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[TooDumbForBitcoin]

but devs have no power at all, if a group of devs don't produce the software that users and miners want to use, some other group of devs will...

This is a fantasy, unsupported by six years of history.

History gives us btcd, well developed, but completely ignored and irrelevant.

History gives us Mike Hearn, who is damaged, alone, and bitter.

History gives us Gavin Andreson, unsure of his own identity, not committed to Bitcoin, comfortable in his sofa of virtual coin.

History gives us XT, Classic, and Unlimited, "let's put on a show" high school science fair projects put together by Cypherdoc, Peter R, the Toomim brothers, and other pretenders/scammers.

That leaves the Core devs.  Cryptographers, C++ experience, professionals.  Not perfect, but responsible for everything that BTC lovers hold dear.

The idea that you can stop a car on the street and turn the occupants into developers of the next great cryptocurrency is an exercise in

denial
delusion
wishful thinking
fantasy

If you want a coin developed by a random group of computer hobbyists, choose among the 1000 alt coins.

If you want a virtual currency with an established network and infrastructure, choose bitcoin and the people who brought it to 1200, 420, and 6 billion dollars.

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[johnyj]

but devs have no power at all, if a group of devs don't produce the software that users and miners want to use, some other group of devs will...

That's only true if you have lots of alternative implementations, and when there are lots of alternative implementations, a fork will happen sooner or later when two different implementations differ too much in design philosophy. But they can't fork since that will destroy the promise of limited coin supply, so eventually they have to come to agreement or make compromise, otherwise it will be deadlock or hash war ... war never changes

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

but devs have no power at all, if a group of devs don't produce the software that users and miners want to use, some other group of devs will...

That's only true if you have lots of alternative implementations, and when there are lots of alternative implementations, a fork will happen sooner or later when two different implementations differ too much in design philosophy. But they can't fork since that will destroy the promise of limited coin supply, so eventually they have to come to agreement or make compromise, otherwise it will be deadlock or hash war ... war never changes

 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1311502.msg13987810#msg13987810

[adamstgBit]

but devs have no power at all, if a group of devs don't produce the software that users and miners want to use, some other group of devs will...

That's only true if you have lots of alternative implementations, and when there are lots of alternative implementations, a fork will happen sooner or later when two different implementations differ too much in design philosophy. But they can't fork since that will destroy the promise of limited coin supply, so eventually they have to come to agreement or make compromise, otherwise it will be deadlock or hash war ... war never changes

There needs to be some minimal amount of devs willing to dev different versions of bitcoin that poeple want to see. but i'm thinking we are starting to push past this point.

today, if there is enough demand for an alternative client then there will BE an alternative.
There was some demand for bigger blocks BOOM XT was born.
There was some demand for 2MB blocks BOOM Classic was born
There was some demand for "unlimited block space" BOOM Bitcoin Unlimited was born.

The power / willingness to change bitcoins rules goes from the bottom up; devs at the top, miners in the middle, and users at the bottom.

it's a comforting notion.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

but devs have no power at all, if a group of devs don't produce the software that users and miners want to use, some other group of devs will...

That's only true if you have lots of alternative implementations, and when there are lots of alternative implementations, a fork will happen sooner or later when two different implementations differ too much in design philosophy. But they can't fork since that will destroy the promise of limited coin supply, so eventually they have to come to agreement or make compromise, otherwise it will be deadlock or hash war ... war never changes

There needs to be some minimal amount of devs willing to dev different versions of bitcoin that poeple want to see. but i'm thinking we are starting to push past this point.

today, if there is enough demand for an alternative client then there will BE an alternative.
There was some demand for bigger blocks BOOM XT was born.
There was some demand for 2MB blocks BOOM Classic was born
There was some demand for "unlimited block space" BOOM Bitcoin Unlimited was born.

The power / willingness to change bitcoins rules goes from the bottom up; devs at the top, miners in the middle, and users at the bottom.

it's a comforting notion.

There. Now can we relax?

[adamstgBit]

but devs have no power at all, if a group of devs don't produce the software that users and miners want to use, some other group of devs will...

This is a fantasy, unsupported by six years of history.

History gives us btcd, well developed, but completely ignored and irrelevant.

History gives us Mike Hearn, who is damaged, alone, and bitter.

History gives us Gavin Andreson, unsure of his own identity, not committed to Bitcoin, comfortable in his sofa of virtual coin.

History gives us XT, Classic, and Unlimited, "let's put on a show" high school science fair projects put together by Cypherdoc, Peter R, the Toomim brothers, and other pretenders/scammers.

That leaves the Core devs.  Cryptographers, C++ experience, professionals.  Not perfect, but responsible for everything that BTC lovers hold dear.

The idea that you can stop a car on the street and turn the occupants into developers of the next great cryptocurrency is an exercise in

denial
delusion
wishful thinking
fantasy

If you want a coin developed by a random group of computer hobbyists, choose among the 1000 alt coins.

If you want a virtual currency with an established network and infrastructure,choose bitcoin and the people who brought it to 1200
, 420, and 6 billion dollars.

that happened under Gavin's leadership... ( and he's helping classic and unlimited now...)


yes this is the thing about my wild notion that devs have no power, its only true if there's enough of them. aslo the users need to understand this idea and not take anything any one group of dev's say as gospel.

[sgbett]

Only in your fanciful hyperreality does "miners can't mint 1m coins == miners have little to no power"

You are distorting what Prof. Sirer's essay actually says.

Perhaps if you bother to RTFA, its conclusions would seem less like "fanciful hyperreality."

Au contraire blackadder, I was *quoting* your characterisation of TFA

Miners have little to no power in Bitcoin.  If you insist on hanging around and opining, you really should lean how all this stuff works.

Here's a good place to start:

http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/01/03/time-for-bitcoin-user-voice/

It is a common misperception that Bitcoin miners determine the shape of the blockchain. So common, in fact, that I had an academic colleague fall into the same trap, where the thought miners could arbitrarily decide to mint 1 million coins for themselves.

[Lauda]

Obvious to you. To others it's even more obvious that this is a straight out attack from core supporters. Miners and nodes were discouraged by the XT ddos attacks. They work. A blame game would be pointless when the nodes and miners don't dare run the software.

Again, you guys seem to be very easy to manipulate. Maybe Core should DDoS itself and you'd blame Classic supporters this time? Unless there is evidence of such (and there isn't), don't make baseless accusations.

History gives us XT, Classic, and Unlimited, "let's put on a show" high school science fair projects put together by Cypherdoc, Peter R, the Toomim brothers, and other pretenders/scammers.

That leaves the Core devs.  Cryptographers, C++ experience, professionals.  Not perfect, but responsible for everything that BTC lovers hold dear.

This is the thing that people here don't realize. Astounding logic that wants to throw everything we've worked for for a 'high school science fair project'.

[Fatman3001]

This is the thing that people here don't realize. Astounding logic that wants to throw everything we've worked for for a 'high school science fair project'.

Speaking of 'high school science fair project', the Raspberry Pi 3 is about to be released soon. Does this mean it's safe to increase capacity?

I believe that was one of the major hurdles for you, Lauda.

[Zarathustra]

iCEBREAKER, the more you post, the more my IQ continues to drop. I have a sinking suspicion others feel the same way.

Either he is paid by the big blockists to look the small blockers even more disgusting than they already do, or he is to dumb to realize how ridiculous his war memes/texts/pictures are. Why are iCE and Lauda running censored threads? They have to hide the truth.

[Lauda]

Speaking of 'high school science fair project', the Raspberry Pi 3 is about to be released soon. Does this mean it's safe to increase capacity?

I believe that was one of the major hurdles for you, Lauda.

A lot of these things that you fail to acknowledge are important for decentralization. Anything is still better than promoting the Sybil attack for $10/month. Here you go, ignoring the fact that the chances of Classic supporters being the ones behind the DDoS are equal as expected. There is also a possibility that it has nothing to do with either.

-snip-

At this point I'm certain that both sides are scared, as shown.

[Fatman3001]

Speaking of 'high school science fair project', the Raspberry Pi 3 is about to be released soon. Does this mean it's safe to increase capacity?

I believe that was one of the major hurdles for you, Lauda.

A lot of these things that you fail to acknowledge are important for decentralization. Anything is still better than promoting the Sybil attack for $10/month. Here you go, ignoring the fact that the chances of Classic supporters being the ones behind the DDoS are equal as expected. There is also a possibility that it has nothing to do with either.

Huh?

I think I gave my view on the ddos a couple of posts back.

This was just a friendly jab at your earlier Raspberry Pi rant in one of the echo chambers.

[muyuu]

The idea that you can stop a car on the street and turn the occupants into developers of the next great cryptocurrency is an exercise in

denial
delusion
wishful thinking
fantasy

If you want a coin developed by a random group of computer hobbyists, choose among the 1000 alt coins.

Summary for those coming to the thread late.