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The Madhatter
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October 05, 2010, 09:42:38 PM
Last edit: October 05, 2010, 09:54:44 PM by The MadHatter |
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No -- you are making the assumption that a cash-only existence is possible for large criminals. If what you say is true, then money laundering would not exist, because it would not be necessary.
That's exactly what I'm saying. It isn't only possible; they do it! Money laundering directly through a bank is unnecessary and stupid. The criminals that end up on the news are the stupid ones who thought it was necessary. But it does. Drug kingpins have so much cash it is quite literally a problem of size. After paying all their flunkies, and buying illegal guns and such, they are still stuck with bales of FRNs. That's why the Feds target any place that might accept large amounts of cash for legitimate items -- cars, houses, boats, non-illegal businesses.
You are still thinking too small. Large criminals simply start their own factories to manufacture arms, cars, and boats. They launder through businesses, not banks! Once they are large enough, they lobby (aka "bribe") politicians to protect their operations through legislation/turning a blind eye to it all. I can provide many examples upon request. I've seen many city blocks of construction in Moscow that was all built with drug proceeds. The cash was paid directly to the construction workers. (Where is the bank? I don't see one?) This construction wasn't just allowed, but it was given the full cooperation of government. The buildings were either rented (clean legal income from renters), or sold (clean income again). The only reason this job was figured out was that a government official wasn't paid enough and said something about it. (A rare occurrence.) Think about all of the times it happens unnoticed. By the time the government went after these criminals they had disappeared and were busy working on their next business in another country. I should say at this time that I do not condone criminal activity. Crime is a social problem that must be understood in order to stop/prevent it. |
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Anonymous
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October 06, 2010, 06:33:39 AM |
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The government is an organised gang. "Outlaw gangs" at least they have a code of honour.  |
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Babylon
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October 06, 2010, 10:35:27 PM |
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The government is an organised gang. "Outlaw gangs" at least they have a code of honour. So does the government. It's the set of laws which they follow. |
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MoonShadow
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October 06, 2010, 11:28:22 PM |
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The government is an organised gang. "Outlaw gangs" at least they have a code of honour. So does the government. It's the set of laws which they follow. They don't always follow them, they just expect all of us to follow them. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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Anonymous
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October 06, 2010, 11:48:03 PM |
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The government is an organised gang. "Outlaw gangs" at least they have a code of honour. So does the government. It's the set of laws which they follow. Yeah but there is no repurcussions for breaking them. If you break the outlaw gangs laws they break your legs. |
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grondilu (OP)
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October 07, 2010, 12:47:56 AM |
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Yeah but there is no repurcussions for breaking them. If you break the outlaw gangs laws they break your legs.
More precisely, if a government have a law voted that is illegal or unconstitutionnal, at some point it *might* (it's not even sure) receive a disapproval from a higher authority (constitutionnal consil, UNO, human right association, whatever...). But they get away with it with no real sanction, they can just apologize and vote a almost identical law. The whole thing is a joke. |
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Babylon
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October 08, 2010, 06:44:08 PM |
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The government is an organised gang. "Outlaw gangs" at least they have a code of honour. So does the government. It's the set of laws which they follow. They don't always follow them, they just expect all of us to follow them. This is also true of the outlaw gangs. One is not better than the other, they are better and worse in different ways, partly due to differing codes of honor, partly due to matters of scale. |
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molsewid
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May 24, 2021, 05:16:58 AM |
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I do care about organised crime using bitcoin.
The fact that a technology can be abused does not make that technology immoral. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore such abuse. We will never be able to eliminate a degree of abuse but we can use our common sense and refuse to do business with people who seem fishy. On a strictly voluntary basis of course. If the Bitcoin economy becomes too dominated by criminals it will hurt Bitcoin's reputation.
i agree. if we continue to just blindly accept that organized crimes use bitcoin for their finances, it may affect the normal citizens who uses bitcoin on the long run. bitcoin may enter controversies which may lead to something permanent and can affect the overall process and flow of bitcoin due to the pressure of maybe the government or media (which is a lot considering we live in a digital age and that bitcoin is basically a digital wallet.) we have to figure out and do something about it. |
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Obito
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May 24, 2021, 05:26:43 AM |
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The government is an organised gang. "Outlaw gangs" at least they have a code of honour. What a dumbass, those code of honor from these "Outlaw" gangs only apply if your life isn't in danger, code of honor is not something physical so it can easily be broken. I don't worry too much about crime syndicate using cryptocurrencies, it's the law enforcement agencies task to take them down not mine. |
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electronicash
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May 24, 2021, 05:51:38 AM |
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fiat is being used by criminals and it's worse because there is no trial to it, unlike bitcoin where they can be traced. you can ask chainalysis for it. BTC will not be dominated by people who will use it for a crime, the ones who uses BTC up to today are speculators, that's why they gamblers risking whichever the market goes. The government is an organised gang. "Outlaw gangs" at least they have a code of honour. What a dumbass, those code of honor from these "Outlaw" gangs only apply if your life isn't in danger, code of honor is not something physical so it can easily be broken. I don't worry too much about crime syndicate using cryptocurrencies, it's the law enforcement agencies task to take them down not mine. i won't worry about that either. there are law enforcers, they should catch up with the technology. |
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wahyu wida
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May 24, 2021, 06:53:05 AM |
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I do care about organised crime using bitcoin.
The fact that a technology can be abused does not make that technology immoral. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore such abuse. We will never be able to eliminate a degree of abuse but we can use our common sense and refuse to do business with people who seem fishy. On a strictly voluntary basis of course. If the Bitcoin economy becomes too dominated by criminals it will hurt Bitcoin's reputation.
i agree. if we continue to just blindly accept that organized crimes use bitcoin for their finances, it may affect the normal citizens who uses bitcoin on the long run. bitcoin may enter controversies which may lead to something permanent and can affect the overall process and flow of bitcoin due to the pressure of maybe the government or media (which is a lot considering we live in a digital age and that bitcoin is basically a digital wallet.) we have to figure out and do something about it. therefore the role of the government is needed here, the government can actually investigate this crime, but the legislation in force is not yet strong, so it seems to stop. Besides that, indeed with the existence of organized crime that uses bitcoin, it has a bad impact on normal residents who also use it. therefore hopefully the government will immediately consider it |
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Obito
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May 24, 2021, 06:54:41 AM |
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~snip
i won't worry about that either. there are law enforcers, they should catch up with the technology. That's what I said and catching up with technology is a difficult thing to do for law enforcement because they have a limited budget and every year it gets little because they get budget cuts. Another problem is that they have a really archaic approach that they think works for cyber crimes but it doesn't so I think more than catching up with technology, they have to change everything. |
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Ucy
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Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.
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May 24, 2021, 04:01:05 PM |
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Same way it's foolish/lawless to ban bananna because criminals are perverting its usage, misusing or abusing it.
The wise goes after the criminals and let the good banana be... or even put things in place to prevent the misuse or abuse of bananna.
It's OK to ban bad/unsafe bananna though
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Twentyonepaylots
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May 24, 2021, 09:11:09 PM |
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The end doesn't justify the means, so they say. So to ban bitcoin to ward of criminals isn't really going to lower the crime rate any soon. What would lower it though is proper governance, and a much more interactive police force. People should stop putting the blame to something they don't know nothing about. Just like your analogy, it's not logical to ban bitcoin the same way it is not logical to ban fast cars because thieves love to use them for their crimes.
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decodx
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May 24, 2021, 09:24:20 PM |
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Same way it's foolish/lawless to ban bananna because criminals are perverting its usage, misusing or abusing it.
The wise goes after the criminals and let the good banana be... or even put things in place to prevent the misuse or abuse of bananna.
It's OK to ban bad/unsafe bananna though
I'm sorry, but how do criminals misuse or abuse bananas? |
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Kong Hey Pakboy
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May 26, 2021, 08:05:01 AM |
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Why would they do that though? They won't get anything from it but the ire of the community which is steadily increasing by the year. Also, they won't be able to reduce crimes with that and people will find a way to use bitcoin even though it becomes illegal.
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Gozie51
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May 26, 2021, 09:03:12 AM |
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I don't worry too much about crime syndicate using cryptocurrencies, it's the law enforcement agencies task to take them down not mine.
Yes bitcoin is not only the area that crimes are committed, there are other ways that even organised crimes have been committed and the state has not been able to tackle it properly. Many people have killed people but are still working the streets because of bad governance and corruption which is mean problem and not bitcoin. Of course before bitcoin is used for any illicit transaction, it would have been fiat that is converted into bitcoin for the crime purpose, so the government should check the fiat being converted into bitcoin. |
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imstillthebest
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May 26, 2021, 09:38:53 AM |
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you should care if you are a bitcoiner because crimes using bitcoins affects the reputation of bitcoin . do you like it when someone says bitcoins is a scam and a tool use by criminals ? i heard it everywhere and it breaks my heart . organized crime that is done by two or more people is is more serious than unorganized crime done by a single person because they can dealt a lot of damage . There are other ways to fight criminals than tracking their expenses if the crime happens in btc . tracking their btc transaction can help solved the crime than using methods that are not connected to btc |
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Mauser
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May 26, 2021, 10:31:16 AM |
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A thread from 2010, wow that's really old. I don't think much has changed in the last 12 years. Criminals have been using crypto currencies to scam people and save their money. But there is no real difference to fiat money. If there were no cryptos these people would still be criminals and just use normal fiat money. The only thing that really changed is that more people use cryptos, so the majority today are definitely not criminals.
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hannahB4
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May 27, 2021, 03:32:57 PM |
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We should not be bothered about this because like the example you came there are quite a number of things which are harmful to even human beings are being sold in society today because of one or two ways helpful and we can't stop investing because of some category of people who fails to see the positive thing to do with bitcoin.
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