How about Vanilla coin

[TPTB_need_war]

I'm sure John will roll out the full details before full beta testing is done.

And I am sure we will analyze it if he does. Until then, all you have is hype.

[smooth]

There is another issue with plagiarism besides credibility and hype, which is that when you write code yourself you likely have some idea what the code actually does. When you run it through an automatic reformatting/refactoring tool in order to disguise the copying you very likely have no idea how the code actually works.

You also can't do any automatic or easy merges. It was already pointed out on one of the other threads that VNL had carried forward a bug (implausible if it were actually new code) that had subsequently been fixed in Bitcoin, yet ignored in VNL.

This played out recently in the case of SDC, who copied the cryptography from Cryptonote (but not the code, which they reimplemented). They did not understand how it worked and ended up reimplementing it incorrectly, leading to total deanonymization of their entire chain.

The large portions of the VNL code that were ripped off from BTC are almost certainly not fully understood by the developer, likely contain multiple unfixed bugs, and will be harder (likely to the point if impracticality for a small one-man project) to maintain due to the unnecessary reformatting/refactoring.

[bitcoin carpenter]

Off to bed.  As always good to hear from you all, I like to argue, and you guys are always thoughtful.. well everyone except icebreaker....  don't know why I ever take him off ignore.  Oh yah, his banter with spoetnik  keeps me entertained...

Please refrain from using scam every second sentence, it will help me take you more seriously.

Smooth please go read through some of the thousands of other lines of code John has wrote, you will see why your last post is full crap.

[TPTB_need_war]

Smooth please go read through some of the thousands of other lines of code John has wrote, you will see why your last post is full crap.

No one said he can't write some code.

Smooth's point is that if he is cutting corners and even trying to obscure that fact that he did, by running the plagiarized code through a reformatter, and on top of that is my point that he hasn't released detailed specifications, then it at the minimum exemplifies that he doesn't have enough resources and is attempting to hide that reality. In the worse case, it is evidence of unethical foundation.

Thus when you all shrill and hype that which is not ready for prime time, and the fact that VNL is trading now even though it is not ready for prime time, then we have every right to point that out.

If John had first completed all the necessary work before providing coins to trade on the market, then we'd perhaps be less inclined to doubt his ethics and scammerness.

[bitcoin carpenter]

Smooth please go read through some of the thousands of other lines of code John has wrote, you will see why your last post is full crap.

No one said he can't write some code.

Smooth's point is that if he is cutting corners and even trying to obscure that fact that he did, by running the plagiarized code through a reformatter, and on top of that is my point that he hasn't released detailed specifications, then it at the minimum exemplifies that he doesn't have enough resources and is attempting to hide that reality. In the worse case, it is evidence of unethical foundation.

Thus when you all shrill and hype that which is not ready for prime time, and the fact that VNL is trading now even though it is not ready for prime time, then we have every right to point that out.

If John had first completed all the necessary work before providing coins to trade on the market, then we'd perhaps be less inclined to doubt his ethics and scammerness.

Fuck you just described every Altcoin in existence. BTC included

I'm just here to add another side to the Fud.   Don't call me a shill for supporting a dev that I like.  
I'm also not here to talk against you specifically,  but more the XMR slander campaign that is running all over this forum using incomplete arguments and saying it's proof of one thing or another.

Fully on topic for one sec.  
How about vanillacoin?

Sure how about it.  While some here like to use every tactic to slander projects in development, I will give you my point of view on this project.
John-connor is a legit coder, he works tirelessly to roll out tech that can make a coin that works fast and efficiently, he fights hard to make sure that distribution is fair.  The team of vanillacoin support is always around to help people get things running.  He has delivered on his promises.
VNL is not some crappie clone coin, but a forward thinking practical project that has possibly solved many of bitcoin problems.
Come to vanillacoin.net or to its IRC channel to learn more
(That includes you haters as well)

Shameless plug for calling me a shill..

[TPTB_need_war]

You are an obfuscation machine same as your leader. Not all alt-coins have code run through an obfuscation reformatter. Many instead use the bitcoin code exclusively with only very slight modications and don't try to hide it. Thus the code can be more or less relied upon.

Monero for example doesn't try to hide that it is using the Bytecoin code, and they have also undertaken a long-term plan of reviewing every line of code. Afaik, a lot of code of has been rewritten. Meaning they understand all the code and have the resources to study every single line of code. As well, Monero is based on Cryptonote which has a very complete specification on the one-time ring signatures (well not for the PoW hash, but Monero put a lot of effort into the hash function as well).

Monero has numerous developers contributing. Many eyeballs. John Conner is off by himself trying to do it all. In some ways, you could compare my efforts to Johns in that respect. But the distinction is I didn't try to hype coins into the market before my shit was ready.

[bitcoin carpenter]

You basically just made my point..

[TPTB_need_war]

Fuck you just described every Altcoin in existence. BTC included

The bolded statement is egregiously incorrect.

I already refuted the other sentence in my prior post.

[bitcoin carpenter]

John doesn't need to hide it, it's all open source.
BTW I have wasted a day of my time going through the codes side by side, as I was considering investing more, obviously you haven't. It's east to see a fish in the sea if someone is pointing at it.

And OK I'll withdraw my bitcoin statement, because without its successes we wouldn't have a benchmark to measure against.  But putting bytecoin in the same league as bitcoin..  come on, laughable.  Monero forked off a buggy/scammy alpha piece of brilliant code.

Also you are colluding with my argument by using the monero model as your retort.
It developed way to slow, even with its many eyes.  
With its hard to mine beginning through its hard to use lifetime, it has been plagued by being entirely to prerelease since it's beginning.  And now as it points the finger at other crypto notes saying they are all flawed and it has the answer, it is to late.

If zcash (the reason we all started looking for anon  altcoins) comes out in six months and completes what zsnarks/crypto note could not, monero is done.

Here is a thought.  Could that be why all the fan boys are out promoting/fuding?
You guys want one last pump before you flood to zcash?

Sorry about the editing I'm doing all this typing on my phone.
Oh and sorry I went way off topic there.

[iCEBREAKER]

Also you are colluding with my argument by using the monero model as your retort.

Speaking of Monero, I heard Shen Noether is going to destroy VNL as soon as he's done demolishing ShadowTrash.

[gregyoung14]

The cryptocurrency equivalent of a Gender Studies Degree.

Haha. So much LOL on this one. Vanilla Ice Ice Baby.
But seriously though, no matter how many altcoins are there in existence, I don't think it can take out BTCs out of the game.

[bitcoin carpenter]

Also you are colluding with my argument by using the monero model as your retort.

Speaking of Monero, I heard Shen Noether is going to destroy VNL as soon as he's done demolishing ShadowTrash.

In case you missed it we were having a good discussion in here, not the pure useless dribble that you normally bring, BUT
Hooray icebreaker the king of REKT is back now it's really time to go to bed..

FLAME ON!!!

[americanpegasus]

Speaking of Monero, I heard Shen Noether is going to destroy VNL as soon as he's done demolishing ShadowTrash.

I heard he's seven feet tall, and if he were here, he'd flatten the English with fireballs from his eyes - and lightning bolts from his arse.

[TPTB_need_war]

John doesn't need to hide it, it's all open source.

He is not releasing complete specifications. Cryptonote white paper is a complete specification of the one-time ring signatures. The Shazam encryption function specification I released this week is a complete specification. Period! Damn it! Don't make me write it again.

I haven't even released any coins into the market, yet my Shazam specification (which is mostly work I did in 2013!) on a minor component is more thorough than John's white papers on the larger scope of Zerotime and the new anonymity BS he is hyping.

You continue to twist and spin the facts to try to obfuscate what we are saying.

Don't say he didn't try to hide it. It has been proven by smooth and gmaxwell that he ran the plagiarized code through an obfuscation reformatter.

Also his refusal to release complete specifications means he can hide what the code (even the parts he didn't copy from Bitcoin and obfuscate) is intended to do specifically. No one has time to figure out what his code does without a specification to guide the study.

He exemplifies all the patterns of a huskster by releasing codes into the market without making complete specifications (and also the product not even developed to the point of being ready to be released to users), then on top of that even plagiarizing code, failing to give attribution as the copyright license on Bitcoin code requires, and then running through an obfuscation preformatter to try to hide his theft mentality.

That you align yourself with someone of his reputation is going to drag your reputation into the sewer as well.

[TPTB_need_war]

BTW I have wasted a day of my time going through the codes side by side, as I was considering investing more, obviously you haven't. It's east to see a fish in the sea if someone is pointing at it.

A day is not enough to fully understand even just 1000 lines of code in most cases. And I assume he has more than 1000 lines, since a crypto currency can't be programmed in 1000 lines of code.

And OK I'll withdraw my bitcoin statement, because without its successes we wouldn't have a benchmark to measure against.

The point is that Bitcoin has man-years of top notch developers. Bitcoin isn't perfect, but it isn't one guy who can't write complete specifications, stealing code without attribution, and releasing coins for sale with half-assed R&D and hype BS on anonymity and zerotime.

But putting bytecoin in the same league as bitcoin..  come on, laughable.  Monero forked off a buggy/scammy alpha piece of brilliant code.

What I wrote is they didn't hide it and instead endeavored to apply man-years of high quality developers on studying every line of code.

Also you are colluding with my argument by using the monero model as your retort.
It developed way to slow, even with its many eyes.  
With its hard to mine beginning through its hard to use lifetime, it has been plagued by being entirely to prerelease since it's beginning.  And now as it points the finger at other crypto notes saying they are all flawed and it has the answer, it is to late.

That is the pitch John tells you. I will agree only on one point, which is that Monero is not user adoption focused. But neither is VNL (nor all the other alt-coins).

Monero is developed slower than a Manhattan Project, because the developers are volunteers. There is no Steve Jobs/Bill Gates coming into their offices to crack the whip.

I suppose John has told his flock that he can develop faster. Well so far he has failed, because he can't write complete specifications.

These projects take a lot of time to R&D. I am actually trying to find a shortcut (and I don't know if I will succeed to), in that I will try to go directly to user adoption so I don't have to try to convince any of you of anything. In that case, you won't be able to attack me if I didn't release a specification, because I won't be selling anything here in this forum. Of course I will still be doing my best to make sure my technology is correct, but knowing full well that as only 1 man, I can't get it all perfectly correct. So I can only hope to get it correct enough, attain adoption, then from there fund more developers. That is my strategy.

What I see of John's strategy is he using deception and providing coins to speculators. So therefor he is going to be subject to this sort of skepticism.

Bottom line is his Zerotime won't work and his anonymity is BS. If he thinks otherwise, then produce a complete specification.

If zcash (the reason we all started looking for anon  altcoins) comes out in six months and completes what zsnarks/crypto note could not, monero is done.

Not necessarily. Zcash at least has issues about the funding model. This is an open question still being sorted out.

Also Zcash has the issue around trust of setup.

Also Zcash is not yet available and will need man-years of development to make sure the code is production level quality (bulletproof).

Perhaps Zooko can do a great job especially with adequate funding. We have to see how this will all play out.

For John to throw his hat into the anonymity arena at this point, is laughable. I even invented ZKT (similar and maybe better than RingCT), but I realized I have no future competing with Monero and Zcash. I either join them or move on to other opportunities. I so far have chosen the latter. I told Shen-Noether that if I knew he was researching RingCT, I would have never expended June/July 2015 researching and inventing ZKT. I hate to waste my effort on duplication. And that is what John is doing at the very best and at worst it is a scam.

Here is a thought.  Could that be why all the fan boys are out promoting/fuding?
You guys want one last pump before you flood to zcash?

Nah, I think americanpegasus really believes that Monero/Aeon will become world dominant. He drinks his KoolAid.

Sorry about the editing I'm doing all this typing on my phone.
Oh and sorry I went way off topic there.

Ah on a mobile phone. I forget that many do that. I am always on a 24" monitor.

[smooth]

BTW I have wasted a day of my time going through the codes side by side, as I was considering investing more, obviously you haven't. It's east to see a fish in the sea if someone is pointing at it.

A day is not enough to fully understand even just 1000 lines of code in most cases. And I assume he has more than 1000 lines, since a crypto currency can't be programmed in 1000 lines of code.

It's about 100k lines (including blanks -- simple file line count). Good luck figuring out what all that code does, how it is being used, where it came from, whether it has unpatched bugs, etc.

[YAdaminer]

I couldnt resist to say HI to copy/paste/copyright FUD squad.

[TPTB_need_war]

I couldnt resist to say HI to copy/paste/copyright FUD squad.

Good luck. I'll be waiting for the complete specifications from John and hoping on his Zerotime he can prove all the PhDs wrong and somehow make the speed-of-light infinite by showing that synchrony is possible in distributed systems.  

[smooth]

I couldnt resist to say HI to copy/paste/copyright FUD squad.

Shouldn't you be off in some walled garden controlled investor-fleecing forum somewhere?

[TPTB_need_war]

I have explored every possible design for anonymity. I expended months and years thinking about every possible way it could be done. How many days I sat on my couch just running the possibilities through my mind. So if I say John is wasting his time, then you should believe it.

And by now getting close to that level of study also on consensus algorithms including instant confirmations.

Let John publish a complete specification if he thinks he invented something I (or others who I've studied) didn't already think of and dismissed. The likelihood although not absolutely 0, is exceedingly small.

smooth's implicit point (among other points) in his immediately prior post is that John isn't participating in peer view and prior art searching. No person is omniscient and there are very few things under the sun that others haven't also explored. I have been sharing my ideas and thoughts on this forum as a form of peer review.