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Author Topic: EU plans KYC regulations for online wallets and exchanges services  (Read 1478 times)
oblivi
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February 03, 2016, 07:07:07 PM
 #21

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.

But how can you regulate something that is impossible to regulate.

I mean sure you can put regulations on exchanges but guess what, new exchanges will be hosted in islands or some place where there are no regulations.

Or new technology like p2p exchanges that are decentralized will arise.

Also you can't regulate p2p transaction between private parties (for example you and me trade bitcoin for cash or you sell me something privately)

They want to regulate that but it's impossible, so regulating Bitcoin is a losing game.

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AgentofCoin
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February 03, 2016, 07:08:38 PM
 #22

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.

Stop FUDing.

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable

Mainstream + Unregulatable = Unstoppable

Want to Stop the Unstoppable? Send all world civilizations back to the 1700's.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
BellaBitBit
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February 03, 2016, 07:12:25 PM
 #23

Anxious to see how the community reacts to this.  This could be just another attempt to control Bitcoin that will have no effect, maybe short term but nothing long lasting.  The EU cannot rugulate a GLOBAL currency.

I love Bitcoin
mayax
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February 03, 2016, 07:20:35 PM
 #24

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.

Stop FUDing.

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable

Mainstream + Unregulatable = Unstoppable

Want to Stop the Unstoppable? Send all world civilizations back to the 1700's.

Stop being ignorant and living in a hipster dream Smiley

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable = USELESS without exchangers. The exchangers must have financial license because there are laws regarding to that. Period! Smiley

Mainstream + financial LAWs = Financial license = REGULATION Smiley   See Coinbase, Itbit, and Circle who are already licensed? Why do they spend a lot of money for that? Do you think they are stupids? They know very well that without license, they cannot go mainstream and the police can close their business anytime.

world civilizations is based on laws. that's why you are where you are now, that's why you have internet, electricity and so on...because there are laws(good or bad).

you are free to live like an Amish if you want to be "independent" and "unregulated"
AgentofCoin
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February 03, 2016, 07:39:06 PM
 #25

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.

Stop FUDing.

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable

Mainstream + Unregulatable = Unstoppable

Want to Stop the Unstoppable? Send all world civilizations back to the 1700's.

Stop being ignorant and living in a hipster dream Smiley

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable = USELESS without exchangers. The exchangers must have financial license because there are laws regarding to that. Period! Smiley

Mainstream + financial LAWs = Financial license = REGULATION Smiley   See Coinbase, Itbit, and Circle who are already licensed? Why do they spend a lot of money for that? Do you think they are stupids? They know very well that without license, they cannot go mainstream and the police can close their business anytime.

world civilizations is based on laws. that's why you are where you are now, that's why you have internet, electricity and so on. you are free to live like an Amish if you want to be "independent" and "unregulated"


Bitcoin was created as a experiment in value and exchange OUTSIDE of regulation.
Are you saying that Bitcoin/bitcoin has failed because in order to become mainstream it must violate its original purpose?

You can not regulate Bitcoin/bitcoin. You can only regulate the on and off ramps.

If your concern is regulation and mainstream, I suggest you buy some Ripple.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
fair_player
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February 03, 2016, 07:41:21 PM
 #26

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.

Stop FUDing.

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable

Mainstream + Unregulatable = Unstoppable

Want to Stop the Unstoppable? Send all world civilizations back to the 1700's.

Stop being ignorant and living in a hipster dream Smiley

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable = USELESS without exchangers. The exchangers must have financial license because there are laws regarding to that. Period! Smiley

Mainstream + financial LAWs = Financial license = REGULATION Smiley   See Coinbase, Itbit, and Circle who are already licensed? Why do they spend a lot of money for that? Do you think they are stupids? They know very well that without license, they cannot go mainstream and the police can close their business anytime.

world civilizations is based on laws. that's why you are where you are now, that's why you have internet, electricity and so on. you are free to live like an Amish if you want to be "independent" and "unregulated"


Bitcoin was created as a experiment in value and exchange OUTSIDE of regulation.
Are you saying that Bitcoin/bitcoin has failed because in order to become mainstream it must violate its original purpose?

You can not regulate Bitcoin/bitcoin. You can only regulate the on and off ramps.

Well, that's not exactly like that. In order to spread, bitcoin certainly needs exchanges. If exchanges are subjected to governmental regulations, then it's a serious threat for the growth of bitcoin.

AgentofCoin
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February 03, 2016, 07:47:16 PM
 #27

...
Well, that's not exactly like that. In order to spread, bitcoin certainly needs exchanges.
If exchanges are subjected to governmental regulations, then it's a serious threat for the growth of bitcoin.

In order to spread, no. Bitcoin/bitcoin was designed to spread via P2P.
If governments regulate the exchanges, you think that will stop adoption?

No, that will only stop a rapid mass adoption.
Bitcoin/bitcoin is designed to build over years if not decades.
Users will grow naturally over time with or without exchanges.

If you want your 1btc, to be worth 1million USD now, then yeah, you got a problem.
If you understand what the whitepaper's purpose is, then just sit back and watch them spin their wheels.


I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
mayax
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February 03, 2016, 08:18:27 PM
 #28

...
Well, that's not exactly like that. In order to spread, bitcoin certainly needs exchanges.
If exchanges are subjected to governmental regulations, then it's a serious threat for the growth of bitcoin.

In order to spread, no. Bitcoin/bitcoin was designed to spread via P2P.
If governments regulate the exchanges, you think that will stop adoption?

No, that will only stop a rapid mass adoption.
Bitcoin/bitcoin is designed to build over years if not decades.
Users will grow naturally over time with or without exchanges.

If you want your 1btc, to be worth 1million USD now, then yeah, you got a problem.
If you understand what the whitepaper's purpose is, then just sit back and watch them spin their wheels.



tell that to others and to "investors".... sit back and wait for decades Smiley
AgentofCoin
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February 03, 2016, 08:35:53 PM
 #29

...
Well, that's not exactly like that. In order to spread, bitcoin certainly needs exchanges.
If exchanges are subjected to governmental regulations, then it's a serious threat for the growth of bitcoin.

In order to spread, no. Bitcoin/bitcoin was designed to spread via P2P.
If governments regulate the exchanges, you think that will stop adoption?

No, that will only stop a rapid mass adoption.
Bitcoin/bitcoin is designed to build over years if not decades.
Users will grow naturally over time with or without exchanges.

If you want your 1btc, to be worth 1million USD now, then yeah, you got a problem.
If you understand what the whitepaper's purpose is, then just sit back and watch them spin their wheels.

tell that to others and to "investors".... sit back and wait for decades Smiley

If others have been mislead by their own desires and own misunderstandings, that is their own fault.
Everything is in plain sight and anyone can research and understand the system.
If they just want fast turnover, maybe the "others" such participate in "Double Your Coin" scams.

If "investors" want to invest in layers on top of the Bitcoin protocol, that is their own desire and risk.
All "investors" understand that with all investments, there is risk of failure and losses.
True "investors" of bitcoin (the actual coin and not the other layers and systems), understand it will take time and mostly HODLing.

IMO Satoshi's original proposal intended mostly HODLing and time, thus the Halving Mechanism and 21M Coin Limit.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
DimensionZ
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February 03, 2016, 09:34:03 PM
 #30

Bitstamp have been asking for KYC documents from customers for a while it's a standard procedure when moving money around online so it's not a big problem to get verified but the bad news is if online wallets start to ask for IDs it will be a big bother to move from one wallet to another this way.

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February 03, 2016, 11:20:40 PM
 #31

A few weeks ago, there was a proposal from 3 lone members of the European parliament, but it's much more serious now with this proposal. It's coming straight from the European Commission in Brussels:

Virtual currency exchange platforms can be considered as 'electronic' currency exchange offices that trade virtual currencies for real currencies (or so-called 'fiat' currencies, such as the euro). On the other hand, virtual currency wallet providers hold virtual currency accounts on behalf of their customers. In the 'virtual currency' world, they are the equivalent of a bank offering a current account. They store virtual currencies and allow for their transfers to other wallets/virtual currency accounts.

There is a growing consensus in Europe that virtual currency exchange platforms should be subjected to 'know-your-customer' rules under the Fourth Anti-Money Laundering Directive, which will have to identify and verify the identity of the person exchanging virtual currencies for real currencies and vice versa.


No more anonymous transactions in Europe. That's their goal.

do you have a link dude
cheers

My mistake. I forgot to add source. This come from here:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-209_en.pdf

Check page 3.

Bitstamp have been asking for KYC documents from customers for a while it's a standard procedure when moving money around online so it's not a big problem to get verified but the bad news is if online wallets start to ask for IDs it will be a big bother to move from one wallet to another this way.

I've heard about that. In several countries already, exchanges ask for a proof of ID and various stuff. But this isn't standard procedure in all European countries yet.  When I bought BTC via bitcoin.de, they only checked my bank account.
mayax
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February 04, 2016, 01:55:20 AM
 #32

Bitstamp have been asking for KYC documents from customers for a while it's a standard procedure when moving money around online so it's not a big problem to get verified but the bad news is if online wallets start to ask for IDs it will be a big bother to move from one wallet to another this way.

Any exchanger must be financial licensed according to the EU laws.
Bitstamp may ask any paper they want but it's outlaw because they are not licensed.  It's like you open a bank without license. You can open a website, you can say that you are bank and asking for documents and shits but it doesn't mean you are regulated. You are just an outlaw bank and nothing more; same with Bitstamp, BTC-e and others. They are unlicensed financial companies.

Wallets must be licensed too because they store/transmit (value) money
Kakmakr
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February 04, 2016, 07:03:19 AM
 #33

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.

Stop FUDing.

P2P + Open Source + Decentralization = Unregulatable

Mainstream + Unregulatable = Unstoppable

Want to Stop the Unstoppable? Send all world civilizations back to the 1700's.

Stop being ignorant and living in a hipster dream Smiley


you are free to live like an Amish if you want to be "independent" and "unregulated"


There are a difference between wanting to live without rules and regulations and just living with rules and regulations that does not turn into a Police state. The pseudo anonymity with Bitcoin is exactly the same as the cash you withdrawn from the ATM.

You can chose to accept cash from other people and stay anonymous or you can go to a ATM and have your photo taken and your bank account linked to that transaction. Bitcoin leave some evidence behind, which government agencies could follow.

If I force someone to open a bank account with all the legal papers, and I use that to transfer terrorist funding, who will find me? <They use innocent people to do their dirty work for them> They can do the same with regulated Bitcoin exchanges.

Let's be realistic, the system is full of holes. 

FlyingSaucer
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February 04, 2016, 07:10:47 AM
 #34

If you are a legitimate user of Bitcoin I don't think KYC will make such a big difference for you other than uploading your monthly phone bill. Your Facebook account contains probably more personal stuff than that Grin
Bitcoinorama
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February 04, 2016, 07:22:48 AM
 #35

In the UK KYC has a massive advantage for the exchanges.

They will be allowed to accept CC payment using the new Payment Systems Regulation.

Until now the 5 banks; Santander HSBC Natwest Lloyds and Barclays have denies all Bitcoin businesses merchant accounts.

You have had to go through those 5 banks for a merchant account (ask Fidor)

Now these banks are really annoyed, as the UK Government has said thats anti-competition and any business that conducts KYC AML should be allowed to process card payments.

In the EU though they have had no problem with merchant accounts.

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mayax
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February 04, 2016, 02:59:17 PM
 #36

In the UK KYC has a massive advantage for the exchanges.

They will be allowed to accept CC payment using the new Payment Systems Regulation.

Until now the 5 banks; Santander HSBC Natwest Lloyds and Barclays have denies all Bitcoin businesses merchant accounts.

You have had to go through those 5 banks for a merchant account (ask Fidor)

Now these banks are really annoyed, as the UK Government has said thats anti-competition and any business that conducts KYC AML should be allowed to process card payments.

In the EU though they have had no problem with merchant accounts.

Their merchants accounts will be closed soon due to the frauds. The merchants are interested to make due diligence otherwise they may face chargebacks and they will be bankrupted.
  If a merchant has over 7% frauds, their account is closed. It's most likely to happen in this business where 90% is black market(scams).
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February 04, 2016, 03:07:39 PM
 #37

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.
There is always a way. Bitcoin=internet, unless they block internet there is no way to regulate bitcoin without interference in bitcoin core protocol.
We just won't be using online wallets and regulated exchanges, there will be always BTC-e or some other similar exchanges.
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February 04, 2016, 03:07:55 PM
 #38

Fallacy  - Banks create fiat currencies (not governments), Miners create Bitcoin not the exchanges.


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February 04, 2016, 08:11:34 PM
 #39

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.
There is always a way. Bitcoin=internet, unless they block internet there is no way to regulate bitcoin without interference in bitcoin core protocol.
We just won't be using online wallets and regulated exchanges, there will be always BTC-e or some other similar exchanges.

Exchanges - this is all a load of bollocks.

Exchanges are temporary restrictions. When you can pay Bitcoin for a hot dog from a street vendor, you will have no need for exchanges. People should simply invest in updating the infrastructure of the real economy, and not on constructing temporary bridges.
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February 04, 2016, 08:20:25 PM
 #40

No need for bit licences, just regulate as fiat.

Bitcoin going mainstream.

mainstream=regulation. there is NO other way.
There is always a way. Bitcoin=internet, unless they block internet there is no way to regulate bitcoin without interference in bitcoin core protocol.
We just won't be using online wallets and regulated exchanges, there will be always BTC-e or some other similar exchanges.

Exchanges - this is all a load of bollocks.

Exchanges are temporary restrictions. When you can pay Bitcoin for a hot dog from a street vendor, you will have no need for exchanges. People should simply invest in updating the infrastructure of the real economy, and not on constructing temporary bridges.

Okay the hotdog vendor will accept bitcoins but when he gets said bitcoins and goes to the bakery to buy some buns for next day's batch or to the supermarket to buy sausages and they don't accept bitcoins there how will he manage that without the exchanges to turn into fiat? Everyone is so short-sighted with Bitcoins.

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