Turn off S7's during peak hours? Special deal from power company...

[jeremyf327]

Question: Is it ok to turn off miners each day for a few hours during peak electricity rates?

Here is what I am thinking...

NVEnergy offers a "Time of Use" plan where your peak hours are billed very high but non-peak hours are very low. This helps with keeping energy down during the peak hours of scalding hot months in Las Vegas. The plan I am looking at calls "peak" hours from 2pm to 7pm ONLY during the months of July and August billed at a rate of .50171 kWh...BUT ALL other hours the rest of the year are billed at under .06 kWh. This is a great deal for me who has a second meter on my detached garage with very little power usage. So the high peak rates would not affect my regular household. I would need to do some research on getting some sort of timer to shut down the power to the miners during those hours for two months. Turning these off would save me $210 per year per S7. Is it worth it? Thoughts?

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[sobe-it]

I would say its worth it.....unless btc price rises. This will be after the halving tho so It may really really worth it to do so, but like I said unless the btc price rises. BUT if you don't care about the bill and just want to grow your BTC and can pay for the bill in fiat without it changing your livelihood, I would say go for it. I pay $.13/Kwh and I mine regardless if I profit or lose because who knows what tomorrow brings.

Another thing to consider is Bitfury, Bitmain and others will be out with new chips with in the next few months and the diff will rise making it that much less profitable and then the halving right after that. The s7 may or may not be profitable by then, so consider everything and do some math and draw a conclusion, you can always turn them on if something changes.

[SFR10]

Of course it would be worth it. Don't even have second thought on it since the difference of rate in peak hours it's crazy high as opposed to normal hours plus it's just 5 hours a day so it would even help lengthen the miners life as it gets some rest daily as opposed to running it 24/7 so the pros are more than it's cons so switch the S7 off during peak hours.

[Raimonn]

Oh this difference on price is crazy its near 10 times. I think that could be a good decision to turn off the miners on higher prices hours during these two months. But its better that you make some numbers before deciding, you will need to look about bitcoin price, difficulty, and these will be after the halving.

[DrG]

I would keep the miners in an idled state - at least keep the fans running and the OS up - power cycling delicate electronics tends to kill things especially at start up.

Unplugging the ethernet cable and plugging it back in is one easy way - or restrict access in your router if you know how.

[altcoinhosting2]

you are forced to shut the miners down during peak hours if you're having this plan:

http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator/?h=4860&p=1210&pc=0.50171&pf=1.00&d=113354299801.47100000&r=25.00000000&er=402.18060000&hc=0.00

basically, you're losing 25 cents per hour when you keep them running during the peak hours... At current price and block rewards offcourse

[ALToids]

Agree with what was said above - no point in mining at a loss other than to support the network (which you could better support if you weren't running negative).

Also agree not to power off miners entirely - keep them unplugged from the network so they don't have work and then reconnect when ready.

[Mastsetad]

It is worth it to mine during the off peak hours. The electricity price is very cheap. You will have ROI.

[MarkAz]

When I was first starting out in mining and running out of my house, I did something almost the same as that.  Here they have what they call 'EZ-3', where there's only 3 hours of peak demand, the rest is greatly diminished, and I used to work that system.  Looking over my old data, running 24 hours gave me an effective rate of $0.0933, but running 21 hours made it $0.0803.  They have a demand system also, that is 8 hours demand, 16 hours flat, and that was 24 hours at $0.0674 or 16 hours at $0.0389.  Nice! 

I ended up just making it so the miners downclocked to their lowest setting during those on-peak hours, and that ended up being the easiest solution.

[jeremyf327]

Great feedback guys! Thanks! Here is a link to the rate sheet:

https://www.nvenergy.com/brochures_arch/rate_schedules/np_res_rate.pdf

I ran the numbers and believe it or not Option B is better when running more than one miner. I would only have to worry about not mining 5 hours a day for two months. I think that is the way to go. I will for sure downclock rather then shut them down like suggested.

I have another question I would love feedback on. Some say a 240v/20 amp circuit would be fine to run two miners. Others say go with 240v/30 amp. I understand the newer S7's run closer to 1500 watts, but even at that my calculation says 1500 / 240 = 6.25 amps per unit. Would these S7's run more efficient at the 30 amps?

[QuintLeo]

 220 volt 20 amp is PLENTY to run 2 S7s on, if you have any sort of 80Plus rated power supplies.

 With platinum power supplies or good gold ones, you might be able to squeeze 3 onto a 20 amp 220 circuit.

 The efficiency difference you probably won't be able to measure, unless the wiring is VERY long.

[cryptotore]

220 volt 20 amp is PLENTY to run 2 S7s on, if you have any sort of 80Plus rated power supplies.

 With platinum power supplies or good gold ones, you might be able to squeeze 3 onto a 20 amp 220 circuit.

 The efficiency difference you probably won't be able to measure, unless the wiring is VERY long.

"Might be able to squeeze", just stop for a second and listen to the sound of that..

IMO he could run MAX 2 1500W miners on a 20A/220V circuit, safely.
For a safe setup, he shouldn't use more than ~70% of the circuts max rating, when running 24/7.

This is what squeezing looks like:


Cheers, Jeremy

[QuintLeo]

Depends on how hard he's pushing the S7s and which batch and HOW EFFICIENT HIS POWER SUPPLIES ARE, some S7 setups are more like 1300 watt miners (3 of THOSE will fit into a 20 amp 220 circuit, power-need wise) but 3 of the late batch use 1500 watters or run lower-efficiency supplies is pushing it too hard for safety.

 Perhaps I should have said "MIGHT" instead of "might".


 Hint.
 NEC specs electrical wiring and outlets and breakers for 24/7 operation.
 Do keep in mind that the NEC applies to commercial facilities JUST AS MUCH as it applies to homes, and the spec is THE SAME for both.

 It is NOT like pushing a common power supply to 100% continuous, the NEC code specs are quite conservative.



 I'm not sure what that thing you posted an image of is supposed to be, it doesn't look at all like ANYTHING commonly used in a US power wiring situation.
 Something European perhaps?

[cryptotore]

Depends on how hard he's pushing the S7s and which batch and HOW EFFICIENT HIS POWER SUPPLIES ARE, some S7 setups are more like 1300 watt miners (3 of THOSE will fit into a 20 amp 220 circuit, power-need wise) but 3 of the late batch use 1500 watters or run lower-efficiency supplies is pushing it too hard for safety.

 Perhaps I should have said "MIGHT" instead of "might".


 Hint.
 NEC specs electrical wiring and outlets and breakers for 24/7 operation.
 Do keep in mind that the NEC applies to commercial facilities JUST AS MUCH as it applies to homes, and the spec is THE SAME for both.

 It is NOT like pushing a common power supply to 100% continuous, the NEC code specs are quite conservative.



 I'm not sure what that thing you posted an image of is supposed to be, it doesn't look at all like ANYTHING commonly used in a US power wiring situation.
 Something European perhaps?

I have no idea what NEC is. A standard I guess?

The image is of the insides of a wall mounted type f electrical outlet. It got hot because of a bad wiring job/stupid wire-connectors, and triggered by 100% load 24/7. It created a low "touch-surface"/little contact between the wire and the connector in the socket, which made it overheat. It was in a old house.

So, whats NEC?

[QuintLeo]

National Electric Code, which is what wiring, outlets, etc are required to live up to in the USA.

 Technically, it's not mandated nationwide - but every local and state jurisdiction I know of and have heard of incorporates it "by reference" into applicable law.

 Never heard of a "type F" outlet, I'm guessing you're not in the USA.

[Myffas]

Of course it would be worth it. Don't even have second thought on it since the difference of rate in peak hours it's crazy high as opposed to normal hours plus it's just 5 hours a day so it would even help lengthen the miners life as it gets some rest daily as opposed to running it 24/7 so the pros are more than it's cons so switch the S7 off during peak hours.

Cycling on and off daily actually shorten life of electronics. Thermal dilatation of chip compared to PCB bends the leads of the chips and eventually fatigue fails them. Good board design would not be affected by thermal cycling while bad ones would be destroyed.

That being said, I don’t think this would really affect the reliability of your miners and I would most likely shut them down every day at that extreme electricity rate.

[cryptotore]

National Electric Code, which is what wiring, outlets, etc are required to live up to in the USA.

 Technically, it's not mandated nationwide - but every local and state jurisdiction I know of and have heard of incorporates it "by reference" into applicable law.

 Never heard of a "type F" outlet, I'm guessing you're not in the USA.

I'm not in the USA. Here's a list of countries that uses this type of outlet:
Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, American Samoa, Andorra, Armenia, Aruba, Austria, Azerbaijan, Azores, Belarus, Bhutan, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Cape Verde, Chad, Croatia, Cuba, East Timor, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Guinea, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Italy, Jordan, Korea, Laos, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Madeira, Monaco, Montenegro, Mozambique, Myanmar, Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles, New Caledonia, Niger, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, Suriname, Sweden, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uruguay. ^^

It really doesn't matter what the plug looks like, I think I got my point across. I don't want any fellow miners to burn their house down.

After reading up on NEC, it seems like you guys operate with 2 different ratings? Nominal rating and continuous rating?

"Most commonly available circuit breakers are rated to carry no more than 80% of their nominal rating continuously (3 hours or more) (NEC Art. 100). 100%-rated circuit breakers are manufactured for and may carry 100% of their nominal rating continuously."

I'm not quite sure how to read the quote above, but what you're saying is that all homes in the US got circuit breakers that are rated for 100% continuous load? Thats great!


PS: Anyone know why the [img] tag won't work?

[QuintLeo]

I've never seen a circuit breaker in actual usage that isn't rated for 100% continuous load.
On the other hand, I've stuck with Square D "QO" series breakers/panals in my own usage for a very long time - and those are commonly used in commercial buildings not just residential (turns out every place I've owned, and all the apartments I've had where I had access to the breakers, QO gear was used).

 Square D also makes a different series, "HomeLight" or something like that - but I've never bothered with that stuff, the overall cost for box + breakers tends to end up being a bit higher than QO for the stuff I wire.

 GE and Siemens (and possibly one or more other companies I don't remember off the top of my head) also sell breakers and boxes in the US, but they tend to be more expensive when I compare to QO so I've never bothered checking their specs.

[DrG]

Of course it would be worth it. Don't even have second thought on it since the difference of rate in peak hours it's crazy high as opposed to normal hours plus it's just 5 hours a day so it would even help lengthen the miners life as it gets some rest daily as opposed to running it 24/7 so the pros are more than it's cons so switch the S7 off during peak hours.

Cycling on and off daily actually shorten life of electronics. Thermal dilatation of chip compared to PCB bends the leads of the chips and eventually fatigue fails them. Good board design would not be affected by thermal cycling while bad ones would be destroyed.

That being said, I don’t think this would really affect the reliability of your miners and I would most likely shut them down every day at that extreme electricity rate.

I have had a few miners die during the power-up phase.  That was from a cold start.  That's why I suggest that he leave them in an idle state where they're only drawing like 50W to run the fans and keep the OS active and plug the cable back in when the cheap rates go online.

[Mastsetad]

Of course it would be worth it. Don't even have second thought on it since the difference of rate in peak hours it's crazy high as opposed to normal hours plus it's just 5 hours a day so it would even help lengthen the miners life as it gets some rest daily as opposed to running it 24/7 so the pros are more than it's cons so switch the S7 off during peak hours.

Cycling on and off daily actually shorten life of electronics. Thermal dilatation of chip compared to PCB bends the leads of the chips and eventually fatigue fails them. Good board design would not be affected by thermal cycling while bad ones would be destroyed.

That being said, I don’t think this would really affect the reliability of your miners and I would most likely shut them down every day at that extreme electricity rate.

I have had a few miners die during the power-up phase.  That was from a cold start.  That's why I suggest that he leave them in an idle state where they're only drawing like 50W to run the fans and keep the OS active and plug the cable back in when the cheap rates go online.

Is that due to cycling? The power difference between 50W or 0W and 1200W is very big. 50W cannot keep your PCB warm.

[Myffas]

Of course it would be worth it. Don't even have second thought on it since the difference of rate in peak hours it's crazy high as opposed to normal hours plus it's just 5 hours a day so it would even help lengthen the miners life as it gets some rest daily as opposed to running it 24/7 so the pros are more than it's cons so switch the S7 off during peak hours.

Cycling on and off daily actually shorten life of electronics. Thermal dilatation of chip compared to PCB bends the leads of the chips and eventually fatigue fails them. Good board design would not be affected by thermal cycling while bad ones would be destroyed.

That being said, I don’t think this would really affect the reliability of your miners and I would most likely shut them down every day at that extreme electricity rate.

I have had a few miners die during the power-up phase.  That was from a cold start.  That's why I suggest that he leave them in an idle state where they're only drawing like 50W to run the fans and keep the OS active and plug the cable back in when the cheap rates go online.

Is that due to cycling? The power difference between 50W or 0W and 1200W is very big. 50W cannot keep your PCB warm.

I was about to write the same thing. Mastsetad, you've been faster

[QuintLeo]

By far the highest probability of anything electronic dying is when you turn it on - lots of extra stress on a lot of the components, especially inrush currents in power supplies.

 This is the reason some companies tell their employees "leave the computer on", despite the cost of the extra electric usage.

[Myffas]

By far the highest probability of anything electronic dying is when you turn it on - lots of extra stress on a lot of the components, especially inrush currents in power supplies.

 This is the reason some companies tell their employees "leave the computer on", despite the cost of the extra electric usage.

So your suggestion is to underclock the miners during peak hours? Hard to tell what to do, at that price its lots of money to maybe increase life of miners.

Is there an easy way to switch overclock/underclock on a timmer ?

[RichBC]

By far the highest probability of anything electronic dying is when you turn it on - lots of extra stress on a lot of the components, especially inrush currents in power supplies.

 This is the reason some companies tell their employees "leave the computer on", despite the cost of the extra electric usage.

So your suggestion is to underclock the miners during peak hours? Hard to tell what to do, at that price its lots of money to maybe increase life of miners.

Is there an easy way to switch overclock/underclock on a timmer ?

I am not sure how the S7 responds in terms of current consumption and reliable restarting? But if they reliably restart and the current reduces significantly then you could just turn on & off the Internet connection on a timer?

Rich

[alh]

Depending on your router, it's possible you might be able to control the miners access to the Internet. I have seen some routeers that had "Parental Control" options, the idea being that they could limit their kids access to the Internet based on time of day. I have never tried to do such a thing, but I know they exist.

I would think that some kind of cron job running on the miner might be able to re-jigger the cgminer config file at the right time and then force a restart of cgminer. I think something like that was present on the SP20, and the general idea could be transplanted to the Antminer S7 environment.

[QuintLeo]

Presuming the S7 is like the S5 (I don't have an actual S7 but it seems like the software didn't change much between the two from what I've read), you probably have to SSH into it, write a script to change the clock, and run a CRON job to change it on a timer.

 This should be a much safer option to cycling the power, and has the plus that if you set it up right it autoreboots your miner a couple times a day so you don't have to monitor it as closely.


 That was one nice thing about the Spondoolies SP20, they had "change the undervolt settings" in the web interface - though it tended to bug out and you had to re-edit by hand in the actual chon file if you had more than 2 or 3 total settings.