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Salazarian
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January 25, 2013, 04:21:00 PM |
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You won't get a refund before every cc refund has been sent and till now, NO cc refund has been recorded!
People who have received their refunds still paid a cost, an actual monetary one if they paid with anything other than USD (BTC, Euro etc) due to exchange rates. In any case they lost due to opportunity cost by placing orders with bASIC in all cases they made a choice to not deal with one of the alternative manufacturers and lost out on earlier delivery.
Just to confirm, my order was 25 units, I requested a refund for the credit card transactions around the 11th Jan from Dave and I got the money back this morning in my online statements, I did loose a few percent on the $USD vs EUR exchange rate. But that could have had gone the other way, it just sucks to see the EUR gain so much in the last few weeks :-) And for 4 months my money was tied up and I could not use it for normal business, which could have gained me a lot more. But at least they are keeping their word on the refunds. My personal cost in this unfolding drama (comedy) is that I gave away 6 Avalon reservations (have fun Maurilio!) that in hindsight I should have kept. But the optimistic estimated delivery projected by BFL and bASIC made me place orders at them instead, so now I have the queue again to try and get more Avalon units... Can we have a confirmation, a REAL confirmation, that he really got the money? Like a scan or something? |
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You get merit points when someone likes your post enough to give you some. And for every 2 merit points you receive, you can send 1 merit point to someone else!
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MrTeal
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January 25, 2013, 04:23:35 PM |
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You'll have to ask him. If it makes you feel better though, I also got my credit card refund on the 12, and it hit my bank account about a week ago.
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server
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1 BTC =1 BTC
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January 25, 2013, 04:44:22 PM |
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Twisted cablepair Tom said he refunded $200.000 and over $100.000 in BTC. I think he paid just a few of his "friends" back so they will not burn him at the forums... and jacked the rest of it. Another one we can add to the long list of bitcoin scammers like ......... pffffffffffffCheers Tom |
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Salazarian
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January 25, 2013, 04:56:58 PM |
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Twisted cablepair Tom said he refunded $200.000 and over $100.000 in BTC. I think he paid just a few of his "friends" back so they will not burn him at the forums... and jacked the rest of it. Another one we can add to the long list of bitcoin scammers like ......... pffffffffffffCheers Tom Well that would explain everything! Nobody got before the 20th of Jan a refund! |
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buzzdave
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January 25, 2013, 07:03:21 PM |
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creativex
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January 25, 2013, 07:16:33 PM |
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Thanks Dave, the updates are appreciated. |
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Syke
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January 25, 2013, 07:23:30 PM |
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Dave, the CC customers have nothing to lose. Refund them last. Unless you are personally guaranteeing that every customer will be refunded in full, do the BTC refunds first. |
Buy & Hold
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creativex
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January 25, 2013, 07:26:45 PM |
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The CC customers are the ones that can put Tom in jail if not returned, they're also the ones with an expiration date. I don't think the current policy is surprising.
BTW I'm owed more $$$ in BTC than CC.
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GenTarkin
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January 25, 2013, 08:11:57 PM |
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The CC customers are the ones that can put Tom in jail if not returned, they're also the ones with an expiration date. I don't think the current policy is surprising.
BTW I'm owed more $$$ in BTC than CC.
Hear ya there! .. makes total sense to just run w/ the BTC left from btc orders. Highly doubt we will see our BTC bro but...theres always a chance I suppose. BTC failed us this time around =( thats the saddest part of all this |
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buzzdave
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January 25, 2013, 08:18:01 PM |
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My approach is literally just one of attrition - I've got a huge job to do and needed to break it down to manageable parts. We have probably 75% CC orders, so I can eliminate a huge amount of noise by running those. Another reason for this is because I have direct access to the CC refund trigger, using Stripe's API. What I personally don't have is 10k BTC to send out for refunds. The BTC refunds currently have to be listed for Tom to process. Unless he sends me BTC to do refunds with, I can't directly refund them.
I just want to make it clear to everyone: all I've ever been is an employee of Tom's - I'm not a partner, investor, part owner or otherwise. I'm not physically located near him. We don't work together in an office where we see and speak to each other often. I don't have access to his accounts, I don't benefit from getting this job done in one way or another, except to see to it that everyone gets their money back.
I feel that its the least I can do - I participated in building this up - the right thing to do is see to it that tearing it down is done correctly.
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GenTarkin
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January 25, 2013, 08:20:13 PM |
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To paraphrase .. all CC orders being refunded. BTC is fuxxored because tom doesnt talk to anyone anymore and hes just run off w/ our BTC. Fuck this.
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SgtSpike
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January 25, 2013, 08:54:05 PM |
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And this is when the purpose of the credit card becomes clear.
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dmcurser
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January 25, 2013, 08:54:52 PM |
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agree dave maybe you should hult on cc refund work on btc first that way there is some legal actions being held over his head all you do by processing cc payments first is allow him to run free with the btc
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1Q7TPBHHVmGCvqffYHpXCCBgbcBQ4NwXdW
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MrTeal
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January 25, 2013, 09:03:25 PM |
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agree dave maybe you should hult on cc refund work on btc first that way there is some legal actions being held over his head all you do by processing cc payments first is allow him to run free with the btc
Quite nice of you to use other people's money as a club to get what you want. |
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MonsterZero
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January 25, 2013, 09:05:57 PM |
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Honestly Dave I think the best thing for you is to finish up the CC refunds.. which you said you would today I think... and then never post in a bASIC thread again. Dave said he doesn't have access to BTC so why would he involve himself in this any further. The longer he associates himself with this mess the worse he's going to look. It's nice he's sticking around to help with CC refunds cause it sounds like he's not going to be paid for any of it.
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repentance
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January 25, 2013, 09:15:06 PM |
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agree dave maybe you should hult on cc refund work on btc first that way there is some legal actions being held over his head all you do by processing cc payments first is allow him to run free with the btc
And what legal actions would they be? If Dave stops processing CC refunds, people will do just do chargebacks. It's not like hundreds of people are going to file small claims actions against the company in New York, and even if they did, so what? A judgement is only as valuable as the ability to enforce it. It's not going to be quicker or cheaper for people to obtain a judgement against BTCFPGA LLC and to enforce that judgement than it is to do a chargeback. |
All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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creativex
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January 26, 2013, 05:26:13 AM |
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The CC customers are the ones that can put Tom in jail if not returned, they're also the ones with an expiration date. I don't think the current policy is surprising.
BTW I'm owed more $$$ in BTC than CC. Hear ya there! .. makes total sense to just run w/ the BTC left from btc orders. Highly doubt we will see our BTC bro but...theres always a chance I suppose. BTC failed us this time around =( thats the saddest part of all this I believe they'll be returned and we'll just have to eat the opportunity cost/exchange rate losses. I think Tom just got in way over his head and didn't know what to do. There's already been a wave of BTC refunds & lots of CC refunds. If as Dave says the bulk of the orders were in CC then the BTC balance outstanding probably isn't all that huge. Surely Tom's reputation is worth more to him than the remaining BTCs owed those that trusted him. If he meant to just rabbit with all the BTCs then why the wave of BTC refunds? I'm still a bit pissed at Tom for stringing me along, but if he returns what's mine, and I believe he will, I'll get over it. |
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Syke
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January 26, 2013, 05:28:46 AM |
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I believe they'll be returned and we'll just have to eat the opportunity cost/exchange rate losses. I think Tom just got in way over his head and didn't know what to do. There's already been a wave of BTC refunds & lots of CC refunds. If as Dave says the bulk of the orders were in CC then the BTC balance outstanding probably isn't all that huge. Surely Tom's reputation is worth more to him than the remaining BTCs owed those that trusted him. If he meant to just rabbit with all the BTCs then why the wave of BTC refunds?
I'm still a bit pissed at Tom for stringing me along, but if he returns what's mine, and I believe he will, I'll get over it.
And what happens when the funds run out? Do CC refunds first and the BTC refunds never get done. Refund the BTC first and when the CC funds run out, customers can still do chargebacks and get their refunds that way. The only fair way is to refund BTC first. |
Buy & Hold
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puck2
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January 26, 2013, 07:57:57 AM |
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Whereas it is absolutely clear that all bASIC preorders and subsequent refund requests transacted via BTC have been languishing longer than expected.
And that the value (in USD) of BTC has risen since all preorders (and probably all but a few refund requests) for bASICs were made.
And that it is untenable that a merchant (or customer) should be at liberty to modify the recorded time of a transaction in order to obtain a favorable exchange rate.
I hereby suggest that BTC refunds be valued at either the USD/BTC rate at the refund time requested if ascertainable, or, perhaps, the Jan 8, 2013 closing price at Mt. Gox of $13.74275USD/BTC.
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