The Ethereum Paradox

[monsterer]

Correct, but ostensibly you are missing my point. My point is that if validators must trust validators of other partitions[1], then they can't achieve a Nash equilibrium because they must compute the game theory incentives that the other validators have to lie.

Sorry, we are talking cross purposes again; because I am working through various edge cases of partitioning in my whitepaper at the moment, I'm focused on that and missed that you were talking about Casper and SC.

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[TPTB_need_war]

I recorded a video of myself to try to explain some of these issues:

http://coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Shelby_Ethereum_Paradox.avi

The Ethereum MSM shrilling is out in full force yet I still managed to make the price decline yet again.

Is the growth sustainable?

Ethereum price reached an all-time high of 0.0171 BTC on 12th of this month, only to experience a considerable fall soon after. Even though the cryptocurrency value is not showing any upward trend at the moment, it has scaled new heights, and it will continue to perform better than it used to in the previous months.

The cryptocurrency may not sustain this growth in a short term, but the demand is bound to grow in the long term. The ones with long term trading plans are bound to gain a lot as time progresses.

The insiders of Ethereum are ostensibly well connected professionals. They are fucking you over royally.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Btw, I also advised our whale rpietila to buy with both fists @ $10/BTC (he sold $100,000 of silver and bought 10,000 BTC).

So we have you to blame for him? Ugh. Good to know.


Edit: I won't hold it against you.

[TPTB_need_war]

Btw, I also advised our whale rpietila to buy with both fists @ $10/BTC (he sold $100,000 of silver and bought 10,000 BTC).

So we have you to blame for him? Ugh. Good to know.

He had numerous guys getting him into Bitcoin and he was the one who tried to focus me more on it. I was in ER and ICU in May 2012 and dealing with my kids being yanked and I was too preoccupied. I just took a quick look in January 2013 and agreed with him that it was about to explode to the upside.

Rpietila was a very rational, ethical, fair and even amicable person to deal with on silver trading, as I used to sell him silver rounds that I had manufactured from my 18,000 oz of Comex bars. Any idiosyncrasies that flourished after becoming wealthy are not during the time in which I was interacting with him.

I remain cordial/friendly with rpietila, but we are both off doing on our thing and I haven't been able to make time or justification for any communications with him lately.

[Fuserleer]

I recorded a video of myself to try to explain some of these issues:

http://coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Shelby_Ethereum_Paradox.avi

The Ethereum MSM shrilling is out in full force yet I still managed to make the price decline yet again.

Is the growth sustainable?

Ethereum price reached an all-time high of 0.0171 BTC on 12th of this month, only to experience a considerable fall soon after. Even though the cryptocurrency value is not showing any upward trend at the moment, it has scaled new heights, and it will continue to perform better than it used to in the previous months.

The cryptocurrency may not sustain this growth in a short term, but the demand is bound to grow in the long term. The ones with long term trading plans are bound to gain a lot as time progresses.

The insiders of Ethereum are ostensibly well connected professionals. They are fucking you over royally.

First of all, you should do more videos.

I was expecting something akin to the angry German kid playing Unreal Tournament, and instead I got a calm, comprehensive, thorough dictation of your thoughts with no indication of the crazy and manic sentiment your posts sometimes have

I'd like to point out a critical element that you seem to be missing/overlooking.  ~35 minutes into the video you start talking about unspent transaction outputs and the issues that partitions invoke with regard to them.

Ethereum does not have UTXOs nor does eMunie for that matter, account/address balances are recorded and credited/debited as per transactions they make and receive.  

Without the UTXO overhead, double spend prevention across partitions is much easier to achieve and can be done in an efficient manner.

Scripting/contracts might well be a different ball game, I haven't thought about it much, but I wanted to highlight the error with regard to transactions.

[TPTB_need_war]

Ethereum does not have UTXOs nor does eMunie for that matter, account/address balances are recorded and credited/debited as per transactions they make and receive.  

Without the UTXO overhead, double spend prevention across partitions is much easier to achieve and can be done in an efficient manner.

I mentioned in the video that Ethereum is using an account balances design.

There can't be any double-spend across partitions in the design I described in the video.

I understand if you want to allow spending across partitions, this complicates design issues. I had mentioned upthread that I deal with that in my design by requiring confirmation of such to wait for block confirmations. Where spending within partitions is instant in my design.

I think it is difficult to talk about every possible design variant in one video. I was already going off on too many injected tangents. That is not to say I have envisioned your design per se.

Thanks.

[Fuserleer]

Ethereum does not have UTXOs nor does eMunie for that matter, account/address balances are recorded and credited/debited as per transactions they make and receive.  

Without the UTXO overhead, double spend prevention across partitions is much easier to achieve and can be done in an efficient manner.

I mentioned in the video that Ethereum is using an account balances design.

There can't be any double-spend across partitions in the design I described in the video.

I understand if you want to allow spending across partitions, this complicates design issues. I had mentioned upthread that I deal with that in my design by requiring confirmation of such to wait for block confirmations. Where spending within partitions is instant in my design.

I think it is difficult to talk about every possible design variant in one video. I was already going off on too many injected tangents. That is not to say I have envisioned your design per se.

Thanks.

Hmm I must have missed where you mentioned that :|

Still, if you know that ETH is using balances rather than UTXOs, doesn't that mark the whole argument against partitions when using UTXOs redundant (at least as far as transactions are concerned)?

The points made about why it can't function are not applicable in the case of ETH anyway, and apply only to UTXO based block chains.

[TPTB_need_war]

Ethereum does not have UTXOs nor does eMunie for that matter, account/address balances are recorded and credited/debited as per transactions they make and receive.  

Without the UTXO overhead, double spend prevention across partitions is much easier to achieve and can be done in an efficient manner.

I mentioned in the video that Ethereum is using an account balances design.

There can't be any double-spend across partitions in the design I described in the video.

I understand if you want to allow spending across partitions, this complicates design issues. I had mentioned upthread that I deal with that in my design by requiring confirmation of such to wait for block confirmations. Where spending within partitions is instant in my design.

I think it is difficult to talk about every possible design variant in one video. I was already going off on too many injected tangents. That is not to say I have envisioned your design per se.

Thanks.

Hmm I must have missed where you mentioned that :|

Still, if you know that ETH is using balances rather than UTXOs, doesn't that mark the whole argument against partitions when using UTXOs redundant (at least as far as transactions are concerned)?

The points made about why it can't function are not applicable in the case of ETH anyway, and apply only to UTXO based block chains.

I explained that asset transfers (crypto currency, etc) are compatible with partitions. I explained that scripts are not and explained the distinction in terms of external chaos that destroys the Nash equilibrium.

I don't think UXTO or account balances has anything to do with why asset transfers are compatible with partitions while scripts are not.

I am very sleepy now. That is it for me today.

[stoat]

Sounds like you just stumped yourself.

[fadisaaida]

I have yet to see someone that gives a detailed technical Counter Argument to the Guys here which making me have doubts about ethereum "Long Term". Following this thread now

[box0214]

I have yet to see someone that gives a detailed technical Counter Argument to the Guys here which making me have doubts about ethereum "Long Term". Following this thread now

do you have a summary of what these doubts are long term? 8 pages is a bit much to read.

[fadisaaida]

I have yet to see someone that gives a detailed technical Counter Argument to the Guys here which making me have doubts about ethereum "Long Term". Following this thread now

do you have a summary of what these doubts are long term? 8 pages is a bit much to read.

Just read the 1st Page and 1st TPTB_need_war first replay on the thread. Basicly i was very enthusiastic about CASPER and Scalability potential of ethereum.
Until i read some good technical counterargument, i'm reducing my investment in the ethereum project long term, which is best now since prices seems to be good enough for me.

[box0214]

I have yet to see someone that gives a detailed technical Counter Argument to the Guys here which making me have doubts about ethereum "Long Term". Following this thread now

do you have a summary of what these doubts are long term? 8 pages is a bit much to read.

Just read the 1st Page and 1st TPTB_need_war first replay on the thread. Basicly i was very enthusiastic about CASPER and Scalability potential of ethereum.
Until i read some good technical counterargument, i'm reducing my investment in the ethereum project long term, which is best now since prices seems to be good enough for me.

I just read: http://www.multichain.com/blog/2015/11/smart-contracts-slow-blockchains/

they have some very good arguments, but does it mean ethereum is doomed? hard to say until they reach that point and possibly come up with another solution. you got to give it to them on the marketing front.

[stoat]

So far I've read a huge amount of FUD coming from all angles.

It used to be "vaporware!!! It will bever be released"
Then it was "price will crash to below ICO price!!" No one buy this coin!"
Now it's "pump and dump the market is manipulated!!!"
And "some highly technical reason why nothing in ethereum will work that is very hard to explain"


I will be increasing my investment in ETH because the price right now is artificially low because of this FUD which will melt away as ethereum once again proves all the doubters wrong.

[tat123]

AnonyMint thank you so much for this video. This is coming from a guy who has been into ETH from day one. You may remember me from Reddit. I was the first one to bring up this issue on their thread. (Sorry again for the drama queen remark), I never sold my stake, but it did cause me concern that nobody took your analysis seriously. Instead you were called a scammer. Not cool for a community that prides itself on being different from this cesspool. As of now, I sold all my ETH. I would love to reinvest, but I am not satisfied that Ethereum is future proof.  I am done with cryptos for the time being, so my money is going back to Silver. I will keep an eye out for your project, but this is it for me. Take care trolls, shills, pumpers, dumpers, traders, devs, investors, bagholders, and Shelby. 

[stoat]

AnonyMint thank you so much for this video. This is coming from a guy who has been into ETH from day one. You may remember me from Reddit. I was the first one to bring up this issue on their thread. (Sorry again for the drama queen remark), I never sold my stake, but it did cause me concern that nobody took your analysis seriously. Instead you were called a scammer. Not cool for a community that prides itself on being different from this cesspool. As of now, I sold all my ETH. I would love to reinvest, but I am not satisfied that Ethereum is future proof.  I am done with cryptos for the time being, so my money is going back to Silver. I will keep an eye out for your project, but this is it for me. Take care trolls, shills, pumpers, dumpers, traders, devs, investors, bagholders, and Shelby.  

what price did you sell at?

[tat123]

AnonyMint thank you so much for this video. This is coming from a guy who has been into ETH from day one. You may remember me from Reddit. I was the first one to bring up this issue on their thread. (Sorry again for the drama queen remark), I never sold my stake, but it did cause me concern that nobody took your analysis seriously. Instead you were called a scammer. Not cool for a community that prides itself on being different from this cesspool. As of now, I sold all my ETH. I would love to reinvest, but I am not satisfied that Ethereum is future proof.  I am done with cryptos for the time being, so my money is going back to Silver. I will keep an eye out for your project, but this is it for me. Take care trolls, shills, pumpers, dumpers, traders, devs, investors, bagholders, and Shelby.  

Doesn't sound like a real story to me.  Sounds like something you completely made up.

stoat. All you have to do is look at my post history on reddit (farage11) to see I was a fanboy for well over a year. You can also check my history and see that I went all in a few months ago after selling my IPO during the last run up in August. I could care less what you think. Imo, you are nothing more than a unkowledagble shill who badgers AnonyMint with sticks and stones, while he comes back with nukes. Your incessant shilling is juvenile. Name once where you have countered AnonyMints analysis with technical verbiage? Not once! You think people can't read your rebuttals? Show us your technical accumen and put AnonyMint in his place. Show us... that's what I thought. You are out of your depth, and that fact is a fact. Take care stoat, and know thyself. Something tells me that may be harder to attain than ETH's scaling problem.

[stoat]

AnonyMint thank you so much for this video. This is coming from a guy who has been into ETH from day one. You may remember me from Reddit. I was the first one to bring up this issue on their thread. (Sorry again for the drama queen remark), I never sold my stake, but it did cause me concern that nobody took your analysis seriously. Instead you were called a scammer. Not cool for a community that prides itself on being different from this cesspool. As of now, I sold all my ETH. I would love to reinvest, but I am not satisfied that Ethereum is future proof.  I am done with cryptos for the time being, so my money is going back to Silver. I will keep an eye out for your project, but this is it for me. Take care trolls, shills, pumpers, dumpers, traders, devs, investors, bagholders, and Shelby. 

Doesn't sound like a real story to me.  Sounds like something you completely made up.

stoat. All you have to do is look at my post history on reddit (farage11) to see I was a fanboy for well over a year. You can also check my history and see that I went all in a few months ago after selling my IPO during the last run up in August. I could care less what you think. Imo, you are nothing more than a unkowledagble shill who badgers AnonyMint with sticks and stones, while he comes back with nukes. Your incessant shilling is juvenile. Name once where you have countered AnonyMints analysis with technical verbiage? Not once! You think people can't read your rebuttals? Show us your techical accumen and put AnonyMint in his place. Show us... that's what I thought. You are out of your depth, and that fact is a fact. Take care stoat, and know thyself. Something tells me that may be harder to attain then ETH's scaling problem.

Can you explain anonymints technical complaint as you understand it?  Because not one time has he explained it clearly and unobscurely.  And also explain why EXACTLY it is a completely unsolvable problem?  My reading comprehension is second to none and I'm university educated, I have no problems understanding everything else I read but I can't seem for the life of me, able to reach that "aha moment" when anonymint explains this "completely unsolvable problem".

What was your "aha moment"? And can you explain how you arrived at it.

[Fuserleer]

AnonyMint thank you so much for this video. This is coming from a guy who has been into ETH from day one. You may remember me from Reddit. I was the first one to bring up this issue on their thread. (Sorry again for the drama queen remark), I never sold my stake, but it did cause me concern that nobody took your analysis seriously. Instead you were called a scammer. Not cool for a community that prides itself on being different from this cesspool. As of now, I sold all my ETH. I would love to reinvest, but I am not satisfied that Ethereum is future proof.  I am done with cryptos for the time being, so my money is going back to Silver. I will keep an eye out for your project, but this is it for me. Take care trolls, shills, pumpers, dumpers, traders, devs, investors, bagholders, and Shelby.  

Doesn't sound like a real story to me.  Sounds like something you completely made up.

stoat. All you have to do is look at my post history on reddit (farage11) to see I was a fanboy for well over a year. You can also check my history and see that I went all in a few months ago after selling my IPO during the last run up in August. I could care less what you think. Imo, you are nothing more than a unkowledagble shill who badgers AnonyMint with sticks and stones, while he comes back with nukes. Your incessant shilling is juvenile. Name once where you have countered AnonyMints analysis with technical verbiage? Not once! You think people can't read your rebuttals? Show us your techical accumen and put AnonyMint in his place. Show us... that's what I thought. You are out of your depth, and that fact is a fact. Take care stoat, and know thyself. Something tells me that may be harder to attain then ETH's scaling problem.

Can you explain anonymints technical complaint as you understand it?  Because not one time has he explained it clearly and unobscurely.  And also explain why EXACTLY it is a completely unsolvable problem?  My reading comprehension is second to none and I'm university educated, I have no problems understanding everything else I read but I can't seem for the life of me, able to reach that "aha moment" when anonymint explains this "completely unsolvable problem".

What was your "aha moment"? And can you explain how you arrived at it.

Being someone with first hand experience, and the technical knowledge to present challenges to TPTB's arguments when applicable, I can tell you its just too damn painful to do so.

No developer worth any salt is going to engage with him because it simply devolves into name calling if you don't align with his thoughts.  Before long the n00b, b-lister, you are not worthy comments start regardless of if he's right or not and its just a noisy waste of time.  I've seen the same towards people just trying to understand and not necessarily even disagreeing.

The discussion ends in a blaze of fire with one of the parties leaving, usually it's not TPTB that has departed (he can argue all damn day) so it "looks" from the outside that he won, even if in reality his "facts" are wrong.

If you DO have the patience and manage to back him into a corner, it's simply side stepped and a new argument is presented to justify the last, all twisted together in some obscure manner and the process repeats.

These days I'd rather go and pull my own teeth with a set of pliers than engage in any kind of deep prolonged discussion because its a less painful experience.

[tempus]

AnonyMint thank you so much for this video. This is coming from a guy who has been into ETH from day one. You may remember me from Reddit. I was the first one to bring up this issue on their thread. (Sorry again for the drama queen remark), I never sold my stake, but it did cause me concern that nobody took your analysis seriously. Instead you were called a scammer. Not cool for a community that prides itself on being different from this cesspool. As of now, I sold all my ETH. I would love to reinvest, but I am not satisfied that Ethereum is future proof.  I am done with cryptos for the time being, so my money is going back to Silver. I will keep an eye out for your project, but this is it for me. Take care trolls, shills, pumpers, dumpers, traders, devs, investors, bagholders, and Shelby.  

Doesn't sound like a real story to me.  Sounds like something you completely made up.

stoat. All you have to do is look at my post history on reddit (farage11) to see I was a fanboy for well over a year. You can also check my history and see that I went all in a few months ago after selling my IPO during the last run up in August. I could care less what you think. Imo, you are nothing more than a unkowledagble shill who badgers AnonyMint with sticks and stones, while he comes back with nukes. Your incessant shilling is juvenile. Name once where you have countered AnonyMints analysis with technical verbiage? Not once! You think people can't read your rebuttals? Show us your techical accumen and put AnonyMint in his place. Show us... that's what I thought. You are out of your depth, and that fact is a fact. Take care stoat, and know thyself. Something tells me that may be harder to attain then ETH's scaling problem.

Can you explain anonymints technical complaint as you understand it?  Because not one time has he explained it clearly and unobscurely.  And also explain why EXACTLY it is a completely unsolvable problem?  My reading comprehension is second to none and I'm university educated, I have no problems understanding everything else I read but I can't seem for the life of me, able to reach that "aha moment" when anonymint explains this "completely unsolvable problem".

What was your "aha moment"? And can you explain how you arrived at it.

Being someone with first hand experience, and the technical knowledge to present challenges to TPTB's arguments when applicable, I can tell you its just too damn painful to do so.

No developer worth any salt is going to engage with him because it simply devolves into name calling if you don't align with his thoughts.  Before long the n00b, b-lister, you are not worthy comments start regardless of if he's right or not and its just a noisy waste of time.  The discussion ends in a blaze of fire with one of the parties leaving, usually it's not TPTB that has departed (he can argue all damn day) so it "looks" from the outside that he won, even if in reality his "facts" are wrong.

These days I'd rather go and pull my own teeth with a set of pliers than engage in any kind of discussion because its a less painful experience.

You could simply say where he is wrong, bringing infos, arguments and facts. I'm somebody without much knowledge about the tech, that's why I read discussions about it. My impression in general is (and over months) that there is a lack of controversial discussions about ETH. It's nearly always about the price. My questions about Casper, just for example, were never replied - in no topic.

This is the first thread I know of that focusses on the technical side and the lonterm-potential and if ETH can be what it is aimed to be. And I don't believe that one side is completely right and the other side is totally wrong, but what I see is: All the concerns in this thread are not rebutted yet.