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Author Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum  (Read 68123 times)
wachtwoord
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December 26, 2012, 01:20:25 AM
 #1401

He is not serious. yw.

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repentance
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December 26, 2012, 01:49:05 AM
 #1402

Fuck the vase, how can you trust someone who not only owns a poodle but has mistaken it for a canvas?

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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December 26, 2012, 02:03:35 AM
 #1403

Quote
Is that a Ming Vase? Was it purchased with pre-ordered money? Can I see a receipt?

Normally I'd write this off as a joke, but I honestly can't tell if you're serious.  That's how ludicrous yours and others requests have been in the past... something that should obviously be a joke is so close to the current reality that it's indistinguishable from it.

 Roll Eyes

Yeah, that's pretty much my reaction, too.  I would like to be able to enjoy that joke, because it's a good one.  It would be funny if I didn't have it in the back of my mind asking "Is he serious? WTF?"

Now who's playing who? Surely, I though, there would be no way Josh would reply to only a smiley, but I now stand corrected.

I believe you know damn well that it was a joke, but opt to pretend that it isn't. Fine! But by you posting what I've quoted reveals something new.

Quote
It would be funny if I didn't have it in the back of my mind asking "Is he serious? WTF?"

Doesn't the above negate the below?

Quote
The truth of the matter is, I whip out my missive in a minute or two and then completely forget about it until I click the "Unread Topics" again.

Looks to me, and perhaps others, you're having a difficult time dismissing what obviously was humor.

I believe the truth of the matter is that you want to continue the dialog. Fine! Let's continue, and since I'm unfortunately not...

Quote
...creative enough to come up with anything new.

http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/dsp.cgi?msg=5158

Quote
X-Message-Number: 5158
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:47:34 -0800
From: cge@nwlink.com (Christian Eyerman)
Subject: LFCity

Abridged fax reprint
THE SUNDAY TIMES
News: page 6
HEADLINE: Laissez Faire City:  Queue forms for capitalist utopia
2 July 1995

By Jason Burke and Tim Rayment London Sunday Times

The advertisement in The Economist that roused interest:  "Laissez Faire
City   Ayn Rand wondered what would happen if an underdeveloped host country
were to lease an area of one hundred square miles to one thousand free
market individuals and give them a fifty year free reign to administer the
area without goernment rule"

LADY THATCHER would love it: John Redwood might need it.  Their dream of a
tax-free paradise where greed is good and entrepeneurial freedom guaranteed
is being founded somewhere among the jungles of South America.
        Unhappy capitalists are invited to escape the nanny nations fo
Europe for a community where they can hop about by helicopter and do
business as they please.  British investors are among 60 people trying to
borrow a chunk of land from a poor country to create the ultimate enterprise
state.  
        The scheme, advertised in The Economist, is to lease 100 square mile
of territory and build Laissez Faire City.  If Tony Blair takes over
Britain, the nation's lost Thatcherites will be able to flee to a place
dedicated to the open market and free of all government for 50 years.
        "It is an amazing adventure, aimed at freeing the potential of the
world's entrepreneurs from the vice of collectivism," said Sonny Vleisides,
a computing consultant who is among the founders. "If you want to dig a well
on your property and provide yourself with water, then you dig a well.
There's nobody to tell you your well is too deep, too wide, or interferes
with the water table."
        The project's Costa Rica-based trustees hope to begin building
within three years.  Last week the post brought an enthusiasic response from
Britain:  business people, students, pensioners, a trainee surgeon and a
barrister were among those who could see their future in a libertarian
Utopia without taxes, customs regulations or red tape.  The aim is to
emulate Hong Kong, an area of barren rocks when China granted a lease to a
British consortium in 1898.
        For most of us, used to a society that tries to protect people
against illness and exploitation and offers a few basics such as water and
roads, Utopia might come as a shock.  To begin with, Laissez Faire City will
be just a hotel.  You need to choose a plot of land by helicopter because
there will not be any roads.
        "Beyond that stage, free-market economics come in and swoop downd
and build the most wonderful infrastructure you have ever seen," Vleisides
enthused. "if there is a need, it will be built.  That is the whole principle."
        So a big private hotel is expected to go up next to the founder's
little hotel.  Its guests will create businesses that employ thousands of
people from the surounding "host country", allowed in on work permits.   For
half a century the little city will grow.  And then, like Hong Kong, it is
handed back.
        "When you look at mounting bureaucracy from Brussels and our own
government's constant interference in business, the attraction of investing
in something like Laissez Faire City is obvious," said Peter Nichols, 65,
from Great Missenden in Buckinghamshire, who recently sold his mult-million
pound food business and was struck by the advertisement.  "It is something I
will be looking into further."
        "I'm very ecited," said an Oxfordshre investor who asked not to be
named.  "It is time to create this new society.  I would very much like to
be a part of any such scheme."
        The project is based on the principles of the late Ayn Rand, a
novelist and political theorist.  The Fountainhead (1943), her best-known
work, made into a film starring Gary Cooper, depicts an architect-hero whose
genius prevails over sightless social conformity.  In Atlas Shrugged (1957),
frustrated western businessmen set up a dynamic city state in the mountains
of South America.
        "When Laissez Faire City becomes a reality," investors are told,
"Rand's spirit will undoubtedly become one with the rays of sun which shall
shine down on what may become known as the miracle city of the 21st century."

        Unfortunately, the facts may not match the hype.  Questioning of the
founders reveals plans for the land use fees.  A flow of money is needed for
the host country, not least to encourage it to hand over land to a bunch of
foreigners.  The cash will come from property leases.
        Economists are sceptical.  professor Charles Bean of the London
School of Economics, saw the idea as potty.  "You can create very successful
areas with trade incentives," he said, "but the notion that you can create a
self-sustaining capitalist nirvana contradicts the fundamentals of economics."
        Sir Alfred Sherman, a Thatcherite guru, said:  "My job is trying to
find ways of making our imperfect society work, not create new ones."
        Sir Benjamin slade, the right-wing shipping magnate who never deals
with countries that have green in their flag or where people do not wear
overcoats in winter, thought he would stay in Britain: "This doesn't really
have anything to offer the international businessman.  not unless you do it
on the Isle of Wight."

The Statue of Liberty from the ye ol playbook may not have worked as planned the last time tried, but it's been awhile and maybe the minions won't expect it, let alone connect the dots, as the team's at an impasse on the gridiron with the goalpost in sight.
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December 26, 2012, 02:17:54 AM
 #1404

Quote
The irony is that you've benefited me as well Mr. Z. If you weren't such a...character(edited for Xmas) then I'd have ordered from BFL and I too would be waiting till after all the honest manufacturers shipped for an ASIC product. Also by deceiving so many with your bogus "scheduled shipments" BFLism(scam) you've tied their funds up so they won't be hashing for months, which lowers ROI for those that ordered from your competition.

There you go again, lying to make your point.  That's really the only way you CAN make your point, because the truth of the matter, when actually spelled out is kind of anticlimactic.  Every other ASIC manufacturer has also had delays.  No one has shipped, yet you can somehow make the above statement.  Heh... I challenge you to make a point without lying once.  Every post you make taking a shot at BFL in the past month has included at least one lie in it... so lets see you take a shot without resorting to a lie to bolster your argument.

Please be so kind as to point out the lie. If you're referring to my OPINION that Avalon and BTCFPGA will ship before BFL then that's clearly not a lie as it's my opinion...but then a self proclaimed genius like you should know the difference. Or perhaps you meant that you didn't actually "schedule shipments" in October? Wink

BTW please point out the lie in every post I've made in the past month in which I've mentioned BFL or you just lied. Gee that was easy.

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December 26, 2012, 02:25:08 AM
 #1405

BECAUSE BFL MISGUIDED ALMOST THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY TO PRE-ORDER FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SHIP.

No, the "misguided" ones are those who thought a relatively new company would meet their first shipping estimate on their first ASIC product.
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December 26, 2012, 02:28:00 AM
 #1406

There you go again, lying to make your point.  That's really the only way you CAN make your point, because the truth of the matter, when actually spelled out is kind of anticlimactic.  Every other ASIC manufacturer has also had delays.  No one has shipped, yet you can somehow make the above statement.  Heh... I challenge you to make a point without lying once.  Every post you make taking a shot at BFL in the past month has included at least one lie in it... so lets see you take a shot without resorting to a lie to bolster your argument.

Please stop feeding them Sad

Well, at least people stopped talking about warehouses.
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December 26, 2012, 02:35:52 AM
 #1407

Now that we're past the 50 BTC reward, it doesn't make sense for BFL to rush things and release a buggy product, just to be first.    I'll bet that Avalon and BFL will be closer to eachother in ship date than either of the companies want to be, but the BFL product will have significantly more polish to it.  

BFL's first batch of chips appear to have been troubled by issues that didn't show up in simulation- with this being the case, I'd much rather have the second batch be one where BFL takes time to get it right.  They are doing this right now by testing the boards for bugs prior to receipt of the asics. Smiley  



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creativex
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December 26, 2012, 02:37:05 AM
 #1408

BECAUSE BFL MISGUIDED ALMOST THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY TO PRE-ORDER FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SHIP.

No, the "misguided" scammed ones are those who thought a new self proclaimed experienced ASIC design company would meet their first second third shipping estimate on their first ASIC product.

FTFY.

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December 26, 2012, 02:40:28 AM
 #1409

BECAUSE BFL MISGUIDED ALMOST THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY TO PRE-ORDER FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SHIP.
"misguided" scammed
FTFY.

Now you're just being stupid. Missing multiple shipping dates does not imply a scam.
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December 26, 2012, 02:48:17 AM
 #1410

Now you're just being stupid. Missing multiple shipping dates does not imply a scam.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I don't believe they've "missed" multiple shipping dates at all...that would merely imply incompetence.

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December 26, 2012, 03:49:52 AM
 #1411

Now you're just being stupid. Missing multiple shipping dates does not imply a scam.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I don't believe they've "missed" multiple shipping dates at all...that would merely imply incompetence.


Actually, they've missed shipping dates due to problems that didn't show up in simulation.   Everything else has been in place, provided that the first version of ASICs worked as they should have.   While this is regrettable, and has caused BFL to miss shipping dates, the re-do of this chip should be a real bargain for anyone who would wants a superior product.  BFL seems to be taking extra caution in the re-working of the asic, as well as checking the boards for any potential issues that could come up.

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nathanrees19
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December 26, 2012, 03:56:35 AM
 #1412

I don't believe they've "missed" multiple shipping dates at all...that would merely imply incompetence.

What evidence do you have for this belief?
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December 26, 2012, 04:28:47 AM
 #1413

BECAUSE BFL MISGUIDED ALMOST THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY TO PRE-ORDER FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SHIP.

No, the "misguided" ones are those who thought a relatively new company would meet their first shipping estimate on their first ASIC product.

I know, silly me for believing what BFL told me.

I didn't care when they missed their first shipping date.
I didn't care when they missed their second shipping date.
I got a refund after they missed their third shipping date.
Now I don't care even if they ever ship a product at all.

I just stick around this thread for purely entertainment value... it is like a soap opera, everyone's always so serious. I pop in here and post something to get the other BFL haters going and then eagerly await the blow up reply from Inaba in response to the diatribe. I've got it down to a science.  Grin

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December 26, 2012, 04:59:54 AM
 #1414

BECAUSE BFL MISGUIDED ALMOST THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY TO PRE-ORDER FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SHIP.

No, the "misguided" ones are those who thought a relatively new company would meet their first shipping estimate on their first ASIC product.

I know, silly me for believing what BFL told me.

I didn't care when they missed their first shipping date.
I didn't care when they missed their second shipping date.
I got a refund after they missed their third shipping date.
Now I don't care even if they ever ship a product at all.

I just stick around this thread for purely entertainment value... it is like a soap opera, everyone's always so serious. I pop in here and post something to get the other BFL haters going and then eagerly await the blow up reply from Inaba in response to the diatribe. I've got it down to a science.  Grin

To not disappoint CoinHunter and to be creative and present something new for Josh:

Minimum wage in Kansas and Missouri is $7.25/hr. Based on that, let's to a little math.

7.25/hr X 40 hours X 26 weeks X 22 employees = $165,880

The $165,880 figure does not include the recent hire of experts to run the new equipment BFL is not planning on using for a while.

Add 7.65% of that sum for FICA. Roughly $12,690, for a new total of $178,570, and we can easily call it $200,000. Double it to take into consideration all the other expenses to date, not counting the FAB. We are now looking at shelling out no less than $400,000, with no more than $100,000 from an unknown VC. If a VC did give more than a hundred grand, then I have to concede that Josh knows a moron when he sees one.

Here's my question. Is it possible that BFL profited $300K from product actually delivered? If they did, fine. But how is the FAB being paid without touching pre-order monies? Think about it!

And somebody else ask him to see BFL's bank statement, for I don't want to be chastised for doing such.

Feel free to figure your own best and worse case scenarios as to what came in and what went out. See if you can safely say that no pre-order funds have been touched, and if the company goes under, they will be able to refund every cent in a timely manner without having to go into liquidation, thus having everybody wait for a full refund.

I'm now on record in stating that it can't be done without tapping pre-order funds.

Full disclosure: I once grossed over a million dollars three years running as a drywall contractor. This year I will gross just under a mil as a supplier of 100+ year old musty smelling rotten barn wood. I guess that makes me a failure, but I'll try harder next year (to gross a mil, not be a failure--disclaimer provided to not cause Josh to ponder what I Ming mean).

~Bruno K~
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December 26, 2012, 05:02:28 AM
 #1415

I don't believe they've "missed" multiple shipping dates at all...that would merely imply incompetence.

What evidence do you have for this belief?

None, why would I require evidence to formulate an opinion? Did you expect me to break into BFL's office to obtain secret information that they knew they were unprepared to ship long before they announced as much?  

When someone says to me they'll do this or that and they fail to deliver, I consider their credibility to be diminished. If they say they will do this or that a second and third time and fail to deliver again and again then I tend to consider them incompetent or dishonest. In this particular case BFL has not only failed to deliver multiple times but has released conflicting descriptions of the causes of those failures and pinned the blame on an unnamed entity(the evil fab). Yet BFL chose that fab, their customers did not, again this is either incompetence or dishonesty. The same company that couldn't seem to get their shipping dates or power consumption specs right on their FPGA products is now experiencing multiple unexpected delays with their ASIC products after reassuring customers that this would not happen this time. To say BFL reps lack credibility at this juncture is a jumbo understatement.

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December 26, 2012, 05:12:57 AM
 #1416

I don't believe they've "missed" multiple shipping dates at all...that would merely imply incompetence.

What evidence do you have for this belief?

None, why would I require evidence to formulate an opinion?

lol
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December 26, 2012, 05:17:36 AM
 #1417

@ CreativeX

Do you believe this thread to be unique?

Take a look at this in Josh's own playground:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/569-wafers-timelines-transparency.html

-------------------

His eagerness to call us trolls might slip one day when he calls his own customers trolls for asking virtually the same. (minus the warehouse topic)

(actually I recall he has already called his own customers trolls or trollish quite a few times already)

Does the BFL rep really enjoy spending his time this way? I think he is just trying to put out the fire with thee most futile of attempts.


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December 26, 2012, 05:21:35 AM
 #1418

I don't believe they've "missed" multiple shipping dates at all...that would merely imply incompetence.

What evidence do you have for this belief?

None, why would I require evidence to formulate an opinion?

lol

HAHAHA you caught that too, did you?  I think we have just found out why CreativeX is so irrational.  I think that might be my new signature.

PG - if you run such a successful business why don't you explain to everyone why your gross income is completely irrelevant.  You can gross even a billion dollars, but if your net is a buck (or more likely negative), you are a failure.  It's trivial to make a company gross a million dollars... just sell stuff or perform labor at cost or below cost.  Your gross income is meaningless, thanks for trying though. Drywall company and barn doors... heh.  High tech stuff there! You are certainly qualified to judge a tech company alright.





If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
creativex
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December 26, 2012, 05:23:23 AM
 #1419

@ CreativeX

Do you believe this thread to be unique?

Take a look at this in Josh's own playground:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/569-wafers-timelines-transparency.html

-------------------

His eagerness to call us trolls might slip one day when he calls his own customers trolls for asking virtually the same. (minus the warehouse topic)

(actually I recall he has already called his own customers trolls or trollish quite a few times already)

Does the BFL rep really enjoy spending his time this way? I think he is just trying to put out the fire with thee most futile of attempts.

Not at all, I just don't frequent BFL's boards save to click on the occasional link posted here.

I don't believe they've "missed" multiple shipping dates at all...that would merely imply incompetence.

What evidence do you have for this belief?

None, why would I require evidence to formulate an opinion?

lol

HAHAHA you caught that too, did you?  I think we have just found out why CreativeX is so irrational.  I think that might be my new signature.

Happy to entertain. Wink Perhaps you fellas have a different definition of the word "opinion" than I do?

o·pin·ion  [uh-pin-yuh n]
noun

1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

Synonyms

1. persuasion, notion, idea, impression. Opinion, sentiment, view are terms for one's conclusion about something. An opinion is a belief or judgment that falls short of absolute conviction, certainty, or positive knowledge; it is a conclusion that certain facts, ideas, etc., are probably true or likely to prove so: political opinions; an opinion about art; In my opinion this is true. Sentiment (usually pl.  ) refers to a rather fixed conviction, usually based on feeling or emotion rather than reasoning: These are my sentiments. View is an estimate of something, an intellectual judgment, a critical survey based on a mental examination, particularly of a public matter: views on governmental planning.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion?s=t

Others?

BitSyncom
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December 26, 2012, 05:51:53 AM
 #1420

BFL customers are like the women that get beat by their husband and stay with them because she loves him.   Roll Eyes

Unfortunately, the world as we know it is filled with greedy individuals, and businesses like BFL will stay afloat even though they are obviously incompetent and incapable of running a business properly. This is what really irks me... these incompetent business people, freaking liars (shipping in October November December January), will be getting the most business out of all ASIC manufacturers... something is seriously not right with the world.

And then Inaba has the nerve to say "Well, why don't you do it?" BECAUSE BFL MISGUIDED ALMOST THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY TO PRE-ORDER FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SHIP. It is a borderline scam (not surprising coming from Sonny's past) and at the very least unethical. You really think you have the most pre-orders because your product is so much better than the other manufacturers? Child please... It would be absolutely suicide to start an ASIC development with so many already preordered from other manufacturers.

I know!  BFL is so evil!  They are, *gasp* 2.5 months late to ship a product! The horror!  Oh the humanity!  Oh my god, how can things be so horrible!?

Shit, you mean I could have announced Avalon projected shipping date at Oct 2012 then announce several delays totaling 2.5 month and people would be OK with it? I should have learned from the best. *bows* I couldn't get on your level *sobs*.

Anyways, after disorienting your project timeline so many times, I don't even know when is BFL going to ship is anymore, are you still scheduled to ship in Mid-Jan of 2013? I'm sure many others are interested to know also.

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