BTC prise isnt rising! USD is loosing value, thats all!

[sublime5447]

Well seeing that i sold 125k of boat parts last year I dont think that is the problem. Sorry i cant sell weed on the SR. My products are in demand they sell in dollars. The problem is the coin isnt acting like money.

And how many people who have Bitcoins to spend own boats?  Boat parts is a specialized niche of activity.  It doesn't appeal to many people.  When you take a small subset of the entire population of the world and offer a niche product to that subset, you're probably not going to get much in the way of sales unless it's steeply discounted or the products are specific to that subset (i.e., a subset of fishermen, for example).

The subset of Bitcoiners has nothing to do with boating, so you can't expect much in the way of sales until that subset grows much larger.  Instead, work on offering products relevant to that subset (gambling seems to be a big boon, or computer hardware, other electronics, etc).

I also sell btc on ebay and facebook for paypal. I think I have a good grasp on the number and experience of new users. I am one of the only places on the internet that you can get btc almost instantly. I say the market is way over valued. 

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[notme]

Well seeing that i sold 125k of boat parts last year I dont think that is the problem. Sorry i cant sell weed on the SR. My products are in demand they sell in dollars. The problem is the coin isnt acting like money.

And how many people who have Bitcoins to spend own boats?  Boat parts is a specialized niche of activity.  It doesn't appeal to many people.  When you take a small subset of the entire population of the world and offer a niche product to that subset, you're probably not going to get much in the way of sales unless it's steeply discounted or the products are specific to that subset (i.e., a subset of fishermen, for example).

The subset of Bitcoiners has nothing to do with boating, so you can't expect much in the way of sales until that subset grows much larger.  Instead, work on offering products relevant to that subset (gambling seems to be a big boon, or computer hardware, other electronics, etc).

I also sell btc on ebay and facebook for paypal. I think I have a good grasp on the number and experience of new users. I am one of the only places on the internet that you can get btc almost instantly. I say the market is way over valued. 

Good luck with that.  I hope you like being overwhelmed with chargebacks followed by Paypal clawing back the money from your linked bank account.

[sublime5447]

I dont get charged back or i almost never get charged back. You can go to bitcoin friends and look under our photos our buying guide is there.

[sublime5447]

I dont get charged back or i almost never get charged back. You can go to bitcoin friends and look under our photos our buying guide is there.

there is a link under my name to my bitcoin friends page.

[notme]

I dont get charged back or i almost never get charged back. You can go to bitcoin friends and look under our photos our buying guide is there.

Cool story.  You are breaking Paypal's terms of service.  If you ever have a problem you will quickly discover how they feel about bitcoin traders.

[sublime5447]

they dont care. I sell btc on ebay np. When I sell btc on facebook they get paid too. You guys have PP all wrong. I have talked to them on the phone about 20 times about selling btc. If I am willing to secure my transactions and can do it in a way that my account isnt compromised they dont care. Why would they if I get charged back I take the loss and they still get their fees. They wont freeze my account I have cabbage loans tied to them. I am probably one of 3 or 4 who know how to sell on ebay. Plus I tell PP what accounts to watch for fraud and i email member when I find their accounts have been hacked.
 

[notme]

they dont care. I sell btc on ebay np. When I sell btc on facebook they get paid too. You guys have PP all wrong. I have talked to them on the phone about 20 times about selling btc. If I am willing to secure my transactions and can do it in a way that my account isnt compromised they dont care. Why would they if I get charged back I take the loss and they still get their fees. They wont freeze my account I have cabbage loans tied to them. I am probably one of 3 or 4 who know how to sell on ebay. Plus I tell PP what accounts to watch for fraud and i email member when I find their accounts have been hacked.
 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2555.msg101084#msg101084

[sublime5447]

Ya I have seen that before. It doesnt concern me at all. If I get to where I am doing coinbase volume then I might have to rethink it. I am not an exchange I sell btc as a commodity. It is scale-able the way that I do it though. My vision would be a network of sellers selling through FB with a master scamming list. Sellers would get clients based on geography. For instance fs someone messaged me and had a NY address I would pass them off to a seller from their area, (maybe for a referral fee)?   

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment. Specifically people can start saying what can I do for bitcoin not what can bitcoin do for me, but that is not going to happen. What is going to happen is another coin will compete with bitcoin driving the price way down and crushing a lot people in the process. Bitcoins are just hot potatoes right now someone is going to get burned. Deals aren't good deals if they aren't good for everyone. What I am complaining about is not "just the way it has to be" it is just the way users have made it. Bitcoin can and will do better it just might have to be forced into doing what is right.

LOL

If you seriously believe this, then let's bet mtGox USD (w/ escrow) that another cryptocurrency will have a higher market capitalization than Bitcoin in the next year.

If you don't take up this offer, please disappear from this thread.

1. Another coin will compete with bitcoin:
How? Something like 99% of the development is done with bitcoin, not [insert alt coin here].

2. Speculative investment:
So is gold. Now if you take a look at the history of gold...

3. Bitcoin are just hot potatoes right now:
Subjective comment that makes no sense.

[sublime5447]

I never put a time line on it. No bitcoin is the most popular right now. I am not interested in your bet and dont agree with your statement. The difference between gold and bitcoin is that gold is actually usable in the real world also there is a finite about of gold. That is not true of bitcoin. Bitcoins being hot potatoes makes perfect sense. I am not holding btc right now because the price is to crazy. I sell btc to the general public and cant do it because the price changes to often by too much, plus it is way over valued right now.   

[notme]

I never put a time line on it. No bitcoin is the most popular right now. I am not interested in your bet and dont agree with your statement. The difference between gold and bitcoin is that gold is actually usable in the real world also there is a finite about of gold. That is not true of bitcoin. Bitcoins being hot potatoes makes perfect sense. I am not holding btc right now because the price is to crazy. I sell btc to the general public and cant do it because the price changes to often by too much, plus it is way over valued right now.   

I find it much easier to trade my bitcoins for goods than to get someone to accept my gold in exchange.  If you're claiming bitcoin isn't finite that is false as well.  There will never be more than 21 million btc.

[sublime5447]

21 million divided by what? there are basically infinite number of coins or hundreths of coins or thousandths of coins or billionths of a coins it is just numbers. How many numbers are there? I guess you could say the same about gold though when it got to thousandths of a gram I think people might start to think there was nothing there. The point is gold is real bitcoin it just and idea in the cloud just 1's and 0's. 

[notme]

21 million divided by what? there are basically infinite number of coins or hundreths of coins or thousandths of coins or billionths of a coins it is just numbers. How many numbers are there? I guess you could say the same about gold though when it got to thousandths of a gram I think people might start to think there was nothing there. The point is gold is real bitcoin it just and idea in the cloud just 1's and 0's. 

21 million whole coins * 10,000,000 satoshis per bitcoin.  Still not infinite.  Being physical makes transacting in gold, as well as trusting the purity of an individual piece of metal a major challenge.  Bitcoin doesn't have these problems.

[sublime5447]

I agree bitcoin has it's own problems. Money is a promise there is no need for a physical representation of money. Digital money is great, but it is not gold it is not silver it is not a retirement investment it will not go up forever 50 years from now bitcoin will be a memory. I love the idea of digital money I truly believe it is going to change the world, bitcoin will be a part of that.   

[SgtSpike]

21 million divided by what? there are basically infinite number of coins or hundreths of coins or thousandths of coins or billionths of a coins it is just numbers. How many numbers are there? I guess you could say the same about gold though when it got to thousandths of a gram I think people might start to think there was nothing there. The point is gold is real bitcoin it just and idea in the cloud just 1's and 0's. 

Why does it matter how many decimal places you can divide a Bitcoin into?  1 Bitcoin is still 1 Bitcoin, just like 1 ounce of gold is still 1 ounce of gold.  Just because you can divide it into lots of little pieces doesn't make it any more common.

[sublime5447]

It doesnt unless you think about it in physical terms. If you divided one gram of gold a thousands times you would have a grain of gold if you multiplied it thousand time you would have a brick. I you divide or multiply bitcoin you will have numbers and just numbers. I am a huge fan of bitcoin. I just think people believe it to be something it is not. I see lots of post with 1000 dollar btc or my favorite "I think we are all going to retire very wealth men" or something like that. BTC is not wealth and it is not scarce it is not the last digital currency either. Just because something is unavailable doesn't make it scarce ( at least not in aggregate). Just because the TP is down the hall from me when I take a dump doesn't mean it is scarce.   

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I never put a time line on it. No bitcoin is the most popular right now. I am not interested in your bet and dont agree with your statement. The difference between gold and bitcoin is that gold is actually usable in the real world also there is a finite about of gold. That is not true of bitcoin. Bitcoins being hot potatoes makes perfect sense. I am not holding btc right now because the price is to crazy. I sell btc to the general public and cant do it because the price changes to often by too much, plus it is way over valued right now.  

> I am not interested in your bet

Okay, I guess you don't want to put your money where your mouth is.

> The difference between gold and bitcoin is that gold is actually usable in the real world

Take a look at the gold ETFs. They're certainly not useable in the "real world", but look at the market cap.

> There is a finite amount of gold

There is a finite amount of real bitcoin.

> That is not true of bitcoin

Define.

> Bitcoins being hot potatoes makes perfect sense

I guess you're never going to invest in anything unless it has being around for 10 years? Don't look into the potential of Apple, instead base off your speculation off the age of the asset!  

> I am not holding btc right now because the price is to crazy

Sure, that's obviously true although if you did held it you'd have made a lot of profit.

> plus it is way over valued right now.  

Subjective opinion disguised as fact / statement.

[mb300sd]

It doesnt unless you think about it in physical terms. If you divided one gram of gold a thousands times you would have a grain of gold if you multiplied it thousand time you would have a brick. I you divide or multiply bitcoin you will have numbers and just numbers. I am a huge fan of bitcoin. I just think people believe it to be something it is not. I see lots of post with 1000 dollar btc or my favorite "I think we are all going to retire very wealth men" or something like that. BTC is not wealth and it is not scarce it is not the last digital currency either. Just because something is unavailable doesn't make it scarce ( at least not in aggregate). Just because the TP is down the hall from me when I take a dump doesn't mean it is scarce.   

It may not be scarce for everyone, but it is for you at the time... I'd bet you'd be willing to pay alot more for it when your stuck on the toilet than in the store.

[sublime5447]

It doesnt unless you think about it in physical terms. If you divided one gram of gold a thousands times you would have a grain of gold if you multiplied it thousand time you would have a brick. I you divide or multiply bitcoin you will have numbers and just numbers. I am a huge fan of bitcoin. I just think people believe it to be something it is not. I see lots of post with 1000 dollar btc or my favorite "I think we are all going to retire very wealth men" or something like that. BTC is not wealth and it is not scarce it is not the last digital currency either. Just because something is unavailable doesn't make it scarce ( at least not in aggregate). Just because the TP is down the hall from me when I take a dump doesn't mean it is scarce.   

It may not be scarce for everyone, but it is for you at the time... I'd bet you'd be willing to pay alot more for it when your stuck on the toilet than in the store.

For sure... It is artificially scarce in that situation, Just like BTC. This is an important issue. So if TP was made artificially scarce by hoarding. Yes I would be willing to pay more maybe up to five dollars a roll, but there would be a limit. So what happens here is I buy at 2 then at 4 then at 5, but that is it after that fuck TP i will use magazines. So people are willing to bear the cost up to a point scarcity is not the only factor in determining value. If the BTC community continues to treat a currency like a commodity people will find alternatives. BTC is for spending not hoarding and the guys that do are selfish trolls that are tarnishing the image of an otherwise beautiful idea.

[Peter Lambert]

For sure... It is artificially scarce in that situation, Just like BTC. This is an important issue. So if TP was made artificially scarce by hoarding. Yes I would be willing to pay more maybe up to five dollars a roll, but there would be a limit. So what happens here is I buy at 2 then at 4 then at 5, but that is it after that fuck TP i will use magazines. So people are willing to bear the cost up to a point scarcity is not the only factor in determining value. If the BTC community continues to treat a currency like a commodity people will find alternatives. BTC is for spending not hoarding and the guys that do are selfish trolls that are tarnishing the image of an otherwise beautiful idea.

You keep saying that "BTC is for spending, not hoarding", but all bitcoins must be held by somebody at all times. How do you have people spending bitcoins if there is nobody holding them?

The TP example is a bad one because TP has a specific use, and as you point out, if the price rises too much for that use case then people will find alternatives. But the same does not apply to bitcoin, no matter what the exchange rate bitcoin functions just as well for its purpose: as a currency to transfer value between people. If I want to send $5 to my friend, if BTC is $20 then I send 0.25 btc, or if BTC is $100 I send 0.05 btc, or if BTC is $0.10 then I send 50 btc. See, it does not matter what the exchange rate is, in any case I can just as easily send that value through the network to my friend, or my supplier, or whoever I need to send money to.