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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan  (Read 99315 times)
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January 13, 2014, 09:23:47 PM
 #541

And I rest my case LOL!  Notice how it's the same people spouting the same tired crap over and over ad nauseum?

They have nothing to actually complain about... So to them repeating the same lies enough times makes them feel like they are important and that they matter.


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January 14, 2014, 04:02:36 PM
 #542

The only people you find complaining on Bitcointalk for the most part are competitors or known trolls like Entropy, Bicknellski, etc...

To answer your question though: No there is nothing valid they bring to the table that qualifies as a scam. Just angry butt hurt trolls who can't stand the fact that all their idiotic "predictions" and false claims turned out to be lies and they are exposed for what they are. So they try to flood the threads and forum with more junk in hopes that people will forget.

Respectfully, you've been just as guilty of that. It's been a very eye opening thread, to say the least.

I have no dog in this fight, just wish there could be some sort of dialogue..."hey, this is what you've done wrong, and here is the evidence" and counters of "We haven't been perfect, and here's how we're working to improve."

Name calling doesn't restore BTC or help reputations.
Josh, as an early adopter of Bitcoin should be enormously wealthy, and a very happy camper.  Instead he is filled with rage because essentially everyone in this community considers him to be lower than dogshit.
Please, don't offend the feces by placing them together in the same paragraph.

The feces does not feel compelled to lie and dance around facts in an attempt to confuse folks.
The feces feels no rage towards customers though sometimes is warm depending on the season.
The feces does not experience malice.
The feces does not experience shame. (well neither does Josh, one thing in common)

The feces feeds trees, the grass and makes the world go round.

Josh, stammers into rage filled tirades when confronted on facts, sometimes smiles, often confuses and delays his customers. When he finally serves a purpose, the time has already passed.

--Can you imagine all the fights he has caused with peoples wives/husbands while he delayed peoples pre-paid miners?
--Can you imagine all the self loathing he inspired in people, who endured, when they bought into the pipe dream that turned into a nightmare?
--Can you see the scope of the endless frustration and disappointments as things dragged on and others with less...provided more?

Don't diss the feces my friends. It has its part in nature. Scammers/liars do not. They serve no purpose. They make nothing in nature grow or blossom. They just rip people off and leave a trail of tears and anger.

When you see Josh with his swagger, just nod your head his way...in a sort of buddha inspired "knowing" and pity. He's doing the best he can muster.


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January 14, 2014, 04:24:48 PM
 #543



I thought I did any excellent job of making it clear that feces are superior in every way to Josh.
Alright, just remember he was an AirForce pilot. (or somewhere thereabouts)

They spent thousands of dollars showing him how to blow shit up.

When you ask him to "build" it goes against his agile abilities to rain death and destruction.

-------------------

So when you see a miner puff some magic smoke, it means he is learning a new path of building things out of new parts rather than blowing shit up.

Just be glad there was no shrapnel or napalm. PCB's burn and melt, but they rarely mame.


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January 17, 2014, 06:25:54 AM
 #544

Another satisfied customer: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/7588-bfl-you-joking-me-order-100091147-a.html

Quote
Dear BFL,

I feel like you are joking with me.

-I've placed my order on 4th Dicember - Order #100091147. The 50 Gh/s Bitcoin Miner was labeled "IN STOCK - IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT". This is the main reason i choose to order from you. The price was 2.499 dollars.
- No news for a month. Order in status "PRODUCTION": according to you FAQ, this means that the order is currently being manufactured. So IN STOCK, was a fake..
- The same item passed from 2,499 at 989
-On 2th Jan I've received the REFUND EMAIL from you: "if you still feel like your order is taking longer than expected, feel free to request a full refund prior to your order having been shipped." My order was still in status production, so I've emailed you the same day requesting the full refund.
-On 7th Jan I've received notification from you that my order was sent! No response to my refund email. I've sent another email, asking what was going on and requesting again a full refund.
- Today, my order is on is way and i've received a reply to my emails: "All sales are final according to our terms".

Now, i see on this forum you have granted a full refund to someone, after the refund email.

I DON'T WANT the item, I WANT MY MONEY BACK:

- over 30 days from my order, despite the item was labeled as "in Stock, immediate shipment". It's now useless.
- I've sent you a request of full refund, according to your email. The request was sent when my order was in status "production", as you requested.
- The same item is now priced $984.00, down from $2,499.00.


It's all your fault, I've followed your instructions and belived to what you have advertised.
Please settle this down or I'll go through other actions.
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January 19, 2014, 12:44:06 PM
 #545

BFL:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl
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January 24, 2014, 11:24:33 AM
 #546


Wow lol that's impressive.

Pretty Crazy, but i guess I need to start using this in our daily dealings with people..


DON'T GET SCAMMED, CHECK FIRST = Bitcoinscammers.com
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January 24, 2014, 05:07:07 PM
 #547

yeah I know all about it Sad

Posted my experiences ++ all I could find out about these bastards, here: http://[Suspicious link removed]/KIaK16

NO Peace!

devnullius

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January 26, 2014, 02:03:12 PM
 #548

Another satisfied customer: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/7588-bfl-you-joking-me-order-100091147-a.html

Quote
Dear BFL,

I feel like you are joking with me.

-I've placed my order on 4th Dicember - Order #100091147. The 50 Gh/s Bitcoin Miner was labeled "IN STOCK - IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT". This is the main reason i choose to order from you. The price was 2.499 dollars.
- No news for a month. Order in status "PRODUCTION": according to you FAQ, this means that the order is currently being manufactured. So IN STOCK, was a fake..
- The same item passed from 2,499 at 989
-On 2th Jan I've received the REFUND EMAIL from you: "if you still feel like your order is taking longer than expected, feel free to request a full refund prior to your order having been shipped." My order was still in status production, so I've emailed you the same day requesting the full refund.
-On 7th Jan I've received notification from you that my order was sent! No response to my refund email. I've sent another email, asking what was going on and requesting again a full refund.
- Today, my order is on is way and i've received a reply to my emails: "All sales are final according to our terms".

Now, i see on this forum you have granted a full refund to someone, after the refund email.

I DON'T WANT the item, I WANT MY MONEY BACK:

- over 30 days from my order, despite the item was labeled as "in Stock, immediate shipment". It's now useless.
- I've sent you a request of full refund, according to your email. The request was sent when my order was in status "production", as you requested.
- The same item is now priced $984.00, down from $2,499.00.


It's all your fault, I've followed your instructions and belived to what you have advertised.
Please settle this down or I'll go through other actions.

Incidentally, this is the kind of case where if there's sufficient documentation of these transactions, you are almost guaranteed to win a small claims action.  Probably by default since these douches won't show up.  Then you can proceed to collections and, if you're interested in doing the paperwork, they'll also have to cough up the costs associated with collecting.

Basically, these creeps are counting on people not going to the inconvenience over a couple grand.  Make them wrong.
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January 26, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
 #549

Another satisfied customer: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/7588-bfl-you-joking-me-order-100091147-a.html

Quote
Dear BFL,

I feel like you are joking with me.

-I've placed my order on 4th Dicember - Order #100091147. The 50 Gh/s Bitcoin Miner was labeled "IN STOCK - IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT". This is the main reason i choose to order from you. The price was 2.499 dollars.
- No news for a month. Order in status "PRODUCTION": according to you FAQ, this means that the order is currently being manufactured. So IN STOCK, was a fake..
- The same item passed from 2,499 at 989
-On 2th Jan I've received the REFUND EMAIL from you: "if you still feel like your order is taking longer than expected, feel free to request a full refund prior to your order having been shipped." My order was still in status production, so I've emailed you the same day requesting the full refund.
-On 7th Jan I've received notification from you that my order was sent! No response to my refund email. I've sent another email, asking what was going on and requesting again a full refund.
- Today, my order is on is way and i've received a reply to my emails: "All sales are final according to our terms".

Now, i see on this forum you have granted a full refund to someone, after the refund email.

I DON'T WANT the item, I WANT MY MONEY BACK:

- over 30 days from my order, despite the item was labeled as "in Stock, immediate shipment". It's now useless.
- I've sent you a request of full refund, according to your email. The request was sent when my order was in status "production", as you requested.
- The same item is now priced $984.00, down from $2,499.00.


It's all your fault, I've followed your instructions and belived to what you have advertised.
Please settle this down or I'll go through other actions.

Incidentally, this is the kind of case where if there's sufficient documentation of these transactions, you are almost guaranteed to win a small claims action.  Probably by default since these douches won't show up.  Then you can proceed to collections and, if you're interested in doing the paperwork, they'll also have to cough up the costs associated with collecting.

Basically, these creeps are counting on people not going to the inconvenience over a couple grand.  Make them wrong.

I was told by 3 different people on forums etc that they have WON in small claims court in usa....it went nowhere ..also have had people in fourms say if you are in Europe you have a shot..they have been refunded...for what it is worth

Searing

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January 26, 2014, 02:52:26 PM
 #550

these guys were obvious.


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January 26, 2014, 05:33:14 PM
 #551

Did these scammers ever fulfill their promise of donating 1,000 BTC to charity?
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January 27, 2014, 02:27:33 AM
 #552

Did these scammers ever fulfill their promise of donating 1,000 BTC to charity?

They donated a small portion of it to charities. They rest they "donated" to themselves.

Buy & Hold
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January 27, 2014, 06:25:06 AM
 #553

Did these scammers ever fulfill their promise of donating 1,000 BTC to charity?

They donated a small portion of it to charities. They rest they "donated" to themselves.

this is unfortunately true..check out their FAQ on their page to see how they managed this

Searing

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March 31, 2014, 02:08:45 AM
 #554

Well, I just read through all 27 pages of this disaster of a thread.

Can someone take the time to distill exactly what the "scam" is?

I get that they delayed products a long time and had questionable refund practices during the delay, but is that it? Is there something wrong with the products themselves?
I had to RMA 3 of 5 my miners. One of it was DoA, from another one screw dropped out while unpacking. 4th one is constantly overheating, throttling but it is in 10% limit yet. 3 of 5 PSUs fried. New ATX PSU, downtime losses, RMA postal expenses on me.
And that happy new year letter, congratulating customers that the product they received just a month ago, after 7 months of waiting is reduced now three times.
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April 22, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
 #555

So today, there is a very interesting article on ArsTechnica about BFL. (link here)

The TL/DR Version:

1. Sonny had his parole extended for 2 years for breaching it (in reference to BFL).

2. BFL owns the Eclipse Mining Pool (bought in 2012 for $100,000) - Josh/Inaba kinda failed to mention that one...

3. BFL Lawyers set up a dummy corporation in the Bahamas which then gave 'loans' to Nassar ($150,000), VP Jeff Ownby ($26,000), Sonny ($65,000). This is despite the Bahamas company making a lose of $800,000.

4. There was $11,000,000+ in the BFL Paypal account before it was frozen.

5. To date there have been more then 6200 complaints to Paypal.

6. BFL is permanently banned from using Paypal.... by Paypal.

Veni, Vidi, Cidere, Prenda In Gen, Interlitum Verlgo Stipes, Dissiptum.
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April 22, 2014, 05:05:56 PM
 #556

If any of you like to start case in European court feel free to contact us.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=556208.0

Before you think anything bad agaisnt me based on the abused trust system,check out the link which will redirect you to the reasons why i have negative trust.
There is many proofs how the btctalk trust system is abused by trollers for no reason.
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April 22, 2014, 05:29:27 PM
 #557

So today, there is a very interesting article on ArsTechnica about BFL. (link here)

The TL/DR Version:

1. Sonny had his parole extended for 2 years for breaching it (in reference to BFL).

2. BFL owns the Eclipse Mining Pool (bought in 2012 for $100,000) - Josh/Inaba kinda failed to mention that one...

3. BFL Lawyers set up a dummy corporation in the Bahamas which then gave 'loans' to Nassar ($150,000), VP Jeff Ownby ($26,000), Sonny ($65,000). This is despite the Bahamas company making a lose of $800,000.

4. There was $11,000,000+ in the BFL Paypal account before it was frozen.

5. To date there have been more then 6200 complaints to Paypal.

6. BFL is permanently banned from using Paypal.... by Paypal.

also:

@Inaba

I found this bit interesting.  Care to explain?

Quote
One of the noteworthy revelations is that Butterfly Labs acquired a local Kansas-based Bitcoin mining pool, Eclipse Mining Consortium, for $100,000 in 2012. The pool's founder, Josh Zerlan, is now a vice president at BFL. (Zerlan publicly announced that he took a job with BFL in 2012, but he did not mention that he actually sold his company to BFL. Zerlan did not respond to a request for comment for this article.)

Are BFL using your former mining pool to "test" new miners until they are almost totally unprofitable before sending them out? 



To answer your question:


Quote

Re: Butterfly Labs Production of Requested Information

(...)

[to] Kate Mahoney, Assistant United States Attorney

(...)

The following information is submitted on behalf of Sonny Vleisides in response to your inquiry regarding various documents and information related to Butterfly Labs and Sonny Vleisides.

(...)

Eclipse Mining Consortium was a website that Butterfly Labs purchased from Josh Zerlan in 2012.

(...)

Butterfly Labs acquired the IP address and website from Mr. Zerlan for 100,000.

(...)

Butterfly Labs earns mining income from their burn testing of machines

Page 3/7: http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190032/Butterfly-Labs-Production-of-Requested-Information-December-6-2013
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September 23, 2014, 04:45:45 PM
 #558

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/feds-label-bitcoin-miner-maker-butterfly-labs-as-systematic-deception/


I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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September 24, 2014, 09:03:35 PM
 #559

The only people you find complaining on Bitcointalk for the most part are competitors or known trolls like Entropy, Bicknellski, etc...

To answer your question though: No there is nothing valid they bring to the table that qualifies as a scam. Just angry butt hurt trolls who can't stand the fact that all their idiotic "predictions" and false claims turned out to be lies and they are exposed for what they are. So they try to flood the threads and forum with more junk in hopes that people will forget.

try not to drop the soap beeyotch !

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September 25, 2014, 12:46:06 PM
 #560

The only people you find complaining on Bitcointalk for the most part are competitors or known trolls like Entropy, Bicknellski, etc...

To answer your question though: No there is nothing valid they bring to the table that qualifies as a scam. Just angry butt hurt trolls who can't stand the fact that all their idiotic "predictions" and false claims turned out to be lies and they are exposed for what they are. So they try to flood the threads and forum with more junk in hopes that people will forget.

This sounds almost like the crooks at Black Arrow who told the media that I work for an ASIC manufacturer as the reason for deleting my posts. The reporter was in the middle of browsing the thread for his story when BA fired up their auto-deletion bot on my posts and other customers who made too much noise; the thread shrank from 420 to 370 pages.
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