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Author Topic: [BTC-TC] BitVPS  (Read 32595 times)
Findus
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April 10, 2014, 06:59:30 AM
 #181

I invested 700 dollars, and you think I can be content with your forced 20 dollars buy-back?
I would have been less offended if you had just said "Fuck you, I'm keeping your money."

You can keep your 20 dollars but I want you to remember every day that you screwed many investors who trusted in you.

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April 10, 2014, 08:18:59 AM
 #182

Can I buy the whole thing for 2x that much ?
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April 10, 2014, 01:26:13 PM
 #183

Calculating purely from the dividends is bullshit. They were not paying out all profit as dividends, they were re-investing to grow the business. The buyout should be calculated from the assets the company has, plus the estimated upcoming dividends.

PS: Make sure you check your spam folder if you don't see the email in your inbox.

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April 10, 2014, 11:21:29 PM
 #184

Quote from: the email
To whom it may concern,

After review with our general counsel we have decided that the only viable method as a company
is to perform a share buy-back.
What did the contract with BitVPS shareholder say about buyback, was it mentioned in it and how should the price be calculated.

Quote from: the email
To this end we plan to carry out the buy back in a timed fashion. This
means we will place a constraint on eligibility of inclusion. For
clarification purposes this has been set at five (5) business days from
the public release of this letter. If, after five (5) business days, we
have received no response your shares will enter forfeiture and be
returned to BitVPS.
This cannot however you look at it be legal, to steal shares from those that check there mail less than once a week.
How do you define business days by the way, mo-fr 5 days a week as business days or all 7 days in a week as business day ?
How is the public release date/time defined was/is it the day/time you posted it somewhere, on your homepage maby or will you post it here on bitcointalk, i dont see in that the mail that you send out that it was dated with day and time.
So what time & day was/is the release time and what time and day is the latest you want shareholders to answer if they accept your offer ?

Quote from: the email
To sufficiently prove ownership of the associated shares & email
address we will require you to respond from the associated email and
also provide a signed message with the address receiving dividends from
BitVPS.

Have bitVPS been paying out dividend after BTCTs closure ?
Witch address did you pay to and what amount per share and what date & time was these payouts made for the months that has been after the closure so people know what address you want them to sign messages from, is it the public address most people entered at btct ?

Quote from: the email
Signed message "BitVPS Investor" should be provided with the
aforementioned address.
Is that(BitVPS Investor) the exact text that should be in the the signed message ?

Quote from: the email
Example of successful notification for repayment

1. Shareholder confirms the following:
a. That they’ve been receiving dividend payouts
b. Bitcoin address used for payouts
c. signature with associated Bitcoin address
d. E-mail address associated with the provided Bitcoin address
2. Shareholder is paid $0.025 USD for each share of BitVPS in their
possession via Bitcoin. To further provide an offer of a fair rate of
exchange we will use coinbase.com 24 hour average at the time of
payback.
1 a You need to inform shareholders when and how much per share that was payed out as dividend after btct's closure so they can see if you have been paying out the dividend and if the correct amount has been payed out as it can be hard to see what payouts have come from btvps when some people might have had shares in a lot of company's that has been paying out dividend after the closure.

Quote from: the email
Buy Back Calculations

To ensure this was calculated fairly we used a formula based on profit &
loss over the last 2 months. This ensured an average of recent turnover
to obtain a suitable price. Once this was obtained we performed an
upward rounding to the nearest three (3) decimal places.

     To this end we have calculated the price to be $0.025/share. This
was derived from taking the average of the final dividends paid for the
last 2 public statements of BitVPS
, and multiplying it by 12, for 12
months. Then finally dividing it by one (1) million for the shares and
rounding to the nearest third (3) decimal place.

     If you have any questions or issues, please do not hesitate to
contact us as soon as possible.
Who came to the conclusion that the last 2 public statements dividend should be the base for the buyback price, where is those statements published and for what months are they and how has the statements that you haven't published after those looked like and how is the future profit for the company expected to look like, are the last 2 monthly statements representative to BitVPS past and future expected profits.
Is BitVPS only expected to earn 12 times the avg monthly profit of those 2 months for the entire future ?
Is it regulated in the contract with the shareholders that only 12 times the monthly profit for an arbitrary chosen period should be used for calculating the base for buyout price, that sounds very strange then ?
Can you please publish all months statements from the time bitVPS started selling shares to the public up until the last one for mars 2014 so people can have a closer look at how the offer is related to past performance.

0.025usd per share sounds extremely low compared to what the share was traded at, a more reasonable buyback price would be something like the estimated profit per share for the next 10 years or something.
What was the avg sellprice of the BitVPS stock in BTC and USD when they were issued ?

Hello everyone,

We would like to apologize for the lack of communication that we have maintained with our investors over the last few weeks. There have been some big developments going on internally. We will email all investors before the end of March with some big news relating to shares and the future of BitVPS.

Sincerely,
BitVPS
It looks like you forgot to tell shareholders what the big development that has been going on internally was, did you strike a great deal with some big company or something ?

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April 11, 2014, 03:11:56 AM
 #185

Completely unacceptable.
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April 11, 2014, 07:12:31 AM
 #186

nice SCAM

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April 11, 2014, 09:46:53 AM
 #187

Thy my offer is serious, what stops you to actually auction your business for 10x+ more rather than scam everyone and face some sort of investigation?
BitVPS
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April 11, 2014, 10:28:33 AM
 #188

Quote
    To this end we have calculated the price to be $0.025/share. This
was derived from taking the average of the final dividends paid for the
last 2 public statements of BitVPS, and multiplying it by 12, for 12
months. Then finally dividing it by one (1) million for the shares and
rounding to the nearest third (3) decimal place.

So they are buying the whole thing back for just $2500?! This implies that average monthly dividend is just $208.

Quote
We’d like to express our sincere gratitude to all shareholders who’ve
been with us since the beginning. BitVPS could not have grown to the
multi-faceted hosting solutions provider it’s become without all of you.

Well, according to your logic, this "multi-faceted hosting solutions provider" is worth only $2500, so it looks like it haven't grown much, you don't need to thank us.

I bet domain name alone is worth way more than $2500.

I would like to correct your calculation, it is actually $25,000 paid total for the company. This is 0.025cents multiplied by 1 million

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April 11, 2014, 11:38:59 AM
 #189

Thy my offer is serious, what stops you to actually auction your business for 10x+ more rather than scam everyone and face some sort of investigation?
I only have a small amount of shares, my concern is more about what others may loose here that invested in this stock if things isen't handled correct.
The second part of your sentence must be aimed to BitVPS/Nameworld.

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April 11, 2014, 12:21:18 PM
 #190

Good links there with the buyback clause from the listing on Mpex:

"2.2. The Terms of the IPO.

(a) The Directors have elected to divide BitVPS into 1`000`000 (one million) equal non-voting shares with a total equity value of 1`200 BTC (0.0012 BTC each). In the event of liquidation or breach of this Agreement they solemnly promise and warrant to repay all investors holding shares at this minimum value. The Directors through their elected representative solemnly promise and warrant never to issue more shares either on MPEX or any other venue nor in any way to dillute existing shareholders at any point in the future ;"

So it looks like 0.0012 BTC per share is the minimum BitVPS has to offer per share if they like to buy them back.

and the price structure for the first 150 000 shares looks like it was:
 
"(b) Based on the Statements of Profit and Loss published as per 2.1.b above, as well as on evaluation of market demand, future profitability and projected evolution, the Directors have elected to offer in this IPO a total of 150`000 (one hundred thousand) shares, as follows : one block of 30`000 (thirty thousand) shares at a price of 0.0022 BTC each ; one block of 75`000 (seventy-five thousand) shares at a price of 0.0024 BTC each ; one block of 45`000 (fourty-five thousand) shares at a price of 0.0026 BTC each.
(c) The Directors warrant that no further shares will be offered by them for a period of 30 days from the date these offered shares are sold. The Directors further warrant that they will never sell more than half the total shares."

If one assumes that the first 150 000 shares were sold out at there stated price then they raised 30 000 * 0.0022 + 75 000 * 0.0024 + 45 000 * 0.0026 = 66+ 180+117 = 363 BTC there and possibly 700+ btc more if the rest of the shares up to 419 306 that have been sold (accourding to outstanding shares on the link to the btct page) were at 0.0026 or higher price.

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April 11, 2014, 03:38:51 PM
 #191

Good links there with the buyback clause from the listing on Mpex:

"2.2. The Terms of the IPO.

(a) The Directors have elected to divide BitVPS into 1`000`000 (one million) equal non-voting shares with a total equity value of 1`200 BTC (0.0012 BTC each). In the event of liquidation or breach of this Agreement they solemnly promise and warrant to repay all investors holding shares at this minimum value. The Directors through their elected representative solemnly promise and warrant never to issue more shares either on MPEX or any other venue nor in any way to dillute existing shareholders at any point in the future ;"

So it looks like 0.0012 BTC per share is the minimum BitVPS has to offer per share if they like to buy them back.

and the price structure for the first 150 000 shares looks like it was:
 
"(b) Based on the Statements of Profit and Loss published as per 2.1.b above, as well as on evaluation of market demand, future profitability and projected evolution, the Directors have elected to offer in this IPO a total of 150`000 (one hundred thousand) shares, as follows : one block of 30`000 (thirty thousand) shares at a price of 0.0022 BTC each ; one block of 75`000 (seventy-five thousand) shares at a price of 0.0024 BTC each ; one block of 45`000 (fourty-five thousand) shares at a price of 0.0026 BTC each.
(c) The Directors warrant that no further shares will be offered by them for a period of 30 days from the date these offered shares are sold. The Directors further warrant that they will never sell more than half the total shares."

If one assumes that the first 150 000 shares were sold out at there stated price then they raised 30 000 * 0.0022 + 75 000 * 0.0024 + 45 000 * 0.0026 = 66+ 180+117 = 363 BTC there and possibly 700+ btc more if the rest of the shares up to 419 306 that have been sold (accourding to outstanding shares on the link to the btct page) were at 0.0026 or higher price.

According to RG's original contract, at the time of sale, he was supposed to share the proceeds with the investors. We purchased the entirety of BitVPS for 100 BTC. This included simply a domain name, a handful of customers, and rental contracts for servers which were a huge burden as the company was not profitable at the time (BitVPS owned no assets at this time). RG failed to share the BTC he acquired from us, with the investors. At this point we had no obligation to continue supporting the investors.

On top of this, RG was in breach of his own contract for various reasons. BitVPS was de-listed from MPEX as a result. It is outlined in his contract what should be done, by him, in the case of his contract being breached.

We decided to keep paying out dividends while neglecting the fact that we had no real obligation to do so. We are trying to close this chapter in BitVPS's life in a way where we wont go bankrupt. I understand while this may not seem ideal for all, it is what BitVPS can realistically afford while basing the buyout on numbers from our recent financial statements.

We currently have ~$4,500 in the bank. Most of the money for the buyout was going to come straight out of my pocket. BitVPS is already in debt to me for over $8,000 which I decided to just forget about and start with a clean slate. As mentioned earlier there were two options we felt we had. One being this buyout, and the second option being to declare bankruptcy. As much as we wish we could pay 0.0012 BTC per share, it is literally not possible. This amount, unfortunately, would put us directly into bankruptcy. I shouldn't need to explain where bankruptcy would lead us.

To answer some of the other questions:
-0.025 * 1,000,000 = 25,000 (not 2,500!)
-We will grant a three day grace period (on top of the original 5 business days) to claim your shares. Final day for claiming your shares will be 4/18/2014 (typo, edited the date). We will process claims made after this date only under certain circumstances.
-If you need to find out the BTC address associated with your account just send us an email. As long as you email us within the 5 (8 days including grace period) day time frame, you will not be disqualified.

I hope this answers some of your questions. If you have any further questions (and comments or suggestions) please ask. You will get a much faster response if you are able to msg me on freenode (nick: arij).
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April 11, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
 #192

According to RG's original contract, at the time of sale, he was supposed to share the proceeds with the investors. We purchased the entirety of BitVPS for 100 BTC. This included simply a domain name, a handful of customers, and rental contracts for servers which were a huge burden as the company was not profitable at the time (BitVPS owned no assets at this time). RG failed to share the BTC he acquired from us, with the investors. At this point we had no obligation to continue supporting the investors.

On top of this, RG was in breach of his own contract for various reasons. BitVPS was de-listed from MPEX as a result. It is outlined in his contract what should be done, by him, in the case of his contract being breached.

We decided to keep paying out dividends while neglecting the fact that we had no real obligation to do so. We are trying to close this chapter in BitVPS's life in a way where we wont go bankrupt. I understand while this may not seem ideal for all, it is what BitVPS can realistically afford while basing the buyout on numbers from our recent financial statements.

We currently have ~$4,500 in the bank. Most of the money for the buyout was going to come straight out of my pocket. BitVPS is already in debt to me for over $8,000 which I decided to just forget about and start with a clean slate. As mentioned earlier there were two options we felt we had. One being this buyout, and the second option being to declare bankruptcy. As much as we wish we could pay 0.0012 BTC per share, it is literally not possible. This amount, unfortunately, would put us directly into bankruptcy. I shouldn't need to explain where bankruptcy would lead us.

To answer some of the other questions:
-0.025 * 1,000,000 = 25,000 (not 2,500!)
-We will grant a three day grace period (on top of the original 5 business days) to claim your shares. Final day for claiming your shares will be 4/18/2014 (typo, edited the date). We will process claims made after this date only under certain circumstances.
-If you need to find out the BTC address associated with your account just send us an email. As long as you email us within the 5 (8 days including grace period) day time frame, you will not be disqualified.

I hope this answers some of your questions. If you have any further questions (and comments or suggestions) please ask. You will get a much faster response if you are able to msg me on freenode (nick: arij).

Okey thanks for explaining things, basically you bought part of the old company but not it's liability then and most of the problems for BitVPS seems to have happened before you bought it and the fact that btcprice went up a lot the last year probably hasn't made the numbers in btc look any better for the company i guess. The current situation in USA according to how they interpret stocks and similar things not denominated in usd probably haven't made things better either.

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April 11, 2014, 11:58:16 PM
 #193

Why are we learning this essential information just now?!

Or did I miss some announcement?

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April 12, 2014, 12:40:24 PM
 #194

If you are bankrupt, you have to declare bankruptcy... that's why there are laws regulating bankruptcy...

Quote from: the email
To whom it may concern,
[...]

Thank you for posting that, mine was in my spam folder...

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April 12, 2014, 12:42:26 PM
 #195

Instead of basing the repayment on the result of november and december, you should publish results from January, February and March and base the repayment on the total profit, not just the dividend, since some of the profit was reinvested back into the company.

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April 12, 2014, 01:47:54 PM
 #196

Instead of basing the repayment on the result of november and december, you should publish results from January, February and March and base the repayment on the total profit, not just the dividend, since some of the profit was reinvested back into the company.
- OR - just don't buy back since it's violating the contract.

You can't expect to say "your money was useful, now fuck off and die" and walk away clean...

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April 12, 2014, 01:49:20 PM
 #197

Okey thanks for explaining things, basically you bought part of the old company but not it's liability then and most of the problems for BitVPS seems to have happened before you bought it and the fact that btcprice went up a lot the last year probably hasn't made the numbers in btc look any better for the company i guess. The current situation in USA according to how they interpret stocks and similar things not denominated in usd probably haven't made things better either.
1. if you buy a company you buy the whole package, including the obligations and liabilities
2. if you allow trading after you buy it, you can't "just stop it" later, unless the contract allows you to do so

They are trying to scam us plain and simple.

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April 12, 2014, 03:37:51 PM
 #198

If you are bankrupt, you have to declare bankruptcy... that's why there are laws regulating bankruptcy...

Quote from: the email
To whom it may concern,
[...]

Thank you for posting that, mine was in my spam folder...


Being in debt does not equal going bankrupt. We are able to pay the debts which we currently hold.
Now on the other hand, basing the buy back price off of a invalidated contract would put BitVPS into such a large amount of debt that we would not be able to pay employees, operations would seize, and we would be forced into bankruptcy.

- OR - just don't buy back since it's violating the contract.

You can't expect to say "your money was useful, now fuck off and die" and walk away clean...

The "contract" (rg's contract) was breached by himself.
A quote from the "contract":
(g) In the event of the sale of BitVPS or voluntary liquidation thereof, all proceeds will be distributed fairly to all shareholders by proportion to the shares they hold. -- This was a requirement, as outlined by the previous directors of BitVPS, in the event of the sale of BitVPS. This clearly failed to happen.

We paid, in Bitcoin (100BTC), for BitVPS. Yes, we should have came forward with this earlier, but it is what it is. We are good people and certainly not out to scam anyone.
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April 12, 2014, 04:56:26 PM
 #199

... We purchased the entirety of BitVPS for 100 BTC...

Odd question:  How did you buy the entirety of BitVPS without buying the shares which represent it?
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April 12, 2014, 04:58:55 PM
 #200

... We purchased the entirety of BitVPS for 100 BTC...

Odd question:  How did you buy the entirety of BitVPS without buying the shares which represent it?

Maybe that was just badly worded. If you read RG's contract you can clearly see that the investor/shareholder side of the business was to end with the sale.
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