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Author Topic: ppcoin market crash  (Read 3261 times)
Jutarul
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January 15, 2013, 09:19:24 AM
 #1

It would probably help with the trust in the currency if the proposed changes in the code (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114994.msg1454860#msg1454860) are reviewable and discussed publicly, before they come online.

By keeping the development a secret you loose trust - short term and long term. The current drop in ppc price is likely not a risk mitigation by investors, but a dump. That also explains the wide gap between bids and asks.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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January 15, 2013, 10:49:09 AM
 #2

Yeah trades at exchange.zapto.org are extremely thin, only a couple buys/sells.

more or less retired.
Atruk
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January 15, 2013, 11:31:11 AM
 #3

Yeah trades at exchange.zapto.org are extremely thin, only a couple buys/sells.

Vircurex only has five outstanding buys orders on its book. Maybe PP is doing better on an Open Transactions server somewhere, but it doesn't seem like anyone is buying it.

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January 15, 2013, 05:02:19 PM
 #4

Most of the PPCoin is being traded at the following site, 118k in the last 24 hours.

https://ppcexchange.bitparking.com/main

PPCoin has been largely unaffected by the rise in the cost of BTC until now. It seems that time is catching up with PPC and it is now finding its value in a $14BTC world.
wormbog
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January 15, 2013, 06:51:52 PM
 #5

Possibly people are realizing that with no merchants accepting PPC there's little hope for the widespread adoption that would drive the price up.
Jutarul
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January 15, 2013, 06:58:55 PM
 #6

Possibly people are realizing that with no merchants accepting PPC there's little hope for the widespread adoption that would drive the price up.

The main purpose of PPC right now is to field test the proof of stake concept as a viable solution to establish network security. And that's what the analysis should focus on right now. As such it's a hedge against POW implemented in bitcoin. I don't expect merchants to adopt it anytime soon.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
wormbog
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January 15, 2013, 08:12:35 PM
 #7

Possibly people are realizing that with no merchants accepting PPC there's little hope for the widespread adoption that would drive the price up.

The main purpose of PPC right now is to field test the proof of stake concept as a viable solution to establish network security. And that's what the analysis should focus on right now. As such it's a hedge against POW implemented in bitcoin. I don't expect merchants to adopt it anytime soon.

I'm speculating that the lack of transparency in development causes developers to not bother writing the code that would allow merchants to accept PPC for actual commerce. And the lack of support from merchants causes investors to lose confidence in the currency as a long-term investment.

...so we're both right. Smiley
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January 15, 2013, 08:18:43 PM
 #8

Possibly people are realizing that with no merchants accepting PPC there's little hope for the widespread adoption that would drive the price up.

The main purpose of PPC right now is to field test the proof of stake concept as a viable solution to establish network security. And that's what the analysis should focus on right now. As such it's a hedge against POW implemented in bitcoin. I don't expect merchants to adopt it anytime soon.

I'm speculating that the lack of transparency in development causes developers to not bother writing the code that would allow merchants to accept PPC for actual commerce. And the lack of support from merchants causes investors to lose confidence in the currency as a long-term investment.

...so we're both right. Smiley
thats not a speculation, its a fact Tongue

[GPG Public Key]  [Devcoin Builds]  [BBQCoin Builds]  [Multichain Blockexplorer]  [Multichain Blockexplorer - PoS Coins]  [Ufasoft Miner Linux Builds]
BTC/DVC/TRC/FRC: 1K1773RbXRZVRQSSXe9N6N2MUFERvrdu6y ANC/XPM AK1773RTmRKtvbKBCrUu95UQg5iegrqyeA NMC: NK1773Rzv8b4ugmCgX789PbjewA9fL9Dy1 LTC: LKi773RBuPepQH8E6Zb1ponoCvgbU7hHmd EMC: EK1773RxUes1HX1YAGMZ1xVYBBRUCqfDoF BQC: bK1773R1APJz4yTgRkmdKQhjhiMyQpJgfN
Vitalicus
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January 16, 2013, 01:20:20 PM
 #9

I don't undestanded, who has created this panic ? (13-15 January)
The update will be in term like was annonced.
If we don't appreciate our young valute, nobody will do it.
What have you done for promote PPCoin ?
Jutarul
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January 16, 2013, 04:35:39 PM
 #10

I don't undestanded, who has created this panic ? (13-15 January)
The update will be in term like was annonced.
If we don't appreciate our young valute, nobody will do it.
What have you done for promote PPCoin ?

Why do you think a currency needs promotion?

As far as the "panic" is concerned - I don't really see a panic, just some big currency holders jumping off the boat. As I indicated in the OP, I think this has something to do with how the code development is handled (closed). But it could also be a reaction to the lack of utility, as wormbog indicated.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
Vitalicus
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January 16, 2013, 04:54:41 PM
 #11

Quote
...some big currency holders jumping off the boat
Stupid people Smiley They don't undestand that this project CAN'T DEAD. Ever mining will be 0 M/h, the coins will be generate by Proof of Stake.
I'm not agree with you about NOT NEED PROMOTIONS.
wormbog
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January 16, 2013, 05:42:20 PM
 #12

Sure, you can get more PPC through PoS generation. But if nobody will accept them for transactions they're nothing more than toy money. The same thing has already happened to numerous alt-chains: IxCoin, I0Coin, CoiledCoin, SolidCoin, BBQCoin, etc.

I used to think that it would be smart to hold a small amount of the various alt-currencies in case one of them happened to get popular and take off some day in the future. Clearly that has not happened for any of them yet. Over time, I've come to realize that it never will. Why? Because once a new currency has been out for a few months, a small handful of miners can collect huge stockpiles of the new coins with relatively little effort. They're worth almost nothing, but alt-coin fans hold on to them just in case.

Let's use PPCoin as an example. Let's say that 2 years from now, Bitcoin's requirement for miners has proven to be a huge problem. The blockchain is too big for anyone to work with directly, and all mining is done by multi-million dollar quantum computers that only large institutions can afford. The banks collude to do most transactions off-chain so chargebacks are possible and anonymity is gone. The crypto community becomes disenfranchised and start looking for an alternative that the banks can't take over so easily.

Meanwhile, PPC enthusiasts have been happily improving the protocol, and it's now widely seen as the perfect solution to take crypto-currency "back to the people". The early adopters who still have their wallets with a few hundred thousand PPC are drooling in anticipation. All the waiting is about to pay off!

BUT IT WON'T. Community leaders won't start pushing PPC. All those bulging wallets will be seen as little more than a massive pre-mine. Instead, they'll grab the source, use it to create a new coin with a name that won't make all the kindergarteners giggle, change the crypto so the banks' quantum computers can't take it over, and launch it fresh.

In conclusion: if an alt-currency doesn't get merchant buy-in within the first few months of launch, it is destined to fail. Bitcoin is the only exception, and only because it was the first of its kind. Bitcoin's early adopters may very well become super wealthy some day, but alt-coins are not a path to riches. They're great for research, but terrible for investment.
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January 16, 2013, 05:58:18 PM
 #13

Sure, you can get more PPC through PoS generation. But if nobody will accept them for transactions they're nothing more than toy money. The same thing has already happened to numerous alt-chains: IxCoin, I0Coin, CoiledCoin, SolidCoin, BBQCoin, etc.

I used to think that it would be smart to hold a small amount of the various alt-currencies in case one of them happened to get popular and take off some day in the future. Clearly that has not happened for any of them yet. Over time, I've come to realize that it never will. Why? Because once a new currency has been out for a few months, a small handful of miners can collect huge stockpiles of the new coins with relatively little effort. They're worth almost nothing, but alt-coin fans hold on to them just in case.

Let's use PPCoin as an example. Let's say that 2 years from now, Bitcoin's requirement for miners has proven to be a huge problem. The blockchain is too big for anyone to work with directly, and all mining is done by multi-million dollar quantum computers that only large institutions can afford. The banks collude to do most transactions off-chain so chargebacks are possible and anonymity is gone. The crypto community becomes disenfranchised and start looking for an alternative that the banks can't take over so easily.

Meanwhile, PPC enthusiasts have been happily improving the protocol, and it's now widely seen as the perfect solution to take crypto-currency "back to the people". The early adopters who still have their wallets with a few hundred thousand PPC are drooling in anticipation. All the waiting is about to pay off!

BUT IT WON'T. Community leaders won't start pushing PPC. All those bulging wallets will be seen as little more than a massive pre-mine. Instead, they'll grab the source, use it to create a new coin with a name that won't make all the kindergarteners giggle, change the crypto so the banks' quantum computers can't take it over, and launch it fresh.

In conclusion: if an alt-currency doesn't get merchant buy-in within the first few months of launch, it is destined to fail. Bitcoin is the only exception, and only because it was the first of its kind. Bitcoin's early adopters may very well become super wealthy some day, but alt-coins are not a path to riches. They're great for research, but terrible for investment.

my head says I agree with you entirely but my heart says shut up and I will be a millionaire when one of the altchains takes off, just a question of which one Tongue

also I would have to add that say there was an adoption of one of the alt coins by a large merchant... say ebay liked the idea of TRC over BTC as they saw an opportunity to make money from it by running their own SR equivalent on TOR then that would surely make the value of TRC worth it... however I do have to agree that it would make more sence for them to create their own coin and launch as Ecoins where they could have the initial advantage of mining at the start rather than joining months down the line once a huge number of coins are already in existance... and even if TRC did take off in such a way i'm sure we would see the bubbles and attempted busts of the currency.... especially if ebay were to take on a coin as i think there would be an outcry of users saying not to play into ebays hands etc...

also what happened to LTC being the silver of BTC's gold?? and that people will trade in LTC as BTC are just so precious and too valuable to trade on a day to day basis.. i know we are far from that at the moment, but do you think that LTC is in the same boat as a doomed to fail currency??

wormbog
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January 16, 2013, 06:16:47 PM
 #14


also what happened to LTC being the silver of BTC's gold?? and that people will trade in LTC as BTC are just so precious and too valuable to trade on a day to day basis.. i know we are far from that at the moment, but do you think that LTC is in the same boat as a doomed to fail currency??


Yes, LTC is also doomed to fail. Silver make sense because gold can't be broken down into small enough units for convenient everyday use. Bitcoin doesn't have that problem.
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January 16, 2013, 07:39:00 PM
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also what happened to LTC being the silver of BTC's gold?? and that people will trade in LTC as BTC are just so precious and too valuable to trade on a day to day basis.. i know we are far from that at the moment, but do you think that LTC is in the same boat as a doomed to fail currency??


Yes, LTC is also doomed to fail. Silver make sense because gold can't be broken down into small enough units for convenient everyday use. Bitcoin doesn't have that problem.

Yeah i feel ya.... though I am disappointed I can't send 1 Satoshi from my wallet without incuring a huge transaction fee Sad I don't know enough about the transactions fees but will this reduce over time??

wormbog
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January 16, 2013, 09:51:31 PM
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also what happened to LTC being the silver of BTC's gold?? and that people will trade in LTC as BTC are just so precious and too valuable to trade on a day to day basis.. i know we are far from that at the moment, but do you think that LTC is in the same boat as a doomed to fail currency??


Yes, LTC is also doomed to fail. Silver make sense because gold can't be broken down into small enough units for convenient everyday use. Bitcoin doesn't have that problem.

Yeah i feel ya.... though I am disappointed I can't send 1 Satoshi from my wallet without incuring a huge transaction fee Sad I don't know enough about the transactions fees but will this reduce over time??

Most miners won't include a transaction in their found blocks unless there's a transaction fee. While it's technically possible to sent a transaction without a fee, it could be a very long time before it would get any confirmation.

The standard bitcoin client has a hard-coded minimum fee of .0005 BTC. As I recall, the standard fee was originally .01 BTC, but it was reduced in the official client as exchange values started to rise, and the third-party clients followed suit. There's no reason it couldn't be dropped again in the future when bitcoins are worth a lot more.
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January 16, 2013, 09:52:42 PM
 #17

I don't undestanded, who has created this panic ? (13-15 January)
There are 15 million PPC in existence. Get 10% of them selling their coins and the market will drop low. Especially considering that there aren't many buyers. There were a lot of buyers at the beginning probably because people were speculating that PPC would become useful. As time goes on and there becomes no way of using them anywhere the number of buyers drop, more people start selling them since there's nothing you can do with them but sell them, and the price drops further. As others have noted this is the story of most other alt coins.
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January 16, 2013, 09:53:39 PM
 #18


also what happened to LTC being the silver of BTC's gold?? and that people will trade in LTC as BTC are just so precious and too valuable to trade on a day to day basis.. i know we are far from that at the moment, but do you think that LTC is in the same boat as a doomed to fail currency??


Yes, LTC is also doomed to fail. Silver make sense because gold can't be broken down into small enough units for convenient everyday use. Bitcoin doesn't have that problem.

Yeah i feel ya.... though I am disappointed I can't send 1 Satoshi from my wallet without incuring a huge transaction fee Sad I don't know enough about the transactions fees but will this reduce over time??

By the way, I just sent you a couple 1 satoshi transactions using blockchain.info and the official client (command line), and in both cases a .0005 transaction fee was included.
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January 16, 2013, 09:59:26 PM
 #19

Thank you wormbog, you have answered my question perfectly and left me with the feeling that I understand BTC even more now Smiley ... hehe and ty for the satoshi Cheesy i'll save those for 2114 when they worth millions!! Smiley i'd send u some coins back... but i know u prob not interested in any of the altcoins i got Tongue and i'm all out of BTC at the moment... still waiting on BFL to deliver some product :/ but rest asured I never forget those who expand my knowledge and mind Cheesy ... oh and if you would like some altcoins do say Smiley

Vitalicus
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January 16, 2013, 10:08:07 PM
 #20

15 millions - is 0.75% from total 2 billions.
PPC is long term project. When the bitcoin base will be more 20 gb, the PPC sure will become valued.
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