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Question: Which of these most closely resembles your political position?
Anarcho-Capitalist - 31 (40.8%)
Left-Wing Anarchist - 9 (11.8%)
Classical Liberal - 6 (7.9%)
Socialist - 11 (14.5%)
American Liberal - 4 (5.3%)
American Conservative - 1 (1.3%)
Other (please specify) - 10 (13.2%)
Apolitical/Non-Ideological - 4 (5.3%)
Total Voters: 75

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Author Topic: Your Political Perspective?  (Read 7140 times)
Findeton
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June 13, 2011, 03:06:40 PM
 #21

I'm socialist. Which, btw, is different from communist. I mean, every 1st world country is socialist up to some degree: they have universal health care (except for the US), police, firemen, public schools etc.

Thats not the definition of socialist. I think you mean you are a social-democrat.

Well, there was no Social-democrat option here, and socialist inside a democracy is the same than social-democrat.

American liberal is social-democrat.

Not everybody here is north -merican, I'm european. How am I supposed to know that?

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June 13, 2011, 03:15:58 PM
 #22

from own history.
A Hitler for example, was felow social-democrat, marxist, German red army member[#007. how ironic Fleming was] and mason. and very enjoyed "education" after US tour/visit result, fanatically enthusiastic about US-based-colleagues imposed/proposed/suggested social transformations.
other history figures fate was indicative[enough]/educative, too.
just pick a [random]history book from [library]shelves and enjoy [careful]reading.
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June 13, 2011, 04:33:58 PM
 #23

Not everybody here is north -merican, I'm european. How am I supposed to know that?

You know now. Wink

PS: From a fellow ex-social-democrat, now turned libertarian. Social-democracies are evil, they hurt the poor.
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June 13, 2011, 04:40:47 PM
 #24

Quote
socialism |ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m|
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The only thing I'd add is it also refers to factors of production controlled by the state (AKA. public sector).

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Findeton
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June 13, 2011, 05:19:42 PM
 #25

Quote
socialism |ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m|
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The only thing I'd add is it also refers to factors of production controlled by the state (AKA. public sector).

Part of the means of production should be owned by the community, and the rest should be regulated by the community.

PS: From a fellow ex-social-democrat, now turned libertarian. Social-democracies are evil, they hurt the poor.

Actual social-democracies are a farce, because, for example, there are politicians between your ideas and the making of laws.

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June 13, 2011, 05:23:01 PM
 #26


Part of the means of production should be owned by the community, and the rest should be regulated by the community.

So this can't be done without guns?
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June 13, 2011, 05:32:03 PM
 #27

Actual social-democracies are a farce, because, for example, there are politicians between your ideas and the making of laws.

Yes, that's what happens when you delegate the right to make decisions about your life to someone else. That someone else makes those decisions (unsurprisingly) in a manner that benefits them, as opposed to a manner that benefits you.

As for me, I am 100% Agorist. This is AnCap, put to use now.

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Findeton
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June 13, 2011, 08:54:53 PM
 #28


Part of the means of production should be owned by the community, and the rest should be regulated by the community.

So this can't be done without guns?

I like the idea that a Government and a State exists so it enforces the law to everyone. For me the definition of State is monopoly of violence.

Yes, that's what happens when you delegate the right to make decisions about your life to someone else. That someone else makes those decisions (unsurprisingly) in a manner that benefits them, as opposed to a manner that benefits you.

As for me, I am 100% Agorist. This is AnCap, put to use now.


I support the Internet Party in Spain (PDI = Partido de Internet), which advocates for liquid democracy. Meaning that you can vote directly every law, or become a representative, or change your representative, at any given time.

In Spain we have  government-issued electronic National ID Cards (called here DNIe) we can use to id ourselves in the Agora Ciudadana software project (the software is still being written).

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June 13, 2011, 08:59:09 PM
 #29


Part of the means of production should be owned by the community, and the rest should be regulated by the community.

So this can't be done without guns?

I like the idea that a Government and a State exists so it enforces the law to everyone. For me the definition of State is monopoly of violence.

Yes, that's what happens when you delegate the right to make decisions about your life to someone else. That someone else makes those decisions (unsurprisingly) in a manner that benefits them, as opposed to a manner that benefits you.

As for me, I am 100% Agorist. This is AnCap, put to use now.


I support the Internet Party in Spain (PDI = Partido de Internet), which advocates for liquid democracy. Meaning that you can vote directly every law, or become a representative, or change your representative, at any given time. We have electronic National ID Cards (called here DNIe) we can use to id ourselves in the Agora Ciudadana software project (the software is still being written).

Liquid democracy inherently exists. It's called voluntary trade. You pay for what it is relevant to you, whether it be the happiness of others or the food you eat. I'm sorry it doesn't allow you to enslave your neighbors so you can get your homeless friend Joe five star public housing.
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June 13, 2011, 09:08:48 PM
 #30

I support the Internet Party in Spain (PDI = Partido de Internet), which advocates for liquid democracy. Meaning that you can vote directly every law, or become a representative, or change your representative, at any given time.

A liquid democracy may just be the only one that works... of course it is still rule of the strong oppressing the weak.

In Spain we have  government-issued electronic National ID Cards (called here DNIe) we can use to id ourselves in the Agora Ciudadana software project (the software is still being written).

I can only assume that was in response to my being Agorist. I can further only assume that you have no idea what Agorism is.

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June 13, 2011, 10:40:48 PM
 #31

I support the Internet Party in Spain (PDI = Partido de Internet), which advocates for liquid democracy. Meaning that you can vote directly every law, or become a representative, or change your representative, at any given time.

A liquid democracy may just be the only one that works... of course it is still rule of the strong oppressing the weak.
I have yet to see a system perpetuated by force working sustainably.
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June 14, 2011, 01:58:34 AM
 #32

Somewhere between an Agorist/Ancap, but I have pretty unique views on most things, so it's hard to pinpoint.

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June 14, 2011, 02:15:13 AM
 #33

I have yet to see a system perpetuated by force working sustainably.

Well, neither have I, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible.

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June 14, 2011, 05:03:11 AM
 #34

Actual social-democracies are a farce, because, for example, there are politicians between your ideas and the making of laws.

It doesnt matter. If you create a system that is managed completely by assemblies it would be even worse in a lot of senses. Assemblies are slow, suffer heavily from imperfect inforamtion, dont have a price system and worse of all heavily promote political darwinism.

Having a system run by assemblies is basically imposible and would drive any nation into extreme poverty. Its poverty exploitation.
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June 14, 2011, 05:11:41 AM
 #35

Having a system run by assemblies is basically imposible and would drive any nation into extreme poverty. Its poverty exploitation.

In my experience, every system of government is just a way to drive a geographical region into poverty, it's just a matter of how long it takes.

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June 14, 2011, 06:36:43 AM
 #36

nice to see there are a fair amount of classical anarchists (libertarian socialists) and socialists here. (Spare me the handwringing about the gulag and the politburo please, as you conveniently missed the libertarian part of libertarian socialism). I guess I'm a communist on the small scale, but for the purposes of larger scale interactions and sociopolitical systems I'm somewhere around the mutualism camp. I believe that the individualist/collectivist cleavage that has always been around in anarchist thought is not insurmountable, but I do believe far far too many "libertarians" or "anarcho-capitalists" don't do near enough critiquing of the status quo outside of the violence that the tax man uses to steal their buckets, I mean duckets. I am much more interested about building new structures within the cracks of the old and exploring mutual aid/non-hierarchical/consent in the context of building new organizations and communities and spaces where people have the ability to explore what the actually want their world to look like.
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June 14, 2011, 03:49:25 PM
 #37

but I do believe far far too many "libertarians" or "anarcho-capitalists" don't do near enough critiquing of the status quo outside of the violence that the tax man uses to steal their buckets

Not even close to true. Maybe it seems that way because your interactions with individualist libertarians are quite low, but I can attest to the fact that libertarians are heavily involved in questioning the status quo on just about everything. A great example would be the movement within libertarianism that deals heavily in parenting and education techniques.

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June 14, 2011, 04:08:44 PM
 #38

The big evils get the big attention. Also, most libertarians figure that when you knock down the big problem (Tax) the smaller ones will either fall with, or fall much easier.

That said, Yes, do go check out the Unschooling movement, and as for building new systems within the cracks of the old, check out Agorism.

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June 15, 2011, 12:48:19 AM
 #39

To anyone that calls themselves a communist or socialist: Did the Soviet Union prove anything?

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June 15, 2011, 09:34:06 AM
 #40

I voted an-cap, because I think that is what a anarchy founded on the NAP will end up being.
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