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Author Topic: New Drama from BitcoinASIC  (Read 21713 times)
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February 01, 2013, 03:03:48 AM
 #1

https://www.bitcoinasic.net/
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February 01, 2013, 03:04:58 AM
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Copy/pasta:

Quote
UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. We are a specialized devision of a huge corporate electronics manufacturer in Canada and we want you to get to know us before we take even 1 order. Ordering has been suspended for now and we are sorting out the banking and tax issues with Tom. Hopefully he does the right thing and for his credit he has givin us zero indication that he does not have full intention of doing the right thing. Luckily for everyone Tom seems to be doing the best he can to refund every single customer in a timely fashion. Now I know we lost most of our customers and that is fine. We plan to show full video proof before we take 1 single order and unlike some competitors these shipments willl be coming from the USA and will include USPS tracking numbers (DHL for international customer) Now for the hard truth We have strong reason to believe that BFL has been stringing you along all this time beause it needed your money to cover their R&D / NRE costs, its quite likely they are even using Pre-sale orders to pay their employees saleries which i am not sure of US law but is illegal in Canada. BEWARE OF BFL. ITS ALL LIES. Their terms of service contract is basically setup so they can legally take your money and there is nothing you can do about it. Yes Finally! Avalon comes out with the first ASIC device but how many will we actually see in customers hands by months end. How about the end of Febuary, March? These numbers will be very low. The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better. My company has been developing custom ASIC and FPGA based solutions for decades we work in the military and telecommunications sectors and can accomplish this task at ease. We currently have a full functioning and hashing prototype which we plan to bring to production next week. We understand time critical solutions and it is our specialty. Instead of a full Standard CELL ASIC whch takes AGES to complete low success rates and extremey high NRE we are using FPGA hard copies of what is probably the best FPGA Bitcoin mining core in history (no it is not open source sorry ). Our ASIC chips can mine at over 2 gh/s comfortably and at a very low clock, which will ensure excellent heat disapation as well as chip longetivity. The inexpensive nature of the manufacturer of these chips will allow us to build machines that will use a large number of cheap chips and still keep electrical rates down to a reasonable level. These will be fully enclosed devices, not as cleaver as as our friends at Avalon with their stand alone wifi devices but they will include 25 FPGA hard copy ASICS which will use a maximum of 200watts per device. They will however require a host computer. The best part of our device is the speed at which we can develop them. We have a fully functional PCB fab and electronics assembly as well as a fully functional SHIPPING DEPARTMENT in house and we have already begun this process. I know it's a bit late in the game to introduce a product such as this but we wanted our news to get out there in the main stream. Tom is out. We are in. the bASIC is officially DEAD. Get ready for a 50Gh/s ASIC Based device shipping from the US with tracking and no none sense. There will be no deadline back outs and no B.S. We purchased this company from Tom for many reasons but the main reason is his un revealed completed design that can easily be converted to support 25 hard copy ASICS. The hardest work for us is already completed , Believe it or not, this IS happening and like I said before you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community. We cannot give an exact date at this time but It would not surprise me in the slightest that our first device ships before BFL. Professionals have taken this over and professionalism which is long over due in this industry will make all the difference. Please watch our you tube channel (coming soon) for a video of the device hashing by next week at the latest. Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available. Please check back for more updates.
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February 01, 2013, 03:09:40 AM
 #3

Copy/pasta:

Quote
UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. We are a specialized devision of a huge corporate electronics manufacturer in Canada and we want you to get to know us before we take even 1 order. Ordering has been suspended for now and we are sorting out the banking and tax issues with Tom. Hopefully he does the right thing and for his credit he has givin us zero indication that he does not have full intention of doing the right thing. Luckily for everyone Tom seems to be doing the best he can to refund every single customer in a timely fashion. Now I know we lost most of our customers and that is fine. We plan to show full video proof before we take 1 single order and unlike some competitors these shipments willl be coming from the USA and will include USPS tracking numbers (DHL for international customer) Now for the hard truth We have strong reason to believe that BFL has been stringing you along all this time beause it needed your money to cover their R&D / NRE costs, its quite likely they are even using Pre-sale orders to pay their employees saleries which i am not sure of US law but is illegal in Canada. BEWARE OF BFL. ITS ALL LIES. Their terms of service contract is basically setup so they can legally take your money and there is nothing you can do about it. Yes Finally! Avalon comes out with the first ASIC device but how many will we actually see in customers hands by months end. How about the end of Febuary, March? These numbers will be very low. The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better. My company has been developing custom ASIC and FPGA based solutions for decades we work in the military and telecommunications sectors and can accomplish this task at ease. We currently have a full functioning and hashing prototype which we plan to bring to production next week. We understand time critical solutions and it is our specialty. Instead of a full Standard CELL ASIC whch takes AGES to complete low success rates and extremey high NRE we are using FPGA hard copies of what is probably the best FPGA Bitcoin mining core in history (no it is not open source sorry ). Our ASIC chips can mine at over 2 gh/s comfortably and at a very low clock, which will ensure excellent heat disapation as well as chip longetivity. The inexpensive nature of the manufacturer of these chips will allow us to build machines that will use a large number of cheap chips and still keep electrical rates down to a reasonable level. These will be fully enclosed devices, not as cleaver as as our friends at Avalon with their stand alone wifi devices but they will include 25 FPGA hard copy ASICS which will use a maximum of 200watts per device. They will however require a host computer. The best part of our device is the speed at which we can develop them. We have a fully functional PCB fab and electronics assembly as well as a fully functional SHIPPING DEPARTMENT in house and we have already begun this process. I know it's a bit late in the game to introduce a product such as this but we wanted our news to get out there in the main stream. Tom is out. We are in. the bASIC is officially DEAD. Get ready for a 50Gh/s ASIC Based device shipping from the US with tracking and no none sense. There will be no deadline back outs and no B.S. We purchased this company from Tom for many reasons but the main reason is his un revealed completed design that can easily be converted to support 25 hard copy ASICS. The hardest work for us is already completed , Believe it or not, this IS happening and like I said before you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community. We cannot give an exact date at this time but It would not surprise me in the slightest that our first device ships before BFL. Professionals have taken this over and professionalism which is long over due in this industry will make all the difference. Please watch our you tube channel (coming soon) for a video of the device hashing by next week at the latest. Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available. Please check back for more updates.

Dear God, what I would give for some line breaks in that wall-o-text...
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February 01, 2013, 03:51:24 AM
 #4

a serious WTF?!!??!?! is going on... did the site get hacked or is this for real?!

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February 01, 2013, 03:52:59 AM
 #5

wow. . .

Some of my fellow Canucks have bought out bASIC and apparently plan to move ahead with a product launch??? Interesting.
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February 01, 2013, 03:58:26 AM
 #6

"devision" - really professional.  Glad I have no money in that anymore.

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February 01, 2013, 04:03:27 AM
 #7

"devision" - really professional.  Glad I have no money in that anymore.

Stopped reading after that. I'll just check back in a few weeks to see what ever happened to bASIC.
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February 01, 2013, 04:03:33 AM
 #8

Apparently a "huge corporate electronics manufacturer" has resorted to libel and is now attacking BFL, bASIC, and Avalon—all at once. And to add to the word power, look at their excellent spelling!

  • anyway
  • devision
  • givin
  • its
  • saleries
  • setup
  • months
  • supossid
  • disapation
  • longetivity
  • cleaver
  • none sense
  • un revealed
  • conman
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February 01, 2013, 04:04:06 AM
 #9

Professionals?  Perhaps.

Spellers?  No.
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February 01, 2013, 04:06:54 AM
 #10

lol

Why would anyone srs buy the steaming pile that's what remains of bASIC?

They say they have their own chips of a different design, so it wasn't for the chips.

There are no customers left, so it wasn't for that.

There are plenty of liabilities left, like a lot of BTC refunds needing to be paid out.

:head scratch:

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February 01, 2013, 04:10:29 AM
 #11

Utter bullshit! My apologies for not having those words in 50pt+ bold font.

If there are not at least three dozen grammatical errors in that text, I will leave Bitcoin forever,--never to return.

Professional, my fuckin' ass! Either the site was hacked, and would be the perfect excuse for Tom to declare once he reads the feedback, or the new team consists of idiots to the nth degree, and truly believe their line of bullshit will result is sales, read pre-orders--again!

bASIC is dead! End of story. No viable entity worth their salt would touch this with a barge-pole.

I hope these nameless bastards show their face so I can tell them what kind of fucked up idiots they are. Anybody who believes elsewise, didn't read pass what I quoted below, for that's where the first grammatically error occurs.

Quote
UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. We are a specialized devision(
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February 01, 2013, 04:13:56 AM
 #12

Quote
Third party drop-ins

If you are using a third party drop-in such as one of the popular Content Management Systems--WordPress, Joomla, Drupal, Movable Type, TypePad, Wordsmith, DotNetNuke, PHP Nuke, etc.--keep up to date on patches/updates. Since so many sites use these drop-ins, attackers know that if they can find a vulnerability in one of these, then there are thousands of sites that they can find to exploit and compromise. WordPress is currently the most popular CMS. Professional websites that get millions of hits a day use it. According to their site, hundreds of thousands of sites use it; imagine how that appeals to attackers. Hackers make extraordinary efforts to discover vulnerabilities in WordPress because of the large footprint of users they could compromise using that single vulnerability. Do not assume that if it's a 3rd party application it is secure. If your site has been compromised, and you use a 3rd party drop-in, check for and apply any available updates immediately and consider consulting the vendor's forums to determine if other users have been affected and whether a new patch will be made available soon.

Recovering from and dealing with a site compromise!
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February 01, 2013, 04:14:23 AM
 #13

[...]
Professional, my fuckin' ass!
[...]

I should forward you some email from my last general manager.  This was positively lucid in comparison.
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February 01, 2013, 04:14:29 AM
 #14

The best is at the bottom:

Pre-order today 800+ already have.

There should be a button beside that which say: Refund your order today!  800+ already have.
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February 01, 2013, 04:30:10 AM
 #15

Quote
UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway.

hint one: Tom/Dave must be the same person or it would have read: Tom and Dave are no longer...

Quote
We plan to show full video proof before we take 1 single order and unlike some competitors these shipments willl be coming from the USA and will include USPS tracking numbers (DHL for international customer)

great so far. holding off till they actually have a product. that way they can plan batch allotments and know how many pre-orders through before closing that batch.

Quote
Now for the hard truth We have strong reason to believe that BFL has been stringing you along all this time beause it needed your money to cover their R&D / NRE costs, its quite likely they are even using Pre-sale orders to pay their employees saleries which i am not sure of US law but is illegal in Canada. BEWARE OF BFL. ITS ALL LIES.

although i agree with the statement from a professional business point of view. making public statements based on opinion is grey area libal.. becareful.. dont getting a "slagging match" reducing your professionalism. try critisism with a flare of elegance and subtle meaning.  
Quote
Yes Finally! Avalon comes out with the first ASIC device but how many will we actually see in customers hands by months end.
300 if you include the next few days, they should arrive before the weekend from all announcements and whispers

Quote
The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better.

now this is the point i start to think, hang on. you have slated another company.. and have many grammar inaccuracies..
the professionalism is starting to evaporate.
i myself dont write for my business the same way i would as i would on forums, so my bad grammar is acceptable to me here, but not on a business announcement.

Quote
My company has been developing custom ASIC and FPGA based solutions for decades we work in the military and telecommunications sectors and can accomplish this task at ease.
company name? details?

Quote
We currently have a full functioning and hashing prototype which we plan to bring to production next week. We understand time critical solutions and it is our specialty.

wow u invented a ASIC and in under a week you will start taking pre-orders. WOW amazing.. pfft

Quote
Instead of a full Standard CELL ASIC whch takes AGES to complete low success rates and extremey high NRE we are using FPGA hard copies of what is probably the best FPGA Bitcoin mining core in history (no it is not open source sorry ).

so throwing existent FPGA chips into a big box all wired together. basically.. just a shame your decades of knowledge and equipment you should already have and not need to purchase due to your military ASIC projects can't produce a chip on the cheap. but at least you have half explained yourself out of how you will suddenly be able to start begging for cash in a few weeks

Quote
Our ASIC chips
cough FPGA cough

Quote
can mine at over 2 gh/s comfortably and at a very low clock, which will ensure excellent heat disapation as well as chip longetivity. The inexpensive nature of the manufacturer of these chips will allow us to build machines that will use a large number of cheap chips and still keep electrical rates down to a reasonable level. These will be fully enclosed devices, not as cleaver as as our friends at Avalon with their stand alone wifi devices but they will include 25 FPGA hard copy ASICS
which will use a maximum of 200watts per device.

now im thinking you have no idea the difference between an ASIC and a FPGA but 25 chips at 2Ghash thats atleast something worth noting.. 50Ghash product

Quote
They will however require a host computer. The best part of our device is the speed at which we can develop them. We have a fully functional PCB fab and electronics assembly as well as a fully functional SHIPPING DEPARTMENT in house and we have already begun this process. I know it's a bit late in the game to introduce a product such as this but we wanted our news to get out there in the main stream. Tom is out. We are in. the bASIC is officially DEAD. Get ready for a 50Gh/s ASIC Based device shipping from the US with tracking and no none sense. There will be no deadline back outs and no B.S. We purchased this company from Tom for many reasons but the main reason is his un revealed completed design that can easily be converted to support 25 hard copy ASICS. The hardest work for us is already completed ,

so from seeing Toms 'secret recipe' to already having a prototype.. that is quick

Quote
Believe it or not, this IS happening and like I said before you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community. We cannot give an exact date at this time but It would not surprise me in the slightest that our first device ships before BFL. Professionals have taken this over and professionalism which is long over due in this industry will make all the difference.

could have started your professionalism with a better pre-drafted out announcement.

Quote
Please watch our you tube channel (coming soon) for a video of the device hashing by next week at the latest. Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available. Please check back for more updates.

too many holes.. im going to hold out till batch 2 Cheesy and even worse spelling, grammar and paragraph layout then me.. and that's saying something

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February 01, 2013, 04:31:30 AM
 #16

Wall of text with no line breaks. Poor html hack together. Spelling errors. Grammar errors. Bashing the competition. Totally vague about who they really are. Claiming Tom is permanently out. Claiming they can throw together a FPGA hardcopy with Tom's 4x4=16 chip board (adapted to a 5x5=25 chip board, I'm assuming?), and be shipping "Before BFL", which I take to mean March '13. 30 days. Really?

My favorite part:
Quote
The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better.

Either Tom got drunk again, and started posting shit, or bASIC is screwed worse than they were before.

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February 01, 2013, 04:34:00 AM
 #17

Wall of text with no line breaks. Poor html hack together. Spelling errors. Grammar errors. Bashing the competition. Totally vague about who they really are. Claiming Tom is permanently out. Claiming they can throw together a FPGA hardcopy with Tom's 4x4=16 chip board (adapted to a 5x5=25 chip board, I'm assuming?), and be shipping "Before BFL", which I take to mean March '13. 30 days. Really?

My favorite part:
Quote
The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better.

Either Tom got drunk again, and started posting shit, or bASIC is screwed worse than they were before.
"Before BFL" is used figuratively. It means, "before the heat death of the universe".
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February 01, 2013, 04:39:52 AM
 #18

FYI, I started penning my post above when there were only three replies to this thread, hence reiterating the grammatical aspect already brought to light.

800+ pre-sold my ass! I bet you not one of them has the balls enough to declare that they pre-ordered from the new bASIC if one did exist.

Cablepair in 5... 4... 3...

CP: My website was hacked and I can't get into it. Don't believe a word ever written on it.

Quote
...how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better.

Is he dissing the company he just took over?
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February 01, 2013, 05:47:17 AM
 #19

I just wonder when will AMD join the game...  Their stock performance is miserable, this might be the chance to turn the tide for the company, they could easily produce the most advanced ASIC devices using their 40nm process and very mature cooling solution, then we will back to the old gpu mining era  Grin Grin

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February 01, 2013, 05:48:31 AM
 #20

I just wonder when will AMD join the game...  Their stock performance is miserable, this might be the chance to turn the tide for the company, they could easily produce the most advanced ASIC devices using their 40nm process and very mature cooling solution, then we will back to the old gpu mining era  Grin Grin

Like, 0.1% of their GPU sales are for mining. The market isn't big enough for AMD ASIC yet.
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February 01, 2013, 06:17:05 AM
 #21

Copy/pasta:

Quote
Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available. Please check back for more updates.
Well it's nice they decided to use me as their primary software developer if something ever goes ahead... but given conman is my IRC nickname and it holds certain "connotations", it would probably have been better to use my real name  Wink

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February 01, 2013, 06:20:54 AM
 #22

Not that I believe this is legitimate, but many business managers and technical engineering types actually don't have great spelling/grammar/etc (or don't care).  Some of the emails I received from those sorts were worse than this even was.  Just something to think about...
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February 01, 2013, 06:23:25 AM
 #23

fake or not I would feel a lot better ordering a product from a company that can tell you this:

Quote
you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community

but until then I guess we have to pass the bill in order to see whats in it.. err or wait that's something else.

poop!
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February 01, 2013, 06:27:00 AM
 #24

I just wonder when will AMD join the game...  Their stock performance is miserable, this might be the chance to turn the tide for the company, they could easily produce the most advanced ASIC devices using their 40nm process and very mature cooling solution, then we will back to the old gpu mining era  Grin Grin

Like, 0.1% of their GPU sales are for mining. The market isn't big enough for AMD ASIC yet.

I guess many of their high end GPU were bought to mine coins. This day is not far away if BTC price rise enough high, making ASIC devices are much eaiser than graphic cards, they need only a small project setup, and their 32nm process is already mature

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February 01, 2013, 06:48:38 AM
 #25

Not that I believe this is legitimate, but many business managers and technical engineering types actually don't have great spelling/grammar/etc (or don't care).  Some of the emails I received from those sorts were worse than this even was.  Just something to think about...

Possibly, but to put up a wall of text on an official website, coupled with having it improperly formatted on the page doesn't look like something some self-professed professional should do if they want to be taken seriously. Atlas, off his medication, could have done better.
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February 01, 2013, 09:11:17 AM
 #26

I consider Tom & BTCFPGA a SCAM: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140472.0

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February 01, 2013, 09:26:46 AM
 #27

Kinda looks like Tom or comproTom (aka drunk Tom, the supposedly compromised account that stirred up some drama recently).
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February 01, 2013, 12:25:51 PM
 #28

bASIC is dead! End of story. No viable entity worth their salt would touch this with a barge-pole.

Well, I'm not so sure about this. If bASIC had a viable (albeit poorly run) strategy before and basic chip processes nailed down, I don't see why another company couldn't come in, take over, and clean up the mess left over.

However, the keyboard vomit that is that wall of text isn't indicative of a "professional company" coming in...at least none that I've ever seen. It looks like some kid on Adderall sat down and started trying to type something convincing.

I am curious to see how this plays out, even though they're not getting any business from me.

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February 01, 2013, 12:43:18 PM
 #29

Sadly new people to bitcoin and/or the scene may accidentally pre-order from that piece of shit site.

Anything / Everything bASIC and Tom need to be labeled as scams/scammer..

Speaking of Drunk "ComproTom", a couple classics:

http://imageshack.us/a/img687/9982/tom22jansummary.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/4645/tom22janbasicrefundthre.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img163/2263/tom22janavalonthread.png


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February 01, 2013, 12:54:57 PM
 #30

Sorry.... time to call for a SCAMMER tag.

https://www.bitcoinasic.net

"Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available."

so the "WE" becomes "my"

" We are in. the bASIC is officially DEAD."

on a website that continually mentions "BASIC"


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February 01, 2013, 01:19:39 PM
 #31

Sure their first post is "unprofessional", but they're not asking you to send millions of dollars before there's any proof the hardware exists...

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February 01, 2013, 01:49:02 PM
 #32

Sure their first post is "unprofessional", but they're not asking you to send millions of dollars before there's any proof the hardware exists...

Not directly, true. But I was under the impression it was implied after they noted "not to by from BFL, Avalon, or bASIC" since they're "all lies". I suppose that leaves ASICMiner Cheesy

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February 01, 2013, 01:53:23 PM
 #33

Meh - at this point, let the blind sheep continue to follow and throw money at this turd hole if they wish

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February 01, 2013, 01:54:24 PM
 #34

Sure their first post is "unprofessional", but they're not asking you to send millions of dollars before there's any proof the hardware exists...

This!

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!

I for one will be watching and waiting for sufficient proof, if there is a new player here and they prove to my satisfaction they are different that the current two vendors (who will never receive and order from me) then I will in all likely hood buy a couple of devices as I have a few bucks kicking around and am DYING to get into the mining game.

if this is more bull shit oh well but personally I will wait a little while and see as I have nothing to lose by doing that!



 
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February 01, 2013, 02:06:50 PM
 #35

Possibly, but to put up a wall of text on an official website, coupled with having it improperly formatted on the page doesn't look like something some self-professed professional should do if they want to be taken seriously. Atlas, off his medication, could have done better.

Not to mention the fact that "huge corporate manufacturers" have whole PR teams who can actually spell and whose sole job is to promote their company as often and as loudly as possible.  There's not a snowflake's chance in hell that a representative of a "huge corporation" wouldn't be splashing the name of that corporation around all over the place, giving their real name and their contact details to everyone.

Anyone who claims to work for a "large corporation" and doesn't tell you at which office they can be located on which phone number they can be contacted is full of shit.  No exceptions.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 01, 2013, 02:10:52 PM
 #36

The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable

How so? The only one that's done it so far is Avalon...

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February 01, 2013, 02:17:52 PM
 #37

Kinda looks like Tom or comproTom (aka drunk Tom, the supposedly compromised account that stirred up some drama recently).

Exactly.

Use of language.. mistakes..

Let's hope it's Tom's last spasm Undecided

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February 01, 2013, 04:16:09 PM
 #38

I sure that the Canadian benefactor and Conman can deliver.
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February 01, 2013, 04:17:07 PM
 #39

So, he sold it all to Asian Canadians?

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February 01, 2013, 04:24:16 PM
 #40

.......this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!

Welcome to Deadwood...
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February 01, 2013, 04:31:06 PM
 #41

Tom's drunk again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TehFZ38kt6o
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February 01, 2013, 04:34:21 PM
 #42

Our new Canadian overloards...LOL

I do not have any idea why this shit has not been labelled a scam.

1. Chips were done and under lock and key.. last year (lie)
2. PCB design was changed, but now that is all ok (lie)
3. Tom started drunk posting in November (true, at least that is what we are lead to believe)
4. Tom was making bets and appears to have a massive gambling problem (true)
5. Tom and Dave have never been together at the same time, and Dave did not show up in NY after he said he would (true)
6. Lukas goes to NY and Tom does not even bother to show up and Lukas reports back he found "nothing of value" (true)
7. There have been none/to very little BTC refunds (true)
8. Tom goes on another bender, blames all of us for him being a fuck up/scamming piece of shit/drunk (true)
9. Tom and Dave both get hacked. Even though they are really working on security systems as a business (true)  That either means they dumb as fuck or lying
10. The company is being sold to Asian benefactors <what are we concubines? (lie)
11. Old money Bitcoin is riding to the rescue - just wait a little longer (lie)
12. I give my personal guarantee that everything will be ok and we will ship in March (99.9999% lie)

I could keep going, but I think that is enough

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February 01, 2013, 04:35:17 PM
 #43

Hit up the Tom/bASIC scam thread and +1 it - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140472.0

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February 01, 2013, 04:50:04 PM
 #44

Quote
UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. ...

Look legit, I heard he changed his name to "Mr Drunk Tom" .
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February 01, 2013, 05:06:41 PM
 #45


Let's hope the boy is not back in town... Cool

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February 01, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
 #46

The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable

How so? The only one that's done it so far is Avalon...

Basically interest free loans, lost opportunity, and the potential for an outright scam.

Any company that takes pre-order money for a product that simply does not exist yet is putting all the risk on buyer.

1)  Best case scenario for an early pre-order customer that one of them delivers and they receive a working ASIC device that has a decent ROI
2)  middle of the road case scenario, customers decided not to wait any longer or manufacture decides to pull the plug on the project and refunds 100% of orders
3) worst case scenario company goes under or is a scam and no devices delivered and no refunds given.

no lets look at the same scenario for the manufacture
1)  deliver working product - Yay everyone is happy!
2) damn we just couldnt do but hey no harm no foul we refunded everyone 100% right (oh but btw we did use that money for many months for what ever the hell we wanted and gave no consideration for it).
3)while this is certainly the worst case for them at the end of the day they declare bankrupcy and walk away lol..

Id say the customer is risking far more the the company and this is not normal for pre ordering products.


This isnt how pre-ordering products work this is more like investing sugar coated by calling them pre-orders.  the only one that is even remotely acceptable is AsicMiner as at least they are calling it an investment giving the appropiate risk reward scenario and are up front about it...
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February 01, 2013, 05:54:20 PM
 #47

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

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February 01, 2013, 05:57:13 PM
 #48

The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable

How so? The only one that's done it so far is Avalon...

Any company that takes pre-order money for a product that simply does not exist yet is putting all the risk on buyer.

So, I'm assuming all the risk when I go over to GameStop and preorder the next latest title 6-12 months in advance?

I understand the point your trying to make, but if refunds are a feasible option for the customer "investor", then the risk is limited. Hence why Avalon is the riskiest investment opportunity out there right now...once you give them your money, that's it..nothing else you can do except wait for your product.
At least with BFL (and bASIC there for a while) you can get a refund immediately. With ASICMiner you can just sell your shares (though I'm not sure how liquid they are).

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February 01, 2013, 06:38:33 PM
 #49

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

Ditto... I was about to post a similar note.
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February 01, 2013, 06:42:44 PM
 #50

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

Last time I checked, not all Canadien has English mother tongue. They could be Frech Canadians.

I'm not Canadian btw, just recalling that I visited Canada last time (Quebec city)
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February 01, 2013, 07:08:46 PM
 #51

The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable

How so? The only one that's done it so far is Avalon...

Any company that takes pre-order money for a product that simply does not exist yet is putting all the risk on buyer.

So, I'm assuming all the risk when I go over to GameStop and preorder the next latest title 6-12 months in advance?

I understand the point your trying to make, but if refunds are a feasible option for the customer "investor", then the risk is limited. Hence why Avalon is the riskiest investment opportunity out there right now...once you give them your money, that's it..nothing else you can do except wait for your product.
At least with BFL (and bASIC there for a while) you can get a refund immediately. With ASICMiner you can just sell your shares (though I'm not sure how liquid they are).


This is my point the risk is there and the customer took it small, big w/e the customer floated the risk thats all i am saying at this point.  There isnt a guarentee of refunds hence why i belive it should have been called an investment and not a pre-order

I disagree about the gaming analogy, you are buying a game for entertainment (more like buying movie passes or concert tickets) and there is virtually no chance of "making an ROI".  Games are designed and sold as entertainment ASIC hardware is not sold for entertainment.  Also when I purchase entertainment products I probably wouldnt have used that money to invest with so I dont care how long it takes to get the game to me.  If someone used the money for investing in bitcoins instead of hardware they would be in for a nice little ROI currently, but alas the vendors had the money tied up in R&D so I lost the oppotunity to make money.  This is the risk you as a customer took all under the guise of a pre-order.  Just fucking tell me I am investing that is all I would have asked.  If I wanted smoke blown up my ass I would be at home with a pack of cigarettes and a short length of hose.

Just because Avalon is/was the riskiest does not mean there is/was no risk from the others. 

I have a feeling that so far anyone who paid bASIC in BTC and has yet to receive their refund is feeling like they took a lot of risk (and lost) at this point.  Just because some vendors honoured refunds does not mean there was no risk in the first place (there was never a guarentee refunds would be honored hence the risk)

I get what they were doing what I don't like is how they sugar coated it calling pre-orders.  What all the vendors have done is ask for an investement/ interest free loan from the community but called it pre-orders.. 

By the way why didnt they go to a bank or an investement firm for R&D costs?  I am guessing an interest free loan from the community was much easier to get and much more economically appealing...


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February 01, 2013, 08:11:11 PM
 #52

This is my point the risk is there and the customer took it small, big w/e the customer floated the risk thats all i am saying at this point.  There isnt a guarentee of refunds hence why i belive it should have been called an investment and not a pre-order.

We seem to be on the same page here.


I disagree about the gaming analogy, you are buying a game for entertainment (more like buying movie passes or concert tickets) and there is virtually no chance of "making an ROI".  Games are designed and sold as entertainment ASIC hardware is not sold for entertainment

I'm not sure you understand what a return on investment is..but you can make one on anything, it just doesn't have to be positive Wink

And ASICs can be quite entertaining when put in front of the right audience Smiley

What all the vendors have done is ask for an investement/ interest free loan from the community but called it pre-orders.. 

By the way why didnt they go to a bank or an investement firm for R&D costs?  I am guessing an interest free loan from the community was much easier to get and much more economically appealing...

You might want to go back and check your facts on that one. Avalon, BFL, and bASIC all had income from their FPGA sales, which primarily fueled their ASIC development. Butterfly Labs also has outside funding besides their previous sales. Whether or not each company used preorder funds to help in the development process is up for debate, but my hunch is that most companies took the more ethical route.

And for all we know, others could have gotten external funding as well. It's not like they're publicly traded companies with the requirement to disclose such information.

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February 01, 2013, 08:44:07 PM
 #53

This is my point the risk is there and the customer took it small, big w/e the customer floated the risk thats all i am saying at this point.  There isnt a guarentee of refunds hence why i belive it should have been called an investment and not a pre-order.

We seem to be on the same page here.


I disagree about the gaming analogy, you are buying a game for entertainment (more like buying movie passes or concert tickets) and there is virtually no chance of "making an ROI".  Games are designed and sold as entertainment ASIC hardware is not sold for entertainment.

I'm not sure you understand what a return on investment is..but you can make one on anything, it just doesn't have to be positive Wink

And ASICs can be quite entertaining when put in front of the right audience Smiley

What all the vendors have done is ask for an investement/ interest free loan from the community but called it pre-orders..  

By the way why didnt they go to a bank or an investement firm for R&D costs?  I am guessing an interest free loan from the community was much easier to get and much more economically appealing...

You might want to go back and check your facts on that one. Avalon, BFL, and bASIC all had income from their FPGA sales, which primarily fueled their ASIC development. Butterfly Labs also has outside funding besides their previous sales. Whether or not each company used preorder funds to help in the development process is up for debate, but my hunch is that most companies took the more ethical route.

And for all we know, others could have gotten external funding as well. It's not like they're publicly traded companies with the requirement to disclose such information.

I am aware of what ROI means... guess I should have put +ROI but I think you're knit picking and understand my point. Simply put purchasing a game is not an investment its for entertainment (for the vast majority of consumers at least).  Purchasing ASICS is to try and make money (or potentially other more noble reasons) but I think primarily its to see if a few bucks can be made.

If they had profits and outside investments, why exactly did they need to take full payment pre-orders?  if they didnt need customer money why not take a small deposit to hold the clients place, this is what normal real world companies do?
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February 01, 2013, 08:49:22 PM
 #54

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

Last time I checked, not all Canadien has English mother tongue. They could be Frech Canadians.

I'm not Canadian btw, just recalling that I visited Canada last time (Quebec city)


To be honest, we don't consider the francophones real Canadians anyway.. They are Canadiens.. Smiley
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February 01, 2013, 09:04:35 PM
 #55

Not sure why the discussion now is around Canadians. For all I care, it could be the Russians, the Italians, the Godfather and so on ...

Oh, I get it; they use Canada to try to look legit, you know Canada, close to U.S.? ... North America? ... cousins?

I think this is a watch and wait. Wait for a video, wait for the products to be ready to ship, hell, even wait for someone to order first. Based on that eye-bleeding wall of text, I wouldn't order from that company even if my life would depend on it.


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February 01, 2013, 09:31:32 PM
 #56

I think you're knit picking nitpicking.

Oh most definitely  Cheesy

If they had profits and outside investments, why exactly did they need to take full payment pre-orders?  if they didnt need customer money why not take a small deposit to hold the clients place, this is what normal real world companies do?

Meh, why not? As a small company, it's vastly easier to have everyone pay in full right from the start. When the time comes to build, package, and ship, it's nice to know that you have X amount of customers that have already paid, compared to X [fully paid], Y [partially paid], and/or even Z [not paid]. It negates the "Oh wait, did this person pay the rest of their bill before I ship?" type of mentality.

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February 01, 2013, 09:36:57 PM
 #57

Copy/pasta:

Quote
UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. We are a specialized devision of a huge corporate electronics manufacturer in Canada and we want you to get to know us before we take even 1 order. Ordering has been suspended for now and we are sorting out the banking and tax issues with Tom. Hopefully he does the right thing and for his credit he has givin us zero indication that he does not have full intention of doing the right thing. Luckily for everyone Tom seems to be doing the best he can to refund every single customer in a timely fashion. Now I know we lost most of our customers and that is fine. We plan to show full video proof before we take 1 single order and unlike some competitors these shipments willl be coming from the USA and will include USPS tracking numbers (DHL for international customer) Now for the hard truth We have strong reason to believe that BFL has been stringing you along all this time beause it needed your money to cover their R&D / NRE costs, its quite likely they are even using Pre-sale orders to pay their employees saleries which i am not sure of US law but is illegal in Canada. BEWARE OF BFL. ITS ALL LIES. Their terms of service contract is basically setup so they can legally take your money and there is nothing you can do about it. Yes Finally! Avalon comes out with the first ASIC device but how many will we actually see in customers hands by months end. How about the end of Febuary, March? These numbers will be very low. The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better. My company has been developing custom ASIC and FPGA based solutions for decades we work in the military and telecommunications sectors and can accomplish this task at ease. We currently have a full functioning and hashing prototype which we plan to bring to production next week. We understand time critical solutions and it is our specialty. Instead of a full Standard CELL ASIC whch takes AGES to complete low success rates and extremey high NRE we are using FPGA hard copies of what is probably the best FPGA Bitcoin mining core in history (no it is not open source sorry ). Our ASIC chips can mine at over 2 gh/s comfortably and at a very low clock, which will ensure excellent heat disapation as well as chip longetivity. The inexpensive nature of the manufacturer of these chips will allow us to build machines that will use a large number of cheap chips and still keep electrical rates down to a reasonable level. These will be fully enclosed devices, not as cleaver as as our friends at Avalon with their stand alone wifi devices but they will include 25 FPGA hard copy ASICS which will use a maximum of 200watts per device. They will however require a host computer. The best part of our device is the speed at which we can develop them. We have a fully functional PCB fab and electronics assembly as well as a fully functional SHIPPING DEPARTMENT in house and we have already begun this process. I know it's a bit late in the game to introduce a product such as this but we wanted our news to get out there in the main stream. Tom is out. We are in. the bASIC is officially DEAD. Get ready for a 50Gh/s ASIC Based device shipping from the US with tracking and no none sense. There will be no deadline back outs and no B.S. We purchased this company from Tom for many reasons but the main reason is his un revealed completed design that can easily be converted to support 25 hard copy ASICS. The hardest work for us is already completed , Believe it or not, this IS happening and like I said before you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community. We cannot give an exact date at this time but It would not surprise me in the slightest that our first device ships before BFL. Professionals have taken this over and professionalism which is long over due in this industry will make all the difference. Please watch our you tube channel (coming soon) for a video of the device hashing by next week at the latest. Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available. Please check back for more updates.

This makes absolutely no sense, just like all the other recent posts of Tom. I think he's hallucinating.

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February 01, 2013, 09:44:00 PM
 #58

This text has been updated several times.. so far....
So obviously who ever it is , is reading the threads.

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February 01, 2013, 10:07:13 PM
 #59

This text has been updated several times.. so far....
So obviously who ever it is , is reading the threads.


LOL .. it has?! weird...

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repentance
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February 01, 2013, 10:09:11 PM
 #60


This makes absolutely no sense, just like all the other recent posts of Tom. I think he's hallucinating.

There's always more, and it's always worse.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 01, 2013, 10:41:58 PM
 #61

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!
 

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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February 01, 2013, 10:51:34 PM
 #62

Sure their first post is "unprofessional", but they're not asking you to send millions of dollars before there's any proof the hardware exists...

They're also not naming which "huge corporation" they're a division of - despite saying that they want people to "get to know them".  No huge corporation would have let that verbal vomit be posted.  The announcement that they had bought bASIC would have been carefully crafted by someone who can write English.  Comments about Tom, Dave and BFL wouldn't have been approved for posting on the website.  References to bASIC would have been removed if they're re-branding.  A "huge corporation" would have made sure that the announcement included the names and contact numbers of the division staff.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 01, 2013, 10:52:35 PM
 #63

I think you're knit picking nitpicking.

Oh most definitely  Cheesy

If they had profits and outside investments, why exactly did they need to take full payment pre-orders?  if they didnt need customer money why not take a small deposit to hold the clients place, this is what normal real world companies do?

Meh, why not? As a small company, it's vastly easier to have everyone pay in full right from the start and have them shoulder all the risk. When the time comes to build, package, and ship, it's nice to know that you have X amount of customers that have already paid, compared to X [fully paid], Y [partially paid], and/or even Z [not paid]. It negates the "Oh wait, did this person pay the rest of their bill before I ship?" type of mentality.

Why not is definitely not a valid reason IMO...  I believe my correction to you statement is more accurate and would agree completely with it .

Hell if they had the money to float the project but still took full payment pre-orders than what did they use client money for, speculation, paying salaries, R&D, hookers and blow.  Really it doesn't matter what they did with it IMO the community gave them an interest free loan for an "open" amount of time, if shit hit the fan they could have lost money and what would the manufactures have lost?  If they took it and needed it shame on them, if they took it and didn't need it shame on them.

I mean just look at Avalon, pre pay in full with no refund... that's on batch #2  Avalon is losing absolutely nothing no matter what happens, anyone ordering is taking all the risk (big or small its still risk).  When purchasing goods it is not normal for the consumer to take ALL the risk while the retailer and manufacture take none.  God I wish I could get away with this type of business model at my job!

And to your last point (sorry not familiar with the multi quoting from a single post yet... yup Im a newb!).  You can gauge the demand for a product based on pre-sales with a small deposit vs full pre paid orders.  Wouldn't it be sweet if there was a machine and some type of program that could have all of the client information on various stages of orders, payments, shipments etc  Wink  Come on dude handling (in Avalons case 300 orders for batch #1) is not that difficult in 2013 (unless you believe their current PR campaign).  They can design and manufacture ASICS but cant run a tiny little Etail operation because clients haven't pre paid in full.
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February 01, 2013, 11:04:58 PM
 #64

I mean just look at Avalon, pre pay in full with no refund... that's on batch #2  Avalon is losing absolutely nothing no matter what happens, anyone ordering is taking all the risk (big or small its still risk).  When purchasing goods it is not normal for the consumer to take ALL the risk while the retailer and manufacture take none.  God I wish I could get away with this type of business model at my job!

Do you build to order in your job?  It's actually pretty common to pay upfront and not be able to get a refund on built to order goods.  Bitcoins ASICs have had a long timeline from order to delivery on their first batches and you're right that customers were bearing a large risk.  I don't think you can say that they were bearing all the risk, though, because it's highly likely that first batch sales didn't cover development costs.

No-one's forcing anyone to pre-order.  Plenty of people have decided to wait until BFL is shipping on a normal retail basis rather than pre-order from anyone.

You're apparently also overlooking the fact that Avalon didn't intend to ship rigs initially so they weren't set up for that.  They've been open about the fact that pre-order funds for Batch 2 will be used to build the units.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 01, 2013, 11:12:39 PM
 #65

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!
 

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?


You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?
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February 01, 2013, 11:33:03 PM
 #66

I mean just look at Avalon, pre pay in full with no refund... that's on batch #2  Avalon is losing absolutely nothing no matter what happens, anyone ordering is taking all the risk (big or small its still risk).  When purchasing goods it is not normal for the consumer to take ALL the risk while the retailer and manufacture take none.  God I wish I could get away with this type of business model at my job!

Do you build to order in your job?  It's actually pretty common to pay upfront and not be able to get a refund on built to order goods.  Bitcoins ASICs have had a long timeline from order to delivery on their first batches and you're right that customers were bearing a large risk.  I don't think you can say that they were bearing all the risk, though, because it's highly likely that first batch sales didn't cover development costs.

No-one's forcing anyone to pre-order.  Plenty of people have decided to wait until BFL is shipping on a normal retail basis rather than pre-order from anyone.

You're apparently also overlooking the fact that Avalon didn't intend to ship rigs initially so they weren't set up for that.  They've been open about the fact that pre-order funds for Batch 2 will be used to build the units.

Actually I do BTO work at my job.  I work for a rack and cabinet manufacture as an account manager and about 20% of my business is custom sheet metal fab.  Any custom or BTO job we take our quotes are very clear that they are non-cancellable and non-returnable once material has arrived and fab has started.  We also provide the client with a production drawing for sign off approval.  I know its just metal and not electronics IP etc and we are not selling retail (we are distribution centric).  We never take money up front, in fact we get a PO and the client is billed and is required to pay net 30 after delivery.  I certainly would never suggest ASIC manufacture is anything like what we do and certainly what we do is not realistic for this situation I get that.  My point is all about only taking full payment pre-orders to transfer much of the risk to the consumer/end user.

Forced wasn't the best word, I didn't intend for it to be translated literally.  What I should have said was if you want to get into ASICS you will only be able to do by full payment pre-orders thus transferring a debateable amount of risk from the manufacture to the consumer.

As for "All" the risk OK maybe that was to unilateral but they shed some risk from themselves to the consumer by only accepting orders the way they do.
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February 01, 2013, 11:56:28 PM
 #67

What I should have said was if you want to get into ASICS you will only be able to do by full payment pre-orders thus transferring a debateable amount of risk from the manufacture to the consumer.

That won't be the case once BFL catches up on their pre-orders.  They'll be looking at a turnaround time of a couple of days from order to shipping then - faster than Dell can build me and ship me a computer and certainly faster than the two months or so I have to wait for built to order furniture that I've paid for.

ASIC pre-order customers have taken substantial risks - there's no doubt about that - but the option of waiting until BFL pre-orders were cleared has always been there.  Those who pre-ordered wanted to be the first to get ASICs because they realise that every ASIC which hits the market diminishes the profitability of all other ASICs.  Most were hoping to have their ASICs in hand before the block reward halved and thought that they'd have a significant head start on ASIC mining before a large number of ASICs were delivered by different vendors.  They viewed the potential reward as being worth the risk.  

The big thing to remember is that this product has one purpose - to generate income in the form of Bitcoins.  That people will take huge risks in pursuit of Bitcoins has been demonstrated time and time again.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 01, 2013, 11:59:42 PM
 #68

Flying Hellfish - STFU

FTFY,

Feel free to ignore me.  

Lol, I actually don't know what to say to this.
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February 02, 2013, 12:24:17 AM
 #69

What I should have said was if you want to get into ASICS you will only be able to do by full payment pre-orders thus transferring a debateable amount of risk from the manufacture to the consumer.

That won't be the case once BFL catches up on their pre-orders.  They'll be looking at a turnaround time of a couple of days from order to shipping then - faster than Dell can build me and ship me a computer and certainly faster than the two months or so I have to wait for built to order furniture that I've paid for.

ASIC pre-order customers have taken substantial risks - there's no doubt about that - but the option of waiting until BFL pre-orders were cleared has always been there.  Those who pre-ordered wanted to be the first to get ASICs because they realise that every ASIC which hits the market diminishes the profitability of all other ASICs.  Most were hoping to have their ASICs in hand before the block reward halved and thought that they'd have a significant head start on ASIC mining before a large number of ASICs were delivered by different vendors.  They viewed the potential reward as being worth the risk.  

The big thing to remember is that this product has one purpose - to generate income in the form of Bitcoins.  That people will take huge risks in pursuit of Bitcoins has been demonstrated time and time again.

I agree for the most part.

Vendors catching up still IMO doesn't justify the risk shedding that is involved initially.
I understand the early adopters likely (or at least should have) done a risk reward analysis and decided for themselves, again I still don't agree with how the manufactures transfer risk from themselves to the consumer when I believe any risk they shed should have been shoulder by them.   I think those that took a risk had enough already without taking on additional risk that I think the manufacture should have shouldered.

BTW thank you for not attacking me (like someone who works for an ASIC vendor and some other random troll did) and trying to discuss this with me.  As a forum and BTC newb this stuff fascinates me and appreciate being corrected politely.
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February 02, 2013, 12:26:26 AM
 #70

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!
 

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?


You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?

If you don't want people to take your inflammatory, false/misleading statements at face value, then say what you mean.  You have never been forced to order from any ASIC vendor.  You have always had the option to wait until the products were available for purchase and shipped to you.  Your entire premise is flawed, in so far as the fact that if you pre-ordered, you chose to do so of your own free will.  If the risk that you would be bearing is too much, then do not pre-order. There is absolutely zero requirement for you to do so, thus your statements are false.  You may not like it, true, but you are free not to participate.  Those that are willing to shoulder the risk and those that don't mind the situation will take your place... but there is nothing forcing you to participate at any level.

Yes, of course, attacking you... pointing out that your entire statement is false in a semi-humorous way is attacking you.  You're the only troll here, sir.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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February 02, 2013, 01:11:42 AM
 #71

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!
 

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?


You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?

If you don't want people to take your inflammatory, false/misleading statements at face value, then say what you mean.  You have never been forced to order from any ASIC vendor.  You have always had the option to wait until the products were available for purchase and shipped to you.  Your entire premise is flawed, in so far as the fact that if you pre-ordered, you chose to do so of your own free will.  If the risk that you would be bearing is too much, then do not pre-order. There is absolutely zero requirement for you to do so, thus your statements are false.  You may not like it, true, but you are free not to participate.  Those that are willing to shoulder the risk and those that don't mind the situation will take your place... but there is nothing forcing you to participate at any level.

Yes, of course, attacking you... pointing out that your entire statement is false in a semi-humorous way is attacking you.  You're the only troll here, sir.


Really, if you honestly believed from my post that I was implying that any vendor forcefully made anyone order or that anyone ordered not of their own free will you are more ignorant than I thought.  I actually said "the community" that implies a group not an individual. All vendors decided to use full payment pre orders as the only method.  You all knew the market was big enough that enough people would be willing to take any option given them, greed blinds after all.  That's why you chose full payment pre-orders only, so don't come off with some high and mighty free will bull shit.

You seem to be good at diversion and sugar coating, to bad your comedy skills are so bad.
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February 02, 2013, 01:22:32 AM
 #72

You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?

I feel weird saying this, but I agree with Jeff. Customers chose to bear risk, and they may be rewarded (or burnt) by that choice. However, you should make the argument that ASIC vendors misrepresented the risk by over-promising. The counter to that is that all vendors, accept BitcoinASIC, have either delivered products or are offering refunds to anyone at any time.

So in the end, the only argument you have is that ASIC vendors made things inconvenient for you (if you were someone that priced risk somewhere between the initial offering and the current state) or that BitcoinASIC took your money and ran.

"You all knew the market was big enough that enough people would be willing to take any option given them, greed blinds after all." - Something is in such demand people are willing to buy it at all costs, isn't that economics 101? Put it differently, given the choice of no pre-sale or pre-sale, the market overwhelming is calling for a presale (this is demonstrated by the fact that they still have orders even after the delay and the risk became evident).
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February 02, 2013, 01:37:40 AM
 #73

Flying Hellfish - STFU

FTFY,

Feel free to ignore me.  

Lol, I actually don't know what to say to this.

Created account about the same time website content is changed - true.
Knows much about gambling and similar websites - true.
Focused on ASIC and especially this thread - true.

STFU, will ya?

Keep trying? Try harder? I don't know but you are pretty far off base my friend.

BTW why would you even think I am this Tom guy?  I haven't defend the old or new bASIC all I said was I hope this was real and that I would watch and wait.  If that makes me Tom then wow wow wow!  FWIW I think bASIC is worse than the other two BUT IF and that's a big if they are new players AND they can prove their claims then I will consider becoming a customer.  Don't mistake that for being a bASIC fan boy.  Hell if the other vendors changed to my personal satisfaction I would consider purchasing their product as well (although I'm sure BFL doesn't want me LOL).
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February 02, 2013, 01:55:26 AM
 #74

You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?

I feel weird saying this, but I agree with Jeff. Customers chose to bear risk, and they may be rewarded (or burnt) by that choice. However, you should make the argument that ASIC vendors misrepresented the risk by over-promising. The counter to that is that all vendors, accept BitcoinASIC, have either delivered products or are offering refunds to anyone at any time.

So in the end, the only argument you have is that ASIC vendors made things inconvenient for you (if you were someone that priced risk somewhere between the initial offering and the current state) or that BitcoinASIC took your money and ran.

"You all knew the market was big enough that enough people would be willing to take any option given them, greed blinds after all." - Something is in such demand people are willing to buy it at all costs, isn't that economics 101? Put it differently, given the choice of no pre-sale or pre-sale, the market overwhelming is calling for a presale (this is demonstrated by the fact that they still have orders even after the delay and the risk became evident).

Economics 101 teaches us that if we have a product that is such demand we can do what ever we like as the seller?  I know of one business model that uses this very very effectively, the drug trade.  Money is a lot like a drug man!

Given the choice of pre-order or no pre-order sure the market demands pre-orders.  Given the choice between full payment pre order and no pre order the market still demands full payment pre order but what if they were given the choice of deposit pre order and full payment pre order, I think the market would choose the deposit method.  Why again did they have to have full payment pre-orders even before a single solitary device was shown to exist working (that's a question for all 3 retail vendors...)?  I know we're past that stage now as Avalon has delivered but the question remains?
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February 02, 2013, 02:01:52 AM
 #75

My bad!

Want to get rid of these I don't drink liquor, bought them with a lot I purchased from an Auction

Each bottle sells for 5 BTC w/ $20 Shipping USA Only (sorry its just too expensive overseas)

These are all quart Bottles and considered high quality liquor

1 x Seagrams Blended Canadian Whiskey
1 x Southern Comfort 100 Proof
1 x Gordons Vodka

PM if interested - Ship the same day

thank you


And, as somebody duly noted in that same thread (still relevant today)...

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Congratulations!
bitcoinbooze.com
is available. Snap it up before someone else does. Just $12.99*
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February 02, 2013, 02:14:00 AM
 #76

IF anyone thinks that FRAUD is a right for any company with a Pre-Order option, then you're either a plain stupid person or have other intentions. Customers take only the risks of product miss-representation and/or delaying the release date indefinitely(until the customer asks for a refund). Otherwise the company that falsely advertise a product which they don't have any intent to finalize or for unknown reasons decides to run off, then its called FRAUD.

This ain't gambling for us to throw up the money and have little expectation, so please stop spreading this stupid idea. Like I said the only risk we had taken was for getting a very different product from which we initially signed on, and/or to have the release date delayed. Sure, there was also the risk to get into some sort of FRAUD scheme but that doesn't make it right and any court from around the world has this kind of precedent in their penal laws. Of course if we'll loose our money remains to be seen, but don't spread stupidity around here saying we can't do anything about it, I mean legally.
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February 02, 2013, 02:15:51 AM
 #77

You all knew the market was big enough that enough people would be willing to take any option given them, greed blinds after all.

Avalon made clear at the outset that they needed pre-orders for 300 units in order for the project to go ahead.  People were begging them to increase the amount of units available in Batch 1 and they refused, which is hardly the hallmark of a greedy company.  Batch 2 orders are only being opened now and those units will be available at $1499 rather than the $1999 which was originally planned for Batch 2.  They've openly stated that pre-order money will be used to build the units.

Tom was obviously dependent on pre-order money for the bASIC project, too - we know that he needed additional funds to complete it when things went wrong even though the project had some investors from the community.

BFL is the only company which has said it had sufficient funds to develop its ASICs without pre-order money.

I seriously doubt that any of the Bitcoin vendors are going to show any meaningful profit from their first runs.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 03:23:25 AM
 #78

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

Even in Texas, many of us can spell when we really try & make use of hired help and spell checkers.

I try to be respectful and informed.
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February 02, 2013, 04:04:26 AM
 #79

You all knew the market was big enough that enough people would be willing to take any option given them, greed blinds after all.

Avalon made clear at the outset that they needed pre-orders for 300 units in order for the project to go ahead.  People were begging them to increase the amount of units available in Batch 1 and they refused, which is hardly the hallmark of a greedy company.  Batch 2 orders are only being opened now and those units will be available at $1499 rather than the $1999 which was originally planned for Batch 2.  They've openly stated that pre-order money will be used to build the units.

Tom was obviously dependent on pre-order money for the bASIC project, too - we know that he needed additional funds to complete it when things went wrong even though the project had some investors from the community.

BFL is the only company which has said it had sufficient funds to develop its ASICs without pre-order money.

I seriously doubt that any of the Bitcoin vendors are going to show any meaningful profit from their first runs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-PVf0FqCx4
Maybe you should consider a career in politics....

BTC:1PCTzvkZUFuUF7DA6aMEVjBUUp35wN5JtF
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February 02, 2013, 04:18:18 AM
 #80

Well that certainly got tidied up.

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CAN-ELECTRIC is here to offer you the Ehasher the next generation Bitcoin mining hardware that offers significant improvements from GPU-based and traditional FPGA based mining rigs and leaves the competition far behind in terms of enterprise level FPGA Hard Copy, PCB fabrication, Device Assembly, Customer Support, as well as our own enterprise level shipping department with in house logistics center that no competitor can hope to match.

Our FPGA Hard Copy process, PCB fab and Electrical unit Assembly takes place ENTIRELY In-House, giving us an incredible advantage over our competitors.

Quote
100 Gh/s    50 Gh/s
          1899.99      $999.99


https://www.bitcoinasic.net/

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February 02, 2013, 04:18:58 AM
 #81

I still hope Tom will come clean and describe what exactly happened over the past 4 months to have to the project end up like this in the end.  At this point, it seems bASIC is out of the game and talking about it likely won't preserve any competitive advantage anymore.
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February 02, 2013, 04:51:30 AM
 #82

Well that certainly got tidied up.

Quote
CAN-ELECTRIC is here to offer you the Ehasher the next generation Bitcoin mining hardware that offers significant improvements from GPU-based and traditional FPGA based mining rigs and leaves the competition far behind in terms of enterprise level FPGA Hard Copy, PCB fabrication, Device Assembly, Customer Support, as well as our own enterprise level shipping department with in house logistics center that no competitor can hope to match.

Our FPGA Hard Copy process, PCB fab and Electrical unit Assembly takes place ENTIRELY In-House, giving us an incredible advantage over our competitors.

Quote
100 Gh/s    50 Gh/s
          1899.99      $999.99


https://www.bitcoinasic.net/


I like their two products already:



I'm going get the one on the right.

Now let me ask you this. What possibly could bitconasic bring to the table that CAN-ELECTRIC couldn't do without? Surely it wasn't the dwindling customer base. They would have done a helluva lot better as a standalone entity. But no, they opted for the excess baggage.

At least they got half the new naming right--CAN.

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February 02, 2013, 04:57:59 AM
 #83

Quote
Ayinda 1 city- Block G, No.21 Erbil/Iraq
P: +964 750 344 6566
Is this a "Canadian" company?
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February 02, 2013, 05:00:09 AM
 #84

The only Can Electric I can find is this company, whose physical address is listed as Iraq.  

http://www.canelectric.ca/index.php/contact-us

It's going to take a lot more than a claim on the old bASIC website to convince me that a reputable company has bought Tom out and is offering new products.  Not buying it until they post the kind of contact details which would allow one to ring the main switchboard of the company on the number in the phone book and get put through to a specific person in a specific division.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 05:24:30 AM
 #85

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!
 

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?


More PR Genius...hollow threats of lawsuits to your customers...priceless...lol

God i hope it is true...BFL and your style are yesterday's news... whether it is true or not at some stage a real company is going to get involved and you PR Insights will be heard no more... Cheesy



OBJECT NOT FOUND
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February 02, 2013, 05:25:25 AM
 #86


They need to reveal who the parent company is...Lets hope it is real  Undecided

Technically they have.  But the only Can Electric people can find is a Canadian electricity company whose physical address is in Iraq.  I certainly can't find any "huge electronics corporation" by that name.  No-one's going to buy it without employee names and proper contact numbers.  Corporate employees are not anonymous.  You should be able to phone Can-Electric and ask to speak to Joe in the technology division.

They should be linking back to the parent company's website and doing everything possible to establish their bona fides.  So far, all they're doing is throwing up huge red flags of the kind which make people wonder if Tom himself is posting all this shit in an attempt to rebrand the project without people knowing he's involved.

Edit.  They are, indeed, claiming to be the Canadian electricity company (not "huge electronics corporation") based in Iraq.

https://www.bitcoinasic.net/index.php?route=information/contact

HardCopy is apparently a trademark of Altera and their fabrication is done by TSMC which does own TSMC Design Technology Canada but if you were associated with TSMC you'd be shouting it from the rooftops and not giving some obscure Iranian contact address and phone number.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 05:28:39 AM
 #87

What the f*&$ Shocked this is the strangest thing I've ever been tangentially related to. Who has my ~250 BTC and who the h#$% is Can-Electric and if it is anywhere near for real, will my so-called "pre-order" be honored? I swear this is starting to feel like a strange novel with me as one of the characters.
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February 02, 2013, 05:46:48 AM
 #88

Hello, everybody. I'm Boi, but you can call me Bo. I'm am the new PR guy at Can Electric. We have graet things in th work, with a few serprices to bout. so Stay tuned!

regards,,

Bo

SP: To prove me reel, here an funy image of my cat slepping.



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February 02, 2013, 05:50:49 AM
 #89

^ Finally! At least they now have somebody to maintain the sanity. You rock, Bo!
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February 02, 2013, 05:52:57 AM
 #90

Quote from: Boi qaaf
This is Bruno (will confirm in a sec by replying to post). I created this account mainly for the sole purpose as a character to interact in this game: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=121306.0

If I don't get out ASAP, I will fire up Nikki the Bitch and raise all kinds of hell provided, of course, theymos didn't permanently ban her (which I think he did).  

~Bruno~

Cute gimmick Phinn.


The Can Electric ToS lists NY as the relevant jurisdiction - which is kind of curious for a Canadian company based in Iraq.  It's not so curious if this is some bullshit move to try make people think someone new is in charge of bASIC, though.

Why isn't the Canadian phone number for the real Can Electric listed on the site?  Are they just hoping that no-one's going to phone the Iraq number?

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 07:09:00 AM
 #91

Well if ths was real and my BTC refund money could be reapplied to getting one of these(for damn sure)... I would take that offer =)

GenTarkin's MOD Kncminer Titan custom firmware! v1.0.4! <--- CLICK HERE
Donations: bitcoin- 1Px71mWNQNKW19xuARqrmnbcem1dXqJ3At || litecoin- LYXrLis3ik6TRn8tdvzAyJ264DRvwYVeEw
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February 02, 2013, 07:11:08 AM
 #92

More info from:
http://www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/electric-contractors/can-electric-ltd-in-edmonton-ab-151126

BBB file opened: 29/09/2008
Business started: 01/03/2007

Licensing
This company is in an industry that may require licensing, bonding or registration in order to lawfully do business. BBB encourages you to check with the appropriate agency to be certain any requirements are currently being met.

Type of Entity
Limited

Contact Information
Principal: Ari Asmar (Owner)

Number of Employees
3

Business Category
Electric Contractors, Contractors - Electrical (Industrial/Commercial)



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February 02, 2013, 07:15:47 AM
 #93

More info from:
http://www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/electric-contractors/can-electric-ltd-in-edmonton-ab-151126

BBB file opened: 29/09/2008
Business started: 01/03/2007

Licensing
This company is in an industry that may require licensing, bonding or registration in order to lawfully do business. BBB encourages you to check with the appropriate agency to be certain any requirements are currently being met.

Type of Entity
Limited

Contact Information
Principal: Ari Asmar (Owner)

Number of Employees
3

Business Category
Electric Contractors, Contractors - Electrical (Industrial/Commercial)


Bwahahaha.  "Huge corporate electronics manufacturer", indeed.


All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 07:41:08 AM
 #94

Fuck you guys.... I'm in...
This is a  Once Twice Third opportunity of a lifetime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pEY17qbdGqE#t=19s


Thank F**

Just managed to get my order in before the rush........

BTC:1PCTzvkZUFuUF7DA6aMEVjBUUp35wN5JtF
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February 02, 2013, 07:58:13 AM
 #95

Fuck you guys.... I'm in...
This is a  Once Twice Third opportunity of a lifetime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pEY17qbdGqE#t=19s


Thank F**

Just managed to get my order in before the rush........


Of course they're weightlesss.  Vapourware weighs nothing.   Grin

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 08:31:22 AM
 #96


Of course they're weightlesss.  Vapourware weighs nothing.   Grin

++

...i loled & i loled Cheesy

OBJECT NOT FOUND
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February 02, 2013, 02:35:58 PM
 #97

Considering they haven't fixed the pricing for the 100GH beast I bought 2!!!  Why spend 3800 when you can get them for 2140?!!!?  Ha HA suckers. Wink

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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February 02, 2013, 04:04:39 PM
 #98

Great lords of thunder!  What!??? I thought they were NOT going to ask for any pre-orders till a YouTube video of a hashig rig was released.

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February 02, 2013, 04:10:36 PM
 #99

Well if ths was real and my BTC refund money could be reapplied to getting one of these(for damn sure)... I would take that offer =)

At this point I'll believe anything, even if it involves Can-Electric Asain Overlords. A Strange Brew indeed.


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February 02, 2013, 05:37:51 PM
 #100

Great lords of thunder!  What!??? I thought they were NOT going to ask for any pre-orders till a YouTube video of a hashig rig was released.

The Bitcoin Foundation already released a video of their Avalon hashing away...

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February 02, 2013, 05:48:03 PM
 #101

Well if ths was real and my BTC refund money could be reapplied to getting one of these(for damn sure)... I would take that offer =)

At this point I'll believe anything, even if it involves Can-Electric Asain Overlords. A Strange Brew indeed.

Asian-Canadians residing in Iraq but under the jurisdiction of New York law? Me gusta.
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February 02, 2013, 05:58:39 PM
 #102

Quote from: Boi qaaf
This is Bruno (will confirm in a sec by replying to post). I created this account mainly for the sole purpose as a character to interact in this game: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=121306.0

If I don't get out ASAP, I will fire up Nikki the Bitch and raise all kinds of hell provided, of course, theymos didn't permanently ban her (which I think he did).  

~Bruno~

Cute gimmick Phinn.

The Can Electric ToS lists NY as the relevant jurisdiction - which is kind of curious for a Canadian company based in Iraq.  It's not so curious if this is some bullshit move to try make people think someone new is in charge of bASIC, though.

Why isn't the Canadian phone number for the real Can Electric listed on the site?  Are they just hoping that no-one's going to phone the Iraq number?

Did somebody hack one of my other accounts? I hope Al is okay.  Grin
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February 02, 2013, 06:56:21 PM
 #103

Quote
Ayinda 1 city- Block G, No.21 Erbil/Iraq
P: +964 750 344 6566
Is this a "Canadian" company?

The Iraq number is a mobile phone number (I guess prepaid) from KorekTel Mobile

BTC donations always welcome: 1JakeTriwbahMYp1rSfJbTn7Afd1w62p2q
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February 02, 2013, 07:14:48 PM
 #104

Quote
Ayinda 1 city- Block G, No.21 Erbil/Iraq
P: +964 750 344 6566
Is this a "Canadian" company?

The Iraq number is a mobile phone number (I guess prepaid) from KorekTel Mobile

Iraqi-Asian-Canadian-NewYork Company with an official workforce of 2 with 1 million in pre-sales already.....look all they are missing is the kidnapped Canadian  princess that we have to rescue from the castle who is secretly working for the CIA while infiltrating Al-Cadia posted to Iraq

EDIT: Sorry for got to add running off a pre-paid mobile phone based out of the state of QATAR on the ARabic peninsula...I think the Israelis & MOSAD are involed in here somewhere

Bitcoin, you couldnt make shit this good up .... Cheesy ......lol .... Cry

OBJECT NOT FOUND
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February 02, 2013, 09:00:43 PM
 #105

Quote
Ayinda 1 city- Block G, No.21 Erbil/Iraq
P: +964 750 344 6566
Is this a "Canadian" company?

The Iraq number is a mobile phone number (I guess prepaid) from KorekTel Mobile

1-800-Al-Cadia...  And let me guess their ASIC Miners are DA BOMB

OBJECT NOT FOUND
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February 02, 2013, 09:01:36 PM
 #106


Iraqi-Asian-Canadian-NewYork Company with an official workforce of 2 with 1 million in pre-sales already.....look all they are missing is the kidnapped Canadian  princess that we have to rescue from the castle who is secretly working for the CIA while infiltrating Al-Cadia posted to Iraq

Bitcoin, you couldnt make shit this good up .... Cheesy ......lol .... Cry

And yet you just know that someone is going to place a real order with them in spite of all the red flags "just in case" they're legitimate.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 09:07:24 PM
 #107

It seems the bloke was immigrant of the year 2011, or something.  google his name, he seems to know his hivolt power...

anyway, the question that is burning me up is Tom never developed his own asic hashing core, he licensed it from somewhere else. So what has can-electric actually bought? The rights to use someone else's core? why not just ask that company themselves?

I just don't get it.

Also does anyone remember Tom vanishing to Canada around Nov time?
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February 02, 2013, 09:17:41 PM
 #108

It seems the bloke was immigrant of the year 2011, or something.  google his name, he seems to know his hivolt power...

anyway, the question that is burning me up is Tom never developed his own asic hashing core, he licensed it from somewhere else. So what has can-electric actually bought? The rights to use someone else's core? why not just ask that company themselves?

I just don't get it.

Also does anyone remember Tom vanishing to Canada around Nov time?

The problem is that nothing about Can Electric indicates that they have any experience in the IT field - and the revised BitcoinASIC site claims that they do and that they can do all sorts of hardware stuff in-house.  Their claims are so outrageous that I doubt anyone's even going to make a phone call to Iraq, although someone might email the real Can Electric tomorrow.

Re-branding bASIC would be quite a challenge anyway but it definitely can't be done when everything connected with that re-branding so far looks dodgy as hell to the extent that people aren't even sure this isn't Tom using the name of an obscure company without their knowledge.

Email sent to Can Electric using the email address on the actual Can Electric website.

Does anyone remember Tom vanishing to Iraq around November?  Although the real Can Electric site gives both a Canadian phone number and an Iraqi one, only the Iraqi number is given in the "Contact US" section of the bitcoinASIC site.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 09:53:53 PM
 #109


The problem is that nothing about Can Electric indicates that they have any experience in the IT field - and the revised BitcoinASIC site claims that they do and that they can do all sorts of hardware stuff in-house.  Their claims are so outrageous that I doubt anyone's even going to make a phone call to Iraq, although someone might email the real Can Electric tomorrow.


Thats kinda what I was hinting at, the bloke seems to have no experience with micro electronics, but is quite accountable and seems to publicly know about hivolt (not that it has that much to do with bitcoin) - He has a reputation I would imagine he would want to protect.  So I assume he did not know what he was getting into, or Tom approached him back in November.

The updates to the site would imply that he intends to make good on the promise of delivering 45nm FPGA's.  I have no problem phoning Iraq.  I will probably try Canada first though, he doesn't look like he would be a hard man to track down.

I really want to know what this bloke has or thinks he has bought...  Why is Toms licensed ASIC SHA core any better than Bitfury (V. from birfury is a genius...) esp. when bitfury can provide an excellent FPGA core, rather than having to reshovel an ip asic design. it makes no sense.
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February 02, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
 #110


The updates to the site would imply that he intends to make good on the promise of delivering 45nm FPGA's. 

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I read that HardCopy is trademarked by Altera and that they use TSMC for fabrication - and that TSMC doesn't even do 45nm. 

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 02, 2013, 10:08:59 PM
 #111


The updates to the site would imply that he intends to make good on the promise of delivering 45nm FPGA's. 

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I read that HardCopy is trademarked by Altera and that they use TSMC for fabrication - and that TSMC doesn't even do 45nm. 

Interesting.  I know very little about Altera, the Xilinx version is called easypath. Don't BFL use stratix? (altera 45nm)... so could a single do 2+gh/s? 
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February 02, 2013, 10:26:26 PM
 #112


The updates to the site would imply that he intends to make good on the promise of delivering 45nm FPGA's.  

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I read that HardCopy is trademarked by Altera and that they use TSMC for fabrication - and that TSMC doesn't even do 45nm.  

Interesting.  I know very little about Altera, the Xilinx version is called easypath. Don't BFL use stratix? (altera 45nm)... so could a single do 2+gh/s?  

Altera likely uses different fabs for different products.

It looks like Ari Asmar has been back living in Iraq since 2011, based on his FB page.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 03, 2013, 05:52:25 PM
 #113


The updates to the site would imply that he intends to make good on the promise of delivering 45nm FPGA's.  

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I read that HardCopy is trademarked by Altera and that they use TSMC for fabrication - and that TSMC doesn't even do 45nm.  

Interesting.  I know very little about Altera, the Xilinx version is called easypath. Don't BFL use stratix? (altera 45nm)... so could a single do 2+gh/s?  

Altera likely uses different fabs for different products.

It looks like Ari Asmar has been back living in Iraq since 2011, based on his FB page.

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/canadas-top-25-immigrants-old/canada-has-spoken-top-25-immigrants-of-2011

Quote
This year’s awards program received more than 500 nominations over a two-month period, from which 75 finalists were shortlisted by a panel of Canadian Immigrant magazine judges. The awards program was also supported by the Toronto Star, Metro and Sing Tao.

Quote
Ari Asmar (Edmonton, Alberta/Iraq) is a master electrician. Although he’s been in Canada less than 10 years, he devotes lots of time to volunteering in his community, such as with a YMCA newcomers program.

http://www.thestar.com/sponsored_sections/2011/06/30/these_15_other_winners_are_making_their_mark_from_coast_to_coast.html

Quote
As a member of a large family of Kurdish refugees — six siblings and his parents — Ari Asmar knows a bit about pitching in, sharing and working hard.

The master electrician has been in Canada eight years and is proud of the company he started from scratch: Can Electric Ltd.

He’s even prouder of the countless hours he’s dedicated as a volunteer in his new country: helping with the YMCA’s newcomers program, mentoring young tradespeople and working with Amnesty International and the Abbotsfield Youth Project, which helps children of parents with drug issues.

Asmar is also involved in green technologies — participating in solar and wind energy seminars and promoting green energy through his work as an electrical contractor.

He says his best advice for immigrants is to work hard and don’t stop giving. “This is a great country and there’s lots of opportunities for everyone,” he says. “I know this … my entire family is so happy to be here.”

He came to Canada, got settled, and then sponsored his parents, brothers and sisters. “My first night here, I didn’t have any money, I didn’t know anybody and I stayed in a shelter,” he says. “But that didn’t matter. I was just excited to be in Canada and I was starting something new.”

http://www.canelectric.ca/

Quote
Domain name: canelectric.ca
Domain status: registered
Creation date: 2009/02/28
Expiry date: 2014/02/28
Updated date: 2013/01/18

Registrar:
Name: Go Daddy Domains Canada, Inc
Number: 2316042

Name servers:
dns1.irangiga.com
dns2.irangiga.com
ns1-maverick.nswebhost.com
ns2-maverick.nswebhost.com

% WHOIS look-up made at 2013-02-03 17:59:27 (GMT)
%
% Use of CIRA's WHOIS service is governed by the Terms of Use in its Legal
% Notice, available at http://www.cira.ca/legal-notice/?lang=en
%
% (c) 2013 Canadian Internet Registration Authority, (http://www.cira.ca/)
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February 03, 2013, 06:08:10 PM
 #114

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/canadas-top-25-immigrants/canadas-top-25-immigrants-2011/ari-asmar

I suggest somebody contacting Ari to see if he's really behind the re-branding of Tom's company. This would explain away the grammatical errors we've all been making light of, including myself.
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February 03, 2013, 06:37:45 PM
 #115

( ) seems legit

(x) I hope no one is buying these things. We don't need any more bitcoiners scammed...

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February 03, 2013, 07:38:41 PM
 #116

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/canadas-top-25-immigrants/canadas-top-25-immigrants-2011/ari-asmar

I suggest somebody contacting Ari to see if he's really behind the re-branding of Tom's company. This would explain away the grammatical errors we've all been making light of, including myself.

I've already emailed the legitimate Can Electric.  All of Ari's FB posts since late 2011 have been made from Iraq.  If I don't get an email response within a couple of days I'll message him on the number listed on the real Can Electric site (which is one number different than the one on the bASIC site) and/or on FB.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 04, 2013, 12:13:36 AM
 #117

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/canadas-top-25-immigrants/canadas-top-25-immigrants-2011/ari-asmar

I suggest somebody contacting Ari to see if he's really behind the re-branding of Tom's company. This would explain away the grammatical errors we've all been making light of, including myself.

I've already emailed the legitimate Can Electric.  All of Ari's FB posts since late 2011 have been made from Iraq.  If I don't get an email response within a couple of days I'll message him on the number listed on the real Can Electric site (which is one number different than the one on the bASIC site) and/or on FB.

Odd! One number off. Either an easily made error, or...
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February 04, 2013, 01:48:34 AM
 #118

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/canadas-top-25-immigrants/canadas-top-25-immigrants-2011/ari-asmar

I suggest somebody contacting Ari to see if he's really behind the re-branding of Tom's company. This would explain away the grammatical errors we've all been making light of, including myself.

I've already emailed the legitimate Can Electric.  All of Ari's FB posts since late 2011 have been made from Iraq.  If I don't get an email response within a couple of days I'll message him on the number listed on the real Can Electric site (which is one number different than the one on the bASIC site) and/or on FB.

Odd! One number off. Either an easily made error, or...

Tradecraft...lol

Just what we need another halfbaked scheme/scam with no backing...no experience...no idea !!


OBJECT NOT FOUND
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February 04, 2013, 05:23:56 AM
 #119

So to resume

Another company bought bAsics and they were able to beat all the competitors by bringing a more powefull product than other on market,  in only some days:

https://www.bitcoinasic.net/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=6    says

Delivery Information
We ship within 2-3 days of your order

So its not preorder but now order supposely sent in 2 or 3 days, it will be fast to know then if real or not, does nobody want to risk 600 for a 50 giga Ehasher?  Grin

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February 04, 2013, 07:53:20 AM
 #120

My latest take. Ari is probably an alright guy--until he messes with the website after a few drinks. Alcohol & Silicon Iquals Control.
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February 04, 2013, 08:22:52 AM
 #121

Does anyone know if it's even possible for hard copies of FPGAs to get that sort of performance? Wouldn't Avalon have done that if it would have worked?
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February 04, 2013, 10:14:30 AM
 #122

Does anyone know if it's even possible for hard copies of FPGAs to get that sort of performance? Wouldn't Avalon have done that if it would have worked?

Looks like HardCopy produces FPGA prototypes as part of the ASIC design process.

Quote
The methodology you use to create HardCopy ASICs allows you to seamlessly prototype your system with Stratix® IV FPGAs and completely prepare your system for production, prior to ASIC design handoff. Altera's HardCopy Design Center uses a proven turnkey process to implement low-cost, low-power, functionally-equivalent, pin-compatible HardCopy IV devices. This methodology is more than just a fast ASIC development methodology, it is the ultimate system development methodology.

http://www.altera.com/devices/asic/hardcopy-asics/hardcopy-iv/hciv-index.jsp

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 04, 2013, 10:21:33 AM
 #123

I think it is irrelevant what Altera can deliver, hell is going to freeze over before forum members place money with anything connected with Tom.

BTC:1PCTzvkZUFuUF7DA6aMEVjBUUp35wN5JtF
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February 04, 2013, 11:01:08 AM
 #124

I think it is irrelevant what Altera can deliver, hell is going to freeze over before forum members place money with anything connected with Tom.

Until when they decide to accept credit card.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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February 05, 2013, 01:19:04 AM
 #125

I think it is irrelevant what Altera can deliver, hell is going to freeze over before forum members place money with anything connected with Tom.


Have you not noticed the "hope this is real" posts?  While I don't think this project can be effectively re-branded before BFL delivers even if there genuinely are new owners (and I'm yet to be convinced that there are), there are definitely still people hoping to buy cheap next generation mining units ASAP.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 05, 2013, 01:32:32 AM
 #126

Apparently a "huge corporate electronics manufacturer" has resorted to libel and is now attacking BFL, bASIC, and Avalon—all at once. And to add to the word power, look at their excellent spelling!

  • anyway
  • devision
  • givin
  • its
  • saleries
  • setup
  • months
  • supossid
  • disapation
  • longetivity
  • cleaver
  • none sense
  • un revealed
  • conman

Obviously the same style of writing we've seen under the "old" management. 

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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February 05, 2013, 02:25:23 AM
 #127

Apparently a "huge corporate electronics manufacturer" has resorted to libel and is now attacking BFL, bASIC, and Avalon—all at once. And to add to the word power, look at their excellent spelling!

  • anyway
  • devision
  • givin
  • its
  • saleries
  • setup
  • months
  • supossid
  • disapation
  • longetivity
  • cleaver
  • none sense
  • un revealed
  • conman

Obviously the same style of writing we've seen under the "old" management when drunk

FTFY!
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February 05, 2013, 02:49:53 AM
 #128

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/immigrant-stories/top-25-winners/time-to-celebrate-top-25-canadian-immigrants-of-2011/attachment/vancouver-top-25



Ari Asman is the forth from left in white outfit.

At least the person exist. But, the question is, is somebody simply using his name representing him?



The phone number is correct.
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February 05, 2013, 03:37:57 AM
 #129

It all makes sense to me now...



Ari Asman is our new Asain Overlord.

Hopefully he'll deliver on bASIC/Ehasher

and/or

process BTC refunds.
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February 05, 2013, 07:18:06 AM
 #130

It all makes sense to me now...



Ari Asman is our new Asain Overlord.

Hopefully he'll deliver on bASIC/Ehasher

and/or

process BTC refunds.

I am going to place an order TODAY !!!

What we need in NerdVille is more ASSMAN's

So I am going to give him my support because (even though I am a Titsman) we need more Assman's in ASIC & BTC ...lol Cheesy

OBJECT NOT FOUND
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February 05, 2013, 07:00:51 PM
 #131

It all makes sense to me now...



Ari Asman is our new Asain Overlord.

Hopefully he'll deliver on bASIC/Ehasher

and/or

process BTC refunds.

I am going to place an order TODAY !!!

What we need in NerdVille is more ASSMAN's

So I am going to give him my support because (even though I am a Titsman) we need more Assman's in ASIC & BTC ...lol Cheesy

You just had to go there, didn't you?



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February 06, 2013, 05:52:59 AM
 #132

I emailed the website Can-electric and got a reply of the real ARI

from:    info@canelectric.ca
to:    <xxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>
date:    6 février 2013 10:59
subject:    RE: Questions

Hi Dear

this is fraud and we as can Electric have nothing to do with this website and their product
and we don't know who is doing this fraud

regards
Ari


I think we can say now with is again another tom drunk story and he try to get more money... Artist scammer...

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February 06, 2013, 06:02:27 AM
 #133



The phone number is correct.

Look again Phinn.  The Iraqi phone number for the real Can Electric is +964 750 344 6565.  The number on the revamped bASIC site is +964 750 344 6566.  The real Can Electric doesn't hyphenate the company name, either.

This actually crosses the line from mere incompetence into outright fraud and Ari Asmar should be contacting Tom via lawyers with a "please explain".

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 06, 2013, 06:03:59 AM
 #134



The phone number is correct.

Look again Phinn.  The Iraqi phone number for the real Can Electric is +964 750 344 6565.  The number on the revamped bASIC site is +964 750 344 6566.  The real Can Electric doesn't hyphenate the company name, either.

This actually crosses the line from mere incompetence into outright fraud and Ari Asmar should be contacting Tom via lawyers with a "please explain".


According the email from Ari, he dont know the name of tom. Maybe someone can let him to know the name of tom. I dont know it myself or I would have provided it to them already.

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February 06, 2013, 06:14:20 AM
 #135

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 06, 2013, 06:20:22 AM
 #136

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

Crypto-trade.com : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.0
https://koddos.com and http://kovpslayer.com.  "Bitcointalkdiscount" to get 10% discount recurring.
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February 06, 2013, 06:37:48 AM
 #137

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 06, 2013, 07:44:56 AM
 #138

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

About the vanity plate i found this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70113.0

Crypto-trade.com : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.0
https://koddos.com and http://kovpslayer.com.  "Bitcointalkdiscount" to get 10% discount recurring.
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February 06, 2013, 08:23:33 AM
 #139

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

About the vanity plate i found this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70113.0

Saved: http://i48.tinypic.com/20gbip2.jpg

Send all your money here: 1CRTegc4fdeJYwTPGYTuGq3nFBbgvHc23c
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February 06, 2013, 09:37:43 AM
 #140

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

Fulton is significantly larger (so more commercial) than Hannibal (which is more rural). So, he probably worked in Fulton and just lives in/near Hannibal where his PO Box was located.

I'm curious as to how fast authorities will respond if we aggregate our complaints and focus them at the proper authorities. Is there any one thread yet where we can do this - i.e. focus & coordinate a collective response? or Has anyone taken action to contact any authorities for themselves yet?

If he would just update people on progress of the refunds, I think he could quell a lot, if not all, of the build up to a serious legal situation.

||bit
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February 06, 2013, 10:02:15 AM
 #141

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

Fulton is significantly larger (so more commercial) than Hannibal (which is more rural). So, he probably worked in Fulton and just lives in/near Hannibal where his PO Box was located.

I'm curious as to how fast authorities will respond if we aggregate our complaints and focus them at the proper authorities. Is there any one thread yet where we can do this - i.e. focus & coordinate a collective response? or Has anyone taken action to contact any authorities for themselves yet?

||bit

I informed the real Ari about this thread and the whole story, I guess he will made some justice action too. Anyway if this guy ( thomas Van Riper seem his real identity, google will give you same head than the picture with license plate) was frauding using my name company I wont let this happend without sentence... Specially he's american also easy to reach...real name, real face, he have a shop physical...Well I'm just sad for ppl who paid with BTC as they will be never refund and it will be hard to proof anything with BTC as ever...

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February 06, 2013, 10:03:39 AM
 #142

https://sites.google.com/site/votevanriper/home/elect-thomas-van-riper-sgo-secretary

Quote
I am now in my second semester as a full time liberal arts Psych major at CCC, my dream career is to be in a position to help people - specifically youth, in the field of Substance Abuse Counseling.
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February 06, 2013, 10:26:31 AM
 #143

https://sites.google.com/site/votevanriper/home/elect-thomas-van-riper-sgo-secretary

Quote
I am now in my second semester as a full time liberal arts Psych major at CCC, my dream career is to be in a position to help people - specifically youth, in the field of Substance Abuse Counseling.


Seem Thomas Van Riper is his real name, this is now confirmed. Free for Ari or customers of bAsic scammed to continu the process... Anyway this scam case will be more to easy to fix than some others...Good luck for people scammed in BTC to recover their funds (I never ordered from bAsic)

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February 06, 2013, 10:37:30 AM
 #144

With no other known source of income, it looks like them bitcoins Tom has is going to go toward food to feed 6 hungry individuals, rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, did I mention food?, car payment(s), groceries, clothing for growing children, and more food.

During the course of being funny, above, I just realized something. For him to cash out any significant coins, he may have to go through a known clearinghouse. Something to think about.
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February 06, 2013, 10:44:38 AM
 #145



I believe this picture of Cablepair / Thomas Van Riper was taken at this location.

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?

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February 06, 2013, 10:45:54 AM
 #146

so what your gonna do?
did actually ever anything happen with this pirate guy?
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February 06, 2013, 11:38:52 AM
 #147

so what your gonna do?

Dunno, maybe my Horrible Horrendous Terrible Tremendous twin can twist his cable Tongue


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February 06, 2013, 01:21:38 PM
 #148

With no other known source of income, it looks like them bitcoins Tom has is going to go toward food to feed 6 hungry individuals, rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, did I mention food?, car payment(s), groceries, clothing for growing children, and more food.

During the course of being funny, above, I just realized something. For him to cash out any significant coins, he may have to go through a known clearinghouse. Something to think about.

Think harder. Bitcoins are easy to launder.

Those who cause problems for others also cause problems for themselves.
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February 06, 2013, 01:44:03 PM
 #149

With no other known source of income, it looks like them bitcoins Tom has is going to go toward food to feed 6 hungry individuals, rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, did I mention food?, car payment(s), groceries, clothing for growing children, and more food.

During the course of being funny, above, I just realized something. For him to cash out any significant coins, he may have to go through a known clearinghouse. Something to think about.

Think harder. Bitcoins are easy to launder.

Laundering is easy. Protecting your family is more difficult. His whole family is easily uncovered using Google and Facebook. Though his family is not poor, Tom seems to prefer renting low profile housing and has moved frequently over the years.

I can see clearly now:

Tom: "Wait, the electric utility bill is included in the monthly rent? I'll take it! When can I move in?"

A couple of months later, Landlord says: "I'm sorry, but you have been using a lot more electricity than my prior tenants; I'm sending you a bill for what you owe me".

The next day, Tom is gone!

ROFL

BTC.sx - Leveraged Bitcoin Trading. Simply use Bitcoin to take advantage of a rising or falling Bitcoin price.
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February 06, 2013, 07:36:47 PM
 #150

New email from Ari.  I told him we were trying to collate as much information about Tom as possible and have sent him a link to what we already have.

Quote
thanks xxxxxxxx

if you could send me his contact I will deal with it

regards
Ari

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 06, 2013, 07:47:45 PM
 #151

New email from Ari.  I told him we were trying to collate as much information about Tom as possible and have sent him a link to what we already have.

Quote
thanks xxxxxxxx

if you could send me his contact I will deal with it

regards
Ari

LOL WTF?! whats that supposed to mean!?

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February 06, 2013, 07:49:48 PM
 #152

New email from Ari.  I told him we were trying to collate as much information about Tom as possible and have sent him a link to what we already have.

Quote
thanks xxxxxxxx

if you could send me his contact I will deal with it

regards
Ari

LOL WTF?! whats that supposed to mean!?

He's going to kill him.

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February 06, 2013, 07:53:04 PM
 #153

He's going to kill him.

MY my, this escalated quickly lol.  Cheesy

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February 06, 2013, 07:53:37 PM
 #154

New email from Ari.  I told him we were trying to collate as much information about Tom as possible and have sent him a link to what we already have.

Quote
thanks xxxxxxxx

if you could send me his contact I will deal with it

regards
Ari

LOL WTF?! whats that supposed to mean!?

Iranian Ninjas.
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February 06, 2013, 08:50:34 PM
 #155

New theory: Tom + Ari are the same person!  Shocked Shocked Shocked

Tips? 1crazy8pMqgwJ7tX7ZPZmyPwFbc6xZKM9
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February 06, 2013, 09:03:08 PM
 #156

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?

I can confirm the zip code, but that's for the whole town Fulton.

From NY DMV and zip code checks out: 13069


Vehicle Plate Number:      BITCOIN
Make of Vehicle:      CHEVR
Model Year of Vehicle:      2005

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February 06, 2013, 09:06:30 PM
 #157

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?

I can confirm the zip code, but that's for the whole town Fulton.

From NY DMV and zip code checks out: 13069


Vehicle Plate Number:      BITCOIN
Make of Vehicle:      CHEVR
Model Year of Vehicle:      2005



He got the licence plate in March last year.  He was still using the Fulton Street address for his PC repair business late last year but the website for that business is now gone.  It's still a reasonable starting point for lawyers, though.

Quote
New theory: Tom + Ari are the same person!

It would be funnier if Tom and Sonny were the same person.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 06, 2013, 09:30:59 PM
 #158

How do people think they can totally get away with scamming a bunch of people with vast computer knowledge unless they are single and willing to leave the country...quickly.

I mean this community is easy to scam because of greed, but once you have the loot you need to skeedaddle.

Hell hath no fury like a nerd with internet access...
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February 06, 2013, 09:35:19 PM
 #159

How do people think they can totally get away with scamming a bunch of people with vast computer knowledge unless they are single and willing to leave the country...quickly.

I mean this community is easy to scam because of greed, but once you have the loot you need to skeedaddle.

Hell hath no fury like a nerd with internet access...

Well it's not like any of those who have successfully scammed the community so far have had to go into hiding...

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 06, 2013, 09:47:14 PM
 #160

I'm sure there are secret underground bunkers all over the world where Trendon Shavers, Bruce Wagner, Tom Williams, Zhou Tong, Amir Taaki and Co. sit around scared witless of the mighty internet nerds revenge.

For, verily, it shalt come to pass in the days of the digit-age, that HE shalt send his virtualous minions and exact revenge upon the evil hearted. And HE shalt cry out "Beware, evildoers, that art now in my domain! My name is LEGION, for we are many. Let us send forth the spike!" and there shalt be wailing and the gnashing of teeth heard all across the lands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyuiQQfS4_o
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February 06, 2013, 09:53:50 PM
 #161

I'm sure there are secret underground bunkers all over the world where Trendon Shavers, Bruce Wagner, Tom Williams, Zhou Tong, Amir Taaki and Co. sit around scared witless of the mighty internet nerds revenge.

Zhou's so scared that you can find out his residential address and how many shares he owns in his new company from an ASIC search on NameTerrific.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 06, 2013, 10:43:23 PM
 #162

How do people think they can totally get away with scamming a bunch of people with vast computer knowledge unless they are single and willing to leave the country...quickly.

I mean this community is easy to scam because of greed, but once you have the loot you need to skeedaddle.

Hell hath no fury like a nerd with internet access...
They get doxxed, but then nothing happens afterward.  If people actually started suing these people, then maybe they'd skeedaddle more quickly.  As it is, it seems like a scammer hardly has to worry.
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February 06, 2013, 10:48:11 PM
 #163

Yeah true enough. I guess I assumed people were following through...silly me.
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February 06, 2013, 11:34:12 PM
 #164

Yeah true enough. I guess I assumed people were following through...silly me.

Here comes the retribution for stealing ~50-100k BTC STyle ??

"Youre a scammer"

WOAH!!...ohh the humanity....its worse than Hitler....

...ho humm...Easy targets Cheesy


OBJECT NOT FOUND
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February 06, 2013, 11:48:05 PM
 #165

Yeah true enough. I guess I assumed people were following through...silly me.

Here comes the retribution for stealing ~50-100k BTC STyle ??

"Youre a scammer"

WOAH!!...ohh the humanity....its worse than Hitler....

...ho humm...Easy targets Cheesy


The only known scammer that didn't suffer such humiliation was Tom Williams.
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February 06, 2013, 11:51:47 PM
 #166

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

Fulton is significantly larger (so more commercial) than Hannibal (which is more rural). So, he probably worked in Fulton and just lives in/near Hannibal where his PO Box was located.

I'm curious as to how fast authorities will respond if we aggregate our complaints and focus them at the proper authorities. Is there any one thread yet where we can do this - i.e. focus & coordinate a collective response? or Has anyone taken action to contact any authorities for themselves yet?

||bit

I informed the real Ari about this thread and the whole story, I guess he will made some justice action too. Anyway if this guy ( thomas Van Riper seem his real identity, google will give you same head than the picture with license plate) was frauding using my name company I wont let this happend without sentence... Specially he's american also easy to reach...real name, real face, he have a shop physical...Well I'm just sad for ppl who paid with BTC as they will be never refund and it will be hard to proof anything with BTC as ever...

It isn't too hard to prove BTC payment. If you couldn't prove it with the blockchain. There is an email about the purchase, and the website still shows it (screenshot the order while you can). Further, at least in my case, he is in dialogue that the payment was received. Open/Shut case on payment. The only thing now is to actually get refunded.

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February 06, 2013, 11:54:41 PM
 #167

https://sites.google.com/site/votevanriper/home/elect-thomas-van-riper-sgo-secretary

Quote
I am now in my second semester as a full time liberal arts Psych major at CCC, my dream career is to be in a position to help people - specifically youth, in the field of Substance Abuse Counseling.


Seem Thomas Van Riper is his real name, this is now confirmed. Free for Ari or customers of bAsic scammed to continu the process... Anyway this scam case will be more to easy to fix than some others...Good luck for people scammed in BTC to recover their funds (I never ordered from bAsic)

Yeah, it appears so:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110203011330/http://sites.google.com/site/votevanriper/

||bit
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February 06, 2013, 11:59:17 PM
 #168

Yeah true enough. I guess I assumed people were following through...silly me.

Here comes the retribution for stealing ~50-100k BTC STyle ??

"Youre a scammer"

WOAH!!...ohh the humanity....its worse than Hitler....

...ho humm...Easy targets Cheesy


The only known scammer that didn't suffer such humiliation was Tom Williams.

Nah, he got scammer tagged under his other name, Bruce Wagner. Very misleading.
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February 06, 2013, 11:59:34 PM
 #169

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?

I can confirm the zip code, but that's for the whole town Fulton.

From NY DMV and zip code checks out: 13069


Vehicle Plate Number:      BITCOIN
Make of Vehicle:      CHEVR
Model Year of Vehicle:      2005



He got the licence plate in March last year.  He was still using the Fulton Street address for his PC repair business late last year but the website for that business is now gone.  It's still a reasonable starting point for lawyers, though.

Quote
New theory: Tom + Ari are the same person!

It would be funnier if Tom and Sonny were the same person.

LOL!
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February 07, 2013, 12:07:30 AM
 #170

I'm not even sure how I would approach this from a legal standpoint. Who does one contact? Surely not the police. The FBI would get involved if it can be shown that mail fraud has been committed. What's interesting is this... if the FBI determine that the bitcoins are not real money or something liek that and the only thing he has to re-imburse are bitcoins. That will suck fro Tom since the price are probably on average double since he accepted most of them.

So, does anyone know what a legal course of action would be? Who would need to be contacted?

The mayor of Fulton..? LOL

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February 07, 2013, 12:15:52 AM
 #171

Yeah true enough. I guess I assumed people were following through...silly me.

Here comes the retribution for stealing ~50-100k BTC STyle ??

"Youre a scammer"

WOAH!!...ohh the humanity....its worse than Hitler....

...ho humm...Easy targets Cheesy


The only known scammer that didn't suffer such humiliation was Tom Williams.

Nah, he got scammer tagged under his other name, Bruce Wagner. Very misleading.

Actually, no! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2033
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February 07, 2013, 12:51:29 AM
 #172


Hahaha, really? That's amazing.
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February 07, 2013, 01:17:41 AM
 #173


The only known scammer that didn't suffer such humiliation was Tom Williams.

I doubt those people who are sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars of other people's money are too concerned by the "humiliation" of a scammer tag (something Zhou doesn't have, incidentally).

I'm not even sure how I would approach this from a legal standpoint. Who does one contact? Surely not the police. The FBI would get involved if it can be shown that mail fraud has been committed. What's interesting is this... if the FBI determine that the bitcoins are not real money or something liek that and the only thing he has to re-imburse are bitcoins. That will suck fro Tom since the price are probably on average double since he accepted most of them.

A failed business is not the same thing as a fraud.  Whether Tom is operating as an LLC or as a sole trader, he has legal protections open to him if he personally or his business are insolvent.  The vast majority of the time, unsecured creditors can expect to receive little or nothing when the assets of a failed business are liquidated.  People can certainly pursue judgements against him in NY, but obtaining a judgement is not the same as being able to enforce it.

The pretending to be another company is going to fall under various fraud laws and is very likely a criminal offence.  There's a website whose name escapes me at the moment where you file a complaint in respect of computer related crime in the US and it gets forwarded to the appropriate government agency for follow up.  Someone else might recall their URL.

A question which remains unaddressed is the identity of the original investors in the bASIC project and the nature of their involvement - depending on how that investment was structured, they may also have legal liability in relation to the bASIC project.

Is there a way someone more technically competent than me can make a copy of the BitcoinASIC.net website in case the scammers decide to tske it down in a hurry?

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 07, 2013, 04:19:33 AM
 #174

Quote
Is there a way someone more technically competent than me can make a copy of the BitcoinASIC.net website in case the scammers decide to tske it down in a hurry?
You can do it yourself using HTTrack.
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February 07, 2013, 05:13:54 AM
 #175

Where are the mods who believe his account was hacked?

Idiots..
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February 07, 2013, 06:54:24 AM
 #176

I believe this picture of Cablepair / Thomas Van Riper was taken at this location.

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?


The Fulton address comes up positive for a person named Amy [C.] Vanriper. She is 29 years old. About the same age as Tom. Perhaps, his sister or wife.
Associated with the same address is the name Jeremy Wallace that is about ten years older or so which is possibly old data.

Well, now it's known where the lawyers can start looking.

Tom (unless he is just a patsy for of a more elaborate scheme) can do himself a big favor by updating people on the status of all the returns. Like how many are to process, and his daily progress...etc.. Silence on the issue only builds frustration with the people that already got screwed over.

||bit

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February 07, 2013, 08:08:49 AM
 #177

I believe this picture of Cablepair / Thomas Van Riper was taken at this location.

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?


The Fulton address comes up positive for a person named Amy [C.] Vanriper. She is 29 years old. About the same age as Tom. Perhaps, his sister or wife.
Associated with the same address is the name Jeremy Wallace that is about ten years older or so which is possibly old data.

Well, now it's known where the lawyers can start looking.

Tom (unless he is just a patsy for of a more elaborate scheme) can do himself a big favor by updating people on the status of all the returns. Like how many are to process, and his daily progress...etc.. Silence on the issue only builds frustration with the people that already got screwed over.

||bit




I'm all for going after scammers as aggressively as possible, but you might want to do a little more research before you post the name and address of some quite possibly unrelated person.

Anything whatsoever to suggest that the two live(d) there at the same time, or know each other? Or did you find some woman's name related to that address, and you're just running it up the flag poll?
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February 07, 2013, 11:02:26 AM
 #178

I'm all for going after scammers as aggressively as possible, but you might want to do a little more research before you post the name and address of some quite possibly unrelated person.

Anything whatsoever to suggest that the two live(d) there at the same time, or know each other? Or did you find some woman's name related to that address, and you're just running it up the flag poll?

What are you suggesting ?

This picture of Tom was taken at this location and now we learned that Amy Van Riper [29] also lives there. (what's the source of this last part of information?)


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February 07, 2013, 02:52:20 PM
 #179

I'm all for going after scammers as aggressively as possible, but you might want to do a little more research before you post the name and address of some quite possibly unrelated person.

Anything whatsoever to suggest that the two live(d) there at the same time, or know each other? Or did you find some woman's name related to that address, and you're just running it up the flag poll?

What are you suggesting ?

This picture of Tom was taken at this location and now we learned that Amy Van Riper [29] also lives there. (what's the source of this last part of information?)




Those seeking proof can turn to public sources:

Amy A. (Suppes) Van Riper

https://plus.google.com/105139826715061374299/photos
http://www.spokeo.com/search?q=Amy+Suppes&global=true&sns9=t40#New York
http://www.spokeo.com/search?q=Amy+Vanriper&sns9=t40&global=true#Hannibal,+NY:2162483267
http://www.spokeo.com/search?q=Amy+Van+Riper,+Fulton,+NY&sns9=t40#:17977904071
http://www.instantcheckmate.com/search/resultsAPI/NY/Vanriper/Amy
http://obits.syracuse.com/obituaries/syracuse/obituary-print.aspx?n=charmaine-stiles-moonie&pid=159889538

Tom and Amy have 4 children: Joseph Suppes (from Amy's prior relationship/marriage), Thomas M. Van Riper, Benjamin Neal Van Riper and LillyAnna Charmaine Van Riper (youngest, only daughter and in the picture with BITCOIN license plate).

http://www.ariseinc.org/pdfs/Unique2009.pdf
Reflections of the Willows
Amy Van Riper, 28, was sitting on a bench as the sun rose when she took “Reflections of the  willows.” She believes the photograph expresses calmness and serenity. Amy lives in Hannibal with her husband and three children. Amy embraces her disability and says that “it opens up my mind and eyes to see things as a form of art.”

Amy A Vanriper
Home (315) 402-2448
186 Rathburn Rd, Lot 16
Fulton, NY 13069-4169

PO Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074-0246

121 Lyon St
Fulton, NY 13069-2910

Other Addresses:
Pollard Rd, Lot 5, Hannibal, NY
Emery St, Fulton, NY

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February 07, 2013, 03:40:43 PM
 #180

Tom (unless he is just a patsy for of a more elaborate scheme) can [...]

||bit

No patsy.. he has always been very public about himself (a huge mistake in a con/scam, so take that with a grain of salt).

You can compare videos posted on YouTube, BTCFPGA MMQ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EoDeOCgJKs

Compared to him preaching gospel as Joel310Ministries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbPAcBAphU

Pesonal YT channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/offthefed/videos
is no longer online, so..
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TEVTXxUemdcJ:www.youtube.com/user/offthefed/videos+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
You can see Tom, wife Amy and son Ben in the video thumbnails.

Pesonal G+ channel:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/100481502635276052436/albums/profile
You can see Tom, wife Amy and daughter Lillyanna in photos, and he's friends with Dave Carlson.

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February 07, 2013, 03:52:21 PM
 #181

You get a lot of information on relatives from Tom's maternal grandmother Charmaine's Obituary:
http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fobits.syracuse.com%2Fobituaries%2Fsyracuse%2Fobituary-print.aspx%3Fn%3Dcharmaine-stiles-moonie%26pid%3D159889538&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEgdUlMt4dPuf8qSrH2mzl_MXStjw


Tom's Mom, Sue D. Breen
http://www.mylife.com/c-267162784
https://sites.google.com/site/ocacpa/

315-561-3022 is a Sprint Mobile phone which Tom used to advertise for his CNY Media PC Repair:
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/CNY.Media.PC.Repair.Specialist.315-561-3022


Aunt Robin, Sue's sister:
https://www.facebook.com/robin.mccombie


Uncle Tammie (Tedd), Sue's brother:
https://www.facebook.com/tedd.stiles

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February 07, 2013, 03:57:14 PM
 #182

Start praying Tom, we want our coins back.

Thou shall not steal, motherfucker.

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February 07, 2013, 04:05:54 PM
 #183

He doesn't appear to be watching this thread...

"Last Active:    January 22, 2013, 09:16:33 PM"
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February 07, 2013, 04:12:18 PM
 #184

He doesn't appear to be watching this thread...

"Last Active:    January 22, 2013, 09:16:33 PM"

That doesn't mean much. If you remember, that account was blocked for "being hacked". He's more likely here with another account altogether. Or not signed in at all.
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February 07, 2013, 05:37:23 PM
 #185

He doesn't appear to be watching this thread...

"Last Active:    January 22, 2013, 09:16:33 PM"

That doesn't mean much. If you remember, that account was blocked for "being hacked". He's more likely here with another account altogether. Or not signed in at all.
Good point.  I didn't remember that.
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February 07, 2013, 10:27:54 PM
 #186

Is the police responsible to investigate when they get a notice about a large scale fraud or is selling a product, get paid with a non-standard currency and never deliver anything legal in the US? Will there be an official investigation?
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February 07, 2013, 10:57:39 PM
 #187

Is the police responsible to investigate when they get a notice about a large scale fraud or is selling a product, get paid with a non-standard currency and never deliver anything legal in the US? Will there be an official investigation?

A business venture gone bad is not necessarily a fraud.  Pretending to be another company and using their credentials without their knowledge or credentials certainly opens one up to potential criminal charges but that's most likely to be investigated if and when Ari Asmar files an official complaint. 

This has been so poorly executed that it's extremely unlikely anyone has actually sent any funds to the fraudulent "re-branded" company and I have no idea of how highly attempted fraud is going to rate on any investigator's list of priorities.

In many cases, you're just going to be shit out of luck if you've paid a company for a product with an irreversible payment method (meaning pretty much anything other than CC or PayPal) and the company goes bust before delivery.  While you're free to obtain a judgement against them for the amount owed (assuming they don't seek insolvency protection), judgements against small business are often effectively unenforceable because small business owners often put all their liquid assets into starting their business, borrow against their homes, run up their credit cards, etc.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 07, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
 #188

Is the police responsible to investigate when they get a notice about a large scale fraud or is selling a product, get paid with a non-standard currency and never deliver anything legal in the US? Will there be an official investigation?

I doubt local police would get involved, but an agency like the SEC might if the value is large enough.  I don't think it matters whether that value is in USD or not.
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February 08, 2013, 12:41:27 AM
 #189

NEW THEORY: Tom isn't scamming... he lost the password to the big wallet. Alcohol and advanced encryption don't mix.
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February 08, 2013, 12:45:14 AM
 #190

Is the police responsible to investigate when they get a notice about a large scale fraud or is selling a product, get paid with a non-standard currency and never deliver anything legal in the US? Will there be an official investigation?

I doubt local police would get involved, but an agency like the SEC might if the value is large enough.  I don't think it matters whether that value is in USD or not.

I may have to beg to differ on this, SS.

I'm sure we've all seen, heard, read, etc., accounts of scams taking place via phone, now net, preying mainly on the elderly, but other demographics apply. The local paper does a little write-up on said scams, advising its citizens to contact the local police department, anonymously, if anybody has information. There hope is to nap the guy(s)/gal(s) before further damage is done in the respected community.

Likewise, if you see a theft committed of some other person, the police will not decide to not investigate because it's not your property at stake. Furthermore, if you know of a person who has stolen property, even though it's not your property, you're obligated to inform the police department. This is true even if the thief hasn't yet been reported, let alone not yet in the court systems, regardless of what jurisdiction the items were stolen from. In this case, it's documented and trackable wealth stolen from citizens from across the globe.

An example, to possibly drive the point home. I go to Indiana and visit a fellow Bitcoiner. During the visit, I stealing something from his home he yet has discovered missing. Back in Illinois, another fellow Bitcoiner visits my home and somehow notices that I have stolen property in my possession belonging to the other Bitcoiner in Indiana. The Bitcoiner in Indiana is now currently on safari in Africa, and will remain out of pocket for at least a couple more months. Meanwhile, it's a known fact, I'm moving soon.

Given the above, the Bitcoiner who visited my home is obligated to contact the police, stating his case. At this point, the police may take possession of said stolen item, informing me that I will get it back once the safari guy returns and proves that this is all a misunderstanding. No real harm for all parties occurred, and all are protected.

In Tom's case, the proof is overwhelming, and for the police not to act accordingly would not bode well for their department.

Bottom line, real wealth was transferred via wire under false pretense, and the scam is continuing to this day, but now incorporating identity theft, a felony.

To me, if convicted, Tom Van Riper may not see his children grow up, and all the college degrees he's earned would be for naught. Now, imagine being in his shoes. You think you pulled the perfect crime, but compounded it, and now you're scared to death. Personally, if I pulled such a stunt, not a single family member would come to my rescue, regardless of what I may have done for them in the past. I can't see anybody having 100% support from their family if they pulled such a ruse.

Tom Van Riper is not in a happy place now, for he inevitable knows that his perhaps once good name is forever tarnished.

~Bruno K~
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February 08, 2013, 01:04:52 AM
 #191

I just heard from the bank, my credit will be issued back to my credit card.  I called the Police because of the threats to his family.  I don't know what really happened but the whole things sounds more like a screw-up than a deliberate scam.

Given it a screw-up label, for sake of argument, aren't screw-ups addressed in a timely manner? Or did I miss the memo stating that hiding from screw-ups in the new norm? Missing that paradigm shift if quite possible on my part, for I've been busy lately.
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February 08, 2013, 01:13:16 AM
 #192

Tom Van Riper is not in a happy place now, for he inevitable knows that his perhaps once good name is forever tarnished.

Unless he's already gone.. slipped into permanent vacation with his family and can't be traced. I doubt he'd be dumb enough to remain a sitting duck.

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February 08, 2013, 01:25:25 AM
 #193

Tom Van Riper is not in a happy place now, for he inevitable knows that his perhaps once good name is forever tarnished.

Unless he's already gone.. slipped into permanent vacation with his family and can't be traced. I doubt he'd be dumb enough to remain a sitting duck.

Having a family in tow makes it much more difficult for him to hide, let alone earn a conventional living from this day forward. Unless his kids will be home-schooled, and he changes everybody's Social Security Number, hiding is pretty much impossible. One person may be able to do, but not a tainted family of five named Van Riper.

What the fuck am I talking about? Trendon Shavers is probably in his mom's bathroom jacking off while reading this.
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February 08, 2013, 01:26:55 AM
 #194

I believe this picture of Cablepair / Thomas Van Riper was taken at this location.

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?


The Fulton address comes up positive for a person named Amy [C.] Vanriper. She is 29 years old. About the same age as Tom. Perhaps, his sister or wife.
Associated with the same address is the name Jeremy Wallace that is about ten years older or so which is possibly old data.

Well, now it's known where the lawyers can start looking.

Tom (unless he is just a patsy for of a more elaborate scheme) can do himself a big favor by updating people on the status of all the returns. Like how many are to process, and his daily progress...etc.. Silence on the issue only builds frustration with the people that already got screwed over.

||bit




I'm all for going after scammers as aggressively as possible, but you might want to do a little more research before you post the name and address of some quite possibly unrelated person.

Anything whatsoever to suggest that the two live(d) there at the same time, or know each other? Or did you find some woman's name related to that address, and you're just running it up the flag poll?

That's the address Tom used. And the last name is the same as Toms. Seems dubious to think that they would happen to have the same last name at the same address and not be related. The purpose is to track down & confirm the identity of Tom, and if the person at the address is related to Tom, it would be helpful to locate him for any legal course. The information provided is from the public white pages at  the address Tom posted.

I'd be happy to delete all my posts about Tom if he refunded those he took coins from.

||bit
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February 08, 2013, 01:31:32 AM
 #195


What the fuck am I talking about? Trendon Shavers is probably in his mom's bathroom jacking off while reading this.

Exactly.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 08, 2013, 01:37:04 AM
 #196

The phone number in the white pages online that ends with "3019" is not Tom's number. Apparently, the woman that has it now said she got it last year. And she said she's received over a hundred phone calls over the past months. So, avoid calling this number. She said she would change her number tomorrow.

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February 08, 2013, 01:40:37 AM
 #197

Y'all need to read this post.

Quote
I have just received  an  encrypted email, one where I had to log into THEIR system to read the email and reply.
the Bank have been following this case/new-site & the forum.

They are STRONGLY of the opinion  that a 'Card replacement' is in order for any CC related to this case.
Since the original cards were processed and the 3 digit security number was supplied to validate the transactions, there is nothing to prevent the CC being re-billed or the card details being 'used' illegally.
Since the details  (address & cardholder details, card number & security digits) are in the possession of a 3rd party

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140472.msg1511184#msg1511184

If you paid Tom by credit card, get a replacement card issued.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 08, 2013, 01:50:25 AM
 #198

Y'all need to read this post.

Quote
I have just received  an  encrypted email, one where I had to log into THEIR system to read the email and reply.
the Bank have been following this case/new-site & the forum.

They are STRONGLY of the opinion  that a 'Card replacement' is in order for any CC related to this case.
Since the original cards were processed and the 3 digit security number was supplied to validate the transactions, there is nothing to prevent the CC being re-billed or the card details being 'used' illegally.
Since the details  (address & cardholder details, card number & security digits) are in the possession of a 3rd party

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140472.msg1511184#msg1511184

If you paid Tom by credit card, get a replacement card issued.

Good call and good lookin' out, repentence!

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February 08, 2013, 01:53:39 AM
 #199

Is the police responsible to investigate when they get a notice about a large scale fraud or is selling a product, get paid with a non-standard currency and never deliver anything legal in the US? Will there be an official investigation?

I doubt local police would get involved, but an agency like the SEC might if the value is large enough.  I don't think it matters whether that value is in USD or not.

I may have to beg to differ on this, SS.

I'm sure we've all seen, heard, read, etc., accounts of scams taking place via phone, now net, preying mainly on the elderly, but other demographics apply. The local paper does a little write-up on said scams, advising its citizens to contact the local police department, anonymously, if anybody has information. There hope is to nap the guy(s)/gal(s) before further damage is done in the respected community.

Likewise, if you see a theft committed of some other person, the police will not decide to not investigate because it's not your property at stake. Furthermore, if you know of a person who has stolen property, even though it's not your property, you're obligated to inform the police department. This is true even if the thief hasn't yet been reported, let alone not yet in the court systems, regardless of what jurisdiction the items were stolen from. In this case, it's documented and trackable wealth stolen from citizens from across the globe.

An example, to possibly drive the point home. I go to Indiana and visit a fellow Bitcoiner. During the visit, I stealing something from his home he yet has discovered missing. Back in Illinois, another fellow Bitcoiner visits my home and somehow notices that I have stolen property in my possession belonging to the other Bitcoiner in Indiana. The Bitcoiner in Indiana is now currently on safari in Africa, and will remain out of pocket for at least a couple more months. Meanwhile, it's a known fact, I'm moving soon.

Given the above, the Bitcoiner who visited my home is obligated to contact the police, stating his case. At this point, the police may take possession of said stolen item, informing me that I will get it back once the safari guy returns and proves that this is all a misunderstanding. No real harm for all parties occurred, and all are protected.

In Tom's case, the proof is overwhelming, and for the police not to act accordingly would not bode well for their department.

Bottom line, real wealth was transferred via wire under false pretense, and the scam is continuing to this day, but now incorporating identity theft, a felony.

To me, if convicted, Tom Van Riper may not see his children grow up, and all the college degrees he's earned would be for naught. Now, imagine being in his shoes. You think you pulled the perfect crime, but compounded it, and now you're scared to death. Personally, if I pulled such a stunt, not a single family member would come to my rescue, regardless of what I may have done for them in the past. I can't see anybody having 100% support from their family if they pulled such a ruse.

Tom Van Riper is not in a happy place now, for he inevitable knows that his perhaps once good name is forever tarnished.

~Bruno K~
Thanks for begging to differ - I've learned something new.  Wink
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February 08, 2013, 01:55:21 AM
 #200

Anyone have any ideas (estimates) on how much Tom might still owe out to people in dollars? or bitcoins?

||bit
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February 08, 2013, 01:59:24 AM
 #201

Anyone have any ideas (estimates) on how much Tom might still owe out to people in dollars? or bitcoins?

||bit
I heard it was around 10,000 BTC.  Don't quote me on that.
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February 08, 2013, 02:09:45 AM
 #202

Anyone have any ideas (estimates) on how much Tom might still owe out to people in dollars? or bitcoins?

||bit
I heard it was around 10,000 BTC.  Don't quote me on that.

This is from one of Dave's last posts on refunds.

Quote
Remaining:
136 BTC order refunds
106 BTC order refunds (already sent to Tom for payment)

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1052.0

It's unlikely that every order was only for a single unit, but even if that was the case you'd still be looking at at least a couple of hundred thousand dollars worth of BTC refunds.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 08, 2013, 02:19:41 AM
 #203

Anyone have any ideas (estimates) on how much Tom might still owe out to people in dollars? or bitcoins?

||bit
I heard it was around 10,000 BTC.  Don't quote me on that.
I doubt he wouldn't have to pay people back in bitcoins, since the product being bought was priced in dollars.

So, let's say 10,000 bitcoins were spent with $12 average/bitcoin. That would be $120,000 owed out. If I recall,  he said he had over a thousand refunds to work through in that last posting that I recall. So assume about 500, i.e. something less than half, of those are paid with bitcoins. And a minimum purchase of about ~$600.  That is ~$300,000 owed  - less any he might have refunded already.

I've perused some lawyers online that are in his area, and found a firm that handles cases of fraud etc... But I'm not committed to this route, yet.

||bit

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February 08, 2013, 02:30:20 AM
 #204



I've perused some lawyers online that are in his area, and found a firm that handles cases of fraud etc... But I'm not committed to this route, yet.

||bit



I don't think a consultation with a lawyer to find out the options available is a bad idea.  Getting that information doesn't commit anyone to a course of action and people probably need to keep their expectations about what can realistically be done grounded in reality. 

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 08, 2013, 02:42:27 AM
 #205



I've perused some lawyers online that are in his area, and found a firm that handles cases of fraud etc... But I'm not committed to this route, yet.

||bit



I don't think a consultation with a lawyer to find out the options available is a bad idea.  Getting that information doesn't commit anyone to a course of action and people probably need to keep their expectations about what can realistically be done grounded in reality. 

Yeah. I think there is plenty of evidence to show Tom took other's money/property. What shocks me is how silent Tom is about the refunds now. Does he think this will just "go away"? In the end, I won't be surprised if he ends up owing more than he took.

Not that it matters, but are there any photos or videos of Tom with his business name/product both visible?

||bit
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February 08, 2013, 02:47:55 AM
 #206



I've perused some lawyers online that are in his area, and found a firm that handles cases of fraud etc... But I'm not committed to this route, yet.

||bit



I don't think a consultation with a lawyer to find out the options available is a bad idea.  Getting that information doesn't commit anyone to a course of action and people probably need to keep their expectations about what can realistically be done grounded in reality. 

Yeah. I think there is plenty of evidence to show Tom took other's money/property. What shocks me is how silent Tom is about the refunds now. Does he think this will just "go away"? In the end, I won't be surprised if he ends up owing more than he took.

Not that it matters, but are there any photos or videos of Tom with his business name/product both visible?

||bit



This?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EoDeOCgJKs

And this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlAhR8Ry8VU

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February 08, 2013, 04:10:51 AM
 #207

Tom owes me $5,000 worth of BTC. In certain parts of the world, even in the USA, people get killed over less. Just saying. Tom, choose your next course of action wisely.
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February 08, 2013, 04:17:54 AM
 #208

JontheDong,

Is Tom's account still hacked?


lol
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February 08, 2013, 04:34:20 AM
 #209

JontheDong,

Is Tom's account still hacked?


lol


Ha... you said Dong.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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February 08, 2013, 04:36:35 AM
 #210

Maybe Tom is just riding this rally out, knowing everyone's pretty much cool with pricing his "product" in terms of USD,(i.e giving Tom free btc in the name of conversion, though no conversion actually happened with the btc) that way he can pay everyone back and still make a couple hundred thousand (if that's indeed what he's still owed).  Why would he pay you while the price is still sky rocketing under those circumstances?
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February 08, 2013, 06:24:33 AM
 #211

Maybe Tom is just riding this rally out, knowing everyone's pretty much cool with pricing his "product" in terms of USD,(i.e giving Tom free btc in the name of conversion, though no conversion actually happened with the btc) that way he can pay everyone back and still make a couple hundred thousand (if that's indeed what he's still owed).  Why would he pay you while the price is still sky rocketing under those circumstances?
When Dave sent the refund list to Tom, all BTC amounts were assuming a $15/BTC value, even tho the price at the time was closer to $18, and has since gone up.

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February 08, 2013, 06:50:58 AM
 #212

A business venture gone bad is not necessarily a fraud.

If your business is going bad, you communicate this to your business partners and customers. You keep them updated about what's going on and maybe you declare chapter 11 or whatever you do in this case.

But if you hide and run, I would consider it to be fraud.
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February 08, 2013, 07:12:51 AM
 #213

Two more thoughts.

What are the chances that Tom's still mining, and if he is, is he doing such via a pool. And if that's the case, can his IP be traced?

Also, and somebody else would have to look into this aspect, Tom Van Riper not only collect money for mining units, but also extra to handle S/H. Is there anyway to get the Postal General involve?

I can't phantom a hungry family of six on the lamb with a Bitcoin mining rig in tow.
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February 08, 2013, 07:31:03 AM
 #214


Also, and somebody else would have to look into this aspect, Tom Van Riper not only collect money for mining units, but also extra to handle S/H. Is there anyway to get the Postal General involve?


Oh absolutely! If his customers pursue to the fullest extent, it's definitely going to land in mail fraud territory too.

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February 08, 2013, 07:54:01 AM
 #215

A business venture gone bad is not necessarily a fraud.

If your business is going bad, you communicate this to your business partners and customers. You keep them updated about what's going on and maybe you declare chapter 11 or whatever you do in this case.

But if you hide and run, I would consider it to be fraud.


In my experience, small businesses and individuals are often curiously reluctant to seek insolvency protection until judgements against them are piling up and ignoring financial disaster in the hope it will either go away or "something will come up" is pretty common.

We have no idea what Tom actually owes.  If there are "investors" they may even be secured creditors depending on how their financial contribution was structured.  Also, deeds of arrangement with creditors tend not to work so well when there are a large amount of creditors or when there would be difficulty in treating a class of creditors equally.

Phin, if this is a criminal matter then investigators have access to DMV and other asset records.  Plenty of people manage to avoid creditors without living as vagrant lifestyle as though they're trying to stay one step ahead of law enforcement.  It's certainly possible that Tom and his family are moving around from one cheap hotel to another and town to town, but there's no reason to believe that it's likely.  NY's a bigger city than Sydney and it would still be relatively easy to "disappear" here even if you'd committed the kind of crime which made accessing your bank accounts or using your ID dangerous.

Law enforcement can obviously seek the disgorgement of all sorts of information which isn't going to be available to creditors.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 08, 2013, 02:18:17 PM
 #216

A business venture gone bad is not necessarily a fraud.

If your business is going bad, you communicate this to your business partners and customers. You keep them updated about what's going on and maybe you declare chapter 11 or whatever you do in this case.

But if you hide and run, I would consider it to be fraud.


In my experience, small businesses and individuals are often curiously reluctant to seek insolvency protection until judgements against them are piling up and ignoring financial disaster in the hope it will either go away or "something will come up" is pretty common.

We have no idea what Tom actually owes.  If there are "investors" they may even be secured creditors depending on how their financial contribution was structured.  Also, deeds of arrangement with creditors tend not to work so well when there are a large amount of creditors or when there would be difficulty in treating a class of creditors equally.

Phin, if this is a criminal matter then investigators have access to DMV and other asset records.  Plenty of people manage to avoid creditors without living as vagrant lifestyle as though they're trying to stay one step ahead of law enforcement.  It's certainly possible that Tom and his family are moving around from one cheap hotel to another and town to town, but there's no reason to believe that it's likely.  NY's a bigger city than Sydney and it would still be relatively easy to "disappear" here even if you'd committed the kind of crime which made accessing your bank accounts or using your ID dangerous.

Law enforcement can obviously seek the disgorgement of all sorts of information which isn't going to be available to creditors.

Please stop your rambling.... blah blah... The poster you quoted made a good point and you didnt counter any of that. He clearly explained to you between fraud and business going bad. You're one of those who still thinks that Tom has no intention to scam (and you kept going on and on)

We all know your family member is a lawyer/paralegal. You're in AU, and this is US. Just stop all these "smart-ass" comment about your experiences with business and laws.... blah blah.
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February 08, 2013, 02:26:44 PM
 #217