I'd like to ask for some help.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Matthew,

If you ACTUALLY want to make things right, then you should declare personal bankruptcy and let the court divide whatever assets you have among your creditors.

I have no intention of walking out on my obligations and have already contacted all parties from the bet. I'm just waiting on responses from some of them before I can do much else.

I doubt that any legal system would regard Matthew's bet as provable

This is correct. I am a permanent resident of South Korea and no contract is lawful here without A) paper contract with at least a duplicate in Korean language (English alone is thrown out in court), B) fingerprints on said contract (new law passed recently). That said, the laws regarding internet activity are reminiscent of Singapore's laws that apply to Paypal; they can do whatever they want without so much as a fine, so long as none of their customers are from Singapore.

Hope you'll prove me wrong, though.

If I happen to prove you wrong, I guess that's a plus, but I'm not on a crusade to prove anything to anyone. I'm just here to make amends to the individuals I broke my promise with and that process began days ago.

[1714016182]

1714016182

[1714016182]

1714016182

[1714016182]

1714016182

[molecular]

Welcome back, Matthew.

You fucked up big time and you seem to regret it. That's a good thing.

You even want to make good on your "obligations". However, I'm not sure what these are:

I never took your bet seriously myself (otherwise I would've bet at some point when I was sure pirate would run and your bet miraculously was still open). First I was of the impression you really thought pirate would pay, but I was also pretty sure you wouldn't have 10 kBTC, let alone 80 kBTC.

I'm guessing most of the people who "took" your bet had similar thoughts (that the bet was a joke and/or you had gone berserker insane and wouldn't pay either way). Whoever seriously counted on you paying up and thought they had thereby effectively "hedged" their pirate loss was dilusional.

We can put the people that took your bet into 2 categories:

• d) delusional: those who took you seriously and thought they could get out of their pirate fuckup this way
• c) clowns or profiteer: those who took your bet for fun and never planned to pay in case they lost

group c) you really owe nothing and I'm not sure about group d): they had made the initial mistake of investing in pirate and had only themselves to blame for that. This was becoming clearer to them every day. Then you seemingly came to the rescue (like a fata morgana of water in the desert) and they thought themselves saved. Now they blame the fata morgana for disappearing? I'm not sure this works. (I know this analogy is wrong.. a hyperbole)

As for the damage you inflicted: your bet might've enabled pirate to keep things going a little longer (I don't know) and some more money was sent his way than would've been otherwise. It's hard to do this, but if I had to put a number, I would say your "obligations" are around 1% of the total bet amount.

As for "distributing" possible compensation: I think you can only do it evenly by bet amount since you don't know who belongs to which group and assessing the harm you did individually is highly error-prone and will likely wear you out.

I'm just thinking out loud here and might change my mind upon discussion, but that's the way I see things currently.

Any ideas how high Matthews obligations really are?

[Matthew N. Wright]

As for "distributing" possible compensation: I think you can only do it evenly by bet amount since you don't know who belongs to which group and assessing the harm you did individually is highly error-prone and will likely wear you out.

Thank you for the kind words and concern, I have already contacted each better and I'm in the process of settling. It will take a little bit of time but I am dedicated to this first and foremost until the matter is resolved. Since many of the people betting were trolls trying to scam me I cannot make a group settlement because not all of the group will participate (sock puppet accounts do not respond). I can only discuss a solution with people who actually respond.

[molecular]

As for "distributing" possible compensation: I think you can only do it evenly by bet amount since you don't know who belongs to which group and assessing the harm you did individually is highly error-prone and will likely wear you out.

Thank you for the kind words and concern, I have already contacted each better and I'm in the process of settling. It will take a little bit of time but I am dedicated to this first and foremost until the matter is resolved. Since many of the people betting were trolls trying to scam me I cannot make a group settlement because not all of the group will participate (sock puppet accounts do not respond). I can only discuss a solution with people who actually respond.

I wish you best of luck to get this through quickly so you can move on. I also hope everyone ends up with a little less grief and a lighter heart.

[BR0KK]

BR0KK: Imagine for a moment that you and another guy is playing texas holdem heads up tournament. You both have agreed to put $10 000 in the pot meaning the winner will receive $20 000 and loser $0. You win the game, then the other party says "haha I was just joking man! don't take it so seriously."... would you at this point still hold the opinion that since you didn't lose anything you did not get scammed?

Well, this is exactly what has happended here. The poker player who ripped everyone off is back and is trying to settle things. We'll see how that goes.

That's something i'll never do

Lets assume i do this:

Real game:
1. Money on the table then we play!
2. No Money; no game!
3. Look at the guy offering the bet .... you'll see if he's capable of 20K bets!
4. Get some witness to ensure the bet (Someone you trust)
5. Maybe write something down with each party agreeing to pay up?
6. and so forth....


Stupid internet bet with troll kids:
0. Think first!
1. Don't take em serious!
2. Dont cry about a loss that you didn't have!

So do I understand this right, if I am considered a "troll kid" (despite my identity and location being wildely known) I can promise people whatever I want on the internet and make any kind of bets and still not be a scammer when I default on all my promises?

Nice, remind me to never do any business with you.

Nope .... where did i write that? Highlight that please.... You made a silly example of a poker game and i debunked it... How on earth would one play like this?

My advise: Just don't bet with them, and don't start crying if you lost nothing:)

Let me quote what you wrote previously today in this topic:

So the only thing he did wrong, was running a silly bet?

HOW STUPID TO TAKE THIS BET SERIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE.... Did someone get hurt (besides mentally?); Did someone loose Money or BTC?
No?

If thats the only thing he did.... then remove the tag because he's not a scammer....

Whats you definition of a scamer?

 

[makomk]

Personally, I side with those who believe you're a sociopath, and I have my doubts whether you truly want to take responsibility, rather than just having people think you're a good guy again by making some weepy apologetic posts. Hope you'll prove me wrong, though.

Yeah. I was actually kind of disappointed when KeyserSoze deleted his original accusation against Matthew the first time he was tagged as a scammer, back when he was still going by the name BitMole. (He actually wanted the entire thread there deleted.)

[Rassah]

So, for those people who do get your money from Matthew, will that payout actually make you think he's trustworthy? I guess I'm wondering if there are people who would actually think that someone who stiffed them on a bet, coming back in the way Matthew is, and paying some of the money they owed, should be completely forgiven and thought of as trustworthy. Personally, no amount of money will change how I feel about Matthew or how much I trust or don't trust him. So, really, I'm wondering what it is that Matthew thinks he is buying with all this.

[Matthew N. Wright]

So, for those people who do get your money from Matthew, will that payout actually make you think he's trustworthy? I guess I'm wondering if there are people who would actually think that someone who stiffed them on a bet, coming back in the way Matthew is, and paying some of the money they owed, should be completely forgiven and thought of as trustworthy. Personally, no amount of money will change how I feel about Matthew or how much I trust or don't trust him. So, really, I'm wondering what it is that Matthew thinks he is buying with all this.

Honestly, I'm just trying to make things right by my own standards. I cannot possibly tell you what other people's standards might be. One person might think by their religious law that I should be hung for embarrassing them. Another person might think simply telling me not to do it again would be sufficient. I'm not doing this for other people, I'm doing it for myself. I have always thought that when I was on my death bed, I'd be happy because I literally have done everything I've always wanted. Recently I realized that that isn't true unless I make amends for this. I don't expect people to suddenly like me after 13 months of trolling because I handed them some bitcoins, or moreso, the people who aren't even involved in that bet who are just reading this thread and eating popcorn. I'm not interested in a popularity contest anymore. I just want to make things right and know that I did what was right. I get trolled a lot but it only bothers me when it's the truth.

[Brunic]

Matthew, it's never too late to make things right until you're dead.

First and most important, you're never going to be able to repair the damage you have done and make the situation exactly as before. Take your time to accept this and keep that as a lesson.

Second, you're already doing it, but asking the people you've hurt what you can humanly do in your current situation to patch things up is a great start. As for the rest, well, you've destroyed value in this community. If you can find a way to bring new value in this community, you're welcome to do so.

Consider that some people have black-listed you, let them be. Some people in this world believe in death penalty, so for them, rehabilitation doesn't even exist in their mind. You can't do anything about that, learn to deal with it. Others (like me), believe in controlled rehabilitation. Keep that scammer tag and the info about your bet available. Hiding that information is not going to help you. As long as you're doing that and you're transparent, some (not all) people will still give you a chance.

You have a big hill of credibility to climb back, but I think you can do it. jcpham posted about the "steamship wanting to buy your bet debt couple of pages ago" and I was also there that night. You had the easy way out to ran away from this mess, but you went forward with your balls of steels. You also have the guts of coming back here and asking for help. Asking for help is pretty hard when the ego is in the way. I respect that, and I'm pretty sure you'll go through it.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

First, welcome back, friend. Sorry for not supplying input earlier, but I wasn't sure of what to write--until now.

At the risk of being alienated, I'm for having your scarlet X's removed, offering up the following as my argument.

The argument I have received numerous times is that since people trusted the bet, they were inclined to make other financial decisions based on said trust.

If the above is true, for I believe that's why the tag was implemented in the first place, then how is that different than promising shipment on a certain date, but was pushed back a couple three times? Before I continue, please understand that this is no way a diss toward BFL, let alone suggesting they, too, deserve a scammer tag, which is nonsense. But the crux of the matter is that many a people pre-ordered product with the understanding that revenue will be generated by a certain date or, at the very least, a modest rescheduled one. If my calculations are correct, not one satoshi of the over a million dollars worth of bitcoins that were expected to be mined to date has yet to be produced.

That said, the above quote could be written the following way.

The argument I have received numerous times is that since people trusted we would ship in October, they were inclined to make other financial decisions based on said shipping date.

Bottom line, what's good for Team Monach is more than good enough for an ex-troll.

Q.E.D.

I'm not too into adding stipulations, but if I were inclined to do such, I would only suggest that trolling be kept to a bare minimum, and do everything in your power to add to the Bitcoin community utilizing the tremendous skills you possess, with somehow gleaning something to provide for your family.

The only other suggestion I have is that the tag will remain until the first anniversary of when it was implemented, during which time Matthew will be adding to the Bitcoin community then, upon seeing that such actions transpired, admin, namely theymos, would remove said tag.

Please accept my apologies to those who have a distaste for Matthew, as well as those who expect to be paid because of the bit. I have no qualms with yous, and hopefully this post doesn't change the way you feel about me unless, of course, I'm on your ignore list and you now have a desire to reverse that decision.  

~Bruno K~

[CIYAM]

Sent both yourself and Bruno a PM - hopefully 2013 will be a fresh new start!

[TheKoziTwo]

BR0KK: Imagine for a moment that you and another guy is playing texas holdem heads up tournament. You both have agreed to put $10 000 in the pot meaning the winner will receive $20 000 and loser $0. You win the game, then the other party says "haha I was just joking man! don't take it so seriously."... would you at this point still hold the opinion that since you didn't lose anything you did not get scammed?

Well, this is exactly what has happended here. The poker player who ripped everyone off is back and is trying to settle things. We'll see how that goes.

That's something i'll never do

Lets assume i do this:

Real game:
1. Money on the table then we play!
2. No Money; no game!
3. Look at the guy offering the bet .... you'll see if he's capable of 20K bets!
4. Get some witness to ensure the bet (Someone you trust)
5. Maybe write something down with each party agreeing to pay up?
6. and so forth....


Stupid internet bet with troll kids:
0. Think first!
1. Don't take em serious!
2. Dont cry about a loss that you didn't have!

So do I understand this right, if I am considered a "troll kid" (despite my identity and location being wildely known) I can promise people whatever I want on the internet and make any kind of bets and still not be a scammer when I default on all my promises?

Nice, remind me to never do any business with you.

Nope .... where did i write that? Highlight that please.... You made a silly example of a poker game and i debunked it... How on earth would one play like this?

My advise: Just don't bet with them, and don't start crying if you lost nothing:)

Let me quote what you wrote previously today in this topic:

So the only thing he did wrong, was running a silly bet?

HOW STUPID TO TAKE THIS BET SERIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE.... Did someone get hurt (besides mentally?); Did someone loose Money or BTC?
No?

If thats the only thing he did.... then remove the tag because he's not a scammer....

Whats you definition of a scamer?

 

A scammer is someone who uses deception/trickery/fraud in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BR0KK: Imagine for a moment that you and another guy is playing texas holdem heads up tournament. You both have agreed to put $10 000 in the pot meaning the winner will receive $20 000 and loser $0. You win the game, then the other party says "haha I was just joking man! don't take it so seriously."... would you at this point still hold the opinion that since you didn't lose anything you did not get scammed?

Well, this is exactly what has happended here. The poker player who ripped everyone off is back and is trying to settle things. We'll see how that goes.

That's something i'll never do

Lets assume i do this:

Real game:
1. Money on the table then we play!
2. No Money; no game!
3. Look at the guy offering the bet .... you'll see if he's capable of 20K bets!
4. Get some witness to ensure the bet (Someone you trust)
5. Maybe write something down with each party agreeing to pay up?
6. and so forth....


Stupid internet bet with troll kids:
0. Think first!
1. Don't take em serious!
2. Dont cry about a loss that you didn't have!

So do I understand this right, if I am considered a "troll kid" (despite my identity and location being wildely known) I can promise people whatever I want on the internet and make any kind of bets and still not be a scammer when I default on all my promises?

Nice, remind me to never do any business with you.

Nope .... where did i write that? Highlight that please.... You made a silly example of a poker game and i debunked it... How on earth would one play like this?

My advise: Just don't bet with them, and don't start crying if you lost nothing:)

Let me quote what you wrote previously today in this topic:

So the only thing he did wrong, was running a silly bet?

HOW STUPID TO TAKE THIS BET SERIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE.... Did someone get hurt (besides mentally?); Did someone loose Money or BTC?
No?

If thats the only thing he did.... then remove the tag because he's not a scammer....

Whats you definition of a scamer?

A scammer is someone who uses deception/trickery/fraud in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

That surely narrowed it down. Have you ever seen the following house in Plano, Illinois, just down the road from where I live?

[bg002h]

Matthew,

You made a silly bet out of ignorance and a horrible understanding of mathematics. Greater stupidity made you extend the bet beyond your means of payment. Even more stupidity made others take financial risks they could ill afford on the good faith and credit of some guy they don't know who sucks at math.

A sincere apology is a appropriate...but, there are plenty of people who took part in making your silly unbelievable bet go way overboard. Heck, half of us on here were part of the pirate scam...taking money from hopeful "investors" under the false pretenses of thinking this pirate guy found a way to make Ponzi level returns without running a ponzi. Even Theymos proudly took pirate money.

I'm not saying what you did was right. It wasn't. But don't forget many people didn't _want_ to believe they were scammed by a guy named pirate (that sounds so silly!) and others didn't _want_ your bet to be fake...At some point the grown ups need to step in and tell the children to grow up.

I wouldn't try too hard to make amends. I mean, heck, you could have outright stolen coins and faced no consequence (not that that would make it right).

Did Trendon ever go to prison? Get arrested? Get more than some phone calls? Someone please tell me the identified thief was prosecuted!

For the record, I vote to keep the scammer tag. Only because Matthew was bad enough at math to believe that he might actually have stood to gain and he had no intention of losing...it was a statistical scam.

[BR0KK]

BR0KK: Imagine for a moment that you and another guy is playing texas holdem heads up tournament. You both have agreed to put $10 000 in the pot meaning the winner will receive $20 000 and loser $0. You win the game, then the other party says "haha I was just joking man! don't take it so seriously."... would you at this point still hold the opinion that since you didn't lose anything you did not get scammed?

Well, this is exactly what has happended here. The poker player who ripped everyone off is back and is trying to settle things. We'll see how that goes.

That's something i'll never do

Lets assume i do this:

Real game:
1. Money on the table then we play!
2. No Money; no game!
3. Look at the guy offering the bet .... you'll see if he's capable of 20K bets!
4. Get some witness to ensure the bet (Someone you trust)
5. Maybe write something down with each party agreeing to pay up?
6. and so forth....


Stupid internet bet with troll kids:
0. Think first!
1. Don't take em serious!
2. Dont cry about a loss that you didn't have!

So do I understand this right, if I am considered a "troll kid" (despite my identity and location being wildely known) I can promise people whatever I want on the internet and make any kind of bets and still not be a scammer when I default on all my promises?

Nice, remind me to never do any business with you.

Nope .... where did i write that? Highlight that please.... You made a silly example of a poker game and i debunked it... How on earth would one play like this?

My advise: Just don't bet with them, and don't start crying if you lost nothing:)

Let me quote what you wrote previously today in this topic:

So the only thing he did wrong, was running a silly bet?

HOW STUPID TO TAKE THIS BET SERIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE.... Did someone get hurt (besides mentally?); Did someone loose Money or BTC?
No?

If thats the only thing he did.... then remove the tag because he's not a scammer....

Whats you definition of a scamer?

 

A scammer is someone who uses deception/trickery/fraud in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Did he gain something out of his bet.... I mean did he take money from bet partners?
As I recall he didn't (or am I wrong here?)

If he didn't then he's just a liar.

Heck, even BLF doesn't have a tag .... May I ask the board leaders why?
They did everything what qualifies them, but they keep on dooing their Bullshit....

[TheKoziTwo]

BR0KK: Imagine for a moment that you and another guy is playing texas holdem heads up tournament. You both have agreed to put $10 000 in the pot meaning the winner will receive $20 000 and loser $0. You win the game, then the other party says "haha I was just joking man! don't take it so seriously."... would you at this point still hold the opinion that since you didn't lose anything you did not get scammed?

Well, this is exactly what has happended here. The poker player who ripped everyone off is back and is trying to settle things. We'll see how that goes.

That's something i'll never do

Lets assume i do this:

Real game:
1. Money on the table then we play!
2. No Money; no game!
3. Look at the guy offering the bet .... you'll see if he's capable of 20K bets!
4. Get some witness to ensure the bet (Someone you trust)
5. Maybe write something down with each party agreeing to pay up?
6. and so forth....


Stupid internet bet with troll kids:
0. Think first!
1. Don't take em serious!
2. Dont cry about a loss that you didn't have!

So do I understand this right, if I am considered a "troll kid" (despite my identity and location being wildely known) I can promise people whatever I want on the internet and make any kind of bets and still not be a scammer when I default on all my promises?

Nice, remind me to never do any business with you.

Nope .... where did i write that? Highlight that please.... You made a silly example of a poker game and i debunked it... How on earth would one play like this?

My advise: Just don't bet with them, and don't start crying if you lost nothing:)

Let me quote what you wrote previously today in this topic:

So the only thing he did wrong, was running a silly bet?

HOW STUPID TO TAKE THIS BET SERIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE.... Did someone get hurt (besides mentally?); Did someone loose Money or BTC?
No?

If thats the only thing he did.... then remove the tag because he's not a scammer....

Whats you definition of a scamer?

 

A scammer is someone who uses deception/trickery/fraud in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Did he gain something out of his bet.... I mean did he take money from bet partners?
As I recall he didn't (or am I wrong here?)

If he didn't then he's just a liar.

It's called a failed scam. Just because a scammer doesn't succeed doesn't make him less of a scammer.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Someone had already put it quite eloquently; it is the equivalent to having broken someone's windows. I did not benefit from it, but neither did the person whose windows I may have broken. Just added to the chaos and now I am paying for the broken windows and trying to put them in myself. Some people are telling me that they already replaced them and they'd rather have me rake the leaves in their yard. Some people are telling me that they want the full price of the window. Still others are telling me that the house they were living in was in a fire and doesn't need the windows replaced any more. I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.

[John (John K.)]

Someone had already put it quite eloquently; it is the equivalent to having broken someone's windows. I did not benefit from it, but neither did the person whose windows I may have broken. Just added to the chaos and now I am paying for the broken windows and trying to put them in myself. Some people are telling me that they already replaced them and they'd rather have me rake the leaves in their yard. Some people are telling me that they want the full price of the window. Still others are telling me that the house they were living in was in a fire and doesn't need the windows replaced any more. I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.

You need a 'Rehab' title here. 

[TheKoziTwo]

I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.

I didn't get paid back.

[MrTeal]

Well, since no one else seems to have posted up an address, I'll see how this goes.

1FQhNej4boCkMfDFZykBDf9YbiKWK4aVfK

My bet was 100BTC in the first day of the bet, later upped to 500BTC after you extended past the 10,000 limit.

I would settle for 1% of the total bet, or BTC5 to the address above. If that works, go ahead and I'll consider this all resolved.