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Author Topic: MAJOR UPGRADE @ BitcoinPool.com ~ No Fees ~ Are you still paying to be a miner?  (Read 7149 times)
joulesbeef
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August 19, 2011, 01:37:46 AM
 #41

yeah payouts are a bit random.

the json stats are nutty.. i'm not sure why.
if there is a reason behind it, they should disclose it, otherwise it looks like bad programming and the fact that it still exists makes me wonder about the rest of the pools coding.


please let us know what is up.

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September 06, 2011, 08:54:51 AM
 #42

Everyone should read the 2nd recent post: (was it on purpose that you posted the way less important news of changing miner passwords again to make it to the top?)

http://www.bitcoinpool.com/index.php
iopq
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September 07, 2011, 02:05:00 PM
 #43

So let me get this straight:

the current reward system is still hoppable to about 23% of the round because your efficiency is still above 1
but unlike slush's method where the money you lose because the round is long goes to other people, it goes to the bitcoinpool management

in fact slush's hop-off point is about 15% so the slush score system is better against hoppers, this system just punishes normal users who lose their connection and FURTHERMORE punishes all users because their shares are being stolen by hoppers still, but now some of that is going to the pool operators instead of just the hoppers

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September 08, 2011, 06:41:25 PM
 #44

Not true. First major flaw with your logic is NOBODY knows how long the round is going to take, hence you don't know when 23% of the round is.  Secondly, we totally mess with the stats to trick pool hopping software.  The only people this affects is pool-hoppers, which we are more than happy to discourage from even trying to use our pool.

As stated on the front news page.

Quote
After much consideration and review of how our anti-pool hopping system is looked upon by members of the Bitcoin community, we have chosen to change the way in which it is working.

In the Past:
If a user participated in less than 50% of the round, their shares would be reduced by 10%, unless a donation was set, in which case, no penalty was applied.

This allowed for our users with legitimate disconnects, or reasons for being unable to mine during long rounds to avoid being hit with a penalty.

Some people seem to belive that this is a negative aspect of the anti-hopping system due to the easily cheatable nature of the system and the fact that pool hoppers are still given a large incentive to exploit our pool.

From Now on:
If a user participates in less than 50% of the round, their shares will be reduced by 50%, regardless of donation. 50% of the penalty fee will be directed toward the donations account and will be applied to server costs and future monthly contests. The other 50% of the penalty will be removed from the total shares for the round, which will in-hand cause the value of all remaining shares in the round to increase.

Example -

100,000 shares are in the round.

User A has 5000 shares and is NOT a hopper. Their estimated earnings before penalties are applied is 2.5 BTC.

User B has 5000 shares and IS A hopper. Their estimated earnings before penalties are applied is 2.5 BTC.

Once penalties are applied, User B's shares are reduced to 2500 where 1250 has been credited to donations and 1250 has been removed from the round. After the penalty is applied, User B's unconfirmed earnings are 1.265 BTC and User A's unconfirmed earnings are 2.5316 BTC.

At this time, any donation currently set on your account will remain in place. Donations will be processed prior to any penalties. As a reminder, donations are entirely voluntary and are not required to use this pool.

We will use this new method of calculating penalties for a one week trial period, at which time we will decide whether or not it is effectively deterring pool hopping and effectively rewarding loyal members of the pool.

Regards,

BitcoinPool Staff

So 25% of the a pool hoppers shares goes to us, 25% is take from the total shares of the round (which causes other non-pool hoppers to get more), and the pool-hopper only gets 50% of what he/she would have gotten had then not been a pool hopper.  We're feeling this out to see how it works.  This new method gives MORE back to our users and less for us; and as for what we keep it ends up going back to the users anyhow...

Quote
Once again we will be doing a random drawing for our monthly give away, and this month we'll be giving away up to TEN SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6870 (1GB, 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16) cards.



(We had a few extra Ron Paul 2012 stickers laying around that we're going to throw in too Smiley

We haven't been able to offer monthly contests for the past two months due to various reasons, but we want to make it up to everyone by offering a bigger and better contest for this month!

If pool speed averages 100 - 199 Gh/s for the month, we'll be giving away one Radeon HD 6870.
If pool speed averages 200 - 299 Gh/s for the month, we'll be giving away two Radeon HD 6870s...

...all the way up to 1000 - 1099 Gh/s where TEN LUCKY USERS will each win a Radeon HD 6870!

As always, more info in the forum post here and the rules here.  Contest ends September 30, 2011.

So get out there, spread the word, and keep mining!

- BitcoinPool Staff

The bitcoins that we do end up getting as a result of pool hoppers being penalized ends up going towards monthly giveaway, as in the $1,750 (which is about equal to 2 months of donations AND penalized pool-hoppers) I just spent last week for the 10 video cards that we are giving away for this month's Give-Away contest.

Everyone seems to think that Geebus and I make a living off the pool like DeepBit or Slush's pool, BUT WE DON'T!!  Geebus and I both have regular jobs like most people, and we run this pool on the side.  If we depended on the pool for our living, we'd both be without a home by now.

There is nothing stopping people from mining on our pool with a 0% donation set.  As long as you are not pool hopping, you don't get penalized. It's that simple. This way of doing it is much more fair to the loyal miners on our pool.  The only people that seem to have a problem with this is ..... pool-hoppers!  It's fairly obvious who is a pool hopper and who isn't, because only pool hoppers complain about this.  Lots of our loyal miners have already expressed that they like this as it rewards them for sticking around.  So feel free to complain all you want, but you'll just be outing yourself as a greedy pool-hopper.

As for all the non-pool hopping miners out there, if you want to be qualified to win a 6870 this month, you know where to come now. Smiley
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September 08, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
 #45

Has anyone even looked at the details for solved blocks after the change? Users are being scammed big time. For instance, for block #144456 a total of 438 users had their reward halved, and only 9 got the full reward. 16 BTC went to the donations user (the pool).
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September 08, 2011, 06:54:53 PM
 #46

Has anyone even looked at the details for solved blocks after the change? Users are being scammed big time. For instance, for block #144456 a total of 438 users had their reward halved, and only 9 got the full reward. 16 BTC went to the donations user (the pool).

That's a new and now known bug that we're working on fixing it asap.

I kinda freaked out when I woke up this morning and saw everyone was affected. I'll post back here when it's fixed.

It's funny how most people on this forum immediately freak out and think the worst possible thing  (scammer, snake-oil, thief, hackers, etc, etc) has happened when it's just a software bug... jeez.  Saying it's a 'scam' when it's very obvious that something went wrong seems premature.  Anyone that has half a brain and can stop and think for a minute or two, it's become very obvious that something went wrong.  Rhetorical question: Why would we run a 'scam' then make it that obvious by falsely showing everyone is a pool-hopper? We would not do that as it would be a completely stupid scam, blatantly obvious, and would have hundreds of previous solved blocks to backup such a ridiculous claim.

But I'll let people think for themselves while taking a look at all our previous solved blocks.

Do any other pools show ALL their solved block information??  If not, and we go by Grinders knee-jerk logic, then I guess they could all be scamming their users and are hiding the evidence.  But of course, that type of logic is unfounded and we would never say that.  It's reason's like this that we include the most information possible in our solved block history....to keep the level of trust in us higher than the other pools and the users of our pool honest.  

Further more, the level of transparency we offer has been very helpful in the past when we tracked down a user who was cheating other miners.  We had one of our users point out to us that another user had an efficiency of over 380%...which should never happen (another reason efficiency matters Tongue ).  We did a bit of digging, and found out there was a evil Tor exit node that was stealing getwork request and share submissions of miners who were/are using Tor.  Because of our detailed block solve history, we were able to see that this person had been doing this for at least a week before anyone caught it.  We rightfully banned that user and blocked their IP addresses.

So now I have to wonder, which other pools are being targeted by this Tor exit node??  I guess we'll never know because no other pool offers this level of transparency and detail for their solved block history.  Just one more reason for users to trust our pool before believing a unfounded and slanderous claim like "Users are being scammed big time" from someone who obviously doesn't understand how having a open, transparent, and highly detailed solved block history keeps everyone honest.

geebus
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September 08, 2011, 11:47:36 PM
 #47

Has anyone even looked at the details for solved blocks after the change? Users are being scammed big time. For instance, for block #144456 a total of 438 users had their reward halved, and only 9 got the full reward. 16 BTC went to the donations user (the pool).

1) We didn't scam anybody. We never have and we never will.
2) The bug has since been fixed and both rounds rolled back to give full credit of shares to all users (even pool hoppers).
3) You're kind of an ass.

Feel like donating to me? BTC Address: 14eUVSgBSzLpHXGAfbN9BojXTWvTb91SHJ
iopq
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September 09, 2011, 02:14:46 AM
 #48

Not true. First major flaw with your logic is NOBODY knows how long the round is going to take
stop right there
I meant hopping on from 0 to 23

even with the penalty it's more profitable than 24/7 mining
http://hoppersden.info/entries/18-How-to-hop-3-the-50-50-tax

so with bithopper you'd set the pool to mine_deepbit and penalty of 2
I personally don't want to do this knowing that you set up this system so that hopping still continues, but the pool makes money on it

organofcorti
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September 09, 2011, 02:56:38 AM
 #49

Not true. First major flaw with your logic is NOBODY knows how long the round is going to take
stop right there
I meant hopping on from 0 to 23

even with the penalty it's more profitable than 24/7 mining
http://hoppersden.info/entries/18-How-to-hop-3-the-50-50-tax

so with bithopper you'd set the pool to mine_deepbit and penalty of 2
I personally don't want to do this knowing that you set up this system so that hopping still continues, but the pool makes money on it

Dammit iopq, now everyone knows!

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organofcorti
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September 09, 2011, 02:59:56 AM
 #50

As for all the non-pool hopping miners out there, if you want to be qualified to win a 6870 this month, you know where to come now. Smiley

I didn't read anything about miners you've classified as pool hoppers not being eligible to win the 6870. Was that somewhere in your tl;dr post or are you just making up rules on the fly again?

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geebus
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September 09, 2011, 04:00:57 AM
 #51

As for all the non-pool hopping miners out there, if you want to be qualified to win a 6870 this month, you know where to come now. Smiley

I didn't read anything about miners you've classified as pool hoppers not being eligible to win the 6870. Was that somewhere in your tl;dr post or are you just making up rules on the fly again?

To quote the rules of the contest, which were originally posted June 4th, and updated Sept. 1st:
Quote
To qualify to win, users must have an account in good standing and must have participated for the majority of rounds during a 15 day period inside the month. Meaning, you participate in 50+% of rounds during the month without getting flagged repeatedly as a pool hopper**. Days do not need to be consecutive.

Users who are caught cheating or otherwise attempting to defraud the pool and/or contest will be immediately disqualified from the contest and likely have their account, IP address, email account and/or walletID banned.

And the 2nd note, which is attached to the "flagged repeatedly as a pool hopper":
Quote
** Users who are donating may not get their shares reduced by anti-pool hopping measures, but will still be ineligible for the contest if they would have been flagged as a pool hopper had they not been donating, if donations allow for exclusion of penalties.

Feel like donating to me? BTC Address: 14eUVSgBSzLpHXGAfbN9BojXTWvTb91SHJ
organofcorti
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September 09, 2011, 04:31:17 AM
 #52


Quote
To qualify to win, users must have an account in good standing and must have participated for the majority of rounds during a 15 day period inside the month. Meaning, you participate in 50+% of rounds during the month without getting flagged repeatedly as a pool hopper**. Days do not need to be consecutive.

Users who are caught cheating or otherwise attempting to defraud the pool and/or contest will be immediately disqualified from the contest and likely have their account, IP address, email account and/or walletID banned.

My fault, didn't see that in the post.

Quote
And the 2nd note, which is attached to the "flagged repeatedly as a pool hopper":
Quote
** Users who are donating may not get their shares reduced by anti-pool hopping measures, but will still be ineligible for the contest if they would have been flagged as a pool hopper had they not been donating, if donations allow for exclusion of penalties.


Well yes, but my point was that anti hopping measures were affecting donating miners (me) even before you made them public. I thought you were ok with hopping and had given you a 2% donation from the start. I wouldn't be too happy mining anywhere pool ops trialled things like this before they told the miners.

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geebus
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September 09, 2011, 05:15:56 AM
 #53

Well yes, but my point was that anti hopping measures were affecting donating miners (me) even before you made them public. I thought you were ok with hopping and had given you a 2% donation from the start. I wouldn't be too happy mining anywhere pool ops trialled things like this before they told the miners.

Miners who donated were excluded from being penalized. Donations exclude you from receiving a penalty, not from the measures we put in place to prevent it. We've gone on record numerous times to state our opposition to pool hoppers and have never once said we were okay with it. We simply provided an option to remove the penalty. We have since chosen to remove that option in favor of the current method... which we informed our users of immediately upon changing it, and within the first 2 hours of the round, where anti-pool hopping measures don't apply anyway.

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September 21, 2011, 01:44:00 AM
 #54

Are you guys getting DDoSed again, or is it just maintenance going on?
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