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Author Topic: Proof that God exists  (Read 61846 times)
mrflibblehat
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February 28, 2016, 01:37:01 PM
 #921

According to Jesus, not eveyone gets in the grace of God,
Mark 3:29
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation"

Can someone explain this bit? The blasphemer "hath never forgiveness" but he is only "in danger of eternal damnation".

If you're never forgiven, how can you not be eternally damned? If you're only "in danger of eternal damnation", then what can you do to get to heaven without being forgiven?


Heres more,

Matthew 12:32
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Luke 12:10
"And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."

I still don't follow you can never be forgiven but at the same time only possibly be eternally damned? Being in danger of being hit by a bus is not the same as being hit by a bus.
The first quote was written by Mark, who has a different writing style than Luke or Matthew. Being in danger doesnt necessarily mean there's a way to avoid said danger,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/danger
"Danger is the general word for liability to all kinds of injury or evil consequences, either near at hand and certain, or remote and doubtful"

Thanks, I didn't know that meaning of "danger".  I'd always just thought it meant "possible negative consequence".


Religious people redefine laws of physics, vocabulary and logic in order to make sense of the Bible  Wink
Whatever it takes to hide the truth.

The real definition is here.  No mention of evil  Wink

dan·ger
ˈdānjər/
noun
noun: danger

    the possibility of suffering harm or injury.
    "his life was in danger"
    synonyms:   peril, hazard, risk, jeopardy; More
    riskiness, precariousness, uncertainty, instability, insecurity
    "an element of danger"
    antonyms:   safety
        a person or thing that is likely to cause harm or injury.
        plural noun: dangers
        "infertile soils where drought is a danger"
        synonyms:   menace, hazard, threat, risk; More
        informal death trap, widow-maker
        "that car is a danger on the roads"
        the possibility of something unwelcome or unpleasant.
        "there was no danger of the champagne running out"
        synonyms:   possibility, chance, risk, probability, likelihood, fear, prospect
        "a serious danger of fire"

Source:
-------
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/danger
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=D-rRVqDcLcGC8Qe8173wDA#q=danger+definition


PS. that dictionary.reference.com site is for religious Lingua franca.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca


You fucking moron, check the reference I provide and stick it up your ass

I knew a real Christian would come out sooner rather than later.

I provided real, not Christian dictionary to counter your abvious attempt to change the meaning of the English language.




Well that must've hurt. It did, didn't it? Smiley
Okay here asshole, by your quote:

        "a person or thing that is likely to cause harm or injury."

Eat a dick

You do realize you're talking to two people not one, do you?  Cheesy

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February 28, 2016, 02:03:31 PM
 #922

God and all religions are just concepts of human mind.
I basically mean by that: humans created a god, in their own mind to give meaning to their lives.
But still, it does not exist and human lives worth none. Everyone will die, everyone will lose all they got.
World is such small place in whole universe, human was always egocentric but meaningless and worthless.

Interesting thinking but when we are talking about God we are talking about Creator first, creator of whole universe.
Science believe that the universe was created in a series of accidental and fortunate circumstances, but it can't prove it.
Religion believe that Universe is created by God but also can't prove it (because God is above time and space, he created it).
So, either we are egocentric (meaningless and worthless) or center of universe (as God's representatives), who can know for sure? Smiley
I personally believe in second option.



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mrflibblehat
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February 28, 2016, 02:26:54 PM
 #923

God and all religions are just concepts of human mind.
I basically mean by that: humans created a god, in their own mind to give meaning to their lives.
But still, it does not exist and human lives worth none. Everyone will die, everyone will lose all they got.
World is such small place in whole universe, human was always egocentric but meaningless and worthless.

Interesting thinking but when we are talking about God we are talking about Creator first, creator of whole universe.
Science believe that the universe was created in a series of accidental and fortunate circumstances, but it can't prove it.
Religion believe that Universe is created by God but also can't prove it (because God is above time and space, he created it).
So, either we are egocentric (meaningless and worthless) or center of universe (as God's representatives), who can know for sure? Smiley
I personally believe in second option.


Science can't prove it yet. Think of all the discoveries, and how much we've learned about the universe. And we will find all of its secrets.
This reminds me of the story of the tower of Babylon. Why did God stop people's ability to understand each other? We HE afraid that we'd reach His height?
Also, we can't be the center of the universe - that much is proved. We're not even the center of this galaxy.

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February 28, 2016, 02:30:08 PM
 #924

GOD exist, proof is not required, for as long as you believe in GOD,

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February 28, 2016, 02:31:08 PM
 #925

GOD exist, proof is not required, for as long as you believe in GOD,

Yes, also Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy were mentioned here. Thank you.

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February 28, 2016, 04:45:31 PM
 #926

Quote
There are amongst us a group of people who believe that while there is no proof that God exists, there also is no proof that He doesn't exist.

Non-existence does not need a proof, you morons. It is the position by default. If you claim that some shit exists, you have to provide the proof. You don't have the proof? Then fuck off.


What's the matter? somebody hurt your itty bitty feelings?

Look at all the things that are in existence around us and everywhere. Then prove that non-existence is the norm by default. Of course, the closest you can come to that is by committing suicide, but then you won't be able to see that it is proven to anyone.

Cool

You have a proof of fucking god? No? Fuck off.

.
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February 28, 2016, 04:47:11 PM
 #927

Quote
There are amongst us a group of people who believe that while there is no proof that God exists, there also is no proof that He doesn't exist.

Non-existence does not need a proof, you morons. It is the position by default. If you claim that some shit exists, you have to provide the proof. You don't have the proof? Then fuck off.


What's the matter? somebody hurt your itty bitty feelings?

Look at all the things that are in existence around us and everywhere. Then prove that non-existence is the norm by default. Of course, the closest you can come to that is by committing suicide, but then you won't be able to see that it is proven to anyone.

Cool

You have a proof of fucking god? No? Fuck off.


Please don't start him again with the entropy and all that.

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February 28, 2016, 11:09:25 PM
 #928

Quote
There are amongst us a group of people who believe that while there is no proof that God exists, there also is no proof that He doesn't exist.

Non-existence does not need a proof, you morons. It is the position by default. If you claim that some shit exists, you have to provide the proof. You don't have the proof? Then fuck off.


What's the matter? somebody hurt your itty bitty feelings?

Look at all the things that are in existence around us and everywhere. Then prove that non-existence is the norm by default. Of course, the closest you can come to that is by committing suicide, but then you won't be able to see that it is proven to anyone.

Cool

You have a proof of fucking god? No? Fuck off.


No, science has it. Can't help it if you don't want to look or understand.    Cool

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February 29, 2016, 01:33:53 AM
 #929

Quote
There are amongst us a group of people who believe that while there is no proof that God exists, there also is no proof that He doesn't exist.

Non-existence does not need a proof, you morons. It is the position by default. If you claim that some shit exists, you have to provide the proof. You don't have the proof? Then fuck off.


What's the matter? somebody hurt your itty bitty feelings?

Look at all the things that are in existence around us and everywhere. Then prove that non-existence is the norm by default. Of course, the closest you can come to that is by committing suicide, but then you won't be able to see that it is proven to anyone.

Cool

You have a proof of fucking god? No? Fuck off.

YVV  Thanks for filling me up with laughter Cheesy STRAIGHT TO THE POINT Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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February 29, 2016, 03:49:54 AM
 #930

Any proof of existence of anything relies on prior assumptions, the seeming least of all is that we exist such that we can observe.
There is no definitive proof of anything that is not reliant on our subjective reality.

Scientific objectivity relies on this too, it cannot exist without our subjective acceptance. Any claims that reality exists independent of us is unprovable.

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February 29, 2016, 04:39:08 AM
 #931

Any proof of existence of anything relies on prior assumptions, the seeming least of all is that we exist such that we can observe.
There is no definitive proof of anything that is not reliant on our subjective reality.

Scientific objectivity relies on this too, it cannot exist without our subjective acceptance. Any claims that reality exists independent of us is unprovable.

I wonder what the Baysian prior distribution for probability of a god is?


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February 29, 2016, 08:50:37 AM
 #932

Universe is not a perfect system.  It is actually very violent and very hostile to life.
How does an imperfect being such as a human begin to understand the definition of perfection? How could a mortal imagine infinity? God is everything man cannot be, yet man strives to mould himself in the likeness of God, to become like and greater than the most high. Those who have placed themselves above God deny the existence thereof, just as the mighty Satan defied God, so shall men who worship themselves be cut off from his kingdom.


And I wouldn't say 'violent towards life', more like 'chaotic'.

Man doesn't have to understand the definition of perfection. Just have (and that is easy to do) to understand and see imperfection all around us.

All you gotta do is look at all the imperfection around to see that even imperfection acts perfectly. Of course, if it didn't exist, then you could say that it didn't act at all.

Cool

So the death of my grand father by cancer was a "perfect imperfection" that's what you're telling me?

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February 29, 2016, 08:53:09 AM
 #933

Any proof of existence of anything relies on prior assumptions, the seeming least of all is that we exist such that we can observe.
There is no definitive proof of anything that is not reliant on our subjective reality.

Scientific objectivity relies on this too, it cannot exist without our subjective acceptance. Any claims that reality exists independent of us is unprovable.

Yeah and what? We don't ask for absolute proof of God, of course it's impossible to get. We ask for a logical proof based on logical assumptions...

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BADecker
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February 29, 2016, 11:14:00 AM
 #934

Universe is not a perfect system.  It is actually very violent and very hostile to life.
How does an imperfect being such as a human begin to understand the definition of perfection? How could a mortal imagine infinity? God is everything man cannot be, yet man strives to mould himself in the likeness of God, to become like and greater than the most high. Those who have placed themselves above God deny the existence thereof, just as the mighty Satan defied God, so shall men who worship themselves be cut off from his kingdom.


And I wouldn't say 'violent towards life', more like 'chaotic'.

Man doesn't have to understand the definition of perfection. Just have (and that is easy to do) to understand and see imperfection all around us.

All you gotta do is look at all the imperfection around to see that even imperfection acts perfectly. Of course, if it didn't exist, then you could say that it didn't act at all.

Cool

So the death of my grand father by cancer was a "perfect imperfection" that's what you're telling me?

I'm not necessarily telling you anything.

What part of your grandfather's death by cancer operated outside of the laws of nature? None of it. All the laws of nature acted perfectly.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
organofcorti
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February 29, 2016, 11:19:06 AM
 #935

Universe is not a perfect system.  It is actually very violent and very hostile to life.
How does an imperfect being such as a human begin to understand the definition of perfection? How could a mortal imagine infinity? God is everything man cannot be, yet man strives to mould himself in the likeness of God, to become like and greater than the most high. Those who have placed themselves above God deny the existence thereof, just as the mighty Satan defied God, so shall men who worship themselves be cut off from his kingdom.


And I wouldn't say 'violent towards life', more like 'chaotic'.

Man doesn't have to understand the definition of perfection. Just have (and that is easy to do) to understand and see imperfection all around us.

All you gotta do is look at all the imperfection around to see that even imperfection acts perfectly. Of course, if it didn't exist, then you could say that it didn't act at all.

Cool

So the death of my grand father by cancer was a "perfect imperfection" that's what you're telling me?

I'm not necessarily telling you anything.

What part of your grandfather's death by cancer operated outside of the laws of nature? None of it. All the laws of nature acted perfectly.

Cool

If all laws of nature acted perfectly and god was not responsible for them what is the need for a god? And if god is responsible, then I refer you to valta4065's comment.

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BADecker
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February 29, 2016, 11:20:38 AM
 #936

Any proof of existence of anything relies on prior assumptions, the seeming least of all is that we exist such that we can observe.
There is no definitive proof of anything that is not reliant on our subjective reality.

Scientific objectivity relies on this too, it cannot exist without our subjective acceptance. Any claims that reality exists independent of us is unprovable.

Yeah and what? We don't ask for absolute proof of God, of course it's impossible to get. We ask for a logical proof based on logical assumptions...

Except that cause and effect are upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. And this means that everything is pre-programmed to exist the way it does. And since the laws of entropy show us that everything is dispersing and diffusing, this means that complexity is diminishing. All of this means that whoever programmed the universe into being by cause and effect, is way more intelligent than people are... way more intelligent beyond understanding. This Intelligence (Which, obviously, is at least somewhat alien to us) fits our dictionary definitions of "God."

Science and logic prove that God exists, even if you don't like it.

Cool

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BADecker
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February 29, 2016, 11:35:54 AM
 #937

Universe is not a perfect system.  It is actually very violent and very hostile to life.
How does an imperfect being such as a human begin to understand the definition of perfection? How could a mortal imagine infinity? God is everything man cannot be, yet man strives to mould himself in the likeness of God, to become like and greater than the most high. Those who have placed themselves above God deny the existence thereof, just as the mighty Satan defied God, so shall men who worship themselves be cut off from his kingdom.


And I wouldn't say 'violent towards life', more like 'chaotic'.

Man doesn't have to understand the definition of perfection. Just have (and that is easy to do) to understand and see imperfection all around us.

All you gotta do is look at all the imperfection around to see that even imperfection acts perfectly. Of course, if it didn't exist, then you could say that it didn't act at all.

Cool

So the death of my grand father by cancer was a "perfect imperfection" that's what you're telling me?

I'm not necessarily telling you anything.

What part of your grandfather's death by cancer operated outside of the laws of nature? None of it. All the laws of nature acted perfectly.

Cool

If all laws of nature acted perfectly and god was not responsible for them what is the need for a god? And if god is responsible, then I refer you to valta4065's comment.

The laws of nature act perfectly BECAUSE God is responsible for them. Here's how it worked and works yet today.

God made the laws of nature and set everything into being.

Among the laws of nature existed the ability of mankind to freely act against God, which, if mankind did it, would destroy nature and the universe... built right into the laws of nature.

Mankind DID turn against God, and nature was in the process of being destroyed almost instantly.

God didn't make nature and people for nothing. He had purpose. Part of the purpose was that people were and are the objects of God's love. Nature was part of God's gifts to us.

God realized that people didn't understand how foolish and stupid they were being by turning against Him, so He stopped the destruction by sending His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for all people for turning against God. The work that Jesus did on the cross, actually upheld the universe and the laws of nature right from the beginning times when mankind turned against God.

God also gave mankind the thing that they asked for by their turning against God. This thing is death, and all the pains and problems that people have in life which culminate in death.

All of it operates perfectly, in a perfect nature, according to perfect natural laws. God is perfectly giving people the thing the formally asked for > death. God is giving people the thing that they thought they were asking for > better life. God is preparing a better life for those who are not against Him, in the coming resurrection.

Wake up and turn to God so that you are not permanently destroyed by your adamant obstinance in remaining against God.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
organofcorti
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February 29, 2016, 12:37:22 PM
 #938

Universe is not a perfect system.  It is actually very violent and very hostile to life.
How does an imperfect being such as a human begin to understand the definition of perfection? How could a mortal imagine infinity? God is everything man cannot be, yet man strives to mould himself in the likeness of God, to become like and greater than the most high. Those who have placed themselves above God deny the existence thereof, just as the mighty Satan defied God, so shall men who worship themselves be cut off from his kingdom.


And I wouldn't say 'violent towards life', more like 'chaotic'.

Man doesn't have to understand the definition of perfection. Just have (and that is easy to do) to understand and see imperfection all around us.

All you gotta do is look at all the imperfection around to see that even imperfection acts perfectly. Of course, if it didn't exist, then you could say that it didn't act at all.

Cool

So the death of my grand father by cancer was a "perfect imperfection" that's what you're telling me?

I'm not necessarily telling you anything.

What part of your grandfather's death by cancer operated outside of the laws of nature? None of it. All the laws of nature acted perfectly.

Cool

If all laws of nature acted perfectly and god was not responsible for them what is the need for a god? And if god is responsible, then I refer you to valta4065's comment.

The laws of nature act perfectly BECAUSE God is responsible for them. Here's how it worked and works yet today.

God made the laws of nature and set everything into being.

Among the laws of nature existed the ability of mankind to freely act against God, which, if mankind did it, would destroy nature and the universe... built right into the laws of nature.

Mankind DID turn against God, and nature was in the process of being destroyed almost instantly.

God didn't make nature and people for nothing. He had purpose. Part of the purpose was that people were and are the objects of God's love. Nature was part of God's gifts to us.

God realized that people didn't understand how foolish and stupid they were being by turning against Him, so He stopped the destruction by sending His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for all people for turning against God. The work that Jesus did on the cross, actually upheld the universe and the laws of nature right from the beginning times when mankind turned against God.

God also gave mankind the thing that they asked for by their turning against God. This thing is death, and all the pains and problems that people have in life which culminate in death.

All of it operates perfectly, in a perfect nature, according to perfect natural laws. God is perfectly giving people the thing the formally asked for > death. God is giving people the thing that they thought they were asking for > better life. God is preparing a better life for those who are not against Him, in the coming resurrection.

Wake up and turn to God so that you are not permanently destroyed by your adamant obstinance in remaining against God.

Cool

So, god is responsible, then.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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af_newbie
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February 29, 2016, 01:05:46 PM
 #939

Universe is not a perfect system.  It is actually very violent and very hostile to life.
How does an imperfect being such as a human begin to understand the definition of perfection? How could a mortal imagine infinity? God is everything man cannot be, yet man strives to mould himself in the likeness of God, to become like and greater than the most high. Those who have placed themselves above God deny the existence thereof, just as the mighty Satan defied God, so shall men who worship themselves be cut off from his kingdom.


And I wouldn't say 'violent towards life', more like 'chaotic'.

Man doesn't have to understand the definition of perfection. Just have (and that is easy to do) to understand and see imperfection all around us.

All you gotta do is look at all the imperfection around to see that even imperfection acts perfectly. Of course, if it didn't exist, then you could say that it didn't act at all.

Cool

So the death of my grand father by cancer was a "perfect imperfection" that's what you're telling me?

I'm not necessarily telling you anything.

What part of your grandfather's death by cancer operated outside of the laws of nature? None of it. All the laws of nature acted perfectly.

Cool

If all laws of nature acted perfectly and god was not responsible for them what is the need for a god? And if god is responsible, then I refer you to valta4065's comment.

The laws of nature act perfectly BECAUSE God is responsible for them. Here's how it worked and works yet today.

God made the laws of nature and set everything into being.

Among the laws of nature existed the ability of mankind to freely act against God, which, if mankind did it, would destroy nature and the universe... built right into the laws of nature.

Mankind DID turn against God, and nature was in the process of being destroyed almost instantly.

God didn't make nature and people for nothing. He had purpose. Part of the purpose was that people were and are the objects of God's love. Nature was part of God's gifts to us.

God realized that people didn't understand how foolish and stupid they were being by turning against Him, so He stopped the destruction by sending His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for all people for turning against God. The work that Jesus did on the cross, actually upheld the universe and the laws of nature right from the beginning times when mankind turned against God.

God also gave mankind the thing that they asked for by their turning against God. This thing is death, and all the pains and problems that people have in life which culminate in death.

All of it operates perfectly, in a perfect nature, according to perfect natural laws. God is perfectly giving people the thing the formally asked for > death. God is giving people the thing that they thought they were asking for > better life. God is preparing a better life for those who are not against Him, in the coming resurrection.

Wake up and turn to God so that you are not permanently destroyed by your adamant obstinance in remaining against God.

Cool

So, god is responsible, then.

Bible should start with "God created Heaven, Earth and Hell".  Somehow they skipped that part.

He created Hell to torment you for eternity, but he loves you Wink

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February 29, 2016, 02:13:01 PM
 #940

Universe is not a perfect system.  It is actually very violent and very hostile to life.
How does an imperfect being such as a human begin to understand the definition of perfection? How could a mortal imagine infinity? God is everything man cannot be, yet man strives to mould himself in the likeness of God, to become like and greater than the most high. Those who have placed themselves above God deny the existence thereof, just as the mighty Satan defied God, so shall men who worship themselves be cut off from his kingdom.


And I wouldn't say 'violent towards life', more like 'chaotic'.

Man doesn't have to understand the definition of perfection. Just have (and that is easy to do) to understand and see imperfection all around us.

All you gotta do is look at all the imperfection around to see that even imperfection acts perfectly. Of course, if it didn't exist, then you could say that it didn't act at all.

Cool

So the death of my grand father by cancer was a "perfect imperfection" that's what you're telling me?

I'm not necessarily telling you anything.

What part of your grandfather's death by cancer operated outside of the laws of nature? None of it. All the laws of nature acted perfectly.

Cool

If all laws of nature acted perfectly and god was not responsible for them what is the need for a god? And if god is responsible, then I refer you to valta4065's comment.

The laws of nature act perfectly BECAUSE God is responsible for them. Here's how it worked and works yet today.

God made the laws of nature and set everything into being.

Among the laws of nature existed the ability of mankind to freely act against God, which, if mankind did it, would destroy nature and the universe... built right into the laws of nature.

Mankind DID turn against God, and nature was in the process of being destroyed almost instantly.

God didn't make nature and people for nothing. He had purpose. Part of the purpose was that people were and are the objects of God's love. Nature was part of God's gifts to us.

God realized that people didn't understand how foolish and stupid they were being by turning against Him, so He stopped the destruction by sending His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for all people for turning against God. The work that Jesus did on the cross, actually upheld the universe and the laws of nature right from the beginning times when mankind turned against God.

God also gave mankind the thing that they asked for by their turning against God. This thing is death, and all the pains and problems that people have in life which culminate in death.

All of it operates perfectly, in a perfect nature, according to perfect natural laws. God is perfectly giving people the thing the formally asked for > death. God is giving people the thing that they thought they were asking for > better life. God is preparing a better life for those who are not against Him, in the coming resurrection.

Wake up and turn to God so that you are not permanently destroyed by your adamant obstinance in remaining against God.

Cool

So, god is responsible, then.

Bible should start with "God created Heaven, Earth and Hell".  Somehow they skipped that part.

He created Hell to torment you for eternity, but he loves you Wink



God is responsible for it all. Because having responsibility is so wonderful, He gave yours to you. Since you used your responsibility to reject God, He is giving you what you asked for... the ability to not have any responsibility for anything anymore.

But in case you change your mind, you have the ability to take responsibility again for a while... as long as your life exists. You can responsibly accept God and eternal life if you want.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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