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Author Topic: ShadowCash is mathematically broken. I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero.  (Read 7787 times)
generalizethis
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February 12, 2016, 04:20:21 PM
 #21

Nobody has been able to use the aforementioned "faulty code" to deanonymize an actual transaction.

Don't hold your breath.

The people who would want to de-anonymize a transaction aren't going to tell you about it or benefit from a few hundred dollars in bounty money--it's more a question of, "if this coin makes it to where governments or corporations are willing to spy on it, how well does it hold up to their methods for doing so?"

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Gillette
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February 12, 2016, 04:24:11 PM
 #22

I dont think sdc guys are fit for Monero, they wouldnt have chosen a shit project in the first place.

They will choose zcash and never your guiless shit monero!

It`s strange that your shitty spammer Smooth has not yet come to post his spams in this thread  Grin
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February 12, 2016, 04:38:14 PM
 #23

NO PROOF!!! So very unprofessional. Couldn't lol harder. #trollteamMonero

https://blog.shadowproject.io/2016/02/12/deanonymize-shadow-nope/
https://decentralize.today/2016/02/12/broken-fud-monero-research-lab/


It's like people have their heads so far up the Monero troll team's ass that they can't even see a beacon of hope anymore. Shadow will save your cryptonote souls you lying heathen "developers".

Now you Monero devs are just all getting so desperate I want to make a jello mold of your jealousy just so I can eat some now and then stick it in the fridge then come back to it in a couple of hours and look at it and say "Nah, I don't think I could take one more bite because I am just so satisfied with the amount of Monero dev jealousy I have visually digested already. But maybe I could squeeze in the side dish of some Monero desperation..." Then I would probably eat all of it anyways because jello is maybe as delicious as Monero's developers' jealousy and desperation? Dare I say MORE delicious. No that's wrong Monero dev jealousy and desperation is the most delicious thing I have seen in a long time.

Monero is becoming the Donald Trump of crypto with less money and influence.


"the destruction of privacy widens the existing power imbalance between the ruling factions and everyone else" -- Julian Assange
Wheatclove
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February 12, 2016, 05:08:59 PM
 #24

Nobody has been able to use the aforementioned "faulty code" to deanonymize an actual transaction.

Don't hold your breath.

The people who would want to de-anonymize a transaction aren't going to tell you about it or benefit from a few hundred dollars in bounty money--it's more a question of, "if this coin makes it to where governments or corporations are willing to spy on it, how well does it hold up to their methods for doing so?"

I'm speaking about the dev team of Shadow who is currently testing the code and anyone in Monero who might be currently testing the code.
Levole11
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February 12, 2016, 05:14:43 PM
 #25

Nobody has been able to use the aforementioned "faulty code" to deanonymize an actual transaction.

Don't hold your breath.

The people who would want to de-anonymize a transaction aren't going to tell you about it or benefit from a few hundred dollars in bounty money--it's more a question of, "if this coin makes it to where governments or corporations are willing to spy on it, how well does it hold up to their methods for doing so?"

I'm speaking about the dev team of Shadow who is currently testing the code and anyone in Monero who might be currently testing the code.

Monero again, how suprising.. All they are capable of and are organised to do is, troll the competition.. fucking bytecoin forkers
iCEBREAKER
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February 12, 2016, 05:34:45 PM
 #26

I dont think sdc guys are fit for Monero, they wouldnt have chosen a shit project in the first place.

Let's be nice and assume at least some of the SDC guys are just ignorant, greedy children/teens/undergrads.

They can learn from this teachable moment, where SDC's bad crypto was broken by Monero's mysterious master of cryptography.

In the best cases, former ShadowCashers will be inspired to take a lifelong interest in better ascertaining what distinguishes legitimate coins from shit projects.

We have plenty of room for everyone on Monero Mountain.  As long they're not DashHoles.   Cheesy


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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erok
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February 12, 2016, 05:39:59 PM
 #27

I dont think sdc guys are fit for Monero, they wouldnt have chosen a shit project in the first place.

Let's be nice and assume at least some of the SDC guys are just ignorant, greedy children/teens/undergrads.

They can learn from this teachable moment, where SDC's bad crypto was broken by Monero's mysterious master of cryptography.

In the best cases, former ShadowCoiners will be inspired to take a lifelong interest in better ascertaining what distinguishes legitimate coins from shit projects.

We have plenty of room for everyone on Monero Mountain.  As long they're not DashHoles.   Cheesy
That first line: Is incredibly presumptuous and insulting... which is delicious to me. You stink of desperation.
Second carriage returned line (lols): A flat out lie.
Third line: You are confused and I will let that go. Noone has been affected by your dev's fud.
Fourth line: I completely agree with except you Moonero'ers are just as bad if not worse and it's amazing you don't see it.

"the destruction of privacy widens the existing power imbalance between the ruling factions and everyone else" -- Julian Assange
bangomatic
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February 12, 2016, 05:55:49 PM
 #28

Nobody has been able to use the aforementioned "faulty code" to deanonymize an actual transaction.

Don't hold your breath.

^^ Although the SDC Dev Team is taking this seriously, and testing is still ongoing. 

Whether or not a bug is found, scrutiny only makes the SDC stronger and better. So thank you for that!
americanpegasus
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February 12, 2016, 06:08:34 PM
 #29

It's interesting that there are those who would choose to automatically assume when I said 'Monero doesn't appreciate scams' that I was talking about SDC. 
 
I went out of my way in the OP to state that there are many people, including devs, who are honest programmers involved with SDC and they are merely misguided.  No, when I refer to scams I mean things like VanillaCoin, and I am damn glad we have made it clear such scamming nonsense will not be tolerated in this community. 
 
Generalizethis wonders why even extend an open invitation to SDC at all, and it's because this: when I was coming over from Bitcoin many currencies looked similar, and SDC honestly had some very cool marketing and promises.  I can see how honest and upstanding enthusiasts might have gotten involved with it but this shouldn't be a "choose wisely or die" scenario.  Monero is the best digital currency today and the intention isn't to be smug about it, it's to show there's no hard feelings and our fellow colleagues are always welcome in this house. 

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
Gillette
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February 12, 2016, 06:10:06 PM
 #30

Munero assholes have failed as failed their PR campaign to promote munero  Grin
erok
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February 12, 2016, 06:17:02 PM
 #31

It's interesting that there are those who would choose to automatically assume when I said 'Monero doesn't appreciate scams' that I was talking about SDC. 
 
I went out of my way in the OP to state that there are many people, including devs, who are honest programmers involved with SDC and they are merely misguided.  No, when I refer to scams I mean things like VanillaCoin, and I am damn glad we have made it clear such scamming nonsense will not be tolerated in this community. 
 
Generalizethis wonders why even extend an open invitation to SDC at all, and it's because this: when I was coming over from Bitcoin many currencies looked similar, and SDC honestly had some very cool marketing and promises.  I can see how honest and upstanding enthusiasts might have gotten involved with it but this shouldn't be a "choose wisely or die" scenario.  Monero is the best digital currency today and the intention isn't to be smug about it, it's to show there's no hard feelings and our fellow colleagues are always welcome in this house. 
You do realize that you titled this thread "ShadowCash is mathematically broken. I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero." right? It's too late to take the high road punk. You already tainted yourself and your project.

"the destruction of privacy widens the existing power imbalance between the ruling factions and everyone else" -- Julian Assange
americanpegasus
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February 12, 2016, 07:54:16 PM
 #32

I don't see what's wrong with the topic title.  Based on what I can see, SDC is mathematically broken.  And I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero. 
 
Nothing malicious or hateful about that.  Just an invitation to bring their talents over into our camp.

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
erok
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February 12, 2016, 08:27:43 PM
 #33

I don't see what's wrong with the topic title.  Based on what I can see, SDC is mathematically broken.  And I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero. 
 
Nothing malicious or hateful about that.  Just an invitation to bring their talents over into our camp.
Keep telling yourself that. Ever seen the movie "Experimenter" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3726704/ ? The human mind can convince it's self that it's actions/decisions are justified in even the most transparent situations which from an outsider's perspective could easily be translated into malicious intent/complacency of malicious acts. It's on Netflix. Recommended viewing and applicable to you/your community's actions and high road justification to the PR blasts associated with your incorrect theory.

"the destruction of privacy widens the existing power imbalance between the ruling factions and everyone else" -- Julian Assange
GTO911
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February 12, 2016, 08:30:44 PM
 #34

Lock the thread AP, they are not interested
generalizethis
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February 12, 2016, 08:44:38 PM
 #35

I don't see what's wrong with the topic title.  Based on what I can see, SDC is mathematically broken.  And I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero. 
 
Nothing malicious or hateful about that.  Just an invitation to bring their talents over into our camp.
Keep telling yourself that. Ever seen the movie "Experimenter" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3726704/ ? The human mind can convince it's self that it's actions/decisions are justified in even the most transparent situations which from an outsider's perspective could easily be translated into malicious intent/complacency of malicious acts. It's on Netflix. Recommended viewing and applicable to you/your community's actions and high road justification to the PR blasts associated with your incorrect theory.

I would apply the same concept to your claim that it is an "incorrect" theory. Shen is hardly a slouch when it comes to cryptography, so if Shen uses math to show a flaw, you better be able to disprove his claim mathematically, not with rhetoric. Not sure why there is such a do or die mentality taken by XMR or SDC supporters; if Shen is correct, then the flaw can be fixed, SDC Devs should give him a bounty, and then go about fixing it--it won't destroy the coin the way a flaw in one of the 11 algos used in Dash could, but it will leave transactions before the fix traceable. Hardly end of the world stuff.

americanpegasus
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February 12, 2016, 08:59:07 PM
 #36

Lock the thread AP, they are not interested

It's true, quite a vitriolic response to a pretty genuine offer, but whatever.  I'll consider locking the thread 24 hours from now in order to give them time to say their peace. 

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
ArticMine
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February 12, 2016, 09:01:44 PM
 #37

Personally I believe this thread should be locked until there is a clear cut answer as to whether or not there is a fatal cryptographic flaw in Shadow Cash.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
iCEBREAKER
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February 12, 2016, 09:06:56 PM
 #38

Personally I believe this thread should be locked until there is a clear cut answer as to whether or not there is a fatal cryptographic flaw in Shadow Cash.

Here's your clear cut answer:

https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2016-02-11/?msg=59856660&page=3

Quote
MRL-Relay | [shen] I mean, for this one, the past year of transactions on sdc are de-anonymized, it's not like that's fixable no matter what they do now
MRL-Relay | [shen] that's the problem with having a public blockchain


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
erok
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February 12, 2016, 09:21:21 PM
 #39

I don't see what's wrong with the topic title.  Based on what I can see, SDC is mathematically broken.  And I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero.  
  
Nothing malicious or hateful about that.  Just an invitation to bring their talents over into our camp.
Keep telling yourself that. Ever seen the movie "Experimenter" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3726704/ ? The human mind can convince it's self that it's actions/decisions are justified in even the most transparent situations which from an outsider's perspective could easily be translated into malicious intent/complacency of malicious acts. It's on Netflix. Recommended viewing and applicable to you/your community's actions and high road justification to the PR blasts associated with your incorrect theory.

I would apply the same concept to your claim that it is an "incorrect" theory. Shen is hardly a slouch when it comes to cryptography, so if Shen uses math to show a flaw, you better be able to disprove his claim mathematically, not with rhetoric. Not sure why there is such a do or die mentality taken by XMR or SDC supporters; if Shen is correct, then the flaw can be fixed, SDC Devs should give him a bounty, and then go about fixing it--it won't destroy the coin the way a flaw in one of the 11 algos used in Dash could, but it will leave transactions before the fix traceable. Hardly end of the world stuff.
You better prove it before anyone gives a damn. This cross reddit-dedicatedthread-sdcthread-monerothread trolling is insane even if it wasn't already proven to be a lie. You just look like children digging in the mud.

Personally I believe this thread should be locked until there is a clear cut answer as to whether or not there is a fatal cryptographic flaw in Shadow Cash.

Here's your clear cut answer:

https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2016-02-11/?msg=59856660&page=3

Quote
MRL-Relay | [shen] I mean, for this one, the past year of transactions on sdc are de-anonymized, it's not like that's fixable no matter what they do now
MRL-Relay | [shen] that's the problem with having a public blockchain
That isn't proof at all. That is the guy flinging the crap reiterating the crap he "thinks". Gotta hand it to you guys though, your PR sure is organized when malicious. Too bad your community didn't try this hard for your last update.

"the destruction of privacy widens the existing power imbalance between the ruling factions and everyone else" -- Julian Assange
iCEBREAKER
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February 12, 2016, 09:29:22 PM
 #40

Personally I believe this thread should be locked until there is a clear cut answer as to whether or not there is a fatal cryptographic flaw in Shadow Cash.

Here's your clear cut answer:

https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2016-02-11/?msg=59856660&page=3

Quote
MRL-Relay | [shen] I mean, for this one, the past year of transactions on sdc are de-anonymized, it's not like that's fixable no matter what they do now
MRL-Relay | [shen] that's the problem with having a public blockchain
That isn't proof at all. That is the guy flinging the crap reiterating the crap he "thinks". Gotta hand it to you guys though, your PR sure is organized when malicious. Too bad your community didn't try this hard for your last update.

AM asked for a "clear cut answer" not "proof."

But since you brought it up, here you go:
Quote
De-anonymizing Shadowcash

https://gist.github.com/ShenNoether/3686113566bc23bf836f

Code:
Shadow-cash

https://github.com/shadowproject/shadow/blob/682891e656b5be2c2b819aa4977aa3b7e9f3f464/src/ringsig.cpp

static int hashToEC(const uint8_t *p, uint32_t len, BIGNUM *bnTmp, EC_POINT *ptRet)
{
    // - bn(hash(data)) * G

    uint256 pkHash = Hash(p, p + len);

    if (!bnTmp || !(BN_bin2bn(pkHash.begin(), EC_SECRET_SIZE, bnTmp)))
    {
        LogPrintf("hashToEC(): BN_bin2bn failed.\n");
        return 1;
    };

    if (!ptRet
        || !EC_POINT_mul(ecGrp, ptRet, bnTmp, NULL, NULL, bnCtx))
    {
        LogPrintf("hashToEC() EC_POINT_mul failed.\n");
        return 1;
    };

    return 0;
};

https://github.com/shadowproject/shadow/blob/master/src/ringsig.cpp#L136
int generateKeyImage(ec_point &publicKey, ec_secret secret, ec_point &keyImage)
{
    // - keyImage = secret * hash(publicKey) * G

    if (publicKey.size() != EC_COMPRESSED_SIZE)
        return errorN(1, "%s Invalid publicKey.", __func__);

    int rv = 0;
    BN_CTX_start(bnCtx);
    BIGNUM   *bnTmp     = BN_CTX_get(bnCtx);
    BIGNUM   *bnSec     = BN_CTX_get(bnCtx);
    EC_POINT *hG        = NULL;

    if (!(hG = EC_POINT_new(ecGrp)))
    {
        LogPrintf("%s: EC_POINT_new failed.\n", __func__);
        rv = 1; goto End;
    };

    if (hashToEC(&publicKey[0], publicKey.size(), bnTmp, hG) != 0)
    {
        LogPrintf("%s: hashToEC failed.\n", __func__);
        rv = 1; goto End;
    };

    if (!bnSec || !(BN_bin2bn(&secret.e[0], EC_SECRET_SIZE, bnSec)))
    {
        LogPrintf("%s: BN_bin2bn failed.\n", __func__);
        rv = 1; goto End;
    };
   
   


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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