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Author Topic: BTCKeno.com  (Read 2253 times)
f1gm3nt
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January 10, 2013, 11:13:41 PM
 #21

Pay tables have been updated, check out the about page for the most recent.

http://btckeno.com/about
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January 11, 2013, 12:41:55 AM
 #22

The update I'd like to see is any evidence you can actually pay out the bets on this paytable, as you've already admitted you can't and would be scrambling if anyone hit one of them.  When you're willing to take bets for these amounts that you don't have on hand, that's scammy to say the least.
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January 11, 2013, 01:29:23 AM
 #23

The update I'd like to see is any evidence you can actually pay out the bets on this paytable, as you've already admitted you can't and would be scrambling if anyone hit one of them.  When you're willing to take bets for these amounts that you don't have on hand, that's scammy to say the least.

How do you want me to prove this? The reason that the previous customer did not get paid in a timely fashion is because I made a choice not to keep a large amount on the server for security concerns. I could have made up some excuse, but instead I was honest and got that customer their money as fast as I could. Which was just sending more BTC to the server. If you want me to make an excuse I can, but I feel honesty is the best.

The bet in question is (which you are talking about) is http://btckeno.com/d79fd7a0c960705e958686764c30b789477d8a09ea677be63aa966aba3cc9a5e39f3f591e2890a016e88bd67b7b9d0fe28812e394eee314eb1aec75def099e1a and there is the bet txid and the payout txid on that page which you can find info https://blockchain.info/tx-index/42540538/87dbbb666e2e9899506efa283148dd73f1c66b2a74eb6cd809a38aa945f81fcf and https://blockchain.info/tx-index/42546202/372582f6929c4be3cd08013ad4ba1fe16be2d1ed8854bbfa4a423402885d0f40 with a time of ~25 minutes from bet to payout. I think that is more than plenty of time, if that's not acceptable, let me know and I will come up with a faster way to get payouts to customers.

I do realize that the community has been screwed in the past, and that this "new gambling site" has to prove that it's honest and that's one of the reasons I've published my github and personal web site urls. I know that means shit to most people, but in my opinion I think it shows I'm at least a little creditable. If you try hard enough, it's not hard to find out who am and where I am at. So what evidence do you purpose I show to everyone? I want this site to be a success, so let me know what you need.
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January 11, 2013, 02:04:32 AM
 #24

The update I'd like to see is any evidence you can actually pay out the bets on this paytable, as you've already admitted you can't and would be scrambling if anyone hit one of them.  When you're willing to take bets for these amounts that you don't have on hand, that's scammy to say the least.

How do you want me to prove this? The reason that the previous customer did not get paid in a timely fashion is because I made a choice not to keep a large amount on the server for security concerns. I could have made up some excuse, but instead I was honest and got that customer their money as fast as I could. Which was just sending more BTC to the server. If you want me to make an excuse I can, but I feel honesty is the best.

The bet in question is (which you are talking about) is http://btckeno.com/d79fd7a0c960705e958686764c30b789477d8a09ea677be63aa966aba3cc9a5e39f3f591e2890a016e88bd67b7b9d0fe28812e394eee314eb1aec75def099e1a and there is the bet txid and the payout txid on that page which you can find info https://blockchain.info/tx-index/42540538/87dbbb666e2e9899506efa283148dd73f1c66b2a74eb6cd809a38aa945f81fcf and https://blockchain.info/tx-index/42546202/372582f6929c4be3cd08013ad4ba1fe16be2d1ed8854bbfa4a423402885d0f40 with a time of ~25 minutes from bet to payout. I think that is more than plenty of time, if that's not acceptable, let me know and I will come up with a faster way to get payouts to customers.

I do realize that the community has been screwed in the past, and that this "new gambling site" has to prove that it's honest and that's one of the reasons I've published my github and personal web site urls. I know that means shit to most people, but in my opinion I think it shows I'm at least a little creditable. If you try hard enough, it's not hard to find out who am and where I am at. So what evidence do you purpose I show to everyone? I want this site to be a success, so let me know what you need.

FYI the bet I placed earlier is still at 5 confirms for some reason, and I can't see what number satoshi picked.

Is this game provably fair?
f1gm3nt
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January 11, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
 #25

FYI the bet I placed earlier is still at 5 confirms for some reason, and I can't see what number satoshi picked.

Is this game provably fair?

Shoot me the url and I will look into it, when I updated the confirmations from 6 to 1, there are a few places where I missed the checks on that page. I will check it out for you.
f1gm3nt
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January 11, 2013, 02:14:30 AM
 #26

Is this game provably fair?

That's a good question and one I'm trying to figure out. I can post you the code I am using as a random number generator, other than that I'm not sure what else I can do. I am working on a stats page that will list wins/losses and the amounts. If someone wanted to scrap that data and parse it, they could see if there was a statistical error that should not be there. However there is not yet enough data.
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January 11, 2013, 02:15:51 AM
 #27

Do it like BTCMultiplier. If you select the number 1 and 2, there's one address and just one address. Winnings are sent back to the address it came from. Have a daily secret, publish a hash of them in advance, and then hash secret + txid. Get the first few bytes, use that to determine what numbers satoshi picked.

f1gm3nt
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January 11, 2013, 02:26:25 AM
 #28

Do it like BTCMultiplier. If you select the number 1 and 2, there's one address and just one address. Winnings are sent back to the address it came from. Have a daily secret, publish a hash of them in advance, and then hash secret + txid. Get the first few bytes, use that to determine what numbers satoshi picked.

The issue is I don't want to send it back to the address that sent the bet. I'd like the user to put in the address that they want the payout sent to. As of right now here's more or less the flow.

User comes to site, submits numbers and an address to send payout.
Bet is received and the satoshi picks are selected and then counts what it matched
Once bet has been confirmed, payout is sent to the payout address

If anyone has suggestions or can point me to more resources, I'd be more than happy to set something up. BTW I like how BTCMultiplier has a list of bets on their front page. I want to add something similar. I'll have more time Friday evening to push updates.

Thanks
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January 11, 2013, 02:32:42 AM
 #29

Do it like BTCMultiplier. If you select the number 1 and 2, there's one address and just one address. Winnings are sent back to the address it came from. Have a daily secret, publish a hash of them in advance, and then hash secret + txid. Get the first few bytes, use that to determine what numbers satoshi picked.

The issue is I don't want to send it back to the address that sent the bet. I'd like the user to put in the address that they want the payout sent to. As of right now here's more or less the flow.

User comes to site, submits numbers and an address to send payout.
Bet is received and the satoshi picks are selected and then counts what it matched
Once bet has been confirmed, payout is sent to the payout address

If anyone has suggestions or can point me to more resources, I'd be more than happy to set something up. BTW I like how BTCMultiplier has a list of bets on their front page. I want to add something similar. I'll have more time Friday evening to push updates.

Thanks
OK, to make it provably fair then:

$serverSecret = hash("sha256", rand());
$serverSecretHash = hash($serverSecret);
//store serverSecret somewhere
echo $serverSecretHash;

function process_keno($tx){
$result = hash("sha256", $serverSecret . $tx['txid']);
$dec = hexdec($result);
mt_srand($dec);
$generated = [];
for($i = 0; $i < 20; $i++){
$num = mt_rand(1,80);
$generated[] = $num;
}
return $num;
}

Anyone (with a copy of PHP) will be able to verify that you are generating the correct results, but they will not be able to predict the results ahead of time.
TradeFortress 🏕
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January 11, 2013, 02:36:26 AM
 #30

For more info, go to satoshiDICE and click on the Verification tab (or type in "javascript:$('.verificationbox').slideToggle();" in the address bar on Chrome), see BitZino's https://bitzino.com/about/fair, http://btcmultiplier.com/keys.php?l=en
f1gm3nt
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January 11, 2013, 02:57:40 AM
 #31

$serverSecret = hash("sha256", rand());
$serverSecretHash = hash($serverSecret);
//store serverSecret somewhere
echo $serverSecretHash;

function process_keno($tx){
$result = hash("sha256", $serverSecret . $tx['txid']);
$dec = hexdec($result);
mt_srand($dec);
$generated = [];
for($i = 0; $i < 20; $i++){
$num = mt_rand(1,80);
$generated[] = $num;
}
return $num;
}

The issue I see with that code is it pulls the 20 numbers with replacement. Needs to be without replacement Tongue The other issue is according to php.net's notes on mt_rand and rand, they do "not generate cryptographically secure values".

I get your point that it needs to be proven to be fair, and I'll figure out a way to make it so. I'll take this weekend to push up an update that is based off some of that code are create some scripts to show that it can be proven fair.

Thanks for the input
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January 11, 2013, 03:07:20 AM
 #32

I agree, you should not use any kind of random function to generate the game values -- there's plenty of entropy in just the txid+secret combination (the secret can be whatever length you want).  Besides, your users will need a deterministic way to prove to themselves that the game is fair -- just like the other sites.
f1gm3nt
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January 11, 2013, 04:26:23 AM
 #33

Got it, I'll make some updates over the weekend and do a deploy with an algo that uses the transaction id of the bet to generate 20 random numbers. Thanks guys, I'll get something awesome up and running soon.
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January 11, 2013, 07:56:08 AM
 #34

I agree, you should not use any kind of random function to generate the game values -- there's plenty of entropy in just the txid+secret combination (the secret can be whatever length you want).  Besides, your users will need a deterministic way to prove to themselves that the game is fair -- just like the other sites.
Yep, I just some some simple code for the purpose of illustrating what I'm saying  Smiley which is why I linked to more info.
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January 11, 2013, 04:47:13 PM
 #35

The update I'd like to see is any evidence you can actually pay out the bets on this paytable, as you've already admitted you can't and would be scrambling if anyone hit one of them.  When you're willing to take bets for these amounts that you don't have on hand, that's scammy to say the least.

How do you want me to prove this?

Are you serious that you don't know how to prove you have a certain amount of BTC?

Quote
The reason that the previous customer did not get paid in a timely fashion is because I made a choice not to keep a large amount on the server for security concerns. I could have made up some excuse, but instead I was honest and got that customer their money as fast as I could. Which was just sending more BTC to the server. If you want me to make an excuse I can, but I feel honesty is the best.

I agree, but you've basically admitted that you don't have enough BTC on hand to pay out some of the bets on your paytable, and admitted you don't even know how you'd acquire them if someone won them.  This was your previous response.

Thanks, but it concerns me that you had to scramble to find the 2 BTC to pay me!  What if someone won a few hundred BTC (your top jackpot is 10,000 BTC) ??

That is a good question. To be honest, I have no idea how I will come up with it, but I can will guarantee you that they will get paid.

It is a serious problem to take bets you can't cover.  Nobody legit does that.  It may just be cluelessness, but if not, it is frankly scammy.  If you are spreading gambling games, as the house, it is simply not kosher to ask people to accept your marker if they win.
f1gm3nt
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January 14, 2013, 12:14:40 AM
 #36

@darkmule
The issue with not having enough to payout has been resolved, I have updated some of the settings so that there will be more btc left on the server. If there was ever a need to have more I would send them to the server via my personal wallet. If that still will not cover the bet, I will just jump on mtgox and purchase enough to cover the bet.

I also agree that people shouldn't accept that "oh, you'll get paid whenever". I want my customers to be paid ASAP, ie as soon as I can confirm the bet.

I have a few updates that I will be pushing up soon, the updates are already on testnet.btckeno.com

Thanks
-Joshua
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January 14, 2013, 12:21:16 AM
 #37

UPDATES

* Payout table has been updated with decreased payout amounts (min bet is 0.01 BTC, max bet is 1 BTC, I'll update this later to allow larger bets)
* Bets can now be proven fair and details can be found on the about page along with a link to the code gist that is used. (This code will update at a later point in time to include a daily secret key, but for right now, it doesn't seem like I should require one)

If you have any questions/comments/suggestions, please feel free.

Thanks,
-Joshua
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January 14, 2013, 03:21:51 AM
 #38

UPDATES

* Payout table has been updated with decreased payout amounts (min bet is 0.01 BTC, max bet is 1 BTC, I'll update this later to allow larger bets)
* Bets can now be proven fair and details can be found on the about page along with a link to the code gist that is used. (This code will update at a later point in time to include a daily secret key, but for right now, it doesn't seem like I should require one)

If you have any questions/comments/suggestions, please feel free.

Thanks,
-Joshua

it doesn't seem like I should require one ??

Are you waiting to get your wallet plundered? Tongue
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January 14, 2013, 04:11:15 AM
Last edit: January 14, 2013, 01:15:16 PM by BRules
 #39

looks like you didn't check the probabilities.

you should adjust your payouts because:

if I play only one number, my expected return is 0.3 times the bet
if I play 13 numbers, my expected return is 0.986163742250369 times the bet

and your house edge is almost 30%, this is too much for a bitcoin gambling site.

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January 14, 2013, 05:05:38 AM
Last edit: January 14, 2013, 05:47:50 AM by TradeFortress
 #40

Please pay out the following:
http://btckeno.com/36267762729d1bfb625267931b7557abfba14f71365ece523924724ea6710f66c5827533c902394f1999aa8a462fd10c0fa6cf24cd71e36f26961ea08314bbcb
http://btckeno.com/91dfc6cff8ffed8924d4a108818b9a43f69fff2e9f6c7aa083f3e2c89a05ceaab4b1d1b32f66666291374f9e5d51441a2a9891520a482e40974b773f5b55c735

EDIT: I wonder how I screwed up a bet that should have won 2x :/
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