Perpetual motion device - Free Energy - Do you believe in it?

[Rassah]

How much would you bet that it works or doesnt?

This topic is aimed at mainly:
myrkul
Rassah

I would bet $6,000,000,000 USD and the life of the betters that free energy is not possible. The energy always has to come from somewhere.

And sorry, it can't come from a magnet. I don't know where some of the guys here got the idea that you can get energy out of a magnet by slowly demagnetizing it, but that's simply not true. A magnet is just molecules lined up in a specific way. You can't get energy out of that any more than you get energy out of a crystal or from just lining up magnets on the floor top all face the same direction.

[Rassah]

Also, monopole magnets aren't known to exist.

We figured out how to make a monopole magnet using superconductors back in early 2000's. It still requires a lot of energy to work.

[Anon136]

Perhaps the cosmos its self is a perpetual motion devise?

[myrkul]

A rule of thumb is: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
None of these free-energy types has come up with any evidence so far.
I think you can safely dismiss any youtube videos about free energy without actually watching them..

Probably true. Key to science, though, is an open mind. If you dismiss all claims without even looking at the evidence, you could miss something groundbreaking. That's why I requested schematics. If I can build it myself, and it works, pulling energy out of thin air, I'll believe it.

If you invented a free energy machine you would not present the evidence in a youtube video...
There are many places that would gladly investigate such claim so there are enough ways for thee people to verify it actually works how they thin it works.
Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
In this respect a youtube video is useless unless it provides verifyable data collected blindly over many trials. Which is much more convenient to do in text so usually people write papers. And that is when you know you can at least put some effort into taking it seriously...
You simply cannot prove this stuff with a youtube demonstration.

About keeping an open mind, you would be way better off just reading some physics books as the whole playingfield of these quacks has been thoroughly mapped out decades ago by science and there was no free energy found despite the scrutiny. There just is no thing like free energy in a closed system on our macro level. There is a slight possibility there is a source of free energy at the absolute lowest quantum level but that happens at a scale of 10^-37m or something like that. Interfacing with something so small requires you to use tools operating at that level. Needless to say that any macroscopic ontraption could never be precise enough.
All these people playing around with macroscopic objects will never ever be able to magically tap energy out of thin air. It is just not how our univers happens to work.
So unless someone opens a 52th dimentional portal to c'thuluville they just cant be talking about really getting free energy and i'm not taking it serously.

Can't really argue, there... though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that, not "free' or "perpetual" energy, just generated in unconventional means. Thus, it pays to examine the ciaims.

Perhaps the cosmos its self is a perpetual motion devise?

Nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

[mobodick]

Also, monopole magnets aren't known to exist.

We figured out how to make a monopole magnet using superconductors back in early 2000's. It still requires a lot of energy to work.

I think those are synthetically defined by their surrounding.
So while no one thing/particle can posses a monopole you can create a situation where the environment forces one out of thin air by defining it's inverse. It's all relative, you see...

[Rassah]

though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that

You can't get energy out of a magnet. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a small permanent magnet, or a planet sized magnet. I know they are weird and mysterious, being able to attract things without anything visible, but magnets are just springs that work on a different level. You can pull apart a spring and have it snap back together, just like a magnet, but you can't get energy out of just the spring any more than you can out of just a magnet. Any "energy" you may see out of it is the energy that was applied to it earlier (pulling it apart) that is being released.
I don't know how to put it any other way, other than magnets don't have any energy in them to give.

[myrkul]

though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that

You can't get energy out of a magnet. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a small permanent magnet, or a planet sized magnet.

Out of a magnet, no. Out of movement in a magnetic field, or the movement of a magnetic field, yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether

[mobodick]

though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that

You can't get energy out of a magnet. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a small permanent magnet, or a planet sized magnet. I know they are weird and mysterious, being able to attract things without anything visible, but magnets are just springs that work on a different level. You can pull apart a spring and have it snap back together, just like a magnet, but you can't get energy out of just the spring any more than you can out of just a magnet. Any "energy" you may see out of it is the energy that was applied to it earlier (pulling it apart) that is being released.
I don't know how to put it any other way, other than magnets don't have any energy in them to give.

Magnets are not springs because a moving spring will not induce a current in a wire.

<thinking cap><looking serious>Now let's say we can strap a coil to the moon <brief pause>,</brief pause> how much energy could we tap out of it before it crashes into the earth?  </looking serious></thinking cap>

[mobodick]

though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that

You can't get energy out of a magnet. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a small permanent magnet, or a planet sized magnet.

Out of a magnet, no. Out of movement in a magnetic field, or the movement of a magnetic field, yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether

If you move a wire (tether) through a magnetic field it will resist the movement making it lose momentum.
If you created, say, a spaceship that extracts electrical energy in this way you would have to compensate for the loss of speed with other fuel (or even the same). Net result is you at least lost some heat. So in the end you will not be able to get usefull extra work out of such a system.

[Anon136]

A rule of thumb is: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
None of these free-energy types has come up with any evidence so far.
I think you can safely dismiss any youtube videos about free energy without actually watching them..

Probably true. Key to science, though, is an open mind. If you dismiss all claims without even looking at the evidence, you could miss something groundbreaking. That's why I requested schematics. If I can build it myself, and it works, pulling energy out of thin air, I'll believe it.

If you invented a free energy machine you would not present the evidence in a youtube video...
There are many places that would gladly investigate such claim so there are enough ways for thee people to verify it actually works how they thin it works.
Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
In this respect a youtube video is useless unless it provides verifyable data collected blindly over many trials. Which is much more convenient to do in text so usually people write papers. And that is when you know you can at least put some effort into taking it seriously...
You simply cannot prove this stuff with a youtube demonstration.

About keeping an open mind, you would be way better off just reading some physics books as the whole playingfield of these quacks has been thoroughly mapped out decades ago by science and there was no free energy found despite the scrutiny. There just is no thing like free energy in a closed system on our macro level. There is a slight possibility there is a source of free energy at the absolute lowest quantum level but that happens at a scale of 10^-37m or something like that. Interfacing with something so small requires you to use tools operating at that level. Needless to say that any macroscopic ontraption could never be precise enough.
All these people playing around with macroscopic objects will never ever be able to magically tap energy out of thin air. It is just not how our univers happens to work.
So unless someone opens a 52th dimentional portal to c'thuluville they just cant be talking about really getting free energy and i'm not taking it serously.

Can't really argue, there... though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that, not "free' or "perpetual" energy, just generated in unconventional means. Thus, it pays to examine the ciaims.

Perhaps the cosmos its self is a perpetual motion devise?

Nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

i think you may be conflating the cosmos with the universe. It may be the case that the universe is the cosmos but it may also be the case that the cosmos is greater in scope than the universe. If it is the case that the cosmos is greater in scope than the universe than it still stands that the cosmos its self may be a perpetual motion devise because entropy may be a property specific to certain universes and not the cosmos its self.

[evolve]

If you could make legitimate free energy (which you can't, because physics), you wouldn't be on YouTube posting shitty videos, you would be rubbing elbows with the worlds leaders because you just solved one of humanities greatest problems (sustainability).

[myrkul]

though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that

You can't get energy out of a magnet. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a small permanent magnet, or a planet sized magnet.

Out of a magnet, no. Out of movement in a magnetic field, or the movement of a magnetic field, yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether

If you move a wire (tether) through a magnetic field it will resist the movement making it lose momentum.
If you created, say, a spaceship that extracts electrical energy in this way you would have to compensate for the loss of speed with other fuel (or even the same). Net result is you at least lost some heat. So in the end you will not be able to get usefull extra work out of such a system.

I know... Check the rest of the quote, that Rassah left out:

not "free' or "perpetual" energy, just generated in unconventional means.

[mobodick]

A rule of thumb is: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
None of these free-energy types has come up with any evidence so far.
I think you can safely dismiss any youtube videos about free energy without actually watching them..

Probably true. Key to science, though, is an open mind. If you dismiss all claims without even looking at the evidence, you could miss something groundbreaking. That's why I requested schematics. If I can build it myself, and it works, pulling energy out of thin air, I'll believe it.

If you invented a free energy machine you would not present the evidence in a youtube video...
There are many places that would gladly investigate such claim so there are enough ways for thee people to verify it actually works how they thin it works.
Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
In this respect a youtube video is useless unless it provides verifyable data collected blindly over many trials. Which is much more convenient to do in text so usually people write papers. And that is when you know you can at least put some effort into taking it seriously...
You simply cannot prove this stuff with a youtube demonstration.

About keeping an open mind, you would be way better off just reading some physics books as the whole playingfield of these quacks has been thoroughly mapped out decades ago by science and there was no free energy found despite the scrutiny. There just is no thing like free energy in a closed system on our macro level. There is a slight possibility there is a source of free energy at the absolute lowest quantum level but that happens at a scale of 10^-37m or something like that. Interfacing with something so small requires you to use tools operating at that level. Needless to say that any macroscopic ontraption could never be precise enough.
All these people playing around with macroscopic objects will never ever be able to magically tap energy out of thin air. It is just not how our univers happens to work.
So unless someone opens a 52th dimentional portal to c'thuluville they just cant be talking about really getting free energy and i'm not taking it serously.

Can't really argue, there... though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that, not "free' or "perpetual" energy, just generated in unconventional means. Thus, it pays to examine the ciaims.

Perhaps the cosmos its self is a perpetual motion devise?

Nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

i think you may be conflating the cosmos with the universe. It may be the case that the universe is the cosmos but it may also be the case that the cosmos is greater in scope than the universe. If it is the case that the cosmos is greater in scope than the universe than it still stands that the cosmos its self may be a perpetual motion devise because entropy may be a property specific to certain universes and not the cosmos its self.

Where can i find the definition of the difference between the word universe and cosmos?
In my definition they mean the same thing.
The universe includes the known univere so it is already defined as bigger than we can ever hope to see.

[Meizirkki]

Free energy DOES exist. Just build a stirling engine out of scrap parts and stick in on your back yard. It'll run most of the day when there's a temperature difference between ground and air. Big enough stirlingengine with heat pumps to bring in heat from larger area and tada, you can power your mining rigs from the thermal energy of your lawn.

Perpetual motion however, is against the laws of nature. Laws of physics may change, laws of nature do not.

[mobodick]

though it may be possible to tap power from the Earth's magnetic field, or something like that

You can't get energy out of a magnet. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a small permanent magnet, or a planet sized magnet.

Out of a magnet, no. Out of movement in a magnetic field, or the movement of a magnetic field, yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether

If you move a wire (tether) through a magnetic field it will resist the movement making it lose momentum.
If you created, say, a spaceship that extracts electrical energy in this way you would have to compensate for the loss of speed with other fuel (or even the same). Net result is you at least lost some heat. So in the end you will not be able to get usefull extra work out of such a system.

I know... Check the rest of the quote, that Rassah left out:

not "free' or "perpetual" energy, just generated in unconventional means.

but you would not be generating, you would be using more energy to sustain your trajectory than you would 'generate' so effectively you would be only using energy, not generating it.
The satelite that uses it uses it as a kind of throttle. If it goes too fast it can use it to slow down and if it goes too slow it can use it to speed up. But it is not for generating electricity. It is to keep a specific balance. If they used it just to create electricity the drag would crash the satelite. So this device cannot be used to generate electricity. It's an energy converter, just like any motor and so you need to supply it with fuel.
Now i have to ask, making energy with fuel..    

[Rassah]

Magnets are not springs because a moving spring will not induce a current in a wire.

I know, I'm just trying to dumb it down for the people as much as possible. A magnet to inducing a current in a wire (attaching to and pulling electrons) is as a spring attaching to some crap with one end and dragging it along when you pull on the other. I guess I could call a magnet just a fastener.

[mobodick]

Free energy DOES exist. Just build a stirling engine out of scrap parts and stick in on your back yard. It'll run most of the day when there's a temperature difference between ground and air. Big enough stirlingengine with heat pumps to bring in heat from larger area and tada, you can power your mining rigs from the thermal energy of your lawn.

Perpetual motion however, is against the laws of nature. Laws of physics may change, laws of nature do not.

And how much work can you do with this heat difference between ground and air?

[mobodick]

Magnets are not springs because a moving spring will not induce a current in a wire.

I know, I'm just trying to dumb it down for the people as much as possible. A magnet to inducing a current in a wire (attaching to and pulling electrons) is as a spring attaching to some crap with one end and dragging it along when you pull on the other. I guess I could call a magnet just a fastener.

..you missed my obvious evil genius joke following it...
 

[mobodick]

Perpetual motion however, is against the laws of nature. Laws of physics may change, laws of nature do not.

You tell that to the universe with the accelerating expansion (that's our universe)....

[Meizirkki]

Free energy DOES exist. Just build a stirling engine out of scrap parts and stick in on your back yard. It'll run most of the day when there's a temperature difference between ground and air. Big enough stirlingengine with heat pumps to bring in heat from larger area and tada, you can power your mining rigs from the thermal energy of your lawn.

Perpetual motion however, is against the laws of nature. Laws of physics may change, laws of nature do not.

And how much work can you do with this heat difference between ground and air?

Is this a challenge or question out of curiosity? Stirling engines efficiency depends on the temperature difference and power output depends on it's physical size. Maths available in wikipedia.