Issue with Vod

[Gladimor]

Hi everyone,

I have an issue with Vod accusing me to have run a ponzi, and leaving me negative feedback that states so.

I have recently shut down my HYIP, Delta Investments, after 4 months of operation. I decided to close down for personal reasons, and on that last day, all investors had their money reimbursed as well as with any returns. Around 19 BTC was given back that day (last week).

I believe that makes Delta Investments the first HYIP to have ever successfully ended in that manner.

I messaged him regarding my decision (twice, actually). He hasn't bothered to respond, but however changed the feedback from "Running a ponzi" to another negative "Ran a ponzi that failed".

I have big issues with flat accusations that my HYIP was a ponzi. I provided sufficient evidence of actual trading activity on how I managed to provide returns to my investors (Poloniex trading analysis), throughout the 4 months. If Delta Investments WAS a ponzi, there wouldn't have been enough BTC to cover paying back ALL investors at once. As everyone should know, a ponzi takes the form of a pyramid scheme, and old investors are paid returns of newer investors. Vod should at least know that, considering the magnitude of feedback he has left for hundreds of users.

You can find my formal post on closing down Delta Investments here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236976.msg13491575#msg13491575

I don't like having a false remark such as "ran a ponzi that failed" to taint my reputation on this forum. Vod is clearly taking a stance that somewhat abuses the trust system right now, bullying users that don't have much trust.

[1713978092]

1713978092

[1713978092]

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[Quickseller]

Unfortunately there is really not anything that will be done. Vod is someone that pretty rarely fully understands situations when he leaves negative trust (unless it is something obvious like a new user asking for a no-collateral loan), and fairly rarely changes his mind even when he previously had an incomplete set of information.

Vod is on dooglus's trust list and you can ask dooglus to remove Vod from his trust list, however being a scammer himself, I would highly doubt that dooglus will listen to any kind of reason, as dooglus has a history of ignoring reasonable requests regarding his trust list.

[Vod]

So let's say I go and rob the local 7-11.

After completing my robbery, I realize I didn't get as much money as I thought I would.  Certainly not enough to be on the run.

So I return all the cash to 7-11 and call no harm done.  I ask people to forget it even happened.

Is that the way society should work?  Your ponzi failed to gain traction so you shut it down. 

[Quickseller]

So let's say I go and rob the local 7-11.

After completing my robbery, I realize I didn't get as much money as I thought I would.  Certainly not enough to be on the run.

So I return all the cash to 7-11 and call no harm done.  I ask people to forget it even happened.

Is that the way society should work?  Your ponzi failed to gain traction so you shut it down. 

I believe that he actually promised his investors a certain return and subsequently gave his investors such return. At least this is my understanding of the situation.

I also understand that the OP provided evidence of some of his profitable trades that allowed him to pay ponzi-like returns.

Obviously such returns are not sustainable forever, but then again the OP did not promise to pay such returns forever.

[Gladimor]

So let's say I go and rob the local 7-11.

After completing my robbery, I realize I didn't get as much money as I thought I would.  Certainly not enough to be on the run.

So I return all the cash to 7-11 and call no harm done.  I ask people to forget it even happened.

Is that the way society should work?  Your ponzi failed to gain traction so you shut it down. 

If this was a ponzi in the first place, I wouldn't have bothered to pay anyone back. I would've kept the 19 BTC in active deposits.

[Vod]

So let's say I go and rob the local 7-11.

After completing my robbery, I realize I didn't get as much money as I thought I would.  Certainly not enough to be on the run.

So I return all the cash to 7-11 and call no harm done.  I ask people to forget it even happened.

Is that the way society should work?  Your ponzi failed to gain traction so you shut it down. 

If this was a ponzi in the first place, I wouldn't have bothered to pay anyone back. I would've kept the 19 BTC in active deposits.

Unless you felt 19btc wasn't enough reward to be "on the run", as in the story.

[Gladimor]

So let's say I go and rob the local 7-11.

After completing my robbery, I realize I didn't get as much money as I thought I would.  Certainly not enough to be on the run.

So I return all the cash to 7-11 and call no harm done.  I ask people to forget it even happened.

Is that the way society should work?  Your ponzi failed to gain traction so you shut it down.  

If this was a ponzi in the first place, I wouldn't have bothered to pay anyone back. I would've kept the 19 BTC in active deposits.

Unless you felt 19btc wasn't enough reward to be "on the run", as in the story.

You can't randomly assume that the sum of 19 BTC theoretically isn't "enough for me", because my intentions from the start were true and legitimate.

You also can't relate a HYIP to a store robbery. Once a robber commits the crime, the wrong has been done just by the action of stealing. Returning what he stole just is a means to clear his conscience.
In a HYIP, the main act isn't stealing. The main act is providing a means for people to receive a return through investment. Returning people's deposits is part of the reason of why people invested in the first place. It is part of the deal- part of the agreement when an investor deposits money. This should be common practice and not viewed as absurd that a HYIP operator returns investors money after some time of operation. Unfortunately, so many scams have occurred that it has twisted the views of many individuals into thinking that returning investor deposits basically seems impossible.

[EcuaMobi]

So let's say I go and rob the local 7-11.

After completing my robbery, I realize I didn't get as much money as I thought I would.  Certainly not enough to be on the run.

So I return all the cash to 7-11 and call no harm done.  I ask people to forget it even happened.

Is that the way society should work?  Your ponzi failed to gain traction so you shut it down.  

If this was a ponzi in the first place, I wouldn't have bothered to pay anyone back. I would've kept the 19 BTC in active deposits.

Unless you felt 19btc wasn't enough reward to be "on the run", as in the story.

Is his personal information public? If it's not then of course 19 BTC (if that's the real amount he was holding)  would be enough to run away for a scammer. Any amount worth more than his account would.

If he had the worst intentions he could have kept those 19 BTC, used a small part of that to buy a hero/legendary account and try again. Even if he had intentions to scam at the beginning (that we'll never know) I think the fact he gave the money back should be rewarded somehow. Replacing that negative by a neutral would be a good way.

In that odd example you used the fact the robber's identity is known or not would be a very important point. If the robber got just a little money but he's completely anonymous then he could just keep that little money and try again later if he's a criminal. If he gives the little money back (while being anonymous) then I would think he's really repented. And that example implies he intended to steal from the beginning which we don't know here.

If his personal information is public then that would be a strong reason to give the money back even if he had bad intentions. Anyone let me know if that's the case. That would invalidate my point but I still wouldn't leave a negative 

[tmfp]

I made my feelings clear with the qualified positive trust that I left for Gladimor after actually reading his trading proposal and approach. I know my trust has no weight but I felt it is important to make the point that knee jerk condemning every single investment scheme on here as a scam becomes counter productive in the end.
I trade derivatives irl and know that the returns that Delta/Gladimor offered are achievable by a trader who understands his market and risk/reward.

The poor joke here is that Vod was 'dared' to leave him negative trust by someone that he had already red tagged. I'd bet, however, that Vod is unlikely to remove the rating because that would mean admitting that not every scheme offering high returns (and unfortunately describing itself as a HYIP, with the negative connotations that that, quite rightly, holds) is a ponzi or a scam.

Summary:
Gladimor outlined a trading scheme, took investors money, provided the projected profits and closed the scheme owing no-one anything after giving notice that he would be doing that.
He doesn't deserve to carry negative trust for that indefinitely and I hope Vod will reconsider.

Vod is on dooglus's trust list and you can ask dooglus to remove Vod from his trust list, however being a scammer himself, I would highly doubt that dooglus will listen to any kind of reason, as dooglus has a history of ignoring reasonable requests regarding his trust list.

Give it up, you're like a tape loop.

[Vod]

In Canada anyway, the crime is committed once you have the intent to steal.  You don't need to walk out of the store, or even past the cash register, to commit shoplifting.

You're not a stupid guy.  You knew when you started that eventually you would need to steal from some people - your scam could not run forever.  After the crime had been committed you had a change of heart and decided to return all that you had stolen.

If you have such a moral issue with having the word "ponzi" attached to your account, you shouldn't have started one in the first place.  It's not something the community should forget about.  At your request I was nice enough to indicate you are no longer running the scam.  Everything in the trust is fact and not opinion, so it is certainly not trust abuse.

[Gladimor]

In Canada anyway, the crime is committed once you have the intent to steal.  You don't need to walk out of the store, or even past the cash register, to commit shoplifting.

You're not a stupid guy.  You knew when you started that eventually you would need to steal from some people - your scam could not run forever.  After the crime had been committed you had a change of heart and decided to return all that you had stolen.

If you have such a moral issue with having the word "ponzi" attached to your account, you shouldn't have started one in the first place.  It's not something the community should forget about.  At your request I was nice enough to indicate you are no longer running the scam.  Everything in the trust is fact and not opinion, so it is certainly not trust abuse.

And another issue arises when you assume that I had an intent to steal. That is just another assumption blindly made to back your argument.

I can easily assume many things of you, as well. I can assume that you are leaving negative feedback for all users except for a couple of HYIP operators you have decided to work with. I can assume that you are trying to eliminate all competition for HYIPs that have paid you to be left alone. I can assume many things of you just as you can of me. Issues arise when there is no evidence backing those accusations. In Canada, we also have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that dictate an individual is "innocent until proven guilty".

[Vod]

You had no issues for months with the feedback when it said you were "running a ponzi".  Only once you took it down did you harass me to remove the feeedback.

You promised up to 25% weekly return on investments.  If you can offer that in your ponzi, AND take home 50% on top of that, why the hell are you here playing with pennies?  Go become the richest man in the world.

The bolded part above is all I need to prove you were running a ponzi, and I know the community would not want it forgotten.  The trust is how I feel about you, and is not abuse.  When you get some proof that I'be being paid to "look the other way", post the negative feedback about me. 

In Canada's eyes - you are still innocent until proven guilty.  In mine, you were clearly scamming.

[everaja]

Vod is someone that pretty rarely fully understands situations when he leaves negative trust (unless it is something obvious like a new user asking for a no-collateral loan), and fairly rarely changes his mind even when he previously had an incomplete set of information.

@OP i am sure You can Negotiate with VOD , how much i know all the bitcoin users are not over bitcointalk.org , and if you close the investment and return the money to investors there is no guarantee that you have returned to all users , may be there will be someone who have not got benefit from your investment after investing.(as in the case of ponzi , last investor looses).
But i really appreciate you for returning the 19 BTC.

Now talking to another Guy , @QS , you yourself don't understand the things , maybe i think you got no job like mexxer-2(saurav) , Sitting over forum and poping then and now to earn some bucks , even i believe you are owner of chalks account , i wonder how can soneone sell me account and blow my cover.
Vod understands the full situation and it is his wish to put or remove the feedback , @OP you need to negotiate to VOD before talking things to public, i am pretty sure VOD is not a bitch like QS , who blocks you on his PM.

Vod is on dooglus's trust list and you can ask dooglus to remove Vod from his trust list, however being a scammer himself, I would highly doubt that dooglus will listen to any kind of reason, as dooglus has a history of ignoring reasonable requests regarding his trust list.

Here you see the jealous of a bitch , who wants to get fucked by another dog.(satire)
Vod deserve to be kept in DT  and he is in!
I have a job , i need to go , meanwhile the unemployed guys can keep on bitching around.

[Gladimor]

You had no issues for months with the feedback when it said you were "running a ponzi".  Only once you took it down did you harass me to remove the feeedback.

You promised up to 25% weekly return on investments.  If you can offer that in your ponzi, AND take home 50% on top of that, why the hell are you here playing with pennies?  Go become the richest man in the world.

The bolded part above is all I need to prove you were running a ponzi, and I know the community would not want it forgotten.  The trust is how I feel about you, and is not abuse.  When you get some proof that I'be being paid to "look the other way", post the negative feedback about me.  

In Canada's eyes - you are still innocent until proven guilty.  In mine, you were clearly scamming.

I asked you to remove the negative feedback twice while my HYIP was running. You responded to the first message, but ignored the second one.

I was able to achieve returns of 10-25% weekly mainly through Poloniex margin trading, with a side of mining newly launched altcoins and selling them once they got listed on exchanges. Why am I not the richest person in the world and why am I playing with pennies? It's because I don't have the capital.

You don't have evidence that Delta Investments was a ponzi. However, I have evidence that proves that Delta Investments was a legitimate operation that offered returns based on actual trading activity. If you take a look at the original post and scroll down, you'll see various screenshots of Poloniex trading analysis.

And only once did investors get a 25% return in a week, and that was when I made over 26 BTC on FACTOM- over 19 BTC from Poloniex trading, and the other 7 BTC was from arbitrage between Polo and the chinese exchange YuanBaohui.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

In Canada anyway, the crime is committed once you have the intent to steal.  You don't need to walk out of the store, or even past the cash register, to commit shoplifting.

You're not a stupid guy.  You knew when you started that eventually you would need to steal from some people - your scam could not run forever.  After the crime had been committed you had a change of heart and decided to return all that you had stolen.

If you have such a moral issue with having the word "ponzi" attached to your account, you shouldn't have started one in the first place.  It's not something the community should forget about.  At your request I was nice enough to indicate you are no longer running the scam.  Everything in the trust is fact and not opinion, so it is certainly not trust abuse.

And another issue arises when you assume that I had an intent to steal. That is just another assumption blindly made to back your argument.

I can easily assume many things of you, as well. I can assume that you are leaving negative feedback for all users except for a couple of HYIP operators you have decided to work with. I can assume that you are trying to eliminate all competition for HYIPs that have paid you to be left alone. I can assume many things of you just as you can of me. Issues arise when there is no evidence backing those accusations. In Canada, we also have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that dictate an individual is "innocent until proven guilty".

Dude, if you started up anything called a "HYIP" on the section of bitcointalk that deals with such beasts, it is absolutely reasonable to make the assumption that you're going to scam.  Get over it.  Vod is right way more than he's wrong and he's probably right in this case.

[Mickeyb]

Dude, if you started up anything called a "HYIP" on the section of bitcointalk that deals with such beasts, it is absolutely reasonable to make the assumption that you're going to scam.  Get over it.  Vod is right way more than he's wrong and he's probably right in this case.

Considering the number of trusted people backing the OP, I'd say otherwise

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Dude, if you started up anything called a "HYIP" on the section of bitcointalk that deals with such beasts, it is absolutely reasonable to make the assumption that you're going to scam.  Get over it.  Vod is right way more than he's wrong and he's probably right in this case.

Considering the number of trusted people backing the OP, I'd say otherwise

Like who, quickseller?

You're on my ignore list for a reason.  Should've just kept on ignoring you...

[Mickeyb]

Like who, quickseller?

I think the fact he gave the money back should be rewarded somehow. Replacing that negative by a neutral would be a good way.

I made my feelings clear with the qualified positive trust that I left for Gladimor after actually reading his trading proposal and approach. I know my trust has no weight but I felt it is important to make the point that knee jerk condemning every single investment scheme on here as a scam becomes counter productive in the end.

Vod is backed by himself and who again?

You're on my ignore list for a reason.  Should've just kept on ignoring you...

Pfft, we all know you don't have a ignore list. You reply to as many posts as you can for sig payments, at least I accept I do post for signature payments.

[SavellM]

Vod strikes again...
Seriously this guy... Should have stayed gone!

Give a kid power and he starts wars everywhere be goes.
We should get together and start a petition to remove him. I bet it will get 100's of signatures in the first day.

He just *assumes* everyone is out to get rich. Even when you pay back loans and prove it he doesn't care.

He is A grade a troll and unfortunately been given power, which he abuses.
He is single handedly the most frustrating kid I've ever come across.

I just cannot write how much disgust I have for him...

Surely if you look at all the dedicated post about him abusing his power, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!

It's funny I stopped coming to this site because of him, first day back and this is the first thing I see. So bloody sad.
The first page in reputation has vods name in 5 dedicated posts.
@cyrus you have to start to see a link at some bloody point

[bobobobobo]

Remove Vod,The Trust abuser,The Extortionist.