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Author Topic: Will we see the day...  (Read 2419 times)
notme
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January 24, 2013, 06:49:30 PM
 #21

BTC1 = BTC1, no matter if it's two half-BTC inputs, a thousand mBTC inputs or 100 million one-satoshi inputs. Or even a CASASCIUS coin. Or a brainwallet.

That is why the method used to exchange BTC is mostly irrelevant (except for security and convenience).

Smiley

I'm not sure 100 million inputs would fit in a block.  It would certainly require a very large fee.
New self-challenge: Create a transaction larger than 1MB.  See if Bitcoin network esplodes itself.

+1

If it does I'm going to be sad for the role I played in its destruction.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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dancingnancy
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January 24, 2013, 06:52:44 PM
 #22

where owning 1 BTC will mean that you're rich?

Rich: Having a great deal of money or assets; wealthy.

With only 21 million BTC, it's not hard to predict that owning 1 BTC would be extremely hard and the decimal places will start to matter more and more.

How far are we of days where 1BTC will mean you are rich? I don't want to translate into $$$ amounts because maybe in 50 years one million dollars is what 50,000 dollars is today so. I just use the word "rich"



If it keeps going as planned, I don't believe 1 would necessarily make you "rich," but at the same time not entirely poor.  I think I saw a infographic somewhere stating for BTC to be 1% of the world economy, it would have to be priced around $10,000 for 1 bitcoin.  I'll try to find it again real quick.

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mp420
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January 24, 2013, 08:01:31 PM
 #23

The problem is, as of now the bitcoin network won't scale up to 50 times the current transaction rate.

It is very debatable if it will ever scale up 1000-fold.
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January 24, 2013, 10:09:50 PM
 #24

The problem is, as of now the bitcoin network won't scale up to 50 times the current transaction rate.

It is very debatable if it will ever scale up 1000-fold.

Theoretically, the free-market transaction fee model will help relieve saturation in the blockchain. I don't believe Satoshi specifically intended Bitcoin would always be conducive to microtransactions.

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SgtSpike
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January 24, 2013, 10:12:08 PM
 #25

The problem is, as of now the bitcoin network won't scale up to 50 times the current transaction rate.

It is very debatable if it will ever scale up 1000-fold.

Theoretically, the free-market transaction fee model will help relieve saturation in the blockchain. I don't believe Satoshi specifically intended Bitcoin would always be conducive to microtransactions.
Does that mean we must follow Satoshi's footsteps?  Can Bitcoin not be expanded to include support for microtransactions indefinitely?

I would argue that within 20-30 years, 1000-fold scaling will be completely possible and practical.
nobbynobbynoob
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January 25, 2013, 02:54:52 AM
 #26

If most users agree to the "upgrade" then sure, why not?

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Akka
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January 25, 2013, 06:21:43 AM
 #27

The problem is, as of now the bitcoin network won't scale up to 50 times the current transaction rate.

It is very debatable if it will ever scale up 1000-fold.

Theoretically, the free-market transaction fee model will help relieve saturation in the blockchain. I don't believe Satoshi specifically intended Bitcoin would always be conducive to microtransactions.
Does that mean we must follow Satoshi's footsteps?  Can Bitcoin not be expanded to include support for microtransactions indefinitely?

I would argue that within 20-30 years, 1000-fold scaling will be completely possible and practical.

I think so too, from a bandwidth standpoint it would already be possible for the network to handle the same amount of transactions that visa does (2000 per sec.) the limiting factor is the max. of the Block size.

Although increasing it to the max. needed would make it impossible for the average user to run a full node. So increasing it would only be feasible as soon as a significant amount of Web-servers are running full nodes.

For more see: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

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flipperfish
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January 25, 2013, 10:30:31 AM
 #28

The problem is, as of now the bitcoin network won't scale up to 50 times the current transaction rate.

It is very debatable if it will ever scale up 1000-fold.

Theoretically, the free-market transaction fee model will help relieve saturation in the blockchain. I don't believe Satoshi specifically intended Bitcoin would always be conducive to microtransactions.
Does that mean we must follow Satoshi's footsteps?  Can Bitcoin not be expanded to include support for microtransactions indefinitely?

I would argue that within 20-30 years, 1000-fold scaling will be completely possible and practical.

I think so too, from a bandwidth standpoint it would already be possible for the network to handle the same amount of transactions that visa does (2000 per sec.) the limiting factor is the max. of the Block size.

Although increasing it to the max. needed would make it impossible for the average user to run a full node. So increasing it would only be feasible as soon as a significant amount of Web-servers are running full nodes.

For more see: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

But with Block-Pruning implemented the requirements to run a full node are reduced. So I think it will be still possible for the average user to run a full node even with a 1000-fold increase in transactions/unspent outputs. The pruned size of unspent transactions is currently at about 150 MB, so with a 1000-fold increase (and asuming a linear dependency between transactions per second and size of unspent transactions) this would be 150 GB, perfectly acceptable for the average home user. (Well maybe not with a mobile phone or tablet...)
justusranvier
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January 25, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
 #29

Although increasing it to the max. needed would make it impossible for the average user to run a full node. So increasing it would only be feasible as soon as a significant amount of Web-servers are running full nodes.
If Bitcoin grows to the point at which it is handling that many transactions per second the "average users" will be businesses. Currently these businesses are collectively spending hundreds of billions of dollars to move money around, so if they switch to bitcoin and spend just 1/10 of their previous costs on mining there will be plenty of resources available to solve the problem.
Akka
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January 25, 2013, 01:36:22 PM
 #30

Although increasing it to the max. needed would make it impossible for the average user to run a full node. So increasing it would only be feasible as soon as a significant amount of Web-servers are running full nodes.
If Bitcoin grows to the point at which it is handling that many transactions per second the "average users" will be businesses. Currently these businesses are collectively spending hundreds of billions of dollars to move money around, so if they switch to bitcoin and spend just 1/10 of their previous costs on mining there will be plenty of resources available to solve the problem.

I concur, I only wanted to lay out, why we have to go this way in little steps. Right now the Network is still depending on Users to be Full Nodes, so it is necessary to ensure there are no more transactions in a block, than a normal internet connection can handle.

This may change in due time and than the blocksize restrictions can be lifted.

Quote
Let's assume an average rate of 2000tps, so just VISA. Transactions vary in size from about 0.2 kilobytes to over 1 kilobyte, but it's averaging half a kilobyte today.

That means that you need to keep up with around 8 megabits/second of transaction data (2000tps * 512 bytes) / 1024 bytes in a kilobyte / 1024 kilobytes in a megabyte = 0.97 megabytes per second * 8 = 7.8 megabits/second.

Currently the Blocksize limit allows for about 7tps.

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