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Author Topic: "Introducing Amazon Coins: A New Virtual Currency for Kindle Fire"  (Read 3210 times)
Rassah
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February 07, 2013, 02:05:09 AM
 #21

So, it's just like paying with your credit card the way you do now, except more complicated, involves you paying more than what you actually need to buy, forces you to trust someone else to hold on to your money, and gives you coins that you can't sell back, which are completely useless outside of Amazon. Is it just me, or does this seem like a totally useless idea that misses all the points of having a virtual currency?

Quote from: ...!
And Rassah can list all those disadvantages of using the Amazon coins and seemingly forgetting that most of those drawbacks are also true of bitcoins. Hell, some of them are actually much worse with bitcoins.

Quote from: fade5
How is it possible to be that loving dense? Seriously, how the gently caress can he not see that you could make those exact same claims about Bitcoin?

LOL! See, this is why dumbass goons are dumbasses, can't see past their cloistered clusterfuck bubble, and will likely never get Bitcoin. Here is how Bitcoin is different from every claim above:

Bitcoins can be used in ways that credit cards can not (fully verifiable within minutes instead of days, anonymously, internationally for almost no fees, to all countries, and for products and services that may otherwise be banned). AmazonCoins have no benefit over credit cards, while bitcoins have benefits that credit cards simply can't accommodate.
You only need to buy the amount of bitcoins you intend to spend, since they are so divisible, instead of having to buy, say, $20 worth of AmazonCoins, and sitting on them until you use them up. If you don't want to hold bitcoins, you can buy the exact amount needed and pay for the service in a matter of minutes.
You don't need to trust anyone to hold your money with bitcoin. That's kinda the whole point of the "be your own bank" claim. My bitcoins don't depend on whether a company goes under or gets hacked.
If I don't want my bitcoins any more, I can always sell them back for cash, and into almost any currency I want. I'm not forced to sit on them until something I want to buy from one specific market comes along.
I can use my bitcoins on any product or service that takes bitcoins, or convert them into cash and use them for anything at all, which is completely not like AmazonCoins.

So, no, none of those disadvantages are present in Bitcoin. You fail, dumbass.

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Monster Tent
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February 07, 2013, 03:11:11 AM
 #22

Amazon and Apple will never accept bitcoin because they cant take their 30% cut.

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February 07, 2013, 11:48:34 AM
 #23

Am I the only one who thinks this kind of thing is good?

This kind of "store credit" with a static exchange rate is the best way to avoid bitcoin's scalability problems.

Imagine one Facebook Bitcoin wallet. Now shops that also have such a wallet would be able to interact without going through the block chain.
Having a hosted wallet with every shop would not make that much sense. Sure, for Amazon it would work but not for my bakery or other small entities.

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February 07, 2013, 11:53:40 AM
 #24

I really hat a laugh at this one: http://www.cabume.co.uk/blog/amazons-new-coins-why-banks-and-governments-should-be-worried-about-the-new-currency.html

Headline:

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Amazon's new Coins: Why banks (and governments) should be worried about the new currency

All previous versions of currency will no longer be supported as of this update
Anon136
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February 07, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
 #25

customer loyalty points really could be the currency to replace USD.

I imagine a scenario where we are experiencing hyperinflation and no one wants dollars. So walmart starts issuing its own credit in the form of walmart points. walmart prices items in the sore in walmart points and disseminates these coupons into the economy by paying its employees in walmart points. Every other store follows suit and eventually everyone gets payed in credit from the company they work for.

Next complex markets develop that allow people to trade their amazon points for walmart points or target points for microsoft points. So if you work for amazon but you need food not books, you take your amazon credit and trade it with a walmart employee who does have enough food but would like more books

it would be a bit like the early gold backed currency. Except this currency would be issued privately and backed by the assets of the issuing party, what ever those assets may be.

these amazon points could be the humble beginnings of what i just described. Amazon points could be a much bigger deal than bitcoin, not on the merits they themselves currently have but in the trend that they are shaping.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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February 07, 2013, 02:33:44 PM
 #26


So walmart starts issuing its own credit in the form of walmart points. walmart prices items in the sore in walmart points and disseminates these coupons into the economy by paying its employees in walmart points.

I think this sort of thing was outlawed in the US a while back.

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Anon136
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February 07, 2013, 02:55:46 PM
 #27


So walmart starts issuing its own credit in the form of walmart points. walmart prices items in the sore in walmart points and disseminates these coupons into the economy by paying its employees in walmart points.

I think this sort of thing was outlawed in the US a while back.

you dont think walmart and amazon and target and ebay and ect... all combined have the power to repeal a us law?

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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February 07, 2013, 03:23:46 PM
 #28


So walmart starts issuing its own credit in the form of walmart points. walmart prices items in the sore in walmart points and disseminates these coupons into the economy by paying its employees in walmart points.

I think this sort of thing was outlawed in the US a while back.

And as long as the Walmart points keep their value, everyone is happy. But soon, some smart kid starts buying Walmart points for an advantageous exchange rate to the USD, and at that point the Walmart points either lose or gain ground. If they lose it, employees choose to stop working for Walmart, or start buying EVERYTHING at Walmart at the nominal Walmart points value, then sell it for something other than that outside of Walmart, causing Walmart to incur enormous costs just to keep the points going.

If Walmart was the only game in town (say, the way the Cuban government is the only game in Cuba) this might work for a while. But since Walmart has competitors, eventually the forces would tend to balance out.

NOTHING rises faster than a black market, even when technically it isn't black.

CliffordM
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February 07, 2013, 04:54:15 PM
 #29

The best part has to be the name.  Amazon are implicitly recognising to BitCoin.

paultramarine
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February 07, 2013, 05:45:13 PM
 #30

I blame this on all of you people* who wrote to Amazon desperately pleading for them to accept bitcoin. You have given them a terrible idea.

LOL! Best comment I've read tooday  Grin

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Rassah
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February 07, 2013, 07:40:50 PM
 #31

Quote from: ...!
I'm beginning to think Rassah is genuinely retarded.

Nah, I just have an IQ that's, what you might call "a bit higher than normal," which sometimes makes others think I'm insane. I'm kinda used to it by now  Roll Eyes

Quote from: ...!
Quote from: Rassah
Bitcoins can be used in ways that credit cards can not (fully verifiable within minutes instead of days, anonymously, internationally for almost no fees, to all countries, and for products and services that may otherwise be banned). AmazonCoins have no benefit over credit cards,

That's like saying gift cards have no benefit over credit cards. Way to compare apples and oranges. And how could you not think that, to use your words, using bitcoins is "just like paying with your credit card the way you do now, except more complicated." I'd add the word "needlessly" in front of "complicated." Why the fuck would anyone go through the hassle of doing this shit every time they want to buy something? Oh, that's right; they wouldn't. Well, they probably would if they got trapped within the echo chamber that is bitcointalk.

So, in other words, you agree with me, that Bitcoin and AmazonCoin are like apples to oranges, and that  no one would go through the trouble of buying AmazonCoins, when they can just use credit cards. As for why the fuck would anyone go through the shit of buying Bitcoins every time? I listed the reasons above in parenthesis. Try to use your credit card to buy something from Russia or India, or to buy something for $0.20 or for $20,000, or try to use it to pay for an online poker account, or an NNTP account. Or hey, try to set up a Reddit tipping bot that works entirely in software, and sends money tips back and forth without needing to have a bank account tied to someone's name. You'll get a total of jack shit accomplished using traditional credit cards. So going through the hastle of getting Bitcoins is your ONLY option for those things.

Quote from: ...!
Quote from: Rassah
You only need to buy the amount of bitcoins you intend to spend, since they are so divisible, instead of having to buy, say, $20 worth of AmazonCoins, and sitting on them until you use them up. If you don't want to hold bitcoins, you can buy the exact amount needed and pay for the service in a matter of minutes.

The problem here is bitcoin's unstable exchange rate. Who the fuck knows that those $20 worth of bitcoins you just bought aren't going to drop to $10 in the few minutes it would take to spend them? You can't. You know exactly what you're getting with AmazonCoins, since they've pegged it to the dollar.

First, that's a problem of still low adoption rate, not an inherent problem with Bitcoin. the more people use it, the less the exchange rate will fluctuate. And FYI, the problem isn't limited to Bitcoin. When I worked for a candy company based in US that ordered it's stuff from factories in Germany and Hungary, we REPEATEDLY gained or lost about $20,000 every month due to the fluctuating rate between US Dollars and Euros. So, who the fuck knows that those $1000 worth of Euros you just bought aren't going to drop $100 by the end of the day? I guess Euros and USD are shit and shouldn't be used, either  Roll Eyes Besides, many Bitcoin based stores allow you up to 10 minutes to pay for a product to an address they generate specifically for you. Don't like price fluctuations? Order something, see that it costs 3.45BTC, go to MtGox, use the USD you have sitting there to buy EXACTLY 3.45BTC worth (will take you a second), and use that BTC to buy your product. If you don't trust MtGox, keep your money in Dwolla. It'll take an extra 1 minute to transfer from Dwolla to Gox.Sure, it's a little more difficult, but keep in mind, there's no such service for USD/EUR that would allow you to swap between the currencies that quickly and easily, and for only 0.6% fee.


Quote from: ...!
Quote from: Rassah
If I don't want my bitcoins any more, I can always sell them back for cash, and into almost any currency I want.

Good fucking luck with that. What are your options? You could either cash them out via Empty Gox or you could spend a lot of time looking for someone local to buy them from you. Either way, you're spending a lot of time and you have no idea ahead of time whether you're getting the entire amount of USD back.

What the fuck are you talking about? I can drop them at MtGox, Bitfloor, or about 5 other exchanges, and sell the entire amount instantly. I just cashed out about $6,000 on Gox today, it took me all of less than 1 minute, and the price didn't even move. It's no more difficult that pulling your money out of PayPal.

Quote from: ...!
Quote from: Rassah
I'm not forced to sit on them until something I want to buy from one specific market comes along.

OK, you say that but then you immediately follow it up with:

Quote from: Rassah
I can use my bitcoins on any product or service that takes bitcoins,

When you use the qualifier "that takes bitcoins," you contradict your previous statement. What do you think the bitcoin ecosystem is? It's one specific market. That's it. You can't spend them outside of the few dinky little bitcoin merchants, most of whom are super shady.

WTF? The Bitcoin ecosystem is "one specific market" in the same way the USD is "one specific market." I.e. it's not, and that doesn't even make any fucking sense. I can use BTC at hunders of COMPETING stores, all around the world. If one place is too expensive, or looks too shady, I can go to another one. Best of all, if I have to buy something that's only available in USD or EUR, I still have the option to spend my BTC on that, though with having to go through an exchange. With Amazon I am really only limited to one single store, i.e. one market. No other choice whatsoever. I think you may be confusing "market" with "economy" here. AmazonCoins are limited to one market. Bitcoins are limited to the world economy. It's really RIDICULOUSLY stupid how you guys keep saying "you can't buy shit with Bitcoins." I can buy anything I fucking want if I have bitcoin. It's like you guys think we can't convert them into USD or EUR, and that we're cheating if we do. Seriously, The Bible gloating about how "But they didn't REALLY buy that with Bitcoin, they converted it to USD first!" was rather *wtfhuh???*

Quote from: ...!
Quote from: Rassah
So, no, none of those disadvantages are present in Bitcoin. You fail, dumbass.

Like I said, not all, but most of those points you brought up can be used against bitcoins. That's not even getting into the other really terrible aspects of bitcoins, like the inherent deflation and the lack of consumer protections like chargebacks.

If you want consumer protections, like chargebacks, you can pay a 3% fee for that. You actually already do, every time you use your credit card (the fee is just hidden in the price of the goods you buy). If you want the same protections with Bitcoin, just pay that same fee, and use an escrow. Credit cards force you to pay for the chargeback protection fee whether you want it or not. Bitcoin gives you the option to buy it (escrow) or not. And none of those points can be used against Bitcoin, except "Waaaaah! it's inconvenient to buy it!  Cry" Yes, Credit Cards are a hell of a lot easier to use than Bitcoin. But that's for now. And only for some things. What you can't use credit cards for, your only option is Bitcoin. At the same time, there really is NOTHING that you can buy with AmazonCoins that you can't also buy with a credit card. That may change later, but I really doubt it.


By the way, I'd love to know where the hell you guys keep getting the idea that you can use bitcoin to pay for kiddie porn. You keep saying that, like it's an accepted trust, but no one has ever presented any evidence. Porn is typically free, anyway, so I highly doubt those claims.
When I mentioned "products or services that may be banned," I was thinking along the lines of online gambling, donations to Wikileaks, illegal drugs and Canadian prescriptions, and even things like online file storage, Bittorrent sites, and NNTP access, which are some of the services that recently had VISA and PayPal block all payments to. Kiddie porn? Please...  Roll Eyes

It's also pretty dumb that The Bible keeps claiming that "All Bitcoins are vallued in USD." I'm sure the people who live in Germany, Finland, Japan, China, Brazil, Russia, Canada, and India who use bitcoin regularly also value their Bitcoin in USD. It's very "Amuhrican" of him. Roll Eyes His whole "Bitcoin is literally backed by USD" tripe is "literally" the most retarded example of economics I've seen out there. Someone should PLEASE tell him that all Euros and Yen are literally backed by USD, and have no value, because you can't spend them where he lives.

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