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Author Topic: Bitcoin is the most dangerous item to short.  (Read 4323 times)
XxionxX
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January 21, 2013, 07:59:07 AM
 #21

If you are holding any other assets and not in bitcoins you are by definition short bitcoins.

No you are not.  Shorting is being lent an asset and selling it (to buy it at lower price later and give back to lender).

Thnx for the lesson in trading terminology ...

... short is also used to mean "not long".


when you say short bitcoin when you are not holding it, you were use bitcoin as benchmark, in that way, yes, you are shorting bitcoins by not long.
Your underlying assumption is natural position is holding all your assets in bitcoin.


... and we have a winner.

The guy who is obsessed with mucus and nasal emissions must have pulled out some brains at some point I think.

Measuring your worth in bitcoins should be the new norm for anybody who is serious about this little experiment .... all others are short by definition ... there are no 'neutral' positions, that is a fallacy peddled by fiat-meisters, all assets are in play. All wealth assets are measured with respect to something else, when you can realise that you have begun your journey to wealth and understanding money.

Being "in" dollars is the same thing to being long dollars and being in bitcoin is the same thing as being short dollars, there is no difference (some quibble about leverage but leverage of 1 is still short). If you sell any asset you are a natural short since if you were to ever buy that asset back again you would either gain or lose on the round-trip, so all trades include a long and a short component, it is inescapable.

You just blew my mind. I learned more in those 2 paragraphs than I have in the past week of my life. I need to go read some more trading websites.

FAP Turbo 2.0, the FOREX trading robot which also trades bitcoin!

I had to link it because I love the name. Seriously, that is the real name.
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ElectricMucus
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January 21, 2013, 08:08:36 AM
 #22

If you are holding any other assets and not in bitcoins you are by definition short bitcoins.

No you are not.  Shorting is being lent an asset and selling it (to buy it at lower price later and give back to lender).

Thnx for the lesson in trading terminology ...

... short is also used to mean "not long".


when you say short bitcoin when you are not holding it, you were use bitcoin as benchmark, in that way, yes, you are shorting bitcoins by not long.
Your underlying assumption is natural position is holding all your assets in bitcoin.


... and we have a winner.

The guy who is obsessed with mucus and nasal emissions must have pulled out some brains at some point I think.

You got me  Embarrassed
(Actually it's the color of the planetexpress spaceship, but nevermind)

The rest of your post is for what it's worth a compelling piece of work, but when it comes down to it propaganda and has nothing to do with the correct term for shorting.
You can only be short by selling, saying that you are "short" bitcoin with money you didn't get by selling bitcoin is ridiculous.
That's like saying I am also short strawberries because I haven't invested all my money in strawberries.


Even further being short is commonly refereed to selling a borrowed asset, nobody uses the term for something else, look around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_%28finance%29
Quote
The potential loss on a short sale is theoretically unlimited in the event of an unlimited rise in the price of the instrument, however in practice the short seller will be required to post margin or collateral to cover losses, and any inability to do so on a timely basis would cause its broker or counterparty to liquidate the position.

That's only possible with a borrowed asset.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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January 21, 2013, 10:17:49 AM
 #23

I sold bitcoins yesterday on 12€, placed an order to buy at 10.7

There's my bet.

ouch  Cheesy

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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January 21, 2013, 10:32:55 AM
 #24

Well not really.  That would be neutral or no position.  Short is when you owe bitcoins that you do not actually own, with options or protection.  (I am not saying that options or protection currently exist)
short != leveraged

all short means is selling with intention to buy back lower (cover)

shorting with leverage is what your talking about

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_%28finance%29

Adam, check your own link.  Shortselling indeed means selling to cover at lower price, but from the starting point of a neutral position (owning nothing of the asset).
Just check the schematic, there isn't a "Lender" and "Share borrowing" part there for nothing.
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January 21, 2013, 11:29:00 AM
 #25

If you are holding any other assets and not in bitcoins you are by definition short bitcoins.

No you are not.  Shorting is being lent an asset and selling it (to buy it at lower price later and give back to lender).

Thnx for the lesson in trading terminology ...

... short is also used to mean "not long".


when you say short bitcoin when you are not holding it, you were use bitcoin as benchmark, in that way, yes, you are shorting bitcoins by not long.
Your underlying assumption is natural position is holding all your assets in bitcoin.


... and we have a winner.

The guy who is obsessed with mucus and nasal emissions must have pulled out some brains at some point I think.

Measuring your worth in bitcoins should be the new norm for anybody who is serious about this little experiment .... all others are short by definition ... there are no 'neutral' positions, that is a fallacy peddled by fiat-meisters, all assets are in play. All wealth assets are measured with respect to something else, when you can realise that you have begun your journey to wealth and understanding money.

Being "in" dollars is the same thing to being long dollars and being in bitcoin is the same thing as being short dollars, there is no difference (some quibble about leverage but leverage of 1 is still short). If you sell any asset you are a natural short since if you were to ever buy that asset back again you would either gain or lose on the round-trip, so all trades include a long and a short component, it is inescapable.

^ this makes perfect sense.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
ElectricMucus
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January 21, 2013, 12:07:05 PM
 #26

The amount of circle jerking ITT is gargantuan.  Cheesy

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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January 26, 2013, 08:57:34 PM
 #27

I must disagree with this topic! I like to think of shorting as a sort of "checks and balances" system for keeping the overwhelming exuberance in check



This position was eventually closed at $15.88 on the second dip with a handsome profit (No way was I going to pull a meelba Roll Eyes ) My only regret? Not shorting more.

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