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Author Topic: Bitcoins are used only by criminals and speculators...  (Read 6022 times)
01BTC10
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January 22, 2013, 04:55:10 PM
 #1

And it will crash once SilkRoad and pedos get busted because they(drugs and child porn) are the only things bitcoins can buy.

Those are the arguments I keep hearing the most. I'm trying to debunk them using the Wiki/Trade link, 2000+ legals merchants using BitPay and KYC and AML compliant payment processor Bitcoin-Central. I don't forget to tell that bitcoins are only a drop in the ocean of the worldwide illicit markets. The biggest payment processor is still the traditional money system like HSBC.

What are your arguments?
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January 22, 2013, 05:00:10 PM
 #2

that it's the near-anonymity feature that allows to transfer money around the world near-instantly without the need for any bureaucracy

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January 22, 2013, 05:00:28 PM
 #3

Why debunk it?  Bitcoin is like the personal computer, public key cryptography, or the internet.   It doesn't need you to debunk it.  Adoption will happen organically simply because it is vastly superior to the alternatives.

The skeptics will be convinced by results and nothing else.  Each person will have their own personal tipping point and some will still be calling Bitcoin a ponzi/scheme/fad even long after its utility is recognized by almost everyone.  If you have the time, energy, and drive then do "something" (really anything productive) and try to ignore the skeptics.  

To draw a parallel, imagine in 1970 you made it your mission to go around trying to convince everyone that this thing called "the internet" was going to change everything, not just computing but EVERYTHING.   You could rant and rave your entire life away and despite being right accomplish absolutely nothing.  In the process you probably would convince most people you were a loon.  The amount of debunking or lack thereof didn't matter.  When the world was ready for it, internet usage exploded beyond even the most optimistic projections and then just kept doubling and doubling and doubling.  Today two billion people use the internet every day and it has an effect on every aspect of society.  Poverty and lack of global infrastructure, not utility are the only thing limiting it to "only" 2 billion people.

TL/DR:  Do something or wait but ignore the skeptics.


On edit: edited for clarity.
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January 22, 2013, 05:04:13 PM
 #4

TL/DR:  Do something or wait but ignore the skeptics.

I've come to agree with this line of thinking. I have personally tried (fruitlessly) to convince people to try bitcoin, but I have recently come to grips with the fact that world is eating itself. I feel it will only take a certain amount of time before people seek out bitcoin on a regular basis, just like they did for Napster and Kazaa. Use it yourself, tell your friends and family, and if someone says they don't think it's useful, good etc, just shrug and keep using it.

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January 22, 2013, 05:04:43 PM
 #5

Just tell them bitcoin will fail when torrents are stopped, people don't share things by copying them on USB drives, and the heat death of the universe occurs.

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January 22, 2013, 05:06:25 PM
 #6

Why debunk it.  Bitcoin is like the personal computer, public key cryptography, or the internet.   It doesn't need you to debunk it.  Adoption will happen organically simply because it is superior to alternatives. 

Note this doesn't mean put your coins in a paper wallet and sit on your ass until you are a trillionaire it means don't waste your time trying to convince skeptics.  The will be convinced by results and nothing else.  It would be like trying to convince someone in 1970s that the internet was going to change everything.   You could rant and rave for thousands of hours and get nowhere. 

The debunking or lack of debunking didn't matter.  Today two billion people use the internet on a daily basis and it affects every aspect of society. 

TL/DR:  Do something or wait but ignore the skeptics.
Good point. I want to develop service with bitcoin but I'm still thinking about ideas. I'm also learning how the Bitcoin protocol is working and how to develop secure website.
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January 22, 2013, 05:07:55 PM
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Why debunk it.  Bitcoin is like the personal computer, public key cryptography, or the internet.   It doesn't need you to debunk it.  Adoption will happen organically simply because it is superior to alternatives.  

The skeptics will be convinced by the results and nothing else.  Each person will have their own timing point and some will be calling Bitcoin a fad in twenty years just like some people were calling the internet a fad in the 1990s. 

If you got time and drive then do something and ignore the skeptics.  It would be like trying to convince someone in 1970s that this thing called "the internet" was going to change everything (not computing but EVERYTHING).   You could rant and rave for thousands of hours and get nowhere (and in the process convince most people you were a loon).  

The amount of debunking or lack thereof didn't matter.  Today two billion people use the internet on a daily basis and it affects every aspect of society.  Poverty and infrastructure is the only thing preventing internet usage from reaching 100%.  It is that "good".

TL/DR:  Do something or wait but ignore the skeptics.

+1 well said!

My argument to the skeptics is simply this... Bitcoin enables instant transfer of money to anyone, anywhere, at almost no cost. Period.

The second best argument is to simply point to the exchange rate and yell, "SCOREBOARD!"
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January 22, 2013, 06:34:51 PM
 #8

Quote
Bitcoins are used only by criminals, speculators and urmom.

FTFY.

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January 22, 2013, 06:40:54 PM
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Re: Bitcoins are used only by criminals and speculators...

I'd start by reminding the person making this argument that the definition of criminal is arbitrary, and they also are, or will be, a criminal:

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

Odds are, now or in the future, there will be some product that they want to buy, or some activity they want to perform, but which has been prohibited by their nanny government.  Find out from them what that could be, and show them how Bitcoin could be used to get around such restrictions.

If they live in the USA, it could be a toy like Buckyballs (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/story/2012-07-25/buckyballs-ban/56481316/1).  If they live in NY, it could be something as trivial as a large soda (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/nyregion/health-board-approves-bloombergs-soda-ban.html).  

But in a more serious scenario, it could be an organ transplant or FDA-banned medicine that they might need to stay alive (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/171chv/were_starting_a_new_online_pharmacy_network_that/).

And as to the speculator part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3pM4DvzSik
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January 22, 2013, 07:15:39 PM
 #10

You don't need to convince someone about Bitcoin. Just make people they're aware of it. Then when they hear about inflation, German gold, bank bail outs etc and they start thinking "What's the answer?"...

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January 22, 2013, 07:18:57 PM
 #11

Not true, but thanks for your post.
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January 22, 2013, 10:15:53 PM
 #12


To draw a parallel, imagine in 1970 you made it your mission to go around trying to convince everyone that this thing called "the internet" was going to change everything, not just computing but EVERYTHING.  

to draw a parallel, imagine in 1970 you made it your lifes mission to inform people that in 30 years time, the startrek communicator where u flip it open and you are able to talk to people at great distances without a wire. WILL b possible, and not only that everyne will have one. not only ship captains for emergency use. EVERYONE


or the star trek data pad


and not only that, but in 30 years those things will do more, be more technical, look better and be more available then what star trek shows them as.

or that you could buy something in another country without having to send money in post or to a bank account over there first.

moving on 30 years. people still beleive in metal coins and paper. they are just grasping the posibility of electronic money, via things like paypal and credit cards. trying to explain bitcoin is not a 2 minute conversation.

the best way to do it is to find something they want... say alpaca socks for instance...give them a BTC amount and let them learn by trying

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January 22, 2013, 10:21:59 PM
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lol nice one ^^
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January 22, 2013, 10:26:41 PM
 #14

+1 to what DeathAndTaxes said

Basically i apply what is said in The Scorpion King: "If I’m no king, why are you on your knees before me?". Applied to bitcoin is like "If it's worthless and has no future then why can i buy things with it?"

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January 23, 2013, 07:23:12 AM
 #15

Why debunk it?  Bitcoin is like the personal computer, public key cryptography, or the internet.   It doesn't need you to debunk it.  Adoption will happen organically simply because it is vastly superior to the alternatives.

This.  What D&T says.
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January 23, 2013, 09:19:09 AM
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I've always found criminals use Bitcoin to be a hilarious argument, all currencies have criminals using them but let's put Bitcoin up against those other currencies, if criminals using Bitcoin is the only real problem with it, Bitcoin is going to do a lot better when you take into account all the constant complaints that paper money has where there are tons of people inflating the money supply or outright changing the numbers to suit them. The truth is if Bitcoin was governed by people instead of mathematics like it is now, the currency would have tanked a long time ago, but thankfully it isn't and the code is open source as well so it's not like you can't go and make your own version of it that you like if you're not happy with it.

Quote
Basically i apply what is said in The Scorpion King: "If I’m no king, why are you on your knees before me?". Applied to bitcoin is like "If it's worthless and has no future then why can i buy things with it?"

Fuck the kingsguard

Fuck the city

Fuck the king

Cheesy
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January 23, 2013, 09:26:21 AM
 #17

If congressmen don't use bitcoin for getting bribed and bribing, it's no good.  Cool

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January 23, 2013, 09:55:10 AM
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TL/DR:  Do something or wait but ignore the skeptics.

I've come to agree with this line of thinking. I have personally tried (fruitlessly) to convince people to try bitcoin, but I have recently come to grips with the fact that world is eating itself. I feel it will only take a certain amount of time before people seek out bitcoin on a regular basis, just like they did for Napster and Kazaa. Use it yourself, tell your friends and family, and if someone says they don't think it's useful, good etc, just shrug and keep using it.

Wow, four posts into a discussion on criminals and swindlers using bitcoin and the first SCAMMER tag has been spotted. Is that a new record?

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January 23, 2013, 11:40:46 AM
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Why debunk it?  Bitcoin is like the personal computer, public key cryptography, or the internet.   It doesn't need you to debunk it.  Adoption will happen organically simply because it is vastly superior to the alternatives.

The skeptics will be convinced by results and nothing else.  Each person will have their own personal tipping point and some will still be calling Bitcoin a ponzi/scheme/fad even long after its utility is recognized by almost everyone.  If you have the time, energy, and drive then do "something" (really anything productive) and try to ignore the skeptics.  

To draw a parallel, imagine in 1970 you made it your mission to go around trying to convince everyone that this thing called "the internet" was going to change everything, not just computing but EVERYTHING.   You could rant and rave your entire life away and despite being right accomplish absolutely nothing.  In the process you probably would convince most people you were a loon.  The amount of debunking or lack thereof didn't matter.  When the world was ready for it, internet usage exploded beyond even the most optimistic projections and then just kept doubling and doubling and doubling.  Today two billion people use the internet every day and it has an effect on every aspect of society.  Poverty and lack of global infrastructure, not utility are the only thing limiting it to "only" 2 billion people.

TL/DR:  Do something or wait but ignore the skeptics.


On edit: edited for clarity.

Exactly. Let people figure it out.

If congressmen don't use bitcoin for getting bribed and bribing, it's no good.  Cool

They will be, in short order. Congress always boldly led any bribery research, much like the porn industry boldly led the early Internet into further refinements of rule 34.

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January 23, 2013, 12:41:49 PM
 #20

I've always said Bitcoins hold good value because of the silk road and people wanting to avoid paying taxes or doing paperwork for transfering money from account through account in financial institutions.

But I never looked at the bribery angle. Which is a great idea since I remember, or think I remember a political campaign which accepted Bitcoins.

Money laundering is also a good one.

More and more people will start accepting bitcoins, the one thing to figure out is how to peg it to fiat for mass acceptance to avoid having to continuosly change price listings because of the constant fluctuations in value.

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