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Author Topic: How did this address come into being 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE?  (Read 8710 times)
DannyHamilton
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January 15, 2013, 03:54:06 AM
 #21

. . . Start with a 256 bit counter, set to any number you like.  On the secp256k1 curve, do an EC multiply of the value in the counter by the point at (0x79BE667EF9DCBBAC55A06295CE870B07029BFCDB2DCE28D959F2815B16F81798,0x483ADA7726A3C4655DA4FBFC0E1108A8FD17B448A68554199C47D08FFB10D4B8).  Now hash that result in RIPE-MD160.  If you got 0x759d6677091e973b9e9d99f19c68fbf43e3f05f9 as the result, you found the pubkey for the bitcoin eater address.  If not, increment the counter and try again . . .
I think you missed a step.  After determining the public key from the private key, isn't the resulting public key hashed using SHA-256, and then that result is hashed using RIPEMD-160 to generate the address?

So isn't this more accurate?

. . . Start with a 256 bit counter, set to any number you like.  On the secp256k1 curve, do an EC multiply of the value in the counter by the point at (0x79BE667EF9DCBBAC55A06295CE870B07029BFCDB2DCE28D959F2815B16F81798,0x483ADA7726A3C4655DA4FBFC0E1108A8FD17B448A68554199C47D08FFB10D4B8).  Now hash that result in SHA-256.  Now hash that result in RIPE-MD160.  If you got 0x759d6677091e973b9e9d99f19c68fbf43e3f05f9 as the result, you found the pubkey for the bitcoin eater address.  If not, increment the counter and try again . . .

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DannyHamilton
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January 15, 2013, 04:03:40 AM
 #22

. . . figure we double the amount of work done in each year.  That means one bit per year, which means 90 years between today and 2160 . . .
While you might be able to imagine that the speeds necessary to calculate hashes and/or perform EC multiplication might double each year, you'll eventually find that you run into a limit in the amount of energy required to change a binary state.  When you multiply the minimum possible amount of energy required by the number of bits that have to have their state changed to perform the necessary calculations, you encounter a situation where you can't increase speed any further because all the available energy is used at the current speed.  When that energy requirement is higher than the total energy output of the sun, you can feel pretty secure in saying that it won't be possible to calculate any faster.

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January 15, 2013, 04:04:20 AM
 #23

No matter how many times you repeat "billion", there might be computer - or entity - one day that will do the job in an instant.

I am arguing here just because there are way too many people like you, spreading LIES around. Be factual or be quiet, thanks!

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January 15, 2013, 05:16:22 AM
 #24

. . . Start with a 256 bit counter, set to any number you like.  On the secp256k1 curve, do an EC multiply of the value in the counter by the point at (0x79BE667EF9DCBBAC55A06295CE870B07029BFCDB2DCE28D959F2815B16F81798,0x483ADA7726A3C4655DA4FBFC0E1108A8FD17B448A68554199C47D08FFB10D4B8).  Now hash that result in RIPE-MD160.  If you got 0x759d6677091e973b9e9d99f19c68fbf43e3f05f9 as the result, you found the pubkey for the bitcoin eater address.  If not, increment the counter and try again . . .
I think you missed a step.  After determining the public key from the private key, isn't the resulting public key hashed using SHA-256, and then that result is hashed using RIPEMD-160 to generate the address?

So isn't this more accurate?

. . . Start with a 256 bit counter, set to any number you like.  On the secp256k1 curve, do an EC multiply of the value in the counter by the point at (0x79BE667EF9DCBBAC55A06295CE870B07029BFCDB2DCE28D959F2815B16F81798,0x483ADA7726A3C4655DA4FBFC0E1108A8FD17B448A68554199C47D08FFB10D4B8).  Now hash that result in SHA-256.  Now hash that result in RIPE-MD160.  If you got 0x759d6677091e973b9e9d99f19c68fbf43e3f05f9 as the result, you found the pubkey for the bitcoin eater address.  If not, increment the counter and try again . . .

Oh, probably.  I didn't check my notes on the process, I just happened to have the file with the curve constants open.  It doesn't change anything fundamental either way.  And no one is reading this thread for a tutorial on how to create addresses, they already know to look elsewhere.

. . . figure we double the amount of work done in each year.  That means one bit per year, which means 90 years between today and 2160 . . .
While you might be able to imagine that the speeds necessary to calculate hashes and/or perform EC multiplication might double each year, you'll eventually find that you run into a limit in the amount of energy required to change a binary state.  When you multiply the minimum possible amount of energy required by the number of bits that have to have their state changed to perform the necessary calculations, you encounter a situation where you can't increase speed any further because all the available energy is used at the current speed.  When that energy requirement is higher than the total energy output of the sun, you can feel pretty secure in saying that it won't be possible to calculate any faster.

For the next 50 or 100 years or whatever, the issue is going to be engineering more than physics.

The Schneier quote is here if you want to read it.  The problem really is in the 2160.  A Dyson sphere around the sun for a year is plenty to iterate 2160, because 160 is puny compared to 256.  In physics terms, I'm not sure how many operations are required for the other parts of finding an address.  At the limits, the resources in our solar system appear to be capable of breaking 160 bit systems, but we are far, far from approaching those limits.  Maybe our grandchildren, or great-grandchildren will ask us some day if saving 16 bytes was worth it.  But I'm not worried about it tonight.

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January 15, 2013, 06:17:20 AM
 #25

I'm confused about the controversy here.

It's nice to get into the math - that's fun, but what we really have here is a battle of semantics.

The word permanent does not describe an eternal situation. For something to have a permanent state, it must only remain that way for the foreseeable future.

The bitcoins in question are permanently stuck, however, they are NOT stuck eternally, regardless of technological progress.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but no matter how unlikely it seems, it is possible that someone will randomly generate this key tomorrow. Of course a brute force attack will take a mind blowing amount of time, but I don't think that is focal point of our discrepancy.

Just don't count on being the lucky winner any time soon...

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January 15, 2013, 06:22:16 AM
 #26

Correct me if I am mistaken, but no matter how unlikely it seems, it is possible that someone will randomly generate this key tomorrow. Of course a brute force attack will take a mind blowing amount of time, but I don't think that is focal point of our discrepancy.

It's also possible someone will experience a DNA mutation and bear offspring tomorrow with blue skin, a long tail, and the overall appearance as seen in the movie Avatar.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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January 15, 2013, 06:37:35 AM
 #27

Correct me if I am mistaken, but no matter how unlikely it seems, it is possible that someone will randomly generate this key tomorrow. Of course a brute force attack will take a mind blowing amount of time, but I don't think that is focal point of our discrepancy.

It's also possible someone will experience a DNA mutation and bear offspring tomorrow with blue skin, a long tail, and the overall appearance as seen in the movie Avatar.

My undergrad knowledge of biology is not enough to dispute this, but it seems you have agreed with me at least.

The hyperbole practically screams semantics!

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January 15, 2013, 07:20:47 AM
 #28

Correct me if I am mistaken, but no matter how unlikely it seems, it is possible that someone will randomly generate this key tomorrow. Of course a brute force attack will take a mind blowing amount of time, but I don't think that is focal point of our discrepancy.

It's also possible someone will experience a DNA mutation and bear offspring tomorrow with blue skin, a long tail, and the overall appearance as seen in the movie Avatar.

Interesting.  Now this would put things into perspective to me.  Which of these two is more likely, a born mutant avatar or guessing the private key on the first try?

Because they're both possible.
John (John K.)
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January 15, 2013, 07:27:21 AM
 #29

Correct me if I am mistaken, but no matter how unlikely it seems, it is possible that someone will randomly generate this key tomorrow. Of course a brute force attack will take a mind blowing amount of time, but I don't think that is focal point of our discrepancy.

It's also possible someone will experience a DNA mutation and bear offspring tomorrow with blue skin, a long tail, and the overall appearance as seen in the movie Avatar.

My undergrad knowledge of biology is not enough to dispute this, but it seems you have agreed with me at least.

The hyperbole practically screams semantics!

It would also be possible that someone would generate MT.Gox's cold storage address or one of those highly endowed addresses too.

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January 15, 2013, 02:07:32 PM
 #30

It is also possible that all of the oxygen molecules in the air of the room you are in right now will, by random chance, drift to the end of the room you are not in and you will die from lack of oxygen.


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January 15, 2013, 08:19:07 PM
 #31

You people are really funny. You belive you know almost everything. There is just so little of unknown left in your world. Yet, the truth is
none of us know anything more but human partial truth, countless times proven wrong. Thousands of geniuses of their time were already
proven wrong, yet you are so sure you got things right. You learnt nothing from the past. There is no room in your heads for unthinkable.

Off to altcoin part of forum, people there are so much more open minded.

Oh yea we are really ignorant for believing that the total entropy of a system will always increase. If it wasn't like that, brute forcing some stupid hash function to steal other people's money would definitly be our least concern. We could fly to the moon with no fuel needed woohoo.
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January 15, 2013, 08:34:14 PM
 #32

You people are really funny. You belive you know almost everything. There is just so little of unknown left in your world. Yet, the truth is
none of us know anything more but human partial truth, countless times proven wrong. Thousands of geniuses of their time were already
proven wrong, yet you are so sure you got things right. You learnt nothing from the past. There is no room in your heads for unthinkable.

Off to altcoin part of forum, people there are so much more open minded.

Oh yea we are really ignorant for believing that the total entropy of a system will always increase. If it wasn't like that, brute forcing some stupid hash function to steal other people's money would definitly be our least concern. We could fly to the moon with no fuel needed woohoo.

Heck with Bitcoins, I am going to start work on the improbability drive mentioned in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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January 15, 2013, 08:47:34 PM
 #33

Heck with Bitcoins, I am going to start work on the improbability drive mentioned in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
I've been focusing my efforts into creating the flux capacitor mentioned in "Back to the Future".

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January 15, 2013, 09:24:50 PM
 #34

Heck with Bitcoins, I am going to start work on the improbability drive mentioned in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
I've been focusing my efforts into creating the flux capacitor mentioned in "Back to the Future".
Both are now possible since we can create temperatures below absolute zero!

http://www.dailytech.com/Researchers+Change+the+Laws+of+Physics+With+SubAbsolute+Zero+Quantum+Gas/article29557.htm

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DannyHamilton
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January 15, 2013, 09:38:07 PM
 #35


While it might be possible to create systems that "by the formal definition of the Kelvin scale is a few billionths of a degree Kelvin below absolute zero", you'll note that these systems are not colder than absolute zero.  The article clearly states:

Quote
But don't be confused.  The below-absolute-zero system is not cold.  It is in fact very, very hot -- hotter than any positive Kelvin system.

The issue is that, "In cooler positive temperature systems, the numbers of particles in low-energy states outnumber those in high-energy states, giving rise to the formal quantum mechanics definition of temperature."

However in the system described, ". . . the entropy actually decreases as the system energy (and "heat") increase, giving rise to a negative quantum temperature."

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January 15, 2013, 09:45:17 PM
 #36

It is still totally cool, I mean hot, er... ahhhhhhhh (brain explodes)

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