IOTA - Unmoderated thread

[Come-from-Beyond]

No, they are not a big problem at all.

In fact that is only a subject of academic papers at this moment in time and cannot be a building stone of a viable start-up business that by definition needs to generate revenue. Again, a good looking package to lure out money from idiots, but in fact it is absurd to say (i.e scam) that you will build a viable business by delivering a quantum safe digital currency. In reality, even Bitcoin failed to find its way to the mass, so the quantum computers are the smallest problems of decentralized digital currency.
 
To use an analogy so you would understand how ridiculous is to build a business by addressing the Quantum computers problem, it is like, that I would present a business plan which ask investment to build an extra 50,000 retirement homes because sometimes later, we don't know when but at some point in the future the life expectancy will be 110 years and therefore presumably we will need a lot more retirement homes.

Go and ask investment from a technology angel investor or venture capitalist for a quantum safe digital currency. You will see the reaction. Such absurd unique selling point (USP) can be presented only in this irrational microcosmos where wannabe rich idiots give their 1-2 BTC "investments" for all kind of nonsenses.

You should add links that prove your words. Because of your reputation of a big liar.

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[altcoinUK]

(I am so pleased to see that the NEM developers in Japan make a very good progress in the real adoption, so apart from the scams there is some good progress in real adoption and I have no doubt yours will be the next).

Jabo38 was in my inner circle in 2014 so perhaps some of my ideas rubbed off on him when he saw that my progress was too slow so he found that opportunity and apparently ran with it.

Yes, I understand that. Still, what the NEM guys achieved is really impressive and exemplary. No wonder they have been succeeding in providing solution with the private blockchain. It has been a no brainier. I pointed out the need for a private blockchain many times to Vitalik, the GDC developers, the Skycoin dev in the last 2 years, and I think Ethereum will move to that are as well. Clearly, that is a viable business proposition.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I pointed out the need for a private blockchain many times to Vitalik, the GDC developers, the Skycoin dev in the last 2 years...

I like how you imply that you are close to these people while actually they didn't even notice your posts.

[TPTB_need_war]

AltcoinUK, I suggest you focus on the message of why you think JINN labs is so unrealistic. And I also think you can refer to my decentralization thread for why (I think) Iota leads to centralization. Those seem to be strong arguments in your favor.

I think if you continue to assert the scam accusation and attack every aspect of Iota as entirely worthless, then you will lose credibility even IF you end up being correct about its ultimate failure. Those arguments appear to readers as vindictive.

But of course I can't tell you what to do. And perhaps I am mistaken about perceptions (but I doubt it).

I support your ethics and I also support your sober analysis of potential markets. I am just hoping you don't let CfB's ribbing incite you to turn it into a vendetta, which will then lower your own credibility. I know it is difficult in the heat of the moment, but try to think about that you can't protect every speculator from everything nor is that your role.

Balance.

[Come-from-Beyond]

which will then lower your own credibility

His credibility can't be lower.

[altcoinUK]

There are no investors in IOTA and there is absolutely no scam being conducted.

However you twist your terms of conditions even EU based law enforcement (your jurisdiction) will find that your money collecting party in fact is the subject of financial regulations.

The rest of your post is the used care salesman pitch, which I understand you need very much to deliver before the P&D start. Lets be clear, however you wish that would be the case, you are not in the category of the start-ups that indeed deliver disruptive technologies. Your "business" that lures money from idiots is a fucking crypto currency money collecting party and it has nothing to do with disruptive start-ups like Mongodb, Spacex, SugarCRM, Evrythng just to mention a few came to my mind from different sectors, however you would like to compare yourself the disruptive start-ups that challenge Google and Microsoft. If you truly believe your own bollocks - which I doubt very much you do - then get a reality check boy, you need it.

[TPTB_need_war]

which will then lower your own credibility

His credibility can't be lower.

AltcoinUK is doing what he thinks is right and ethical. But he perhaps made some accusations which he could not prove (e.g. that you are anonymous). He does need to be more careful about fact checking.

Some of his points are correct. So I can't agree that his credibility is aweful.

AltcoinUK please be aware that CfB is taking advantage of your weaknesses, which is that you get inflamed and then you overstep from good/strong arguments to weaker or even unsupported/incorrect arguments.

It is difficultimpossible to omniscient. Please remember that the more one asserts, the more odds of being incorrect. I really push that limit. I assert so many things, yet I have reasonably good record of backing up my assertions in fact. And I don't push too aggressively on a vague issue such as CAP theorem applicability to Byzantine consensus.

I just don't think it is worth it for you to go on a vendetta against Iota. But again to each his own. I decided it wasn't worth it for me.

When I state Ethereum failed to solve the fundamental issue for scripting on a block chain, then I am stating a fact. I make sure I fact check. Upthread I hadn't fact checked Iota's signature scheme and so I was in error on the issue of quantum resistance.

Arguing that quantum resistance is not a feature that some people are interested in, is like arguing that females shouldn't like Beanie Babies. People like what they like. I am also interested in quantum resistance, as is the venerable Daniel Bernstein.

[Come-from-Beyond]

However you twist your terms of conditions even EU based law enforcement (your jurisdiction) will find that your money collecting party in fact is the subject of financial regulations.

The rest of your post is the used care salesman pitch, which I understand you need very much to deliver before the P&D start. Lets be clear, however you wish that would be the case, you are not in the category of the start-ups that indeed deliver disruptive technologies. Your "business" that lures money from idiots is a fucking crypto currency money collecting party and it has nothing to do with disruptive start-ups like Mongodb, Spacex, SugarCRM, Evrythng just to mention a few came to my mind from different sectors, however you would like to compare yourself the disruptive start-ups that challenge Google and Microsoft. If you truly believe your own bollocks - which I doubt very much you do - then get a reality check boy, you need it.

This post has been looking good until you added words like "fucking" and ruined this impression. Do you like BDSM by any chance? Looks like you do, it's the only thing that explains your behavior.

[Come-from-Beyond]

AltcoinUK is doing what he thinks is right and ethical.

Posting blatant lies that he can't even fake a proof of? Not sure "ethical" suits here.

[TPTB_need_war]

AltcoinUK is doing what he thinks is right and ethical.

Posting blatant lies that he can't even fake a proof of? Not sure "ethical" suits here.

He thinks JINN is a scam. Thus he thinks what he is doing is ethical. And again, yes I have explained that he needs to not overstep and commit errors, especially when making such a serious accusation.

And yes the venom doesn't help make the case. He is incited when you attack his reputation (but he attacked yours so you have a right to respond). It is a vicious cycle. And he needs to understand this.

[altcoinUK]

AltcoinUK, I suggest you focus on the message of why you think JINN labs is so unrealistic. And I also think you can refer to my decentralization thread for why (I think) Iota leads to centralization. Those seem to be strong arguments in your favor.

I think if you continue to assert the scam accusation and attack every aspect of Iota as entirely worthless, then you will lose credibility even IF you end up being correct about its ultimate failure. Those arguments appear to readers as vindictive.

But of course I can't tell you what to do. And perhaps I am mistaken about perceptions (but I doubt it).

I support your ethics and I also support your sober analysis of potential markets. I am just hoping you don't let CfB's ribbing incite you to turn it into a vendetta, which will then lower your own credibility. I know it is difficult in the heat of the moment, but try to think about that you can't protect every speculator from everything nor is that your role.

Balance.

I am of course not saying you do, just to explain my motives, IMHO we can't say a P&D scam can be justified, just because something useful will be produced during the P&D scam. It is like one would argue that Auschwitz was not all evil because some medical research was derived from the experiments of those Nazis. No, Auschwitz and the Holocaust was evil, even if some innovation was produced there. IMHO there are clear boundaries exist for moral and ethics.

The bottom line is we need ethical projects - like hopefully yours will be - to take the decentralized crypto currency idea to the mass, and money collecting, P&D operations like JINN and IOTA are hurtful for the decentralized crypto currency idea.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Thus he thinks what he is doing is ethical.

I see your point, his only fault is that he uses dirty tricks instead of doing it as a knight in shining armor.

Sad, but his reputation is ruined to degree where not a single project will accept him to a serious position, it would be a PR disaster.

[TPTB_need_war]

I have nothing more to say. I hope all parties can make sure they fact check everything.

[altcoinUK]

AltcoinUK please be aware that CfB is taking advantage of your weaknesses, which is that you get inflamed and then you overstep from good/strong arguments to weaker or even unsupported/incorrect arguments.

To be honest, and I am sure you can see that, I couldn't give a monkey about what a Belarusian serial scammer think or say about me. The readers of this thread, the potential buyer of their coin (which is of course according to David not a coin and not even and investment product, so WTF will be traded on the exchanges is an other matter), so the target audience of the IOTA P&D will read the trolling of the Belarusian in this thread, they will read my arguments why I think IOTA is a scam, the readers will read your well balanced opinion, they witness the shilling and cheerleading of sockpuppets and they will decide whether they are interested to contribute to that wonderful process or not.

As I am sure it came cross by now that I believe money collecting parties and P&D operations such as IOTA are cancer in crypto. If the public see that differently so be it. I am very disappointed where we are after 6 years of hard work with decentralized crypto currency which supposed to be a libertarian concept that changes the society, but in fact it is the play ground of money grabber software developers like this Belarusian. That's not right and the least we can do to warn the public about scams like Moolah, Bitbay or Banxshare was and IOTA is.  

[LiQio]

AltcoinUK please be aware that CfB is taking advantage of your weaknesses, which is that you get inflamed and then you overstep from good/strong arguments to weaker or even unsupported/incorrect arguments.

To be honest, and I am sure you can see that, I couldn't give a monkey about what a Belarusian serial scammer think or say about me. The readers of this thread, the potential buyer of their coin (which is of course according to David not a coin and not even and investment product, so WTF will be traded on the exchanges is an other matter), so the target audience of the IOTA P&D will read the trolling of the Belarusian in this thread, they will read my arguments why I think IOTA is a scam, the readers will read your well balanced opinion, they witness the shilling and cheerleading of sockpuppets and they will decide whether they are interested to contribute to that wonderful process or not.

As I am sure it came cross by now that I believe money collecting parties and P&D operations such as IOTA are cancer in crypto. If the public see that differently so be it. I am very disappointed where we are after 6 years of hard work with decentralized crypto currency which supposed to be a libertarian concept that changes the society, but in fact it is the play ground of money grabber software developers like this Belarusian. That's not right and the least we can do to warn the public about scams like Moolah, Bitbay or Banxshare was and IOTA is.  

We can also eliminate psychology from the list of your possible talents.
What else do you have to offer?

[altcoinUK]

Arguing that quantum resistance is not a feature that some people are interested in, is like arguing that females shouldn't like Beanie Babies. People like what they like. I am also interested in quantum resistance, as is the venerable Daniel Bernstein.

I never argued that people are not interested in quantum resistance nor I argued they should not be interested. Of course it is an exciting and important academic subject. What I said was, a business plan which USP is a quantum resistant digital currency and the monetization of such quantum resistant digital currency is a delusion. It sounds wonderful in this scam driven microcosms and it is a perfect wrap for a money collecting operation, but there is no monetization route for a quantum resistant digital currency at this moment in time. But you know that better than I do and anybody else does here.
 

[TPTB_need_war]

...but there is no monetization route for a quantum resistant digital currency at this moment in time.
 

Strong point. Not absolute, but strong IMO.

[LiQio]

Arguing that quantum resistance is not a feature that some people are interested in, is like arguing that females shouldn't like Beanie Babies. People like what they like. I am also interested in quantum resistance, as is the venerable Daniel Bernstein.

I never argued that people are not interested in quantum resistance nor I argued they should not be interested. Of course it is an exciting and important academic subject. What I said was, a business plan which USP is a quantum resistant digital currency and the monetization of such quantum resistant digital currency is a delusion. It sounds wonderful in this scam driven microcosms and it is a perfect wrap for a money collecting operation, but there is no monetization route for a quantum resistant digital currency at this moment in time. But you know that better than I do and anybody else does here.
 

I was just gonna say that you need to improve your skills a lot, but obviously AnonyMint took the bait.

[Come-from-Beyond]

We can also eliminate psychology from the list of your possible talents.
What else do you have to offer?

Obviously, reality denial is his strongest talent, it explains everything, even those lies.

[runall]

Quantum computers are a big problem to the existence of bitcoin and other altcoin.

No, they are not a big problem at all.

In fact that is only a subject of academic papers at this moment in time and cannot be a building stone of a viable start-up business that by definition needs to generate revenue. Again, a good looking package to lure out money from idiots, but in fact it is absurd to say (i.e scam) that you will build a viable business by delivering a quantum safe digital currency. In reality, even Bitcoin failed to find its way to the mass, so the quantum computers are the smallest problems of decentralized digital currency.
 
To use an analogy so you would understand how ridiculous is to build a business by addressing the Quantum computers problem, it is like, that I would present a business plan which ask investment to build an extra 50,000 retirement homes because sometimes later, we don't know when but at some point in the future the life expectancy will be 110 years and therefore presumably we will need a lot more retirement homes.

Go and ask investment from a technology angel investor or venture capitalist for a quantum safe digital currency. You will see the reaction. Such absurd unique selling point (USP) can be presented only in this irrational microcosmos where wannabe rich idiots give their 1-2 BTC "investments" for all kind of nonsenses.

Quantum computers already exist, technology development is accelerating exponentially and software development should go ahead of the curve. Idiots - these are the shit-investors who, like ostriches with noggin in the sand not to notice the obvious

--- 50,000 retirement homes ---

strange analogy, but the fact is that right now in Europe do not have enough nursing homes, and they are terribly expensive. It is a fact.

--- Go and ask investment from a technology angel investor or venture capitalist for a quantum safe digital currency. ---

Based on this logic one would normally use and now 286 computer and Windows 3.0 and does not afraid of attacks from the network. It would be an idiot who does not believe in facts.