[ANN][XEL] Elastic Project - The Decentralized Supercomputer

[coralreefer]

Hi Lannister, glad to hear you are still around, but sorry to hear about any health issues.  There's nothing crypto related that's worth jeopardizing your health over, so hope you get better soon.  And, yes my BTC address is still current.

[ttookk]

Isn't that what the donated BTC are for?

I'm not sure what the plan is for the BTC, but it doesn't appear to be for dev bounties.  I spent 2 months working on my miner for XEL and have tried to contact Lannister for several weeks asking about a bounties for the miner with no response.  Not really much incentive to keep working on it at this point.

I was under the impression, that bounties were supposed to be paid out once the mainnet launched. But I think paying at least small bits while in progress may be a good way to keep those working on it motivated

[coralreefer]

Hi EK,

Just wanted to touch base on a couple open items as you wrap up your latest changes:

1) I added WCET to my miner, so I don't think its necessary to include this in the response message anymore unless you want to make it available to other miners.  But to your earlier point, different miners will get different WCET based on hardware, etc.

2) You may want to change the order of the private int stream from Multiplicator,PK,WorkID,BlockID to PK,WorkID,BlockID,Multiplicator.  This may allow a bit more optimization of the private int stream logic to speed things up.

3) A reminder to enhance the response messages to indicate if no additonal POW or Bounties are being accepted.  Also, when I was testing my logic was failing because even though I had confirmed bounties (and could see them in the wallet) it wasn't until several minutes later that the work package reflected these...so my calcs were off.  I was expecting the work packages to reflect these changes immediately, but if not, let me know and I'll come up with a different approach.

4) If you know of any C implementations for the Elliptic Curve and Prime calcs that matches what you are using in Java please send a link so these can get wired in.

[klintay]

@ Lannister, hope you get well soon. Haven't been active as well but I am still lurking around.

[boltz]

This is going so well guys . I've been cathing up with the thread . Alot of good things !

[Ghoom]

XEL-YHEX-FZ3N-EVQ3-GTE2N

Thanks

[Ghoom]

Code:

Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Fetched 1 work package(s) from server, target = ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.
Retrieving work from server screwed up, most likely due to garbaged response.
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: You must provide a non-zero length input
	at elastic_miner.Ascii85.decode(Ascii85.java:89)
	at elastic_miner.Main.main(Main.java:266)
Fetched 1 work package(s) from server, target = ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.
Retrieving work from server screwed up, most likely due to garbaged response.
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: You must provide a non-zero length input
	at elastic_miner.Ascii85.decode(Ascii85.java:89)
	at elastic_miner.Main.main(Main.java:266)
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Fetched 1 work package(s) from server, target = ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.
Mining, Speed: 158k  evaluations / s ... submitted 0 POW solutions / 0 Bounties / 0 Bounties Pending (waiting approval)
Mining, Speed: 368k  evaluations / s ... submitted 0 POW solutions / 0 Bounties / 0 Bounties Pending (waiting approval)
Mining, Speed: 398k  evaluations / s ... submitted 0 POW solutions / 0 Bounties / 0 Bounties Pending (waiting approval)
Mining, Speed: 383k  evaluations / s ... submitted 0 POW solutions / 0 Bounties / 0 Bounties Pending (waiting approval)
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.
Server has no work at the moment, retrying in 15s.

[Mogul59]

how to make money?

[Limx Dev]

how to make money?

Read the ANN and Website please.

Elastic Project

http://www.elastic-project.com is a non-profit community driven website, created by and for the developers, other community members and those interested in this project, to surge information and helpful advice on everything related to Elastic.

The overall goals of the website are:

    To be the public face of the Elastic Project
    To be a useful resource to current Elastic Project users, testers and developers
    To be a place that those current users can point others to for info and updates


This thread is too long to read, and extracting every information is just too much to handle, so please explore the website to obtain supplemental information.

[.m.]

That is interesting experiment, but most of the people are money hungry and it may be difficult for non-profit community driven project to attract attention even if it is deserved.

[coralreefer]

Evil-Knievel, I added the sha256 algo back into the C miner to try to figure out the best approach now that we are compiling the ElasticPL into C.  Right now, my plan was to create a static crypto library that has the wrappers and algos.  It seems to complicate things a bit, but works fine.  If you get some time, can you take a look at what I've posted on my github to see if you have a better approach that you'd recommend.

The main issue I see is what you tried to address earlier, that there are numerous types of compilers / hardware that need to be accounted for.

[Evil-Knievel]

Evil-Knievel, I added the sha256 algo back into the C miner to try to figure out the best approach now that we are compiling the ElasticPL into C.  Right now, my plan was to create a static crypto library that has the wrappers and algos.  It seems to complicate things a bit, but works fine.  If you get some time, can you take a look at what I've posted on my github to see if you have a better approach that you'd recommend.

The main issue I see is what you tried to address earlier, that there are numerous types of compilers / hardware that need to be accounted for.

In my opinion there are two WCET's in existence: On the one hand the "roughly estimated" WCET that is done by the parser which is only there to limit the complexity of submitted programs to avoid some sorts of DOS attacks with "long running jobs".

On the other hand we have the real WCET which is of course different for each compiler / platform. This WCET is only useful for the miners to decide which job to work on ... probably some heuristic that includes POW rewards / bounty rewards and WCET would be the ideal, but I think this is no big issue to think about. I would suggest going with something simple and wait for the hardcore miners to optimize the heuristics over time ;-)

Of course, the proportions of the "guessed WCET" should be somewhat correct. So an EC point addition should have a WCET that is scaled properly to other more simple instructions. But again, I think we can accept it if it's not that precise. What just should be not possible is to do some crazy 1000000x loop with very costly EC operations to slow down the network.

Regarding the crypto library, I think openssl would be the easiest. It's well tested, supported on most platforms, and super fast.
Alternatively, this dude has come up with something nice using libgmp: https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/38508-simplified-ecc-variant-written-in-c/

I'll check out your code today ;-)

[boltz]

So many eyes on this project . I love it <3 .

[Evil-Knievel]

Evil-Knievel, I added the sha256 algo back into the C miner to try to figure out the best approach now that we are compiling the ElasticPL into C.  Right now, my plan was to create a static crypto library that has the wrappers and algos.  It seems to complicate things a bit, but works fine.  If you get some time, can you take a look at what I've posted on my github to see if you have a better approach that you'd recommend.

The main issue I see is what you tried to address earlier, that there are numerous types of compilers / hardware that need to be accounted for.

Please check out my answer on the page before.
Also, I have added a nice gimmick to your miner: no -k public key option is needed anymore as the public key is automatically derived from the passphrase! Check out the pull request.

[ttookk]

That is interesting experiment, but most of the people are money hungry and it may be difficult for non-profit community driven project to attract attention even if it is deserved.

Well I think "non-profit" is a little misleading. Crypto as a whole is about incentivizing people to contribute by paying them. Elastic is not different in that regard.

Where you are right is that there may be more people involved in Elastics development, if the bounty system would be clearer. E-K mentioned this before I think, and coralreefer as well. I agree with them; they are putting a lot of work into this project and no matter how much fun it is for them (I hope at least a little), their work should be honored in more than just words.

There should be some "hard goal" to work towards, i.e. If you find a working solution for problem X, you "win" Y BTC. The problem is, though, to identify these problems (I think in some regard, Elastic is still in such an early stage, that a lot of potential problems aren't even apparent, yet) and to qualify(is that the right word?) these problems, meaning, how much is the solution of problem X worth. There will be problems which need to be solved to make elastic viable at all, while others are more of a "performance enhancement" type.

The biggest problem, though, would be that someone would have to actually come up with a bounty system. E-K and coralreefer are working on the code and I think they shouldn't put too much time and energy in management. On the other hand, I for example am not technically apt enough to actually identify problems and gauge their "worth". Plus, people who work on Elastic and are potential bounty winners putting out the bounties themselves looks kinda sketchy, doesn't it.

I think as Lannister being the one holding the funds, this would be his job, or at least his job to find someone to do it, if he doesn't feel like he has the time and energy to do so.

@Lannister, please don't misunderstand me, this is not meant to be criticism, but as the one holding the funds there is no denying that you hold a unique position, that may come with certain responsibilities

[coralreefer]

Evil-Knievel, I added the sha256 algo back into the C miner to try to figure out the best approach now that we are compiling the ElasticPL into C.  Right now, my plan was to create a static crypto library that has the wrappers and algos.  It seems to complicate things a bit, but works fine.  If you get some time, can you take a look at what I've posted on my github to see if you have a better approach that you'd recommend.

The main issue I see is what you tried to address earlier, that there are numerous types of compilers / hardware that need to be accounted for.

Please check out my answer on the page before.
Also, I have added a nice gimmick to your miner: no -k public key option is needed anymore as the public key is automatically derived from the passphrase! Check out the pull request.

Thanks for the feedback EK.   I'm away from my dev computer for a few days so I'll look into it more this weekend.

[ImI]

That is interesting experiment, but most of the people are money hungry and it may be difficult for non-profit community driven project to attract attention even if it is deserved.

"non-profit"?

you are aware of that basically ALL cryptos are non-profit, apart from crap like ripple and onecoin and stuff like that?

or who "owns" BTC in your eyes? its CEO?  

there simply are no "for-profit" coins as nobody is interested in that stuff.

[Riseman]

That is interesting experiment, but most of the people are money hungry and it may be difficult for non-profit community driven project to attract attention even if it is deserved.

"non-profit"?

you are aware of that basically ALL cryptos are non-profit, apart from crap like ripple and onecoin and stuff like that?

or who "owns" BTC in your eyes? its CEO?  

there simply are no "for-profit" coins as nobody is interested in that stuff.

Well, scams are always for-profit, which among altcoins there're plenty of, if not the most part. But decent projects with an interesting tech always gain traction unless the developers make some bad mistakes.

[jeffthebaker]

That is interesting experiment, but most of the people are money hungry and it may be difficult for non-profit community driven project to attract attention even if it is deserved.

"non-profit"?

you are aware of that basically ALL cryptos are non-profit, apart from crap like ripple and onecoin and stuff like that?

or who "owns" BTC in your eyes? its CEO?  

there simply are no "for-profit" coins as nobody is interested in that stuff.

Well, scams are always for-profit, which among altcoins there're plenty of, if not the most part. But decent projects with an interesting tech always gain traction unless the developers make some bad mistakes.

Any coin with a premine or ICO is for-profit, which is essentially every coin out there. Most are for-profit nowadays. In the same vein, I'd argue most altcoins are scams, too.

[ttookk]

Do we have to have this discussion here? I think there are more pressing questions regarding XEL, than whether or not it is considered non-profit or not.