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Author Topic: Betcoin.ag Shills  (Read 884 times)
TwitchySeal
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February 15, 2016, 09:46:11 PM
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I'd like to keep this thread focused on whether or not there's substantial evidence that ftwbtc1 is an account controlled by Betcoin Management.  I'm really just looking for objective opinions on this specific topic.

I've been at war with Betcoin for months now, and I truly believe that I am right and they are wrong about most of the issues discussed in THIS THREAD

But It's tough for me to look at this situation without bias and I don't have a smoking gun, so I'm interested in others opinions here, especially if you aren't too involved in the "gambling community" or at least Betcoin.




I've already proven that ftwbtc1 and noobtc are the same person using multiple accounts for the sole purpose of protecting the reputation of Betcoin.ag (you can read about that HERE)
Now I want to explain why I believe the person who has been posting as ftwbtc1 since June 2014 and noobtc more recently is "Betcoin Jessica", a member of Betcoin management who also controls the official Betcoin.ag on this forum.


First, for those who haven't spent much time dealing with Betcoin support directly, let me explain some of the tactics used by Betcoin management on their own forums/trollbox and here at BTCTalk. These are all used in place of addressing the issue directly and attempting to find a transparent resolution. (I don't really want these tactics to derail thread, but I think explaining them is the best way to point out the connections later)

They will often just tell the player directly:
  • "Play where you are happiest"  this is their "nice" way of saying "If you don't like it then fuck off"

    If the player doesn't doesn't let the issue go, they might point out:
  • "You're still here, that must be because we make you happiest (you're welcome for making you happy)"  (they have used this on current players, banned players and players who hadn't played on their site in months)
  • "Look how many log ins we have but only 2 or 3 complainers, we must be pretty awesome"
  • "We must be doing a really great job since we have so many logins right now and we keep getting more and more new players every day! WOW!"
  • "You're complaints can't be valid since you're the only ones complaining"

Reverse psychology:
  • We are HAPPY that you just accused us of doing something horrible in public.  No really, we are.
  • Please, keep posting you important questions, if we didn't like it we would ask you to stop. (But if you post them on our forum, we will delete them and ban you)
  • We're fascinated with the amount of effort put into these complaints which are invalid.  (you're crazy)
  • Thanks for bumping our thread, this is great for our business!  If it weren't for you, we wouldn't be so successful and we feel bad that we are the ones profiting from your posts so here's a pity bonus "




Here are some examples of Betcoin using these tactics:




And this one from Betcoin, likely the same person as "Betcoin Jessica":

We thank you for your interest in this as we agree it has been very interesting to see our thread consistently receiving comments mainly from the same 2-3 people, four if you include us.  As the forum rep, my role is to keep the forum abreast as to the updates at Betcoin.ag and we will continue to do so.  Thank you!

These are pms between Betcoin and myself:

You've already banned me.

If you would rather I weren't banned, you would unban me.  Please stop saying things that conflict with the actions of Betcoin.

I can ask as many questions as I want only because you can't stop stop me.  

If you could, you would.

You've proven that by deleting the same questions when I asked them on your forum and eventually banning me so I couldn't ask them in chat.

I still have not received answers to many questions even months after asking them.

Acting as if I am helping you by exposing your lies and unethical practices is just childish and I can't see how anyone would believe you would ban me from your site for doing something that you were glad I was doing.


Yes, you have been banned.  

Yes, the community is a lot smoother and we can focus on fixing remaining issues and adding future additions.  

We would not stop you, because this is the proper forum for it.  We would encourage you as you ask important questions.  We are working on a wide variety of things right now from all of our members including you but asking multiple times a day just is not necessary.

You are definitely helping bring in new users and we appreciate it.  

Again, I am just the forum rep and this has also been a good experience for me as well.  

Much rather than ban you.  We don't want to ban anybody.

Even you stated in an earlier message you can see why you have been banned.

You can ask as many questions as you want and we encourage it.  Notice we have never asked you once to stop posting.  As the forum rep, I have never been busier!  

Betcoin is working on many things brought up from all of our great players and will get to everything in time.  

Again, we appreciate your vigor and posts.  You should be earning from the traffic you are sending over.  

We would actually much rather have you back in the community.  Our staff is working on much of the great feedback you and all of our players have provided.  I am the forum rep and as advised by owners, staff etc. going back and forth in a forum is never productive, but staying on the first page in the thread is very beneficial for Betcoin as the referrals from BitcoinTalk have never been higher.  We will continue to work hard to make everything as perfect as possible at Betcoin and you will always be welcome back.  



Here are some posts from ftwbtc1 which seem using the same tactics, and similar writing style:



I know you want back in because nobody in their right mind would waste this much time spamming unless they wanted to get back involved.  Perhaps you have friends you want to talk to there or miss playing the tournaments or whatever else you did there.  I can personally say that in chat I have seen people talk about you in a positive light and even seen a discussion led by Betcoin staff member asking how to bring you back in.  Examining these communications, they probably would welcome you back, but fear that you would spam their forum as much as you spam here.  Plus, if you don't intend to play there, why does it matter if you are banned or not? Personally, I am indifferent I see some good in the things you have mentioned but a lot of bad in your approach.  It definitely makes sense to me why you are banned.  

EDIT:  By the way, I have said many times that I would stop commenting on this topic, but quite frankly I am fascinated. Perhaps I can mediate this matter.  

We thank you for your interest in this as we agree it has been very interesting to see our thread consistently receiving comments mainly from the same 2-3 people, four if you include us.  As the forum rep, my role is to keep the forum abreast as to the updates at Betcoin.ag and we will continue to do so.  Thank you!

Why not play somewhere else?  I play at many different places, but you should play where you are happiest.  I enjoy the community here at Betcoin the most and hope they add the WPN tournaments back in, but casino, sports and dice I also play.  

Would that make it ok for Betcoin to behave this way?

(Currently I am playing over 50 hours a week across 4 different sites, Betcoin has not been one of them.  The last time I included Betcoin in my regular schedule was October 11th, working on explaining why now  )

Yes, you sound like a child.  Take your money elsewhere. I have had a wonderful time at Betcoin and enjoy the community and all of the options of gameplay.  I have also seen you in the player chat and have no idea why you literally spend all day in there.  If I don't like a line at Betcoin Sports I have many other great options to spend my bitcoin on and so do you.  If you don't like it, you also have many great options as well.  Is this a personal issue you have with Betcoin?  

I understand I have the option to play elsewhere, I've already explained I rarely play on Betcoin anymore - and may never again.  Currently I'm playing on WPN through 5dimes, 4 mtts $109, $44, $33 and $160 buyins, all funded by bitcoin. (sn = goatofgoats) So telling me to "go somewhere else" doesn't really make any sense.  "forget about betcoin and stop trying to hold them accountable" would make more sense.

I'm doing this because I truly believe its the right thing to do

Dude are you serious? I see you continue to post and I see more and more action in Betcoin ring games and Betcoin tournaments.  You realize that you are bumping this thread and keeping Betcoin in the top spot here?  I see several hundred people playing daily including many very high stakes players and I never see them complaining...



Betcoin should hire you as their forum / pr rep because you seem to spend a lot of time answering the Betcoin trolls and do a pretty good job at it.  The entire interaction is really quite fascinating.  

For some great sports picks check out my posts in the forum here and at Betcoin.ag.  I think there is great opportunity in eSports wagering because it is so new.  


www.betcoin.ag has a very aggressive lossback and betback VIP system.  https://www.betcoin.ag/vip

One of the best in the industry on this and it also includes rakeback for all of you poker players.  

did you read this?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=962440.msg13778057#msg13778057

maybe you should stop showing their signature

I read that and Betcoin.ag is the best online all around bitcoin casino and they do offer betback, lossback and rakeback.  There are over 50 participants in their signature program and I see more and more people want to join.  

Don't get caught up in the trolls.  The more popular a site gets the more trolls they get.  Meanwhile I see more new players and activity at Betcoin.ag everyday. I should also add that I enjoy NitrogenSports and used to play at Seals but still play at ACR from time to time.  


You logged in today.  Thank you for coming back. We definitely consider ourselves lucky to be able to provide a wonderful service to so many great people that continues to grow and we certainly will be here to help our great customers anytime.  Thank you for your support!

I did indeed, I sent a message to those in the community that I was moving on, I guess the post about Nitrogen and 5dimes wasn't appreciated as I saw it was deleted. Not sure why, as that original post was already there, I just added a line. With the disgruntlement over the sports book reliability I wanted to let people know of the many different options that exist that are actually reliable. However, I do understand the competing books have potential to harm your business if they provide exactly the same lines with more reliability. Hope both the sportsbook issues and the WPN connectivity delays are resolved soon for you.

If you'd prefer that I didn't login, please go ahead and delete my account, I won't need it anymore for wagering. The cryptic loyalty program with misleading facts really doesn't do anything for me, so if I changed my mind, starting over wouldn't impact me in the least.

It seems like I am missing something.  In player chat, it always seemed like you were winning, therefore I am interested to know did you win or lose a lot at Betcoin, did they pay you out timely if you won?  My wagering amounts aren't very much but I have had only great experiences with the customer support and love the community.  Also, I hope they get the WPN tournaments back soon because I play poker as well as sports, casino and dice, and really enjoy their loyalty program.  I for one will miss you in there, but you should play where you are happiest.  The fact that you keep responding in here and admit logging in to Betcoin (which I personally doubted) indicates to me you don't want to leave.  Maybe you should message them privately and see if you can resolve some issue that you have.  

I go to Betcoin.ag and see more people playing poker, communicating in the forum, the sportsbook, casino and the dice tournaments than ever. 270 people online right.  Keep doing what you are doing guys because as this forum proves you can't please everyone.  

You should all play where you enjoy playing.  Quite frankly, looking at the time some of you spend on here if you put that into something productive you could actually provide some type of value.  I enjoy my experience on Betcoin and get nearly 150% rakeback on my play.  There is no other website online offering this for poker play right now.  I also play on ACR if there is an issue with Betcoin but the value is far less where I get about 33% rakeback.  Also, I get the same amount of rakeback from tourneys on ACR as I do on Betcoin so the value for Betcoin combined with the community and the other activities, sportsbook, dice, and casino makes it the best place for me to play. I see hundreds of people playing at Betcoin everyday and only the same 3 people complaining.  Why not just focus your time and play somewhere else?


Edit: later discovered very similar activity times.



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February 16, 2016, 06:30:24 PM
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Betcoin.ag poker room and casino/sportsbook is the best there is online.There customer support only wants what is good for the players to have a positive and fun online gaming experience.I wouldnt recommend playing anywhere else but betcoin.ag online.Plus they have a great great chat room for players to interact. Betcoin.ag is where its at !!! Smiley
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February 20, 2016, 04:58:20 AM
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Betcoin.ag poker room and casino/sportsbook is the best there is online.There customer support only wants what is good for the players to have a positive and fun online gaming experience.I wouldnt recommend playing anywhere else but betcoin.ag online.Plus they have a great great chat room for players to interact. Betcoin.ag is where its at !!! Smiley

Its stuff like this that makes you look very bad, Betcoin.AG

Bottom line, your business model might be based on a real sportsbook/casino/pokerroom - but the difference between the real ones (fully licensed and issued by a government - speaking about Corals, Bet365, Unibet etc.) and you is that you are using a tiny loophole (which isnt even one in the end...you know theres a timelimit), thats fine and it works but like everything else that way: The pyramid will crash thanks to bad money management and fantasy targets.

And yea, go ahead, you can check me on your site, same name... didnt do much... few bets and some poker... for fun... but thats what it is, for fun, cause you have to be seriously brain damaged to put alot of money into something that, NO MATTER WHAT, cant be held accountable for - when it announces the "end".

I honestly believe you will survive 2016 fine (who wouldnt want to with the Euro 2016 coming up) - but you already disqualified yourself numerous times of being some sort of "genuine business company" ... why you dont ask Phil over at WPN whether he loves hearing stories of you... but anyway, he loves getting the fees...

So - its not a full scam, its not actually any scam ... its just a bunch of amateurs running out of money and ideas...

 

Fuck the signature - if you are so desperate for money why dont you go and get a fucking job first - once you did that, perhaps you will think twice what kind of shit you want to be affiliated with.
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February 22, 2016, 01:27:56 PM
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February 23, 2016, 12:34:05 PM
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So, are you basing your accusation on similar writing styles? You should at least take a more scientific approach, I remember someone on this forum designed an algorithm to test two users' writing and concluded about how likely it was that they were the same person based on that. A few pet words indicate nothing, they might be from the same country/region, for example (I have heard many Arabs saying "last but not least" once and again,  or Indians excessively using the word "sir", I am not going to conclude they are all the same person because of that).

Same for posting activity, I think that one is a common pattern (I more or less have it, of course adjusted to my own time zone). The best you can conclude from that is that (again) they probably live "close" to each other.

All the best,
98789.

(wait, am I Michelle/Directdice for writing that? Cheesy).

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February 23, 2016, 01:15:49 PM
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snip
Trying to identify alt accounts through correlation of activity times is stupid and ineffective. All that doing this proves is that they are active around the same times, which could be linked to something as general as a timezone.
TwitchySeal
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February 23, 2016, 11:40:15 PM
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So, are you basing your accusation on similar writing styles? You should at least take a more scientific approach, I remember someone on this forum designed an algorithm to test two users' writing and concluded about how likely it was that they were the same person based on that. A few pet words indicate nothing, they might be from the same country/region, for example (I have heard many Arabs saying "last but not least" once and again,  or Indians excessively using the word "sir", I am not going to conclude they are all the same person because of that).

Same for posting activity, I think that one is a common pattern (I more or less have it, of course adjusted to my own time zone). The best you can conclude from that is that (again) they probably live "close" to each other.

All the best,
98789.

(wait, am I Michelle/Directdice for writing that? Cheesy).

No, I'm not basing it off similar writing style.  I didn't even notice the similarities until after I was suspicious and started investigating.

I'm basing my accusation on the following facts (which have been proven):

  • Both accounts have told blatant lies to protect or build Betcoin.ag reputation.
  • Betcoin.ag offers rewards to certain players if they leave good reviews or defend Betcoin in their thread. (so they consider posts like this valuable)
  • ftwbtc has been praising betcoin or defending them since summer 2014.  He only started posting on Betcoin forums last month.  His Betcoin account was created only last month.
  • Nobody I have spoken to has ever seen ftwbtc playing poker or post a betslip.
  • Posts mentioning these facts about ftwbtc are removed from Betcoin forum.
  • ftwbtc has at least 1 alt account, which he has interacted with in threads that the alt was attacking me and praising Betcoin.ag



I agree, similar writing styles or a few "pet words" proves very little. I'm not sure why you thought that was the basis of my claim though.





snip
Trying to identify alt accounts through correlation of activity times is stupid and ineffective. All that doing this proves is that they are active around the same times, which could be linked to something as general as a timezone.

Agree.  I suggest you read OP, which was made a week before I even realized they had identical activity times.


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February 24, 2016, 02:10:26 PM
 #8

I agree, similar writing styles or a few "pet words" proves very little. I'm not sure why you thought that was the basis of my claim though.

I am not sure if I read it bad, but I understood the following:
You have already proved that ftwbtc has (at lest) one alt.
You believe ftwbtc might be under control of "Betcoin Jessica", here.
You present the sarcastic answers "Betcoin Jessica" gives (I would say I agree that their customer support sometimes is disrespectful; even if you asked the most idiotic questions they must stay polite).
You show some quotes of Betcoin.ag using "Betcoin Jessica"'s style.
You move on to quote some replies from ftwbtc exhibiting similar tactics and writing style (both of which more or less refer to writing style, IMO).
You add their posting activity times as an extra proof.

  • Both accounts have told blatant lies to protect or build Betcoin.ag reputation.
I have no idea if what they say are lies or not, but casinos usually have their fanboys blindly defending them (right now I can recall SatoshiDice and Betcoin.tm, and Directdice, but I guess no serious claim has raised against them).

  • Betcoin.ag offers rewards to certain players if they leave good reviews or defend Betcoin in their thread. (so they consider posts like this valuable)
That sucks, but many sites do it. There are businesses/app developers buying reviews to start with a five star rating, that is extremely dishonest. There are lots of threads giving away BTC for posting "why you like/what you like the most about this site", to me that is nearly the same.

  • ftwbtc has been praising betcoin or defending them since summer 2014.  He only started posting on Betcoin forums last month.  His Betcoin account was created only last month.
  • Nobody I have spoken to has ever seen ftwbtc playing poker or post a betslip.
He could have another account to which he lost access (forgot password, banned, stopped liking his nick, etc.). My rollin account has a different name that the one I have here (because I forgot the password to the first one and I had not added a recovery option yet). I also use different account names in other sites (Bitvest, Directbet Casino and probably a few others I cannot remember right now). I wonder how many people have seen "me" (98789) in those places...

  • Posts mentioning these facts about ftwbtc are removed from Betcoin forum.
That is suspicious, I agree, but it depends on the quality/language of those posts. They could be considered spam (I came here because I read your annoying roslinpl Grin).

  • ftwbtc has at least 1 alt account, which he has interacted with in threads that the alt was attacking me and praising Betcoin.ag
It is a common use of alts, backing yourself up. It would be very sketchy if he only used his alt for that purpose, though.

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