eligius reward system misleading?

[Nite69]

What? Do I need to mine my coins twice in eligius? Let's me tell more; I started to mine at eligius, noticed it gives quite approximate 0.006 btC / day for my single lousy 5770 at 200 MH/S. This is quite much what is expected (could be a slightly more, thought).

However, then I decided to try to mine some ppcoins for a while. Mined a few days, returned to Eligius.. and noticed that my saldo is not increasing regardless of the hashrate...

See this:
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1K9jjmJb7pc8T4PVgEQCnSsDCLVbwKzKYK

I'm going to quit at eligius. And never get back. Just don't like the idea I'm giving 0.1 coins to a stealing site.
Looks like WOT rating (see https://www.mywot.com/)  is just correct for that site.

[organofcorti]

What? Do I need to mine my coins twice in eligius? Let's me tell more; I started to mine at eligius, noticed it gives quite approximate 0.006 btC / day for my single lousy 5770 at 200 MH/S. This is quite much what is expected (could be a slightly more, thought).

However, then I decided to try to mine some ppcoins for a while. Mined a few days, returned to Eligius.. and noticed that my saldo is not increasing regardless of the hashrate...

See this:
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1K9jjmJb7pc8T4PVgEQCnSsDCLVbwKzKYK

I'm going to quit at eligius. And never get back. Just don't like the idea I'm giving 0.1 coins to a stealing site.
Looks like WOT rating (see https://www.mywot.com/)  is just correct for that site.

It would be best if you understood a reward system before accusing a pool of scamming. This is not unexpected behaviour for this pool when they have longer than average rounds (more shares per round).

You don't have to like a reward method, but at least go to the trouble of understanding it first.

[Nite69]

What everyone can see from the grap I posted, I mined several hours and there no were not a single change in the numbers or in the curve. So I mined without getting any reward from it. I consider that stealing my hash power, whatever the share strategy is. I could use the same hashing power to some other pool.

Edit: Ok, I changed the title from 'cheating' to 'misleading'

[Graet]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=23768.msg1118133#msg1118133
the pool operator advised new miners not to join until new reward system implemented

I know it is hard in some forum threads to find all the news - I noticed it a while back

Best of luck on your mining endeavours

[thph]

Unpaid Balance   Extra Credit
As of last block*:   0.06176404 BTC   1.28906742 BTC
Estimated Change:   -0.06176404 BTC   -1.28906742 BTC
Estimated Total:   0.00000000 BTC   0.00000000 BTC
3 hour average hashrate: 2,392.06 MH/s

this is what i get after 24 hours mining with 3,2 MH/s
One of the 2 blocks we found in that time is still confirmed

So did i made 1,28 BTC or not ?
Sorry but because of my bad english i absolutly dont understand the reward changing procedure.
Thanks for the answers !

[Gatorhex]

It looks like it's back up and running correctly now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6wok7g7do

I have backup pools that I move my miners to if things look like they've gone wrong.

Their payment system is explained here http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Payment_Queue

You go into the payout queue after BTC 0.67 so maybe not a good choice for someone with low MH/s

A pool like 50BTC.com, that pays out regular instant ammounts greater than BTC 0.01 every night, might be better for you.

[Nite69]

Yes, that looks better :-) I'll give it a try..

[JoelKatz]

What everyone can see from the grap I posted, I mined several hours and there no were not a single change in the numbers or in the curve. So I mined without getting any reward from it. I consider that stealing my hash power, whatever the share strategy is. I could use the same hashing power to some other pool.

Edit: Ok, I changed the title from 'cheating' to 'misleading'

"I gambled $50 at the slot machines at the casino and came back with $0. I spent money without getting any reward for it. I consider that stealing my money. Edit: Okay, it's misleading in some way."

Can you state what it was that mislead you? Or did you just not understand how it worked and not bother to try to figure it out?

[Nite69]

What everyone can see from the grap I posted, I mined several hours and there no were not a single change in the numbers or in the curve. So I mined without getting any reward from it. I consider that stealing my hash power, whatever the share strategy is. I could use the same hashing power to some other pool.

Edit: Ok, I changed the title from 'cheating' to 'misleading'

"I gambled $50 at the slot machines at the casino and came back with $0. I spent money without getting any reward for it. I consider that stealing my money. Edit: Okay, it's misleading in some way."

Can you state what it was that mislead you? Or did you just not understand how it worked and not bother to try to figure it out?

Between 11oct and 12oct, I got no reward, according to the numbers and curve.

But now it's been fixed, I also displays reward during that time, and I also get reward for ongoing work.

[gigica viteazu`]

eligius is kind of slow in this regard, but i had no problem with the payments

[makomk]

It would be best if you understood a reward system before accusing a pool of scamming. This is not unexpected behaviour for this pool when they have longer than average rounds (more shares per round).

To be honest the reward method itself is almost a scam at this point. The payment scheme used is 100% guaranteed to eventually build up a backlog big enough to put the pool out of business, and this was pointed out to Luke Jr ages ago but he didn't care. What probably pushes it over the line into "actual scamming" is that on at least a couple of occasions the pool built up a substantial surplus, and rather than taking the chance to switch to a payment scheme that wasn't guaranteed to screw over his miners Luke Jr pocketed the surplus and carried on going, speeding up the rate at which the pool failed and in effect adding a hidden fee to his "zero fee" pool.

[organofcorti]

It would be best if you understood a reward system before accusing a pool of scamming. This is not unexpected behaviour for this pool when they have longer than average rounds (more shares per round).

To be honest the reward method itself is almost a scam at this point. The payment scheme used is 100% guaranteed to eventually build up a backlog big enough to put the pool out of business, and this was pointed out to Luke Jr ages ago but he didn't care.

I don't disagree: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2012/04/32-risks-of-smpps.html

But this point has been reiterated many times. A few quick forum searches - and even reading eligius' own website - would have told you to at least expect delays in payment, an ARS-like failure.

What probably pushes it over the line into "actual scamming" is that on at least a couple of occasions the pool built up a substantial surplus, and rather than taking the chance to switch to a payment scheme that wasn't guaranteed to screw over his miners Luke Jr pocketed the surplus and carried on going, speeding up the rate at which the pool failed and in effect adding a hidden fee to his "zero fee" pool.

I'm not so sure about that. Do you have proof or is this just a surmise based on the way Luke-Jr does his very difficult to follow accounting?

[Luke-Jr]

It would be best if you understood a reward system before accusing a pool of scamming. This is not unexpected behaviour for this pool when they have longer than average rounds (more shares per round).

To be honest the reward method itself is almost a scam at this point. The payment scheme used is 100% guaranteed to eventually build up a backlog big enough to put the pool out of business, and this was pointed out to Luke Jr ages ago but he didn't care. What probably pushes it over the line into "actual scamming" is that on at least a couple of occasions the pool built up a substantial surplus, and rather than taking the chance to switch to a payment scheme that wasn't guaranteed to screw over his miners Luke Jr pocketed the surplus and carried on going, speeding up the rate at which the pool failed and in effect adding a hidden fee to his "zero fee" pool.

This is slander. I never "pocketed" anything, it was all used to pay miners when the pool was unlucky in the months following.
If it weren't for the halving during an unlucky dip, the SMPPS would have stayed viable for the long run.