[Avalon ASIC] Batch #2 pre-Sale Thread

[repentance]

Now, having said that.. AVALON.. WHAT THE HELL   at 620 watts you still have a KICK ASS product !!! Why are you cheapening your brand by pulling a stupid stunt like this?  You are doing much more damage to yourself by playing the "well, technically bla bla bla" bullshit than just coming out and saying "dang, our estimates were off.. its really 620 watts"

I think that's why people are surprised.  It's really unlike Avalon to do this and I hope they'll just post the full system power consumption on their website.

[1713965431]

1713965431

[Nemesis]

Now, having said that.. AVALON.. WHAT THE HELL   at 620 watts you still have a KICK ASS product !!! Why are you cheapening your brand by pulling a stupid stunt like this?  You are doing much more damage to yourself by playing the "well, technically bla bla bla" bullshit than just coming out and saying "dang, our estimates were off.. its really 620 watts"

I think that's why people are surprised.  It's really unlike Avalon to do this and I hope they'll just post the full system power consumption on their website.

Hey..hey....hey....

NO BULLSHIT... That's their mojo

[MrTeal]

Avalon, what power supply will ship with the batch 2 preorders? Will it be the Antec PSU in Jeff Garzik's unit, the Enermax 1000W in the Bitcoin Foundation unit, or another one?

Will the PSU be capable of running 6 modules, and if not is there room in the case to add another ATX PSU?

[hardcore-fs]

And, because the design is modular, the modules can be replaced with more energy efficient 65nm process chips in the future.

It's not the chips which are pulling the extra power according to ngzhang's post.

I suppose it is the case fans and the TP-link router.

Avalon the 400w drag act.

[galambo]

And, because the design is modular, the modules can be replaced with more energy efficient 65nm process chips in the future.

It's not the chips which are pulling the extra power according to ngzhang's post.

I suppose it is the case fans and the TP-link router.

Avalon the 400w drag act.

Good luck overcoming the (well deserved) vanity of a successful engineer... my simulations were perfect, I tell you.

[neotrix]

Quote in newsletter : Module slots have been reverted back to 4 with a possibility to be changed to 6. this is to ensure the proper delivery time of batch two.

I like this statement meaning they prefer deliver in time than take the risk of delay due evolution. I do prefer to have something than nothing or to receive it 2 month later than planned because a new upgrade of product (meaning time for devellopement , new design...) and anyway as its 500usd per additional module...I do prefer have to case with 3 modules than 1 with 6 modules ( with all of temperature problem it could occurs...).

[repentance]

Quote in newsletter : Module slots have been reverted back to 4 with a possibility to be changed to 6. this is to ensure the proper delivery time of batch two.

Is the price still USD 1499?

[Bogart]

A standalone, self-contained Bitcoin mining unit.
It is literally plug-and-play; without the need for a separate hosting device.

Power Consumption: 450w

Clearly they're describing the entire device, not just the hashing modules.

I agree that the specs rightly ought to describe the power consumption of the entire device.

[rudrigorc2]

from the website

The no bullshit, no fine print terms of sale

We Accept Bitcoin Only – Bitcoin allow us to collect large sum of assets in a short period of time, and due their nature the bitcoins can also be move to where they are suppose to go in a similar time frame. We are aware this will introduce Import issues for certain EU and SA countries. Avalon ASIC hope re-sellers will take this opportunity to grow and take care of this problem.

No Refunds - The Avalon units are made on a built-to-order basis. This means when you place an order, your bitcoins are used to order parts to construct your Avalon Unit. Refunds therefore are impossible. Utilizing a short time frame, batch based, and built-to-order method allows to manage finances properly and reduce risk for all parties. e.g. Avalon ASIC, the re-sellers and the buyers.

Trade-Ins - Avalon will continue to honor our old customers providing trade-in programs of old generations units, FPGA, and in the future for first generation ASIC modules. The Trade-In Orders are not part of the 600 unit limitation existing in Batch #2.

Im sure im not the only one confused about the exact meaning of the bolded as the OP says you will accept in this batch#2 preorder.
this overtime term of sale smells like fine print c'mon. Im considering buying one or two and I hope you sell everthing but just say something and stick with that, changing rules in the last minute doesnt help.

[crazyates]

Quote in newsletter : Module slots have been reverted back to 4 with a possibility to be changed to 6. this is to ensure the proper delivery time of batch two.

I like this statement meaning they prefer deliver in time than take the risk of delay due evolution. I do prefer to have something than nothing or to receive it 2 month later than planned because a new upgrade of product (meaning time for devellopement , new design...) and anyway as its 500usd per additional module...I do prefer have to case with 3 modules than 1 with 6 modules ( with all of temperature problem it could occurs...).

I have to wonder if these power numbers we're seeing are part of the reason they're limited the modules to 4, rather than 6. A 6 module Avalon would pull over 1200W, continuous. It can be done, but not with a cheap PSU.

[Bogart]

from the website

The no bullshit, no fine print terms of sale

We Accept Bitcoin Only – Bitcoin allow us to collect large sum of assets in a short period of time, and due their nature the bitcoins can also be move to where they are suppose to go in a similar time frame. We are aware this will introduce Import issues for certain EU and SA countries. Avalon ASIC hope re-sellers will take this opportunity to grow and take care of this problem.

No Refunds - The Avalon units are made on a built-to-order basis. This means when you place an order, your bitcoins are used to order parts to construct your Avalon Unit. Refunds therefore are impossible. Utilizing a short time frame, batch based, and built-to-order method allows to manage finances properly and reduce risk for all parties. e.g. Avalon ASIC, the re-sellers and the buyers.

Trade-Ins - Avalon will continue to honor our old customers providing trade-in programs of old generations units, FPGA, and in the future for first generation ASIC modules. The Trade-In Orders are not part of the 600 unit limitation existing in Batch #2.

Im sure im not the only one confused about the exact meaning of the bolded as the OP says you will accept in this batch#2 preorder.
this overtime term of sale smells like fine print c'mon. Im considering buying one or two and I hope you sell everthing but just say something and stick with that, changing rules in the last minute doesnt help.

He's saying that in batch #2 they will sell 600 units to new customers, and will continue to make units in batch #2 available to trade-in customers even after 600 units have been ordered.

I think.

[rudrigorc2]

from the website

The no bullshit, no fine print terms of sale

We Accept Bitcoin Only – Bitcoin allow us to collect large sum of assets in a short period of time, and due their nature the bitcoins can also be move to where they are suppose to go in a similar time frame. We are aware this will introduce Import issues for certain EU and SA countries. Avalon ASIC hope re-sellers will take this opportunity to grow and take care of this problem.

No Refunds - The Avalon units are made on a built-to-order basis. This means when you place an order, your bitcoins are used to order parts to construct your Avalon Unit. Refunds therefore are impossible. Utilizing a short time frame, batch based, and built-to-order method allows to manage finances properly and reduce risk for all parties. e.g. Avalon ASIC, the re-sellers and the buyers.

Trade-Ins - Avalon will continue to honor our old customers providing trade-in programs of old generations units, FPGA, and in the future for first generation ASIC modules. The Trade-In Orders are not part of the 600 unit limitation existing in Batch #2.

Im sure im not the only one confused about the exact meaning of the bolded as the OP says you will accept in this batch#2 preorder.
this overtime term of sale smells like fine print c'mon. Im considering buying one or two and I hope you sell everthing but just say something and stick with that, changing rules in the last minute doesnt help.

He's saying that in batch #2 they will sell 600 units to new customers, and will continue to make units in batch #2 available to trade-in customers even after 600 units have been ordered.

I think.

Now I get it. Very nice. So I need that button GET CREDIT to work. NOW.
or hopefully before 9?

[Bowjob]

Just wondering, do we have the price of shipment included with the 1499.99 price or..? I'm reading up my coins, I hope I have enough.

[anti76]

been paid in full order:
Order # Date Ship To Order Total Status
200000846 11/24/12 --------- $ 8,159.94 Pending Wire View Order
After payment confirmed that they see. but did not get a device or writing about what I expect.
Avalon is the scammers?

[DoomDumas]

It's even worse that there was no warning from Yifu about it.

Pretty dishonest. I don't believe for a second they didn't measure/know this. Of course http://launch.avalon-asics.com still says:

Power Consumption: 450w

Hmm.

Note that power consumption announced by the BTC fundation is for a  more tha 80 Ghs (4 slot instead of 3) !

the 450W announced for a 3 slot unit seems real for as I understand it !

[Bicknellski]

The no bullshit, no fine print terms of sale
We Accept Bitcoin Only – Bitcoin allow us to collect large sum of assets in a short period of time, and due their nature the bitcoins can also be move to where they are suppose to go in a similar time frame. We are aware this will introduce Import issues for certain EU and SA countries. Avalon ASIC hope re-sellers will take this opportunity to grow and take care of this problem.

No Refunds - The Avalon units are made on a built-to-order basis. This means when you place an order, your bitcoins are used to order parts to construct your Avalon Unit. Refunds therefore are impossible. Utilizing a short time frame, batch based, and built-to-order method allows to manage finances properly and reduce risk for all parties. e.g. Avalon ASIC, the re-sellers and the buyers.

Trade-Ins - Avalon will continue to honor our old customers providing trade-in programs of old generations units, FPGA, and in the future for first generation ASIC modules. The Trade-In Orders are not part of the 600 unit limitation existing in Batch #2.

The Potential Risks
- Avalon ASIC will not be responsible for if a bitcoin bug is introduced rendering it useless between the period of time a batch of Avlaon units are being built.
- Avalon ASIC will not be responsible for if a proper Integrated Circuit company enters the market and produce a full-custom ASIC chip. Please evaluate your mining projections properly when purchasing Avalon ASIC.

Please read this carefully, as with all things Bitcoin one should treat this as an investment and make the decision best for you based on the liquid-able funds available at the moment when a batch opens for order.

I agree to the terms above and understand the potential risks.
orders open on febuary, 2nd, 2013. 9:00 am EST

Pretty clear I think... pretty risky... but I don't doubt the next 600 get snapped up fast.

[repentance]

Note that power consumption announced by the BTC fundation is for a  more tha 80 Ghs (4 slot instead of 3) !

the 450W announced for a 3 slot unit seems real for as I understand it !

It was Jeff's 3 slot unit which pulled 620 watts.  Avalon have already acknowledged that the 450 watt figure is for the chips only and not the power consumption of the total unit.

[Nemesis]

It's even worse that there was no warning from Yifu about it.

Pretty dishonest. I don't believe for a second they didn't measure/know this. Of course http://launch.avalon-asics.com still says:

Power Consumption: 450w

Hmm.

Note that power consumption announced by the BTC fundation is for a  more tha 80 Ghs (4 slot instead of 3) !

the 450W announced for a 3 slot unit seems real for as I understand it !

lol brain fart ??

[lastbit]

Any ASIC is vulnerable to changes in Bitcoin. (Including BFL)

Should any changes occur, the losses could be staggering. Those with FPGA's ought to keep them as insurance. Especially in light of the GPU miner shutting down once ASICs dominate the market.

How and from whom could such a change be done ? is there any kind of "consortium" who decides which algorythm is used ?

Any change in the bitcoin code will create a new fork, which will no longer be the the original "Bitcoin".

So while you COULD change the code, none of your new coins will work on the original Bitcoin platform, where all the ASICs are.

Maybe not? let's say change is from sha256(sha256(x)) to sha256(sha512(x)) and change will be implemented at block number Z. All old transaction (recorded in blocks older than Z) will be verified with old algorithm. All newer will be verified with new algorithm.

But I doubt such change will occur. ASICs are a necessity for bitcoin network to make it less vulnerable to a malicious entity, even if it will mean small miners will be taken out of the mining party.

LOL you must be new....

For a fork to work, the miner must support it. If more than 50% of miners are ASIC, you should forget about new fork.

I'm glad I made you laugh
But I was saying that a fork with a new hash function can be made and coins mined before Z-day can still work on the fork. The transactions are made (and signed with a hash) by the clients, not the miners. So even if ASICs have >50% hash power, the clients which agree to the hash fork will be able to use old coins. If something is wrong with me reasoning, I'd appreciate you'd tell me.

Indeed such change would create a mess, like SgtSpike said, and also because pre-Z-day coins are valid and can be double spent by clients on both ASIC and forked chains. So, as you said, such a fork (without consensus) cannot work and will not appear.

But a hash function change which is agreed by community (for example because a sudden sha256 flaw is discovered) can be made, old coins will be valid, and it will render the old ASICs useless.

[Bowjob]

Can someone answer my question? Is 1499 price in BTC including shipment or not?