[Archive] BFL trolling museum

[BR0KK]

This ASIC circus is sooooo entertaining

Maybe they are long gone by now but their always so defending "not pr guy" does not know about that yet? 

Seriously... Is there any actual info aviable about their (or any) ASICs besides all that nonsense? 

[1713922666]

1713922666

[organofcorti]

the parallel universe where BFL ASICs exist - alive.

You'd have to be pretty delusional to think they don't exist at this point.

You'd also have to be delusional to think they are alive. So I'm thinking he was using hyperbole.

Edit: I'm not on any side here, but if I was I'd lean toward BFL fulfilling orders at some point.

[Frizz23]

You'd have to be pretty delusional to think they don't exist at this point.

I am sure they don't exist at this point. If they would exist,
a) BFL would have proudly shown the world a working prototype.
b) Yochdog and Kano would have visited BFL to inspect their ASICs - and testify: "Yes, they are real".
c) the forums would be full with posts like "Haha - told you so, sucker!".

I mean, if it was a scam, BFL would most likely have mysteriously disappeared by now, along with all the pre-order cash/coins.

I don't know if it's a scam - or not, if BFL will deliver one day - or not. Time will tell ...

[Phinnaeus Gage]

You got me! The page looks real, so I went hunting YT to view the video. Couldn't find it, so I took a second look at the image, then realized my error--view count.

[nathanrees19]

I am sure they don't exist at this point. If they would exist,
a) BFL would have proudly shown the world a working prototype.

You're confusing "existence" with "products ready to ship". A baby exists for many months before it is born.

[nathanrees19]

You'd also have to be delusional to think they are alive.

Clearly.

Still, I don't understand why people conflate "incomplete" with "nonexistent". What strange dichotomous worlds some people must live in.

[organofcorti]

You'd also have to be delusional to think they are alive.

Clearly.

Still, I don't understand why people conflate "incomplete" with "nonexistent". What strange dichotomous worlds some people must live in.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "does not yet exist with respect to the bitcoin network". If no hashing for the network has been done by a BFL ASIC, then from the networks point of view they do not exist even if complete.

[punin]

The sadness here is how they've led our community astray just to achieve a monopoly in "gold pan" business. Hopefully many remember what happened in Klondike, and how profits were distributed between miners vs mining supplies salesmen.

[rav3n_pl]

The sadness here is how they've led our community astray just to achieve a monopoly in "gold pan" business. Hopefully many remember what happened in Klondike, and how profits were distributed between miners vs mining supplies salesmen.

BTC RUSH!

[SgtSpike]

You'd also have to be delusional to think they are alive.

Clearly.

Still, I don't understand why people conflate "incomplete" with "nonexistent". What strange dichotomous worlds some people must live in.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "does not yet exist with respect to the bitcoin network". If no hashing for the network has been done by a BFL ASIC, then from the networks point of view they do not exist even if complete.

Uh, no...

Existence of an item or product does not depend on the use of that item or product.  If a car is sitting on a dealer's lot, do you say it does not exist yet because it has not been driven?

[creativex]

You'd also have to be delusional to think they are alive.

Clearly.

Still, I don't understand why people conflate "incomplete" with "nonexistent". What strange dichotomous worlds some people must live in.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "does not yet exist with respect to the bitcoin network". If no hashing for the network has been done by a BFL ASIC, then from the networks point of view they do not exist even if complete.

Uh, no...

Existence of an item or product does not depend on the use of that item or product.  If a car is sitting on a dealer's lot, do you say it does not exist yet because it has not been driven?

I would not, but the car on the lot in your example has been completely assembled and has all working parts (theorectically) in place and in proper working order.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

You'd also have to be delusional to think they are alive.

Clearly.

Still, I don't understand why people conflate "incomplete" with "nonexistent". What strange dichotomous worlds some people must live in.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "does not yet exist with respect to the bitcoin network". If no hashing for the network has been done by a BFL ASIC, then from the networks point of view they do not exist even if complete.

Uh, no...

Existence of an item or product does not depend on the use of that item or product.  If a car is sitting on a dealer's lot, do you say it does not exist yet because it has not been driven?

I would not, but the car on the lot in your example has been completely assembled and has all working parts (theorectically) in place and in proper working order.

[SgtSpike]

You'd also have to be delusional to think they are alive.

Clearly.

Still, I don't understand why people conflate "incomplete" with "nonexistent". What strange dichotomous worlds some people must live in.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "does not yet exist with respect to the bitcoin network". If no hashing for the network has been done by a BFL ASIC, then from the networks point of view they do not exist even if complete.

Uh, no...

Existence of an item or product does not depend on the use of that item or product.  If a car is sitting on a dealer's lot, do you say it does not exist yet because it has not been driven?

I would not, but the car on the lot in your example has been completely assembled and has all working parts (theorectically) in place and in proper working order.

So if the car doesn't start when you put the key in and turn it, do you no longer call it a car?  If someone has removed the battery, it's no longer a car?

@Phinnaeus - I think we can all agree that the Yugo was something other than a car. 

[Frizz23]

I am sure they don't exist at this point. If they would exist,
a) BFL would have proudly shown the world a working prototype.

You're confusing "existence" with "products ready to ship".

Does the atomic car exist only because there are some rumors and renderings?

A baby exists for many months before it is born.

Oh please god, no. Now this whole thing gets religious!

Christians may share your opinion. Other might not ...

[creativex]

So if the car doesn't start when you put the key in and turn it, do you no longer call it a car?  If someone has removed the battery, it's no longer a car?

Nope, I'd still call it a car. Though I may amend that and call it a...crappy car.

Is a BFL Single SC a Single SC without ASIC chips? Is a car a car if it has no motor?

[crazyates]

Does the atomic car exist only because there are some rumors and renderings?

Rumors? If Toyota claims to have developed an atomic car, revealed concepts at autoshows, reveals exact drawings and recreations, and lists pricing and technical information, can you still call it little more than a rumor?

No. So if BFL has done all of this for their SC Single, you can't call it a rumor. It's an unreleased product.

[SgtSpike]

So if the car doesn't start when you put the key in and turn it, do you no longer call it a car?  If someone has removed the battery, it's no longer a car?

Nope, I'd still call it a car. Though I may amend that and call it a...crappy car.

Is a BFL Single SC a Single SC without ASIC chips? Is a car a car if it has no motor?

I'd say a car can still be a car without a motor, though a more accurate description might be "self propelled vehicle".

I'm not trying to claim that BFL ASICS do, in fact, exist.  I am simply trying to dispell the belief that an ASIC must have hashed on the main network before it exists.  That's just bad logic.  It obviously exists moments before it hashes on the main network.

[Frizz23]

Does the atomic car exist only because there are some rumors and renderings?

Rumors? If Toyota claims to have developed an atomic car, revealed concepts at autoshows, reveals exact drawings and recreations, and lists pricing and technical information, can you still call it little more than a rumor?

If Toyota had the same crappy reputation as BFL I would strongly doubt they can develop an atomic car.

From the things you mentioned BFL has only revealed the pricing.
No concepts,  no exact drawings, no technical information (and no - "it's in 65nm" and "it's about about 1Watt/Gh" and "unicorn blood" is no exact technical information).

If you want to know how this information could look like please take a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120184.msg1381739#msg1381739

[organofcorti]

So if the car doesn't start when you put the key in and turn it, do you no longer call it a car?  If someone has removed the battery, it's no longer a car?

Nope, I'd still call it a car. Though I may amend that and call it a...crappy car.

Is a BFL Single SC a Single SC without ASIC chips? Is a car a car if it has no motor?

I'd say a car can still be a car without a motor, though a more accurate description might be "self propelled vehicle".

I'm not trying to claim that BFL ASICS do, in fact, exist.  I am simply trying to dispell the belief that an ASIC must have hashed on the main network before it exists.  That's just bad logic.  It obviously exists moments before it hashes on the main network.

Hmmm. I'd like a definition of "moments". What length of time is a "moment"? If it's further divisible by any amount, could the hashing device have not existed only in that shorter time frame? The length of a moment becomes a moving target which, at it's limit, equals zero. So an  an object simply cannot exist (with respect to the network ) for any appreciable time before it hashes. From the perspective of the network, ASIC hashing devices are simply spontaneously generated.

I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this thread is too narrow to contain.

[crazyates]

Does the atomic car exist only because there are some rumors and renderings?

Rumors? If Toyota claims to have developed an atomic car, revealed concepts at autoshows, reveals exact drawings and recreations, and lists pricing and technical information, can you still call it little more than a rumor?

If Toyota had the same crappy reputation as BFL I would strongly doubt they can develop an atomic car.

From the things you mentioned BFL has only revealed the pricing.
No concepts,  no exact drawings, no technical information (and no - "it's in 65nm" and "it's about about 1Watt/Gh" and "unicorn blood" is no exact technical information).

If you want to know how this information could look like please take a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120184.msg1381739#msg1381739

If Toyota had people like you dedicated to shitting all over their brand name, I'm sure their reputation would suffer as well.

Concepts: They have released renderings of their chip and the heatsink.
Exact drawings: They have released photos of both their assembled board AND the case(s) they will be in.
Technical information: They have given technical information, beyond just "65nm @ 1GH/W". Going by your reasoning, when Apple releases a new Macbook that "claims" to have wifi, but they don't release what chipset they are using, they must be lying to us!