The bottom will fall out of Bitcoin soon

[freshman777]

Come July one or two chinese guys will be in uncontested control of Bitcoin.
TPTB will shut down this joke of a coin network in one hour if they think Bitcoin a threat.

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[LitcoinCollector]

Come July one or two chinese guys will be in uncontested control of Bitcoin.
TPTB will shut down this joke of a coin network in one hour if they think Bitcoin a threat.

Bitcoin is no threat, it's a toy. Even if the price doubles we are talking about 12 billion dollars... peanuts.

It's already is in hands of the chinese, and they are milking this cow like there is no tomorrow.

[freshman777]

Bitcoin is no threat, it's a toy. Even if the price doubles we are talking about 12 billion dollars... peanuts.

Further growth is impossible if the threat remains. Short of changing the hashing algo nothing can make users feel safe to invest more.

[r0ach]

Come July one or two chinese guys will be in uncontested control of Bitcoin.
TPTB will shut down this joke of a coin network in one hour if they think Bitcoin a threat.

Does the original poster really think people are going to believe the words of an account created entirely to shill IOTA?  Then the second post is another IOTA post.  You just gave up your fears that the IOTA IPO pump and dump (like NXT) will be entirely overshadowed by BTC halving.

Get it through your heads, there's no point creating brand new shill accounts pretending to be unbiased observers.  It usually has the exact opposite effect of what you desire.  Most people on the forum have an IQ over 100 and didn't just fall off a turnip truck.

[freshman777]

r0ach, your shilling Bitcoin with FUD'ing altcoins is a big disservice to n00bs. When TPTB take down Bitcoin coercing two chinese guys, you'll be personally responsible for huge losses incurred by n00bs buying into your Bitcoin hyping. Do you have a grain of personal integrity or have you been completely taken over by greed?

[r0ach]

China running Bitcoin mining today is a side effect of China controlling manufacturing of....everything on the planet.  That trade imbalance bubble will obviously come to an end in the near future, either through natural bubble popping means or by warfare or tariffs.  It's not really worth discussing because the trade imbalance effect is more implicit on our day to day lives than secondary, tiny markets like Bitcoin.

TLDR:  China, here today, gone tomorrow.  Just like the Spanish & British empire trade routes.

[freshman777]

Who cares. By the time the chinese imbalance ends Bitcoin can be long gone when all it takes to shut it down is 'asking' two chinese guys. You're not solving the problem of Bitcoin with fuding altcoins, all you're doing is pumping it for personal gains and dumping on unsuspecting n00bs. Shame on you.

[target]

Doesn't matter the price will still burst. And the Chinese will always treat coins as toys even to the new ones that just started spurt out today. Do you think they won't mine anything?
They've already started mining ETH as far as I know. And most likely, they would dump that shit even before it matures.

[r0ach]

Who cares. By the time the chinese imbalance ends Bitcoin can be long gone when all it takes to shut it down is 'asking' two chinese guys. You're not solving the problem of Bitcoin with fuding altcoins, all you're doing is pumping it for personal gains and dumping on unsuspecting n00bs. Shame on you.

You're an IOTA shill trying to dump your IPO on noobs and a BTC bull run that craters alts makes your task difficult.  All IPOs are scams designed to enrich the coin issuer, just like central banks.  You're not fooling anyone with your brand new spam account and primitive attacks, you're just making the coin you're trying to shill for look bad.

Please tell me, who throughout history has issued currency for profit besides central bankers?  No wonder Come from Beyond wants to remain anonymous, because he wants to profit by impersonating a central banker and the legal system will eventually annihilate people doing such things.  

PoS is a closed loop, recursive, permissioned ledger.  I can just corner the market on coins and if anyone requires them, I can now extort them because there is no entry point into the system besides the extortioners.  IOTA shares a similar fate.  With unprofitable mining and no block rewards, you just issue the coin supply yourself, effortlessly create a monopoly out of thin air, attempt to pump the price, and now if anyone requires IOTA for some particular reason, you now get to extort them.  In this regard, IOTA is also a permissioned ledger because there's no entry point into the system besides the extortioners.

In PoW, the coins are constantly being recycled by transaction fees acting as mining reward, meaning there is always a permissionless entry point.  There is no permanent rich get richer scheme with interest or permanently cornered supply and extortion scheme from day one like IOTA.

[TPTB_need_war]

IOTA shares a similar fate.  With unprofitable mining and no block rewards, you just issue the coin supply yourself, effortlessly create a monopoly out of thin air, attempt to pump the price, and now if anyone requires IOTA for some particular reason, you now get to extort them.  In this regard, IOTA is also a permissioned ledger because there's no entry point into the system besides the extortioners.

In PoW, the coins are constantly being recycled by transaction fees acting as mining reward, meaning there is always a permissionless entry point.

r0ach your analysis is incomplete.

Users could gain any crypto-currency by working and being paid in that crypto-currency. Please make it clear that you are referring to a cyrpto-currency which is targeted to investors (speculators) who thus have no way to obtain coins except to buy them in an ICO, because there are no coins created to pay miners and there are no transaction fees (except if IOTA ends up requiring centralization to enforce the Monte-Carlo algorithm as I allege, in which case those centralized servers could demand fees).

Again if the goal was to distribute the coin to the users and not to speculators, the unprofitable mining would not necessarily be a hindrance. And if those users then sold their coins to speculators on exchanges, then there is not a problem.

Your problem with IOTA is its distribution scheme is ICO, not whether the mining is unprofitable. Please don't conflate orthogonal issues.

This is important, becuse otherwise you will misunderstand my coin's design and make a mistake that will cost you a lost opportunity.

[freshman777]

r0ach, you can't quote me pumping IOTA because I don't. The difference between us I understand flaws of coins and raise valid concerns, you ignore that and pump the flawed Bitcoin to dump on n00bs.

[r0ach]

Users could gain any crypto-currency by working and being paid in that crypto-currency. Please make it clear that you are referring to a cyrpto-currency which is targeted to investors (speculators) who thus have no way to obtain coins except to buy them in an ICO

If people wanted to be paid in IOTA, they will in some way have to go through the Come from Beyond Russian extortion scheme, directly or indirectly.  He is impersonating a central banker after all and cornered the market on day one.  There is no way around that fact.  We might as well call him Czar from Beyond.

The value of currency is denominated entirely by network effect.  If only one person owns it, the value is zero.  If only two or two hundred people own it, the value is still only slightly above zero.  Given the fact that for the value to increase, it requires millions of participants to willingly submit to an extortion scheme, the whole thing becomes a joke.

You didn't define your example well enough for me to comment.  When you say "users gain crypto-currency by working", you could mean almost anything, including strange proof of economic activity systems like in NEM.  Whether it's a central banker power grab scheme or not probably hinges entirely on whether the coins are distributed by a single entity or the protocol itself.

[TPTB_need_war]

Users could gain any crypto-currency by working and being paid in that crypto-currency. Please make it clear that you are referring to a cyrpto-currency which is targeted to investors (speculators) who thus have no way to obtain coins except to buy them in an ICO

The value of currency is denominated entirely by network effect.  If only one person owns it, the value is zero.  If only two or two hundred people own it, the value is still only slightly above zero.  Given the fact that for the value to increase, it requires millions of participants to willingly submit to an extortion scheme, the whole thing becomes a joke.

You are repeating what I already wrote. If the tokens are widely distributed, it doesn't matter if there is ongoing debasement. You are talking about the initial distribution. That is why I said don't conflate unprofitable mining, because that is orthogonal to your point. If you don't understand, you will need to wait for my white paper, because I don't have time to go back and forth with you on this right now.

You didn't define your example well enough for me to comment.  When you say "users gain crypto-currency by working", you could mean almost anything, including strange proof of economic activity systems like in NEM

I mean literally doing work that humans normally do and getting paid in tokens instead of fiat.

[TPTB_need_war]

TPTB will shut down this joke of a coin network in one hour if they think Bitcoin a threat.

TPTB created Bitcoin. Have you not seen what Larry Summers is up to:

Familiarize yourself with 21 Inc.

Relevant:

Larry Summers to Speak about Bitcoin at Consensus 2016

They won't kill their masterplan to undermine existing financial systems with Bitcoin to drive the world towards eliminating physical cash so that all transactions can be tracked by the world government.

[kiklo]

Who cares. By the time the chinese imbalance ends Bitcoin can be long gone when all it takes to shut it down is 'asking' two chinese guys. You're not solving the problem of Bitcoin with fuding altcoins, all you're doing is pumping it for personal gains and dumping on unsuspecting n00bs. Shame on you.

PoS is a closed loop, recursive, permissioned ledger.  I can just corner the market on coins and if anyone requires them, I can now extort them because there is no entry point into the system besides the extortioners.  IOTA shares a similar fate.  With unprofitable mining and no block rewards, you just issue the coin supply yourself, effortlessly create a monopoly out of thin air, attempt to pump the price, and now if anyone requires IOTA for some particular reason, you now get to extort them.  In this regard, IOTA is also a permissioned ledger because there's no entry point into the system besides the extortioners.

In PoW, the coins are constantly being recycled by transaction fees acting as mining reward, meaning there is always a permissionless entry point.  There is no permanent rich get richer scheme with interest or permanently cornered supply and extortion scheme from day one like IOTA.

Ok,

So you're saying PoS is a permissioned ledger and PoW is permissionless legder.

Sorry , calling Bullshit on that.

You act like the Proof of Stake guy will just Hoard it and never spend any.
All that does is make the remaining Proof of Stake coins more valuable and makes everyone else holding , hold tighter.
But they can still spend their Staked rewards and leave their principle untouched.
So their staked rewards flow out into the populace, where they can be purchased and staked again.
So permissioned ledger theory. BUSTED!!!!

As to your comment : PoW is permissionless legder
That is a Real Joke.
Economics make PoW mining harder to enter into than PoS staking even now.

Proof of stake buy the coin from the exchange, transfer to personal wallet and let Stake, Easy and done.

Proof of Work ,
1. Buy a warehouse
2. Spend 1 million dollars buying ASICS
3. Spend thousand of dollars on electricity & IT Support Staff
4. Setup Website and system so others can buy shares into your BTC mining operation, because you make more money from the suckers that buy cloud mining than you do from mining BTC itself.
(If that does not make a lightbulb in your head Light up, well there's no hope for you.)
5. Pray for a Miracle , so the next halving does not end your Business models , because you can't afford to keep upgrading the ASICS  

There is no Proof of Stake coin, that I cannot enter at this point in time.

You could not enter the BTC mining for less than ~1 million bucks.
You can claim , that you could be 1 of the suckers that goes into PoW cloud mining,
keyword suckers , they don't even Break even before the difficulty makes their mining shares sterile.

   

FYI:
Some of the comments you guys make, kills me   .
As if it is so easy to corner a market or so easy to short sell a coin.
1. The more you try and corner a market the more impossible it becomes as you increase the cost of whatever you are buying.
2. Short Selling can destroy a coin, LOL. TRY IT.  
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-you-should-never-short-sell-stocks-2015-11-19

[LitcoinCollector]

Come July one or two chinese guys will be in uncontested control of Bitcoin.
TPTB will shut down this joke of a coin network in one hour if they think Bitcoin a threat.

Does the original poster really think people are going to believe the words of an account created entirely to shill IOTA?  Then the second post is another IOTA post.  You just gave up your fears that the IOTA IPO pump and dump (like NXT) will be entirely overshadowed by BTC halving.

Get it through your heads, there's no point creating brand new shill accounts pretending to be unbiased observers.  It usually has the exact opposite effect of what you desire.  Most people on the forum have an IQ over 100 and didn't just fall off a turnip truck.

Please stay on topic.

[Spoetnik]

Come July one or two chinese guys will be in uncontested control of Bitcoin.
TPTB will shut down this joke of a coin network in one hour if they think Bitcoin a threat.

Does the original poster really think people are going to believe the words of an account created entirely to shill IOTA?  Then the second post is another IOTA post.  You just gave up your fears that the IOTA IPO pump and dump (like NXT) will be entirely overshadowed by BTC halving.

Get it through your heads, there's no point creating brand new shill accounts pretending to be unbiased observers.  It usually has the exact opposite effect of what you desire.  Most people on the forum have an IQ over 100 and didn't just fall off a turnip truck.

Please stay on topic.

That is garbage posting and your also not a moderator and further more..
You are bumping your own topic using an alternate account.

CLOWN .

Guys don't give this scammy prick ETH spammer the satisfaction of creating a parody topic for attention.
Duh.. he seen the other one then went and created an opposite topic..
So he can try an push his usual idiotic bullshit commentary about scam coins and how their so legit.
Arguing with this noob dummy account is a waste of time.. he has no cred.

[r0ach]

Please stay on topic.

Very well, I created an on-topic discussion:

IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1414866.0

[LitcoinCollector]

Please stay on topic.

Very well, I created an on-topic discussion:

IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1414866.0

You do understand that staying on topic and creating your own topic is not the same...

[r0ach]

You do understand that staying on topic and creating your own topic is not the same...

The creator of this thread created it as a parody of my thread called "The bottom will drop out of the alt market soon" in order for him to try and pump some random crapcoin called IOTA.  Meaning this is just a random jibberish side thread of my own thread where he tries to mislead viewers into believing the opposite of reality:

It begins.  Man the alt lifeboats.

Ethbutters, Madeunsafecoin, New Crashing Economy Movement, and Radioactive coin taking a beating in the market.

[kiklo]

Please stay on topic.

Very well, I created an on-topic discussion:

IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1414866.0

You do understand that staying on topic and creating your own topic is not the same...

IMO,
r0ach real goals seems to be about sprouting the nonsense about what is a permission or permission less ledger.
I don't think he is worried about anything else.

 

[LCSociety]

I see plenty of ground left for bitcoin to cover

The large holders that cashed out throughout 2015 have already began to fire up the rainmaking machine to collect a second helping of profit

Bitcoin's best days are still yet to come, just based on the institutions that are so clearly involved

[SwedishGirl]

I see plenty of ground left for bitcoin to cover

The large holders that cashed out throughout 2015 have already began to fire up the rainmaking machine to collect a second helping of profit

Bitcoin's best days are still yet to come, just based on the institutions that are so clearly involved

Something is cooking with the whole Craig Wright fiasco and it does not smell good. Seams like the beginning of an organized FUD attempt just before the halving.

[BitcoinNational]

it is not FUD
it is the THUD of reality creeping in
the reality of Alts ... see ETH, LTC, l'Doge and the 2.0 DAOs banging on the door
and 100s of shitcoins that just won't die!

the big money is either:
a. dead set on capturing BTC meaning fork as we please when we please (good luck with that MIT bald heads)
b. fuck this shit we'll make our own ETH-steallar-bts

the reality is:
the ALts have survived undercapitalized 1:7000 for nearly 3 years

the BTC will reward #1800 new coins per day until 2020 and that's crazy amounts of new capital to find each and every day @$500/coin or even $99/coin ...

just to transmit value ... so those surviving Alts are looking like much better 'investments' ... whereas BTC is just 'the Tool' to move the big chucks of dollars or yuans.

so you will get and endless cycle of fiasco and finger pointing
so the rats can bail

BTC ain't goin away
but it needs to realize that it CAN NOT FORK, and the alts have done and will continue to do the innovations

[mobnepal]

I see plenty of ground left for bitcoin to cover

The large holders that cashed out throughout 2015 have already began to fire up the rainmaking machine to collect a second helping of profit

Bitcoin's best days are still yet to come, just based on the institutions that are so clearly involved

Something is cooking with the whole Craig Wright fiasco and it does not smell good. Seams like the beginning of an organized FUD attempt just before the halving.

This FUD attempt for this year have already been well held down by some of the cleaver developer. But still this will remain undisclosed and full of curosity is craig the real satoshi and if he is than did he will move those large no of coins to market to pay his debt? This will determine the future of both bitcoin and altcoin. I am holding my coin for the time being.

[BitcoinNational]

lol
The bottom will drop out of the alt market soon https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1413819.0

exact same topic (reversio) ... complete with TLDR; nit picky semantic debates ... and higher IQs 2 ... all BTC maximilist have such higher IQs 

[BitcoinNational]

Proof of stake buy the coin from the exchange, transfer to personal wallet and let Stake, Easy and done.

Proof of Work ,
1. Buy a warehouse
2. Spend 1 million dollars buying ASICS
3. Spend thousand of dollars on electricity & IT Support Staff
4. Setup Website and system so others can buy shares into your BTC mining operation, because you make more money from the suckers that buy cloud mining than you do from mining BTC itself.
(If that does not make a lightbulb in your head Light up, well there's no hope for you.)
5. Pray for a Miracle , so the next halving does not end your Business models , because you can't afford to keep upgrading the ASICS  

There is no Proof of Stake coin, that I cannot enter at this point in time.

You could not enter the BTC mining for less than ~1 million bucks.

this is what ... common sense?

the current BTC model is exactly as kiklo states above:

mine (HODL)
pump/dump get $
buy the newest ASIC tech, expand dominance in #/blocks earned/day
pray and hope your multimillion$ mine farm out survives the competition for the next hype cycle
[repeat]

and we are at the Nth stage, you can only compete in China or Iceland or Washington St. (read cheapest cost to run and cool your peta flops on EARTH) ... it ... is ... DONE ... unless someone discovers bigger rivers to dam ... end game is here

SMART money is jumping onto the NXT 2.0 train out of Satoshi Town
BTC mining is going to go thru a very bloody consolidation of profitable operations (some time in the next 8 years)
The market will dump, as it was designed, redistribute, and accumulate into the hands of fools silly enough to grab at a $7B knife falling.

---
the likely evolution is for ASIC to operate co-currently as a mine and supercomputer
so ETH but with partitioning and ASIC P/H power!

the engines powering BTC will burn out (else need to seriously be reduced in operating costs)
if the eggheads must have a $1M/day hashing machine ... they better act fast and invent their own ETH

[redcow]

In the long term, Bitcoin will gain more value..

[stoat]

Buy ETH.  ETH is the lifeboat.  Btc is dead duck

[freshman777]

Buy ETH.  ETH is the lifeboat.  Btc is dead duck

I'll buy some when it dips to $3 in summer, thanks.

[stoat]

Buy ETH.  ETH is the lifeboat.  Btc is dead duck

I'll buy some when it dips to $3 in summer, thanks.

You'll be waiting forever.

[freshman777]

Buy ETH.  ETH is the lifeboat.  Btc is dead duck

I'll buy some when it dips to $3 in summer, thanks.

You'll be waiting forever.

Sometimes waiting for summer feels like forever