Why Socialism is the key

[btcbug]

It's not a fucking free market, damnit socialists are very illiterate, almost every socialist I argued with cant comprehend the difference between a free market and a government regulated economy.

When you have 10,000 pages of regulation its not a free market, got it?

Haha, have fun!


Most people, such as the Socialists in this thread, view the political spectrum as something like this first image.






When the world around you is viewed through that lense, you often hold conflicting ideas and your moral compass is inconsistent. This is why on one hand, people can agree that theft is morally wrong between two individuals. Yet they also believe that if a group of people get together and vote to steal from others, it is morally good. This is a huge double standard that can't be reconciled when you view reality through this spectrum.

They are stuck in a false paradigm.







In reality, it's actually freedom vs slavery. Freedom being that each individual has the right to his own body, the fruits of his labor, and property. Nobody has the right to initiate violence or use aggression against him. Unfortunately all forms of government must inherently violate these principles of freedom.

I understand the need for helping people, but if I ask you to donate to charity and you refuse, it is none of my business to question your reasons. Now if there were 5 of us in a group and 3 of us voted to force you to donate, would that be morally ok? This is the whole basis for Democracy / Socialism. It is nothing more than a tyranny of the majority.

Two Wolves and a Sheep deciding what's for dinner!

The ideas of Socialism (health care, schools, etc.) are attractive because they're like a form of insurance. Everybody pays into a pot and then they can go to the doctor whenever they have issues. Some people who are very healthy will use the doctor very little, while others may be unlucky and need to see a doctor often. I actually think insurance is a great idea, and so do most people.

Socialists want to make this insurance mandatory for everybody under jurisdiction of a certain government. When something is mandatory and I happen to live in that area, it means that I cannot opt out of the system, in other words I am FORCED to partake. All I want is to be LEFT THE FUCK ALONE! Socialists don't believe I have that right.

In a free market, we have insurance we just don't FORCE you to pay for it. It's optional. You may or may not think it's necessary and that is 100% your own free choice. Private insurance could handle ALL of the things that government currently does and do a much better job because they'd be competing for your business.

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

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[BARR_Official]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

[Fatman3001]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

[BARR_Official]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

-us and -ous aren't interchangeable just because people use them incorrectly. 

The ability to use words properly is an important part of knowing what you're talking about.

[Fatman3001]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

-us and -ous aren't interchangeable just because people use them incorrectly. 

The ability to use words properly is an important part of knowing what you're talking about.

Yes and no.

There's a difference between a spelling error in a second language and misusing language to give a false impression that a fairly extreme position somehow has broad support.

[Laosai]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

-us and -ous aren't interchangeable just because people use them incorrectly. 

The ability to use words properly is an important part of knowing what you're talking about.

Yes and no.

There's a difference between a spelling error in a second language and misusing language to give a false impression that a fairly extreme position somehow has broad support.

What? English is not your first language? It means you're not a civilised American? I bet you're one of those socialists monsters of Europe!

[Laosai]

-nonsense-

Ok so you're actually saying that without any kind of government it would be absolute freedom?

So what will prevent big rich guys to oppress you? They got the money so they'll just use their power to put you down.

What you're saying is dumb as hell simply because it implie that humans are good by nature, and that if they're given the choice they'll always do the right thing. Experience shows it is not the case.

[Fatman3001]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

-us and -ous aren't interchangeable just because people use them incorrectly. 

The ability to use words properly is an important part of knowing what you're talking about.

Yes and no.

There's a difference between a spelling error in a second language and misusing language to give a false impression that a fairly extreme position somehow has broad support.

What? English is not your first language? It means you're not a civilised American? I bet you're one of those socialists monsters of Europe!

I've heard we eat babies.

[BARR_Official]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

-us and -ous aren't interchangeable just because people use them incorrectly. 

The ability to use words properly is an important part of knowing what you're talking about.

Yes and no.

There's a difference between a spelling error in a second language and misusing language to give a false impression that a fairly extreme position somehow has broad support.

So you're using the excuse that you don't know English well enough to spell words correctly,
but you just got done representing yourself as an expert who knows all popular English sayings.

You didn't say, "I've never heard that saying, but then English is my second language."
You said, "It's not a saying."

In your language, how do you say "full of shit"?

[Laosai]

I've heard we eat babies.

Oh no! Even worse!

We give them FREE EDUCATION!!! YOU IMAGINE?
And then we make everyone pay for it! So that no matter who, black white, rich or poor, all children can afford to go to the school he wants if he works hard enough. Brrr... Just by imagining it... You seriously imagine that? A country where all children can make their studies without taking out 200k$ loans. Horrible.

[Laosai]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

-us and -ous aren't interchangeable just because people use them incorrectly. 

The ability to use words properly is an important part of knowing what you're talking about.

Yes and no.

There's a difference between a spelling error in a second language and misusing language to give a false impression that a fairly extreme position somehow has broad support.

So you're using the excuse that you don't know English well enough to spell words correctly,
but you just got done representing yourself as an expert who knows all popular English sayings.

You didn't say, "I've never heard that saying, but then English is my second language."
You said, "It's not a saying."

In your language, how do you say "full of shit"?

I don't know for fatman but in my language it's rather popular to say BARR_Official 

[BARR_Official]

I've just owned him more thoroughly than socialist government employees own the results of production.

He will probably never post on the internet again.

[Laosai]

I've just owned him more thoroughly than socialist government employees own the results of production.

He will probably never post on the internet again.

I don't know:
1/ what you mean, makes no sense to me
2/ who you're talking to

Unless you're talking to fatman. Cause you know he just came here cause he was bored for 2 min. He won't take time toanswer you. I shouldn't even waste time for you in fact. But I can't let you say the same shit again and again.

[BARR_Official]

But I can't let you say the same shit again and again.

lol, are you daydreaming that your socialist fantasy has come true, and you are in charge of what everyone is allowed to say?

[doublemore]

Which is why it's important to maintain a direct democracy, avoiding a small elite to take control of socialist principle and thus restauring the "good old communism" as you say

Yes but democracy is nothing more than a shield for  free market economy,
which destroying whole world with greed for power and resources.
This is why we must implement some principles from socialism to democracy.
Family, workers, kids, must be protected from greed of bankers and multinational corporations.
Only mixing few elements from democracy and socialism we can find nearly perfect system for today people needs.

If you ask me i'm ready for Venus project,  and resources based economy.

Hmm... I understand your love for the Venus project but the problem with it is we still don't have a technology that can produce sustainable energy. So you just can't do it.

I'd probably support TZM guys over the venus project, but still it does seem like something that sounds nice right now but we cant get everyone to agree to work towards the same cause.   Maybe we need a war with aliens or something to unite us.

[Laosai]

But I can't let you say the same shit again and again.

lol, are you daydreaming that your socialist fantasy has come true, and you are in charge of what everyone is allowed to say?

Pff... Cause socialism = dictatorship and end of freedom of speech of course...

I meant I can't let you say the same shit again and again without countering you that's all.

[BARR_Official]

But I can't let you say the same shit again and again.

lol, are you daydreaming that your socialist fantasy has come true, and you are in charge of what everyone is allowed to say?

Pff... Cause socialism = dictatorship and end of freedom of speech of course...

I meant I can't let you say the same shit again and again without countering you that's all.

If you're going to start countering me, I'll wait until you come up with something.

[btcbug]

Ok so you're actually saying that without any kind of government it would be absolute freedom?

Now now, don't get all scared and start implying chaos. I am not saying freedom in the sense that anything goes. I did explain previously that initiating force against others was morally wrong. You are choosing to ignore half of what I said and start ranting about oppression. That being said, freedom is scary thing to most people. It means admitting that you are 100% accountable for your own life!

So what will prevent big rich guys to oppress you? They got the money so they'll just use their power to put you down.

Very simple, competitive markets limit power. Giant corporations don't just appear out of nowhere. I understand it's hard to strip away the layers of complexity, when we were all born into the present situation. Businesses grow because they are providing a valuable service to their customers, who (in a free market) CHOOSE to do business with them. Does Apple hold a gun to your head when you buy an iPhone? Nope. On the other hand I will have a gun held to my head if I choose to not do business with the local or federal governments when they provide me service that I don't ask for.

Taxation = Coercion
Buying a product from a business out of your own free will = Freedom.

What you're saying is dumb as hell simply because it implie that humans are good by nature, and that if they're given the choice they'll always do the right thing. Experience shows it is not the case.

It doesn't imply anything of the sort. I recognize that some people are bad and hence why I'd prefer that we didn't grant them a vehicle (government and coercive taxation), in which to take over and use for to further their sociopathic agendas.

The belief in government is the same as belief in Gods. They are both comforting, in that people can shrug off responsibility for their lives, but they are both fundamentally destructive. If people stopped believing in this thing called "authority" then nobody (corporations, or warlords) would be able to rule. Why do you think it is that Bill Gates does not have the ability to tax people? Because nobody BELIEVES that he has the authority! It's that simple.

[cjmoles]

So, we've pointed out several problems with the ways we govern our societies within the framework of our current financial systems.  I am truly on the isle with much of what has been discussed here.  However, what I am pondering now is: How do technologies, such as bitcoin, change the financial landscape within the framework of our geo-socio-economic structure.  Could bitcoin change how we govern?  Seriously?

What problems within our several systems could these new technologies reconcile?

[Fatman3001]

There is a saying: "Government. Ideas so good, we have to force you to pay for them!"

+1

It's not a saying just because right wing nutters keep repeating it. A saying has its origin from the broader populous.

-us and -ous aren't interchangeable just because people use them incorrectly. 

The ability to use words properly is an important part of knowing what you're talking about.

Yes and no.

There's a difference between a spelling error in a second language and misusing language to give a false impression that a fairly extreme position somehow has broad support.

So you're using the excuse that you don't know English well enough to spell words correctly,
but you just got done representing yourself as an expert who knows all popular English sayings.

You didn't say, "I've never heard that saying, but then English is my second language."
You said, "It's not a saying."

In your language, how do you say "full of shit"?

I could have said I was thinking of the game Populous, but that might have been too esoteric.

Anyhew, are you saying I am wrong?