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Author Topic: Blocks are full.  (Read 14683 times)
Lauda
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March 03, 2016, 07:10:56 AM
 #301

I do not think that a hard fork can hurt bitcoin,however a hard fork is required,vulnerabilities like ?
Hard Forks can't be done often for various reasons, therefore we should use one to fix things that are over-due. The HF that Classic is proposed: 1) Does not fix anything (adds sigops limitation that will have to be remove anyhow); 2) Is fundamentally flawed in its design (grace period, consensus threshold).

there is something about network propagation rate or something like that and about orphan blocks.

I`m not an expert on this, but there are vulnerabilities.
Reading this might be useful: Bitcoin vulnerabilities; Hard fork wishlist.


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March 03, 2016, 07:40:45 AM
 #302

A larger blocksize will make a spam attack more expensive, no?

Bingo... a 2MB block is significantly more expensive to fill.  Lets assume the average block size is about ~.2/3 filled a spammer only has to fill ~1/3MB.  If the block is 2MB that requires 4x the money.  Does it stop it no...but it makes it alot harder.

this assuming that the block will not be filled completely in the future, basically they are waiting for the right time to have the hard fork for 2mb

for the right time i mean when in theory the 2mb increase is full already when adopted...this will only lead to an endless cycle where we always need an increase....
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March 03, 2016, 08:20:16 AM
 #303

I don't think that this is spam. Growth is rather linear during last 60 days

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=60days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=7&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Mempool grows suddenly, when transactions don't go trough. It gives an impression of a sudden increase, but to my understanding it is just that when amount of transactions rises above certain treshold, congestion starts and when congestion starts, mempool jumps suddenly allthough it is just a symptom of linear growth achieving congestion treshold.

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March 03, 2016, 08:22:54 AM
 #304

Is the Bitcoin network under attack guys? I am reading on another site that we must be careful of double-spending and due to this getting double charged.
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March 03, 2016, 08:34:21 AM
 #305

^If you wait confirmations, there is no problem. But it takes longer confirmations to come.
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March 03, 2016, 08:36:54 AM
 #306

It was an attack. What you've linked shows the number of transactions that went through (on a particular day). The attacker was creating a lot of transactions in the 1-10 satoshis per byte range. This filled up the mempool.

Is the Bitcoin network under attack guys?
It was 2 days ago. It seems to have stopped.

But it takes longer confirmations to come.
If you included the recommended fee which was 60 satoshis/byte (still is), it doesn't.


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March 03, 2016, 08:48:24 AM
 #307

It was an attack. What you've linked shows the number of transactions that went through (on a particular day). The attacker was creating a lot of transactions in the 1-10 satoshis per byte range. This filled up the mempool.

  

Ok. My reasoning had a fault. I didn't realize, that the info which I linked only showed those transactions, that went trough.

Is there any chart showing total number of new transctions (both confirmed and unconfirmed)  per day?
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March 03, 2016, 09:01:07 AM
 #308

Ok. My reasoning had a fault. I didn't realize, that the info which I linked only showed those transactions, that went trough.

Is there any chart showing total number of new transctions (both confirmed and unconfirmed)  per day?
Combining this chart: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions with this daily chart should give you somewhat of a representation of the attack: cointape.com
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March 03, 2016, 09:22:54 AM
 #309

Is there any chart showing total number of new transctions (both confirmed and unconfirmed)  per day?
There are various places where you can view the number of unconfirmed transactions (I don't think you can get an accurate number for the total amount per day):
Tradeblock - ~25k unconfirmed transactions right now.
Blockchain.info - ~21k unconfirmed transactions right now.
BitcoinFees21 - Useful for viewing what kind of fees were included (in addition to the recommended fee).


You can use these three to analyze the situation and possibly determine if an attack is taking place.


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March 03, 2016, 09:35:17 AM
 #310

Membool dropped to zero less than hour ago today suddenly? Is that a glitch in the data?

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/

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March 03, 2016, 10:03:08 AM
 #311

Is there any chart showing total number of new transctions (both confirmed and unconfirmed)  per day?
There are various places where you can view the number of unconfirmed transactions (I don't think you can get an accurate number for the total amount per day):
Tradeblock - ~25k unconfirmed transactions right now.
Blockchain.info - ~21k unconfirmed transactions right now.
BitcoinFees21 - Useful for viewing what kind of fees were included (in addition to the recommended fee).


You can use these three to analyze the situation and possibly determine if an attack is taking place.
Membool dropped to zero less than hour ago today suddenly? Is that a glitch in the data?

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/



Yes now its 100% that it was an attack, why would just drop suddently. This is not a conspiracy theory anymore. It's a real conspiracy, and some evil people conspired against bitcoin to try to slow it down.

But looks like they ran out of money.

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March 03, 2016, 10:06:37 AM
 #312

Membool dropped to zero less than hour ago today suddenly? Is that a glitch in the data?

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/



My guess it that it is a glitch. They could have rebooted their node.

No two nodes have identical mempools. I filter out low-fee and zero-fee transactions on my node and yet my (v0.12.0 capped) mempool was always full.
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March 03, 2016, 10:44:47 AM
 #313

Is there any chart showing total number of new transctions (both confirmed and unconfirmed)  per day?
There are various places where you can view the number of unconfirmed transactions (I don't think you can get an accurate number for the total amount per day):
Tradeblock - ~25k unconfirmed transactions right now.
Blockchain.info - ~21k unconfirmed transactions right now.
BitcoinFees21 - Useful for viewing what kind of fees were included (in addition to the recommended fee).


You can use these three to analyze the situation and possibly determine if an attack is taking place.

That's are some handy sites. Never had some tools to verify a actual hack was happening.
BTW
20290 Unconfirmed Transactions Live updating list of new bitcoin transactions

Is a lot man

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March 03, 2016, 10:48:17 AM
 #314

Is there any chart showing total number of new transctions (both confirmed and unconfirmed)  per day?
There are various places where you can view the number of unconfirmed transactions (I don't think you can get an accurate number for the total amount per day):
Tradeblock - ~25k unconfirmed transactions right now.
Blockchain.info - ~21k unconfirmed transactions right now.
BitcoinFees21 - Useful for viewing what kind of fees were included (in addition to the recommended fee).


You can use these three to analyze the situation and possibly determine if an attack is taking place.

That's are some handy sites. Never had some tools to verify a actual hack was happening.
BTW
20290 Unconfirmed Transactions Live updating list of new bitcoin transactions

Is a lot man



yes and if pools like antpool filled up their blocks it would take out a huge chunk of those..
add this site to your list
http://bitblk.com/bitcoin/pool/AntPool/
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March 03, 2016, 10:52:51 AM
 #315

arlene05973


........rallying and block are full.....

Pls, i'm sorry asking this for the second time. how does this affect the seller's or a buyer's?


Thanks

It affects them so that bitcoin transactions with a standard fee might not get a confirmation for hours or even days.

So they would need to know about it to adjust the fee, they would need to use a wallet that does adjust the fee automatically or they would need to wait.

So the downside is that they pay more, not much more at the current time, or they would have a deal that can draw over a long time because no confirmation happens.



RealBitcoin



Correct. Didn't you notice the shills saying that we need a 2 MB block size limit and that people should run Classic or BU?


Hard to tell who is shill and who is not on this forum, and on reddit.

But I saw real shills on btc classic youtube videos, and +30 upvotes on shill coments when the whole video had less than 100 likes.

Whoever runs this shill campaign has planned it very well, because they are promoting it on every front.

I think it does not really need a shill army for that to happen. The only thing needed would be fans of he idea and a community that video was posted in right after release. For sure many of the viewers would upvote the vide.

Doesn't really mean that they have to be paid supporters or sockpuppet accounts. Of course it is possible that they are.

Well, I'm pretty sick of this political war. Emotions are heated up so much often that argumenting in a civilized manner becomes hard and tiring.






@SebastianJu, thanks for the clarification.this should not cause trouble or division among them.
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March 03, 2016, 01:59:11 PM
 #316

Right now Bitcoin's price is rallying and block are full. According to blockchain.info backlog of unconfirmed transactions is 11.6 MB right now and as far as I know there is now spam or stress test going on. How worse does it need to get?

The median block size of 2 weeks is as high as 0.95Mbytes.Check it here. https://chain.btc.com/en/
Scaling bitcoin is necessary!
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March 03, 2016, 02:39:55 PM
 #317

That's are some handy sites. Never had some tools to verify a actual hack was happening.
Not a hack, an attack. Those two concepts aren't the same.

20290 Unconfirmed Transactions Live updating list of new bitcoin transactions
It's not a small number, but we have seen worse.

Scaling bitcoin is necessary!
The network will have a higher capacity as soon as Segwit is released and adopted. Bitcoin will be able to process a lot more in the future.


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March 03, 2016, 05:16:13 PM
 #318

http://web.mit.edu/modiano/www/6.263/lec5-6.pdf
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March 03, 2016, 05:47:02 PM
 #319

Lauda


Segwit is good idea but an increase would required
Segwit should increase the transaction capacity to ~180-190% (or even more depending on use cases). This is close enough to a 2 MB block size limit (keep in mind that there is no guarantee that miners won't use their soft limits again). An increase is most likely going to happen, the question is just when.

I think SegWit is a good idea. It will have an effect and will bring bitcoin forward even in the future. It will cut down the space needed for transactions for a certain amount. Regardless of the amount of transactions and current blocksize. So even with 50MB blocks, Segwit might still be able to nearly double the amount. This is a good thing.

Though I doubt that Segwit will be able to solve the situation fast enough. You know yourself that even when Segwit gets implemented today, the effect would only slowly rise to an effect bringing down the situation. And in the meanwhile the situation can always grow higher than our heads.



RealBitcoin


If it will be necessary to raise blocks then it will be, but better raise them later than now because i heard that many vulnerabilities could occur that way, which could endanger the system.

It needs way more testing, and a hard fork is hard to orchestrate and can hurt bitcoin very badly, so its only a last case scenario.

Well, it's always good to check arguments out for yourself. I'm sure many of the arguments, when you check them, doesn't sound like a real problem to you anymore then.

Though yes, a hardfork, especially with a community divided that bad, can become a problem.



Dissonance


A larger blocksize will make a spam attack more expensive, no?

Bingo... a 2MB block is significantly more expensive to fill.  Lets assume the average block size is about ~.2/3 filled a spammer only has to fill ~1/3MB.  If the block is 2MB that requires 4x the money.  Does it stop it no...but it makes it alot harder.

Yes. Though not completely right. The fees might be lower then though it would not really matter. The blocks now are not full most of the time so there is no reason to believe that 2MB blocks suddenly will have lower fees. The fees probably will be similar to now. So even when fees might be a little bit lower it would help preventing such spam attacks. It simply would be too costly. And nobody tried to spam or attack the network that way before the blocks were nearly as full as now.

So yes, it would be a good prevention by making them pay a lot.

The spam now only ran for 2 days I believe. 4 Times the transactions to fill the block would have meant that the attack would be over before it really started. I think that sounds effective.




Alley


I generally dismiss people running sig campaigns.  They are moslty just posting anything to get the min number of words to earn a few pennies.

In fact I'm annoyed by people making special posts to complain about sig campaigns. Not realizing that they spam threads containing mostly perfectly fine, non spam, posts. So posts like that look way more like topic unrelated spam than anything else in that topic.
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March 03, 2016, 06:54:15 PM
 #320

I think SegWit is a good idea. It will have an effect and will bring bitcoin forward even in the future. It will cut down the space needed for transactions for a certain amount. Regardless of the amount of transactions and current blocksize. So even with 50MB blocks, Segwit might still be able to nearly double the amount. This is a good thing.
There are other benefits that come along with Segwit as well. It is not just about the transaction capacity.

Though I doubt that Segwit will be able to solve the situation fast enough. You know yourself that even when Segwit gets implemented today, the effect would only slowly rise to an effect bringing down the situation. And in the meanwhile the situation can always grow higher than our heads.
Actually this is a good thing. Even if we had a 2 MB block size limit today there is no guarantee that the miners would not impose limits of their own. The sudden bump is not needed. Depending on how much transaction capacity is needed, people are going to adopt clients that already support Segwit. If they don't do so, they are technically saying that they don't need/want more TPS.


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