A foundation with 80% of the coins can never work.

[crazy_rabbit]

I know this has probably been hashed over quite a bit in your own forums, but I have a feeling that at the FRC forums most members were probably all of the same mind and perhaps didn't question as vigorously some of your initial premises.

My big question is, why take any coins for the "foundation"? We all know "Power Corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" so why set yourself up like that? There is no way you can honestly stay open/true/transparent/fair/just forever. It would be arrogance on an greek tragedy scale to assume the foundation will ever be able to measure up to it's own values.

I mean, be honest- the 'users' don't know you. We don't know who you are, where you live, what you do, what you look like. You're not Mother Theresa or some other living/dead saint. How on earth can you expect for users to trust your word? If FRC had been Bitcoin you would be sitting on ±8 million BTC or 80 million Euros by now. You promise to distribute "transparently", but for the number of FRC supporters here with post counts under 30 i can't help but feel that transparently might not mean 'honestly'.

Bitcoin works because no one controls it with anything other then their hash power. It's the most 'transparent' decision making process possible. Fairness is relative so yeah, you could say it's not so fair. But it is guaranteed that there isn't a secret committee in control of some vast wealth.

Hard wiring the foundation to posses 80% of the coins just can not work. Even if FRC managed to build a following, no one will ever sleep at night knowing that  at any moment a "transparent" process could sell the entire user base out.

Not to mention if someone nefariously gets control of the private keys of that 80%, then what? Greatest hack of all time?

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[drakahn]

freicoin seems like realsolids dreamcoin

[hanzac]

I just think it's waste of electricity & hashing hardware. Because it's like a centralized currency distribution, why don't they just create a centralized digital currency at all instead of wasting the miners hash-power?

[DeathAndTaxes]

I just think it's waste of electricity & hashing hardware. Because it's like a centralized currency distribution, why don't they just create a centralized digital currency at all instead of wasting the miners hash-power?

Marketing.  If the FRC team said:

Hey we have this centralized currency with 20? million FRC.  How many do you guys want to buy @ $x per 1,000 FRC?

How many takers do you think they would have?  None right.  Thus their hoard would be nothing ($0 * x = $0.00).  By giving miners a token amount they burn up electricity, time, resources and it makes the currency seem more real.  The funny thing is the miners are in direct competition for the scraps while the bulk of the coin supply is just handed to the "foundation" (= some buys).   Even CoinHunter wasn't that ambitious.  He got tore to shreads for having a x% tax going to his personal wallet (which he also tried to give a lofty name "the coin protection fund").  The marketing gives the perception of value.  Suddenly that 80% hoard is worth (as long as they can find suckers to unload them) a lot more.  

Very clever marketing.   Essentially it is solidcoin garbage all over again except this time they have the marketing down.

[maaku]

Then don't use Freicoin.

[DarkHyudrA]

Then don't use Freicoin.

Even one of the devs doesn't want you rabbit. lol
Then let's wait the blockchain die.

[FuzzyBear]

Then don't use Freicoin.

So what your plans to put value into the currency?

You selling products? setting up service websites? creating applications for merchants to include FRC in their existing website? or u looking for other developers to do this and then u set up rewards and bounties? if so what are your desired projects you want to see?

Very interested to hear your proposals for the 80% coins in the dev pot... tell us some initial thoughts and maybe people will get off ur backs... otherwise yeah does seem like a disguised premine...

[maaku]

So what your plans to put value into the currency?

You selling products? setting up service websites? creating applications for merchants to include FRC in their existing website? or u looking for other developers to do this and then u set up rewards and bounties? if so what are your desired projects you want to see?

Yes - except for the part that mentions me specifically. The plan is for the Foundation funds to help facilitate the creation of a sustainable freicoin economy by either helping directly create a marketplace priced in freicoin (bounty/prize grants, subsidies), or providing freicoins to charitable organizations which would buy from that marketplace, thereby helping bootstrap industries.

Is that a little vague? Yes. Because I won't be the one doing it - the Foundation will, and I am not the Foundation. Once the Foundation is set up the private keys will be handed over and the people running the Foundation will handle disbursement.

It's not going to be my proposals that get selected, but yours. Have an idea that has communal value and helps bootstrap the Freicoin economy? Write it up as a proposal.

[Raoul Duke]

Shitcoins already have Foundations? WOW 

[ElectricMucus]

Then don't use Freicoin.

It's not that easy. If the community decides that doing something like the freicoin devs do is not allowed and backs it up with hashing power there is nothing anybody can do about it.
Added to that there are many people here who are interested in concepts like demurrage and it is quite a disappointment that something gets crippled like that by a small minorities lust for power.




Some food for your thought:
If you really wanna live in the dreamy new world of cryptoanarchism you better learn to obey the laws.
You should know by now that creating a bitcoin fork while trying to be a smartass is against it.

We have not only the realm of alternate cryptocurrencies to protect but also the attribution of bitcoin to decentralization.

[John (John K.)]

Just to pop in and give my .02 cents:

It's Solidcoins all over again- with the noted addition of witting/unwitting sockpuppets in the tow.

(PS: I remember warning this when Solidcoins v1,2,... just came out.)

[smoothie]

So what your plans to put value into the currency?

You selling products? setting up service websites? creating applications for merchants to include FRC in their existing website? or u looking for other developers to do this and then u set up rewards and bounties? if so what are your desired projects you want to see?

Yes - except for the part that mentions me specifically. The plan is for the Foundation funds to help facilitate the creation of a sustainable freicoin economy by either helping directly create a marketplace priced in freicoin (bounty/prize grants, subsidies), or providing freicoins to charitable organizations which would buy from that marketplace, thereby helping bootstrap industries.

Is that a little vague? Yes. Because I won't be the one doing it - the Foundation will, and I am not the Foundation. Once the Foundation is set up the private keys will be handed over and the people running the Foundation will handle disbursement.

It's not going to be my proposals that get selected, but yours. Have an idea that has communal value and helps bootstrap the Freicoin economy? Write it up as a proposal.

Wow so much of what Maaku is saying here reminds me of RealSolid.

LOL 

[Endgame]

why are only 80% of coins going to the foundation? Common guys, foundation deserves much more than that after all the work they've done. 

[PsychoticBoy]

FREIcoin hmmn sounds very German (Deutsch), they dont know what freedom is look at 1940-1945.
Just another shitcoin, poopcoin, crapcoin, scamcoin.

[smoothie]

why are only 80% of coins going to the foundation? Common guys, foundation deserves much more than that after all the work they've done. 

Good point.

Why couldn't it be 99.999% instead of 80%?

[maaku]

Why couldn't it be 99.999% instead of 80%?

Because we want some coins to enter the system bottom-up as well, and mining subsidy is currently the best way to do that.

[smoothie]

Why couldn't it be 99.999% instead of 80%?

Because we want some coins to enter the system bottom-up as well, and mining subsidy is currently the best way to do that.

As high as 80% of the total supply, why not just make it higher? 99.99% is better than 80%...using your logic. lol

[hanzac]

Why couldn't it be 99.999% instead of 80%?

Because we want some coins to enter the system bottom-up as well, and mining subsidy is currently the best way to do that.

This is ridiculous, if you want to make use of the miners, please pay a reasonable price according to the current BTC/LTC/etc. mining cost. For example, establish an exchange website and buy/sell your FRC at a reasonable price (in BTC/USD/LTC, as your choice) to distribute your centralized currency or buy/accumulate your FRC from the miners! This is a fair/reasonable way for your purpose, otherwise, it's definitely doom to failure.

[smoothie]

Why couldn't it be 99.999% instead of 80%?

Because we want some coins to enter the system bottom-up as well, and mining subsidy is currently the best way to do that.

This is ridiculous, if you want to make use of the miners, please pay a reasonable price according to the current BTC/LTC/etc. mining cost. For example, establish an exchange website and buy/sell your FRC at a reasonable price (in BTC/USD/LTC, as your choice) to distribute your centralized currency or buy/accumulate your FRC from the miners! This is a fair/reasonable way for your purpose, otherwise, it's definitely doom to failure.

+1

[sd]

Why couldn't it be 99.999% instead of 80%?

Because we want some coins to enter the system bottom-up as well, and mining subsidy is currently the best way to do that.

Maaku,

Would you give up 80% of your wages to a stranger?

No? Then don't expect miners to give you 80% of their earnings when they could mine something else and keep 100%.


Your message that miners should trust some faceless, and inevitably corrupt, foundation with their earnings more than they should trust themselves is delusional. You have fallen to uncontrolled greed.