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Author Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum  (Read 68171 times)
repentance
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January 21, 2013, 10:57:12 PM
 #2581

If BFL isnt using customers funds why did they not have an option to pay a small deposit instead of having to pay the entire price up front ?

Most likely because production was only worthwhile with a guaranteed level of orders and plenty of people won't think twice about losing a small deposit.  Small deposits aren't a great measure of how many people will follow through to complete the sale months later. Having stock sitting around in a warehouse waiting to be sold costs money, which is one reason why so many businesses operate on a "just in time" basis.

Also keep in mind that if 100% of pre-order funds are sitting in a quarantined bank account, interest is being earned on those funds.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't like the pre-order model which has been used by ASIC vendors but there are some reasons why it might be attractive to them.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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January 21, 2013, 11:12:27 PM
 #2582

100,000,000 Difficulty before Jan 1st, 2014?

Please pass whatever the hell you got off silkroad.

I would definitely say that if you are not planning to be profitable at diff 100m or greater, than you have no clue about what's coming.

Where the hell are we getting 730 TH of mining power?

Once initial pre-orders are shipped out, purchasing will continue until profitability calculators are no longer "gold rush" 6-8mo. What happens then? ASIC manufacturers lower their prices because they have a shit ton of chips, PCBs, etc laying around doing nothing.

Avalon add's 30, BFL has 55-75 (preordered), Basic has Huh in march (iffy), drop 20 from GPU miners exiting the scene or going to Litecoin.

If Avalon's website is any clue, they will soon have the capacity to start delivering 30Th per week.....

++

Totally Agree...

(On the proven delivery of ASIC from BFL)

Now production can start in earnest  and these chips will be flying out of the factory

12 months 2000 T/Hash who knows...the market will find a point which will be basically the same as it is now ~8-12% return  pm after power costs as it is now.

So do a reverse engineering price calc and that will be the HASH rate 

So thats the market potential based upon current BTC price & power costs..but hey before the market corrects itself live in a land of milk and honey...Cheesy

If BFL dont deliver AVALON has the ability to manipulate the market and drip feed the product out @ high $$

So its now end game for BFL and all of their current failures...the market will not accept any more BS as there is a real player in the market

GAME ON

OBJECT NOT FOUND
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January 21, 2013, 11:12:59 PM
 #2583

I never said we wouldn't hit 100m Difficulty... just not in a 10 month time frame.

Also, I definitely plan on being profitable, isn't that the name of the game?

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January 21, 2013, 11:36:01 PM
 #2584

If BFL isnt using customers funds why did they not have an option to pay a small deposit instead of having to pay the entire price up front ?



BFL did not use customer funds  ....i loled & i loled

Lets strike that bullshit down where ever it trys to raise its head...(You must live on the banks of a river in Egypt )

Avalon used peoples funds ?? ...... of course they did

Once again the easiest way to make somebody part with $$ is to make u think that u dont need it...its either (PR\MARKETING 101) or (TRIED & FAILED using your $$ 101) we will see

OBJECT NOT FOUND
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January 21, 2013, 11:40:50 PM
 #2585

If BFL isnt using customers funds why did they not have an option to pay a small deposit instead of having to pay the entire price up front ?



BFL did not use customer funds   ....i loled & i loled

Lets strike that bullshit down where ever it trys to raise its head.....(You must live on the banks of a river in Egypt )

Avalon used peoples funds ?? ...... of course they did

Once again the easiest way to make somebody part with $$ is to make u think that u dont need it...its either PR\MARKETING 101 or CON 101 we will see

...but they didn't need it. Vleisides still had the ill gotten gains from his lottery scam.

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January 21, 2013, 11:46:10 PM
 #2586

we'd probably see a 800Th network at some point over the next year. If the manufacturers slash pricing in half, we could easily see a doubling of the hashrate to 1.6Exh simply because the break even calculations have to be adjusted.

Following tera is peta, so you actually mean 1.6Ph, right?

It isn't his job to know that. His job is PROFIT. That is all.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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January 21, 2013, 11:49:28 PM
 #2587

If BFL isnt using customers funds why did they not have an option to pay a small deposit instead of having to pay the entire price up front ?



BFL did not use customer funds   ....i loled & i loled

Lets strike that bullshit down where ever it trys to raise its head.....(You must live on the banks of a river in Egypt )

Avalon used peoples funds ?? ...... of course they did

Once again the easiest way to make somebody part with $$ is to make u think that u dont need it...its either PR\MARKETING 101 or CON 101 we will see

...but they didn't need it. Vleisides still had the ill gotten gains from his lottery scam.

This made me LOL.

OMG...this is the land of scams and it is a GOOD thing to get scammed right? Damn we have a ton of idiots in this community.

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January 22, 2013, 12:09:38 AM
 #2588

there's roughly 40,000 workers (+/- 5,000) currently mining

Speaking of math, where is this number from? Source?

Sorry about that, meant to edit the post before when I got my link.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxnW49twNMNbZWRnSHJ2SzdyMnc/edit

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January 22, 2013, 01:44:08 AM
 #2589

there's roughly 40,000 workers (+/- 5,000) currently mining

Speaking of math, where is this number from? Source?

Sorry about that, meant to edit the post before when I got my link.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxnW49twNMNbZWRnSHJ2SzdyMnc/edit

WOW!
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January 22, 2013, 01:57:29 AM
 #2590

there's roughly 40,000 workers (+/- 5,000) currently mining

Speaking of math, where is this number from? Source?

Sorry about that, meant to edit the post before when I got my link.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxnW49twNMNbZWRnSHJ2SzdyMnc/edit

Hey Korbman, I do like your work - but any chance of using http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/  for your data? The averages are over the last 2016 blocks so it's a bit more accurate.

Also, where do you pull the data for the workers?

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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January 22, 2013, 03:21:05 AM
 #2591

Hey Korbman, I do like your work - but any chance of using http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/  for your data? The averages are over the last 2016 blocks so it's a bit more accurate.

Also, where do you pull the data for the workers?

I will definitely use http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/ next time...it does seem to be a bit more accurate, which will surely have an effect on overall stats.

As for workers, it's a pain in the ass to figure out.
For some pools, like deepbit or 50btc where they have a list of all the pools teams (containing all workers and hashing rates), it's pretty easy. I copy all of the data on workers/teams I can find into Excel. If it copies correctly, I can get a full table of all users, hash rates, etc...then I can clear the formatting and use the normal Excel functions to grab sums, averages, and the like. Pulling 7,000+ workers of data out of deepbit's tables, for example, isn't so hard after that.

For other pools, like BTCGuild, where they barely report anything other than "leaderboard" based hash rates, it's super hard to figure out accurate worker counts.

Overall, I try to use the accurate data displayed by the reliable pools to figure out what percentage of workers contribute the most to the hashrate...and then apply an average percentage to pools that don't give out precise information. Really it all comes down to an educated guess at best, but it's still better than assuming. Though nothing compared to your phenomenal work Organofcorti Smiley


Thanks for the kind words guys, I appreciate it. If anyone finds an easier way to pull data from some of the pools, let me know! Always happy to update my paper again Tongue

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January 22, 2013, 04:39:12 AM
 #2592

there's roughly 40,000 workers (+/- 5,000) currently mining

Speaking of math, where is this number from? Source?

Sorry about that, meant to edit the post before when I got my link.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxnW49twNMNbZWRnSHJ2SzdyMnc/edit

WOW!

So, the largest computer processor--Bitcoin--is about to get twelve times larger. And to think we don't need to build a moat around it.
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January 22, 2013, 11:13:16 AM
 #2593

Why do so many quote BFL's power "spec" as a firm number? BFL was WAY off on their last product's power specs, they do not have chips, and wasn't it their rep that was backpedaling on power consumption estimates just recently? Their power "spec" is a guess and likely a wild ass overly optimistic guess at that, just like their shipping dates.  

65nm designs almost always outperform 90nm and especially 110nm designs by a wide margin. Their ASIC designers would have to be unusually stupid in order to fail to produce chips with higher GH/J than all of the current competitors. FPGA power estimates are arguably easier to screw up, especially if you're working with an unusual FPGA.

To be a success after the difficulty rises, it doesn't have to be a "firm number". It just has to win.
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January 22, 2013, 11:18:47 AM
 #2594

Inaba runs out of money https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137923
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January 22, 2013, 06:08:41 PM
 #2595


Look! We can put boxes into boxes. More evidence that our ASICS are real:








We can even prove the existence of God!




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January 22, 2013, 06:12:03 PM
 #2596


Time for funny story on cooling, BFL said something like we'd run into similiar problems like them knowing our design is completely different, e.g. rolled vs pipeline, we chuckled; since we are ahead, I'll say the same, I think BFL is going to run into some problems we ran into as well.

Anyways, cooling was the exact opposite, our units cool so well, we removed two fans. ZING.

Josh,

What do you think of the mammoth case Avalon just released pics of?  Do you think the PCB takes up the entire footprint?  Did they do this to spread the ASIC chips apart because of heat?  Just curious.

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January 22, 2013, 06:16:06 PM
 #2597

Why do so many quote BFL's power "spec" as a firm number? BFL was WAY off on their last product's power specs, they do not have chips, and wasn't it their rep that was backpedaling on power consumption estimates just recently? Their power "spec" is a guess and likely a wild ass overly optimistic guess at that, just like their shipping dates.  

65nm designs almost always outperform 90nm and especially 110nm designs by a wide margin. Their ASIC designers would have to be unusually stupid in order to fail to produce chips with higher GH/J than all of the current competitors. FPGA power estimates are arguably easier to screw up, especially if you're working with an unusual FPGA.

To be a success after the difficulty rises, it doesn't have to be a "firm number". It just has to win.

Doesn't even begin to address the question. Everybody knows smaller die size = generally lower power consumption and better profitability for a chip maker. The problem is that BFL spits out this 1w/Gh number and people quote it like it's gospel. It's not even a power range as would have been prudent for BFL to release as they clearly do not know what the final power consumption spec will be. A jalepeno is very unlikely to have the same power consumption profile as a minirig SC, but they're the same according to BFL and people eat it up.

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January 22, 2013, 06:19:58 PM
 #2598

It's cute the way BFL designs their products & packages to make them all pretty. I think that they think they are releasing the new iPad or iPod.

News flash: No one cares what this stuff looks like, just as long as it works. The Avalon is uglier than shit, but at least they're shipping.

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January 22, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
 #2599


Time for funny story on cooling, BFL said something like we'd run into similiar problems like them knowing our design is completely different, e.g. rolled vs pipeline, we chuckled; since we are ahead, I'll say the same, I think BFL is going to run into some problems we ran into as well.

Anyways, cooling was the exact opposite, our units cool so well, we removed two fans. ZING.

Josh,

What do you think of the mammoth case Avalon just released pics of?  Do you think the PCB takes up the entire footprint?  Did they do this to spread the ASIC chips apart because of heat?  Just curious.
I bet it's both... they use a lot of chips for each miner because of the 110nm process, which probably results in a largish PCB, and 400w is a lot of heat to dissipate out of a closed box.
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January 22, 2013, 06:27:13 PM
 #2600

400w is a lot of heat to dissipate out of a closed box.

No, it's not. Lots of servers draw 400w in a 1U case. 4U cases can handle well over 1000w, easily.

Buy & Hold
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