Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[Bitinity]

It will be very difficult for Fabio, the Desmo rockets are very difficult to overtake on this course, the Yamaha simply lacks the top speed and must always be very late on the brakes. Maybe he has an advantage of slipstream behind the Ducati?

It's true what I thought, big power bikes will dominate this race. See Ducati and Honda appear to dominate. Apart from that Marquez looked great today, he fought with Bagnaia for 1st position. Unfortunately he was a little wide making Bagnaia more flexible in the front position. Marquez looked like he really wanted to win here he tried to overtake a few times, but Bagnaia seemed calmer so he was able to hold on.

It was spectacular battle between Bagnaia and Marquez in the last few laps. Marquez tried so hard to overtake Bagnaia, around 7-8 tries if I remember it correctly but always fail due to getting a bit wide so Bagnaia could retake the position on that 7-8 tries. As predicted, Quartararo was not able to compete for the podium and finished on 8th.

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[blue Snow]

Congratulations to Francesco Bagnaia, the 2021 Aragon MotoGP champion and Marquez in second place.

The two riders went ahead of each other to reach the last lap and it was nice to see these two riders, and I think everyone thought only Bagnaia and Maruez were racing because the cameraman was only focused on them because they were both very interesting to watch.

I didn't think Marquez got the podium yesterday, but he deserved it. In the last 2 laps, both very fierce competition in bend, sometimes, Mark surpasses Bagnaia, but he Surpasses him again so on until last the finish, mark make a bit mistaken off the track on the sand, then make Bagnaia farther away from him. I focus either on Quartararo, what happens with him?, I guess he gets the trouble with tire or machine cycle.

[Koal-84]

Congratulations to Francesco Bagnaia, the 2021 Aragon MotoGP champion and Marquez in second place.

The two riders went ahead of each other to reach the last lap and it was nice to see these two riders, and I think everyone thought only Bagnaia and Maruez were racing because the cameraman was only focused on them because they were both very interesting to watch.

I didn't think Marquez got the podium yesterday, but he deserved it. In the last 2 laps, both very fierce competition in bend, sometimes, Mark surpasses Bagnaia, but he Surpasses him again so on until last the finish, mark make a bit mistaken off the track on the sand, then make Bagnaia farther away from him. I focus either on Quartararo, what happens with him?, I guess he gets the trouble with tire or machine cycle.

An amazing performance by Bagnaia, beating Marc Marquez in Aragon and making him look old with every overtaking attempt is a not easy task. And at the end Marc tried the crowbar and has clearly brake mistake, Bagnaia had a very good day and can imagine for the future that he will be the next world champion on Ducati.

Yamaha was simply not competitive on the track, Fabio has brought out the maximum for Yamaha, more was not inside.

[LTU_btc]

After watching replay of accident multiple times I tend to agree that was more Verstappen fault. Though, both are partially responsible for it. Hamilton defended position and closed doors for Max. If he would left more space for Max, he would loose position. I think Max was able to push brakes to avoid contact - sometimes he just have to be less aggressive and more calm - after all it wasn't last lap of race to risk so much.
Fight for tittle reaching hottest point. And we can expect for more accidents between Hamilton and Max when they go side by side.

[DIA7]

After watching replay of accident multiple times I tend to agree that was more Verstappen fault. Though, both are partially responsible for it. Hamilton defended position and closed doors for Max. If he would left more space for Max, he would loose position. I think Max was able to push brakes to avoid contact - sometimes he just have to be less aggressive and more calm - after all it wasn't last lap of race to risk so much.
Fight for tittle reaching hottest point. And we can expect for more accidents between Hamilton and Max when they go side by side.

The number one reason for thing the accident was Verstappen a he was too recklessness and stubbornne.
And many of the followers for this season would agree , you would know very well who is to blame. As in that position Hamilton had the right to defend his position Verstappen was too late to overtake in that corner.
Also i blame Max Verstappen because it's not the first time he's done it and this is far from immoral and far from sportsmanship in Formula and that from the beginning of the season Max was aggressive when overtaking, he does that by forcing his opponents off the track he did it a lot this season,
he pushed Lewis out of the track on the first lap and did it again because he knew it was the only way to overtake Lewis Hamilton, but Lewis in the second was more stubborn than him. I think it's time to put an end to this farce .
Anyway it was nice and well deserved win for McLaren. They had a good race from the start.
Bottas reaching in the podium was great.

[DireWolfM14]

Congratulations to Francesco Bagnaia, the 2021 Aragon MotoGP champion and Marquez in second place.

The two riders went ahead of each other to reach the last lap and it was nice to see these two riders, and I think everyone thought only Bagnaia and Maruez were racing because the cameraman was only focused on them because they were both very interesting to watch.

I didn't think Marquez got the podium yesterday, but he deserved it. In the last 2 laps, both very fierce competition in bend, sometimes, Mark surpasses Bagnaia, but he Surpasses him again so on until last the finish, mark make a bit mistaken off the track on the sand, then make Bagnaia farther away from him. I focus either on Quartararo, what happens with him?, I guess he gets the trouble with tire or machine cycle.

An amazing performance by Bagnaia, beating Marc Marquez in Aragon and making him look old with every overtaking attempt is a not easy task. And at the end Marc tried the crowbar and has clearly brake mistake, Bagnaia had a very good day and can imagine for the future that he will be the next world champion on Ducati.

Yamaha was simply not competitive on the track, Fabio has brought out the maximum for Yamaha, more was not inside.

That was a lot of fun to watch.  So many chances for Marc to get clear but Pecco just wasn't having it.  Bagnaia had a great race, obviously excited to get his first win in MotoGP.  I'm sure it made it even better having fended off the 8-time champ who was nipping at his heals.  You may very well be right about him being the next to bring Ducati the championship.  There's very little chance of that happening this year with only 5 races left in the schedule, however.

My main take-away from yesterday's race however, is that Marquez is back!  Marc looked great yesterday, that was by far his best performance since coming back from his injury.  The rest of the riders should be concerned to see him striving to get back to his previous form, and now it looks like it's just a matter of time.  I predict he'll win a race or two before the season is over.  He's been super strong at the Circuit of the Americas in the past, I wouldn't be surprised to see him at the top of the podium in Texas this year.

[AakZaki]

I didn't think Marquez got the podium yesterday, but he deserved it. In the last 2 laps, both very fierce competition in bend, sometimes, Mark surpasses Bagnaia, but he Surpasses him again so on until last the finish, mark make a bit mistaken off the track on the sand, then make Bagnaia farther away from him. I focus either on Quartararo, what happens with him?, I guess he gets the trouble with tire or machine cycle.

Quartararo bad trend in Argaon continued, but this time he was better. In fact, I also predict that he will have difficulty because of the type of track that is not very friendly. He's not very strong for the track in Aragon. I also saw that he was not like in qualifying, he seemed to be slower. The local media in my country mentioned that there was a problem with the rear of the bike, but he didn't mention the tires

[justdimin]

It was a glorious race. My favorite Lando managed to be second, Danny managed to win, and Max/Lewis took each other out. What more can you ever want from a race, and do not forget Bottas finally being unchained and doesn't give a damn about anything and he just put the metal to the pedal and came in third, all the way from back. It is finally a good F1 race, after so many not so great races I am finally feeling like this is a good one.

It took a while to actually be here, actually see a great race, but it finally happened. I also have to say that the first 1-2 of any team this year is a McLaren . Red Bull didn't have any 1-2 which is expected with how Perez is not doing so great, and Lewis/Bottas never came in 1-2 this season neither, so the first one-two is McLaren Danny and Lando as well. I really hope that Lando becomes a superstar that wins many championships in the future, he is definitely on the right track (pun intended ).

[blue Snow]

Yamaha was simply not competitive on the track, Fabio has brought out the maximum for Yamaha, more was not inside.

Fabio feels a problem with the tire (looks expired like used up for over 15 laps), I heard about Yamaha always has a problem with Rare tired. whatever happens, that was over, he was still on top stand with 214 points followed by Bagnaian with 43 points different. And Marquez has growing up to 10th. Next race on San marino, will Franco Morbidelli to be champion again?.

[Bitinity]

Yamaha was simply not competitive on the track, Fabio has brought out the maximum for Yamaha, more was not inside.

Fabio feels a problem with the tire (looks expired like used up for over 15 laps), I heard about Yamaha always has a problem with Rare tired. whatever happens, that was over, he was still on top stand with 214 points followed by Bagnaian with 43 points different. And Marquez has growing up to 10th. Next race on San marino, will Franco Morbidelli to be champion again?.

Is he coming back for the next race? I do not know the last update of his condition, afaik he is still in recovery stage after the surgery of his knee injury. Even id he will be coming back, he wont be able to win due to non 100% condition as well as the fact that he is not competitive at all this season. Anyway, next race will be another difficult race for Quartararo and Yamaha imho. Misano is similar to Aragon which is a friendly track to Honda and Ducati so I would expect to see another battle between Honda vs Ducati.

[tokeweed]

It was Hamilton’s fault...  Just like Silver Stone.

But it was good for Verstappen.  He retains the lead in the driver’s championship.  Hamilton screwed himself over.  Lmao.

The stewards' decisions is that Verstappen is predominantly to blame. He takes a 3 place grid penalty at the next race (plus 2 points on his licence).
I'm sure he didn't mean to plant his car on top of Hamilton's, but this sort of thing in football is called a professional foul - it did appear that he deliberately took Hamilton out, so as not to lose points.

But I think both drivers need to cool down before one of them gets hurt. At Silverstone Hamilton was found predominantly to blame. The word "predominantly" occurs both times, and is key here. Neither driver wants to give an inch.

Lmao.

I don't think that's appropriate. If we didn't have the halo, a driver would be dead.

I was laughing after the fact...  To which, Hamilton did screw himself over.  Lmao.  He could have avoided the collision and be ahead in points right now.  Merc power is faster in that track as showed by the McLarens.  

And check my post a couple of other posts up.  I was saying Halo is good and it’s what saved Hamilton from injury or even death.  I’m not trying to be insensitive.  

[Koal-84]

After watching replay of accident multiple times I tend to agree that was more Verstappen fault. Though, both are partially responsible for it. Hamilton defended position and closed doors for Max. If he would left more space for Max, he would loose position. I think Max was able to push brakes to avoid contact - sometimes he just have to be less aggressive and more calm - after all it wasn't last lap of race to risk so much.
Fight for tittle reaching hottest point. And we can expect for more accidents between Hamilton and Max when they go side by side.

In my opinion it is difficult to say who was definitely to blame, Verstappen could have given way or Hamilton could have simply left more space, or if the curbs were not so high it would not have lifted the car out.  Personally, I classify it as a normal racing accident and am glad that a penalty was not set too high, think with the 3 starting places back Verstappen can live well.

Think there will be more accidents between the two this season, no one wants to leave the other place.

[coinlocket$]

More drivers are now penalized after Monza this is the full list.

Verstappen 3 positions in next start

Giovinazzi Mazepin Ocon Perez got only "points" in their F1 license.
Perez is now 5 points away to be banned for 1 GP.

[Luzin]

he was still on top stand with 214 points followed by Bagnaian with 43 points different. And Marquez has growing up to 10th. Next race on San marino, will Franco Morbidelli to be champion again?.

The smaller the difference in points between Quartararo and Bagnaia, the more interesting it will be if Quartararo can't hold on. Because there are still six races.

I tink Dificult Morbidelli winner in San Marino. Look their perform in this season,  he's not like last season. He's had a setback, I don't understand the problem, but it's bad. I'm not sure he'll be able to get on the podium there.

Temporary standing Moto Gp After Moto GP Aragon.

1. F. Quartararo 214
2. F. Bagnaia 161
3. J. Mir 157
4. J. Zarco 137
5. J. Miller 129
6. B. Binder 117
7. A. Espargaró 96
8. M. Viñales 95
9. M. Oliveira 87
10. M. Márquez 79
11. J. Martín 71
12. Á. Rins 68
13. T. Nakagami 64
14. P. Espargaró 55
15. Á. Márquez 49
16. E. Bastianini 45
17. F. Morbidelli 40
18. I. Lecuona 38
19. D. Petrucci 37
20. L. Marini 28
21. V. Rossi 28
22. S. Bradl 11
23. D. Pedrosa 6
24. L. Savadori 4
25. M. Pirro 3
26. T. Rabat 1
27. C. Crutchlow 0
28. G. Gerloff 0
29. J. Dixon 0

Source

[tokeweed]

More drivers are now penalized after Monza this is the full list.

Verstappen 3 positions in next start

Giovinazzi Mazepin Ocon Perez got only "points" in their F1 license.
Perez is now 5 points away to be banned for 1 GP.

I guess the next race is gonna be more disciplined drivers which could make the event boring...?  But how’s that Sochi track for action and overtakes?  I think we haven’t seen the last of Verstappen and Hamilton getting into ‘something’ yet.  Both are tough drivers which almost always lead to crashes.  

Edit:  And in hindsight, the bet to make at Italy GP was Bottas top 6 which could’ve had a decent line.

[justdimin]

In my opinion it is difficult to say who was definitely to blame, Verstappen could have given way or Hamilton could have simply left more space, or if the curbs were not so high it would not have lifted the car out.  Personally, I classify it as a normal racing accident and am glad that a penalty was not set too high, think with the 3 starting places back Verstappen can live well.

Think there will be more accidents between the two this season, no one wants to leave the other place.

I do agree that it was Verstappen that was in the wrong here, however after what Lewis did back in British gp and not getting any penalty at all and winning so many points? I feel like that makes no sense to give Max this much penalty as well. They should have either given both of them the same penalty, or they should not have given them any penalty at all, you can't have one and not the other.

FIA is acting like they would prefer if Lewis keeps on winning, they were researching on Red Bulls wings as well very carefully just to give them a penalty and yet they ended up not finding anything, or the fact that they changed pitstop times as well just to keep Max a bit slower because RB pitstop is very fast. Long story short I 100% agree that this accident was 100% his fault, BUT there were many times he had no fault and yet got screwed over as well.

[Pulsar77]

Max Verstappen can think that Hamilton was guilty but I really believe that it was Verstappen's fault. What was Hamilton supposed to do in the end? Of course, he will try to close the space to prevent Verstappen from passing himself. But Verstappen was so stubborn that he pushed his luck a lot. And we witnessed one of the weirdest and scariest accidents also. I'm thankful that Hamilton didn't crush thanks to HALO.

[aesma]

In my opinion it is difficult to say who was definitely to blame, Verstappen could have given way or Hamilton could have simply left more space, or if the curbs were not so high it would not have lifted the car out.  Personally, I classify it as a normal racing accident and am glad that a penalty was not set too high, think with the 3 starting places back Verstappen can live well.

Think there will be more accidents between the two this season, no one wants to leave the other place.

I do agree that it was Verstappen that was in the wrong here, however after what Lewis did back in British gp and not getting any penalty at all and winning so many points? I feel like that makes no sense to give Max this much penalty as well. They should have either given both of them the same penalty, or they should not have given them any penalty at all, you can't have one and not the other.

FIA is acting like they would prefer if Lewis keeps on winning, they were researching on Red Bulls wings as well very carefully just to give them a penalty and yet they ended up not finding anything, or the fact that they changed pitstop times as well just to keep Max a bit slower because RB pitstop is very fast. Long story short I 100% agree that this accident was 100% his fault, BUT there were many times he had no fault and yet got screwed over as well.

The penalty isn't about the consequences regarding the points and the stewards are very clear about that. Hamilton's penalty after the Silverstone incident was very standard, his car was fast and he could still win, and of course he didn't damage his car too much in the accident.

Here Verstappen knew he was probably going to lose to Hamilton and decided to take too much risk, he couldn't get a 10s penalty since he took himself out in the accident. 3 places grid penalty is the lowest penalty possible (Hamilton got 10s when the lowest is 5s).

Verstappen never gives space, he showed it again during the first lap, so Hamilton had no choice but to not give space either.

[Koal-84]

In my opinion it is difficult to say who was definitely to blame, Verstappen could have given way or Hamilton could have simply left more space, or if the curbs were not so high it would not have lifted the car out.  Personally, I classify it as a normal racing accident and am glad that a penalty was not set too high, think with the 3 starting places back Verstappen can live well.

Think there will be more accidents between the two this season, no one wants to leave the other place.

I do agree that it was Verstappen that was in the wrong here, however after what Lewis did back in British gp and not getting any penalty at all and winning so many points? I feel like that makes no sense to give Max this much penalty as well. They should have either given both of them the same penalty, or they should not have given them any penalty at all, you can't have one and not the other.

FIA is acting like they would prefer if Lewis keeps on winning, they were researching on Red Bulls wings as well very carefully just to give them a penalty and yet they ended up not finding anything, or the fact that they changed pitstop times as well just to keep Max a bit slower because RB pitstop is very fast. Long story short I 100% agree that this accident was 100% his fault, BUT there were many times he had no fault and yet got screwed over as well.

I also have the feeling that Hamilton (Mercedes) is somewhat favored by the official side and so he can also stay close to Verstappen in the world championship, with Verstappen in the last races, luck is not on his side, but that can change again.

Back to the MotoGP, this weekend is driven in Misano and two old faces give their comeback at Yamaha, Morbidelli drives now until 2023 at the Yamaha factory team and Dovizioso will go alongside Rossi at the start. Last year it was a very good track for Yamaha, I'm curious if it will be the same again this year.

[Cnut237]

I do agree that it was Verstappen that was in the wrong here, however after what Lewis did back in British gp and not getting any penalty at all and winning so many points? I feel like that makes no sense to give Max this much penalty as well. They should have either given both of them the same penalty, or they should not have given them any penalty at all, you can't have one and not the other.

I'm not sure about your argument.
Hamilton was judged predominantly to blame at Silverstone, and got a 10 sec penalty in the race.
Verstappen was judged predominantly to blame here, couldn't get a penalty in the race because he crashed out, so gets a grid penalty in the next race.

It's debatable which is worst out of a 10s in-race penalty or a 3-place grid penalty. Probably depends on the circuit. But we can't say one got a penalty and the other not at all - this is clearly untrue. And they can't have the same penalty, when the first one is an in-race penalty, and the second one happens when the driver is no longer in the race.



I think the cause of all this is Max is famous for never backing out of a manoeuvre, whereas Lewis in the past has backed out. But at Silverstone Lewis decided two could play that game, and he wasn't going to give any ground either. So we now have two drivers who, against each other, will not pull out of the move under any circumstances. Result so far: two crashes. And after this latest crash, the situation certainly will not change. We can expect dramatic clashes every time they come head-to-head now, with neither willing to cede position.