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Author Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum  (Read 68032 times)
BCMan
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June 16, 2012, 09:11:20 AM
 #81

Now back to some thought on the reality of BTC.

On average 7,200 BTC is generated every day (that wont change ... until it halves)

At $6 that's $43,200 a day.

for 6 months, that's $7.9Mil

Now I don't know what anyone else thinks, but that's not a lot of money ... but that is the total at the current price that EVERYONE will get.
Yet I wonder how much people will be investing in these many different ASIC options ...

Remember 3 things:
1) Your investment now may be overshadowed by hardware in 6 months
2) In 6 months (well actually a bit less) BTC per block will halve
3) The easiest way to kill ASIC is to have to change the double sha256 due to some problem found with it ........ Cheesy
Totally agree.
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June 16, 2012, 09:12:58 AM
 #82

You'd be nuts not to. Have you calculated what your singles or mini rigs will earn you once difficulty reaches 10 or 100 million ?

It doesn't matter to me. Sending them back cost me more than what their entry products cost. For me Bitcoin was never about making a big profit. It's the idea I support. My dayjob pays me enough for a nice life here.

BCMan
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June 16, 2012, 09:13:30 AM
 #83

Now back to some thought on the reality of BTC.

On average 7,200 BTC is generated every day (that wont change ... until it halves)

At $6 that's $43,200 a day.

for 6 months, that's $7.9Mil

Now I don't know what anyone else thinks, but that's not a lot of money ... but that is the total at the current price that EVERYONE will get.
Yet I wonder how much people will be investing in these many different ASIC options ...

Remember 3 things:
1) Your investment now may be overshadowed by hardware in 6 months
2) In 6 months (well actually a bit less) BTC per block will halve
3) The easiest way to kill ASIC is to have to change the double sha256 due to some problem found with it ........ Cheesy

Is the choice of sha256 likely to change? Is it even possible and still continue with the current blockchain?
Time will tell, but its possible.
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June 16, 2012, 09:14:36 AM
 #84

Now back to some thought on the reality of BTC.

On average 7,200 BTC is generated every day (that wont change ... until it halves)

At $6 that's $43,200 a day.

for 6 months, that's $7.9Mil

Now I don't know what anyone else thinks, but that's not a lot of money ... but that is the total at the current price that EVERYONE will get.
Yet I wonder how much people will be investing in these many different ASIC options ...

Remember 3 things:
1) Your investment now may be overshadowed by hardware in 6 months
2) In 6 months (well actually a bit less) BTC per block will halve
3) The easiest way to kill ASIC is to have to change the double sha256 due to some problem found with it ........ Cheesy

is there really a need for such performance right now? maybe in 2 years, or when the block reward strikes again to 12,5  with a bigger economy and lots of tnxs going on.
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June 16, 2012, 09:22:47 AM
 #85

It doesn't matter to me. Sending them back cost me more than what their entry products cost.

But as I understand it, you wouldnt get the entry product, but the price equivalent of what you have now. IOW, if you would send in two FPGA singles you should get ~1 SC single @40GH. I dont see why you wouldnt take a (nearly) free ~25 fold increase in hashrate. It may be a band-aid on a wooden leg, but better than nothing and Id be surprised if it wouldnt at least cover shipping fees.



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June 16, 2012, 09:23:19 AM
 #86

Who wants to create a fund to short AMD on the stock exchange ?

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June 16, 2012, 09:25:07 AM
 #87

If they can really ship this it will have drastic effects on the economy as a whole, I wonder what the bitcoin landscape will look like in a year.


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June 16, 2012, 09:29:16 AM
 #88

It doesn't matter to me. Sending them back cost me more than what their entry products cost.

But as I understand it, you wouldnt get the entry product, but the price equivalent of what you have now. IOW, if you would send in two FPGA singles you should get ~1 SC single @40GH. I dont see why you wouldnt take a (nearly) free ~25 fold increase in hashrate. It may be a band-aid on a wooden leg, but better than nothing and Id be surprised if it wouldnt at least cover shipping fees.


It's too early to be worried about for me. Let's wait and see Wink

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June 16, 2012, 09:32:42 AM
 #89

Who wants to create a fund to short AMD on the stock exchange ?

AMD isnt going to be impacted. The entire bitcoin network consists of like ~20-30K AMD cards, most of them obsolete. AMD sells millions of cards each year, the overall AIB market is ~50 million cards per year. Granted, only a small % of those are highend cards, but this is still not something thats going to impact amd in any meaningful way.

I still want to short them though, but for completely different reasons.

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June 16, 2012, 09:56:23 AM
 #90

This "returning your fpga Single for a refund" crap is just an excuse to fill out remaining single preorders Wink

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June 16, 2012, 09:56:51 AM
 #91

Damn it ! I almost crapped my pants when I read the announcement. No more mining for me after block reward halves. Sorry folks.

Now for some FUNZ :

The smartest move would be to buy shares in BFL  Cheesy


Same idea I had. Why not start a mining bond and pwn all the noobs like GIGAMINING ?

I'm torn between the fact that it's on a legitimate news site

Here's another interesting release on the same legitimate news sites:

  http://news.yahoo.com/leading-sha256-hardware-manufacturer-acquires-venture-capital-funding-081026668.html

  http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/6/prweb9611938.htm

LOVE seeing butthurt FPGA developers crying. I always said it : FPGA is a joke for mining. Even if you pay it off it is worth $0 afterwards so you barely even break even.

As I am something of veteran of press releases I will make a few observations that are odd for press releases.

The first is there is no expected date for products. It's usual to give customers some expectational of when it might be available.

The next observation is it doesn't even give the full name of who released it and even quoted in it. Again something that is normal to do.

Thirdly when VCs are involved it is usual to release who they are and how much they put in.

Now you might also say that I am being self centred on our business interests or even paranoid but the pricing they claim is probably unsustainable even in full ASIC. I could also be wrong about the market size and it might be sustainable. Now you might read think they are doing this to destroy competition and they probably will if their claimed prices and performance are achieved in a reasonable timescale. After the competition is destroyed well prices might then go up an awful lot. That's on the few reasons I can see that they would price this way. Even if they could make them cheap why sell them cheap. They could sell at the same price as us and still win big time and achieve the same.

A more paranoid reason might be a backdoor way to destroy the Bitcoin. I am sure that there are many governmental organisations that might what to achieve this. So being a VC with a relatively cheap investment of maybe a few million dollars would achieve this. It would reveal incomes of tax value much higher than investment andthere are plenty of other reasons as well for them to do that. Of course if it went wrong it's just a private company that did this.

Yohan

Same thing. Love seeing them getting shafted and coming here whining like a child.

FPGA manufacturers crying their useless junk is dying out. Go sell some for financial analysis and Monte Carlo Tongue

well.. its only an announcment of how likely its going to cost and how much gh's its gonna give...
maybe in the end its going to be something completely different...

because 3.5gh for hundred bucks is a stupid thing to do...

or maybe what they want to do, is that everybody who mined on gpus.. and didnt want to do anything with bfl's... will have to go their way... or just quit this btc business...

For the record if this happens ( and it will, simply because people are stupid ) I will never buy a FPGA or ASIC simply because it is not profitable in any way if you take the time to think about it properly. I will quit mining. GPU or nothing for me. FPGA / ASIC is too much risk. Better buy BTC outright if you have faith but I don't. Most will lose money on this like P4man rightly said. Love seeing fools get robbed. I bet gigavps will be rushing to BFL : "take my $$$ now !!!"

I just can not believe this. GPUs are useless, FPGAs are useless before they give me positive ROI.

All the money invested in mining HW will go to BFL. This is a dangerous situation.

I always said FPGA is useless for anything. Good to see you getting shafted with your lovely SPARTANS !!!

In the end, I think this is a setup / framed situation to take BTC out by the government using stupid miners but what do I know ... I bet these chips have some remote 51% switch once they all shipped out and warming my bottom.
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June 16, 2012, 10:03:57 AM
 #92

Who wants to create a fund to short AMD on the stock exchange ?

AMD isnt going to be impacted. The entire bitcoin network consists of like ~20-30K AMD cards, most of them obsolete. AMD sells millions of cards each year, the overall AIB market is ~50 million cards per year. Granted, only a small % of those are highend cards, but this is still not something thats going to impact amd in any meaningful way.

I still want to short them though, but for completely different reasons.


Kind of not true .... Missusing AMDs cards for mining is just a small percentage (if so) of AMDs profits. Main profitable region is desktop market and then gaming.



€: sry didn't read what u wrote Smiley

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June 16, 2012, 10:17:22 AM
 #93

Exciting times lay ahead of us.

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June 16, 2012, 10:34:54 AM
 #94

Quote
3)    BitForce SC Mini Rig: a case & rack mount server providing 1 TH/s, priced at $29,899
If BFL made just one of these, they could earn $40k per week as 1/15th of the current network, so why sell them?

Something's not right with these equations unless the profit margins are ridiculously large...

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June 16, 2012, 10:43:35 AM
 #95

Just wait that AMD will add that "usb warmer" chip into newest GPUs Smiley

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June 16, 2012, 10:44:09 AM
 #96

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3)    BitForce SC Mini Rig: a case & rack mount server providing 1 TH/s, priced at $29,899
If BFL made just one of these, they could earn $40k per week as 1//15th of the current network, so why sell them?

Something's not right with these equations unless the profit margins are ridiculously large...

I have a same feeling...
As P4man have researched at 130nm is possible to achieve 395MH/W. They saying somwhere around 1500MH/W. So, what process they use? 40nm ? I doubt it. You have to order very large quantity in some fab before they even consider to produce them. It's huge demand on that.
I think that they underestimated power consumption. AGAIN...

And that price... I can understand to be competitive to competition. But killing own products? That should be priced at 1999$ for smallest miner.

Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
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June 16, 2012, 10:50:37 AM
 #97

Exciting and frightening all at once  Cheesy Grin Angry Huh

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June 16, 2012, 10:51:42 AM
 #98

Just wait that AMD will add that "usb warmer" chip into newest GPUs Smiley
Not really, as AMD really don't care about mining since it's only a tiny proportion of their sales. If they cared they could produce a product that would blow everyone out of the water, as could intel or nvidia. Bitcoin mining doesn't even register on their radar.

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June 16, 2012, 10:53:51 AM
 #99

Quote
3)    BitForce SC Mini Rig: a case & rack mount server providing 1 TH/s, priced at $29,899
If BFL made just one of these, they could earn $40k per week as 1/15th of the current network, so why sell them?

Something's not right with these equations unless the profit margins are ridiculously large...


Well.. thats not completely correct... i think they do mine, but there is no point in incresing the difficulty for them!
So its much more profitable to sell hundred of those rigs, and when the difficulty rises again, people will buy even morefrom them..
so this way its much more profitable...

Komuto budet Herovato is definitely the chief engineer of bfl)
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June 16, 2012, 10:57:57 AM
 #100

I'd take this with a grain of salt right now. The electricity efficiencies are insane. The prices make absolutely no sense. For all we know, BFL forum account could have been hijacked and the press release forged. I'm not going to believe any of this until there is real data and real products.

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