make you a hypocrite for crying how he's doing something unethical to the network and then doing something unethical to him to get what you want. But since you don't have a problem with ethics it doesn't matter to you, does it? Wait, if you don't have a problem with ethics then you shouldn't care what he's doing to the network. Except what he's doing isn't illegal in most nations.

You seem to mistake "unethical" with protecting the network.  I dont have any more hashing power to contribute to dilute his pools strength, so the only next logical thing I can do to protect my BTC investment would be to disrupt his pool and/or his pools users.  He is a threat to the network.
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June 08, 2011, 06:33:02 AM
 #74


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.

Hhhmmm .. maybe it could be deployed by multiple people across the network, or even something put into a future client so it's detected by all nodes and reported somewhere voluntarily like antivirus databases. I'm not a coder, but I can at least come up with ideas instead of criticisms.
WHat youre talking about would require literally every person running bitcoin to update their client to your specific version.  And agree on a central authority to monitor double spends.

Why don't we just avoid the matter altogether and stop mining for someone who could destroy the currency's value?  Or DDoS the hell out of his servers until he's below the 50% point.

Maybe because apparently all the posts here about this topic haven't solved the problem. Apparently it's either not persuading people or not reaching enough people.

Because that would make you a hypocrite for crying how he's doing something unethical to the network and then doing something unethical to him to get what you want. But since you don't have a problem with ethics it doesn't matter to you, does it? Wait, if you don't have a problem with ethics then you shouldn't care what he's doing to the network. Except what he's doing isn't illegal in most nations.

So your saying you wouldn't do anything to prevent the network from being compromised, even if it is unethical/illegal? Your cash?

If I helped you in some way, and you feel obligated to do so, you can tip me some coin!
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grndzero
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June 08, 2011, 06:33:41 AM
 #75


All of these threads are reactive. Every single one of them, every time This is the second time deepbit has gone over 50%. Nothing was accomplished after the first time. [Tyco]'s thread about coding a an attack detector barely got any interest. The best idea I've seen so far is an ad campaign to try to get users to go to other pools.

If people think this is really a big problem and [Tyco] is such a huge threat then come up with some realistic ideas about how to solve it.

1) Inform users of the problem and try to get them to distribute themselves. Hint: You're going to have to reach them outside of here since a good number of them will probably never come here. You can't make users leave either. It is their choice where they mine.

2) Put some technical skill into getting a block chain monitor working so that people will know if/when something happens instead of being reactive.



Because tycho knows an attack detector is impossible.  Forked chains are simply abandoned by those who discover them, they are not reported anywhere where we could analyze if they are being utilized to create double spends.

Hhhmmm .. maybe it could be deployed by multiple people across the network, or even something put into a future client so it's detected by all nodes and reported somewhere voluntarily like antivirus databases. I'm not a coder, but I can at least come up with ideas instead of criticisms.
WHat youre talking about would require literally every person running bitcoin to update their client to your specific version.  And agree on a central authority to monitor double spends.

Why don't we just avoid the matter altogether and stop mining for someone who could destroy the currency's value?  Or DDoS the hell out of his servers until he's below the 50% point.

Maybe because apparently all the posts here about this topic haven't solved the problem. Apparently it's either not persuading people or not reaching enough people.

Because that would make you a hypocrite for crying how he's doing something unethical to the network and then doing something unethical to him to get what you want. But since you don't have a problem with ethics it doesn't matter to you, does it? Wait, if you don't have a problem with ethics then you shouldn't care what he's doing to the network. Except what he's doing isn't illegal in most nations.

You seem to mistake "unethical" with protecting the network.  I dont have any more hashing power to contribute to dilute his pools strength, so the only next logical thing I can do to protect my BTC investment would be to disrupt his pool and/or his pools users.  He is a threat to the network.

Yeah, you gave yourself away there.

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[Tycho]
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June 08, 2011, 06:34:29 AM
 #76

You know what else has already happened too? Tycho has been hacked. That's why he instituted email locks on accounts, because a hacker got into his system and changed peoples addresses. Hacked once...
Please, don't tell about what you don't know.
Most (~14) victims of that attack were using same passwords on deepbit and another pool that got hacked, that's how the attacker got them. Also they were using same passwords for mining and main account.

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
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June 08, 2011, 06:36:07 AM
 #77

You know what else has already happened too? Tycho has been hacked. That's why he instituted email locks on accounts, because a hacker got into his system and changed peoples addresses. Hacked once...
Please, don't tell about what you don't know.
Most (~14) victims of that attack were using same passwords on deepbit and another pool that got hacked, that's how the attacker got them. Also they were using same passwords for mining and main account.

Hey [Tyco] what's the [Bounty] on the Block Chain Monitor?

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June 08, 2011, 06:37:18 AM
 #78

You know what else has already happened too? Tycho has been hacked. That's why he instituted email locks on accounts, because a hacker got into his system and changed peoples addresses. Hacked once...
Please, don't tell about what you don't know.
Most (~14) victims of that attack were using same passwords on deepbit and another pool that got hacked, that's how the attacker got them. Also they were using same passwords for mining and main account.
Hey [Tycho] what's the [Bounty] on the Block Chain Monitor?
As it says in the forum thread, my part and those two who added their messages.

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
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June 08, 2011, 06:41:12 AM
 #79

You know what else has already happened too? Tycho has been hacked. That's why he instituted email locks on accounts, because a hacker got into his system and changed peoples addresses. Hacked once...
Please, don't tell about what you don't know.
Most (~14) victims of that attack were using same passwords on deepbit and another pool that got hacked, that's how the attacker got them. Also they were using same passwords for mining and main account.
Hey [Tycho] what's the [Bounty] on the Block Chain Monitor?
As it says in the forum thread, my part and those two who added their messages.

This thread? http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7622.0 Where the bounty is 60 BTC, currently equaling over US$1500.

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June 08, 2011, 06:44:29 AM
 #80

You know what else has already happened too? Tycho has been hacked. That's why he instituted email locks on accounts, because a hacker got into his system and changed peoples addresses. Hacked once...
Please, don't tell about what you don't know.
Most (~14) victims of that attack were using same passwords on deepbit and another pool that got hacked, that's how the attacker got them. Also they were using same passwords for mining and main account.
Hey [Tycho] what's the [Bounty] on the Block Chain Monitor?
As it says in the forum thread, my part and those two who added their messages.
It's just a strawman, and Tycho knows it.

There is no technical way to find orphaned block chains without everyone running bitcoind to update their software to a specific version that would report orphaned blocks to a central authority.  And the authority would need to be agreed upon.  The client, as it stands, simply abandons them.
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