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Author Topic: Running Miner off of Deep cycle batteries - expected drain?  (Read 2642 times)
philipma1957
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April 09, 2016, 11:34:20 AM
 #21

Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone knows how a 12v Deep Cycle battery would do running a miner like an S5? Assume a 590 Watt draw just as a baseline. Is it as simple as pulling watt hours from the battery? IE an S5 running @ 12v using 590 watts is pulling roughly 50 AMP. Is it as simple to say that if the battery is 600 AMP it would provide 600/50= 12 hours? Deep cycle's don't really like to drop below 50% for long life. So 6 hours? I'm more concerned with my concept being incorrect than actual data numbers here.

I've seen plenty of naysayers shunning the use of batteries as they typically have voltage drop as load is applied and battery resistance rises. That is how automotive batteries work, however deep cycle are specifically designed to maintain voltage across a usage curve with a steep drop-off and resistance increase generally happening around the 80% drain mark.

Happy hunting

S5 and 165 chips batches of S7 are not happy of voltage variance caused by dis/charging. Fully charged battery at cycle charge is 14.6V, but fully discharged battery has 10.5V. S5 likes 12V at full speed, if you put 14.6V you may overheat it, side effect is much worser efficiency, growing to S3 level. Opposite, if you keep S5 running at low voltage, it will stop hashing or you need to slow it down. My S5 can work from 9V, but at slowest seed of 100MHz.

High efficiency DC/DC converter will stabilize your voltage, but it is more conversion loss and more expenses.

135 chip version of S7 has DC/DC convertor, so it can be used at voltages 11-16V. I did undervolted version of S7 which can be used from 10V.

this is why I mentioned the  gpu rig for eth coin.

right now I spend 311 watts to earn  about .44 eth coins a day that is about  0.01 btc

so 311 watts =     0.0101 btc    eth rig
590 watts     =     0.0034 btc    stock  s-5
1350 watts   =     0.0141 btc     stock s-7

so my point is  the eth rig  loses   power   solar panel to inverter say 97% eff back to atx 90%
that is 87.3 %

same battery cost


but 311 watts for 0.0101 btc
vs 1350 watts for 0.0141 btc

or 1244 watts for 0.0404 btc  eth rig rates
vs 1350 watts for 0.0141 btc  s-7 rig rates.

just saying a mix of gear here may be better then all s-7

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mrkubanftw
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April 09, 2016, 02:38:04 PM
 #22

Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone knows how a 12v Deep Cycle battery would do running a miner like an S5? Assume a 590 Watt draw just as a baseline. Is it as simple as pulling watt hours from the battery? IE an S5 running @ 12v using 590 watts is pulling roughly 50 AMP. Is it as simple to say that if the battery is 600 AMP it would provide 600/50= 12 hours? Deep cycle's don't really like to drop below 50% for long life. So 6 hours? I'm more concerned with my concept being incorrect than actual data numbers here.

I've seen plenty of naysayers shunning the use of batteries as they typically have voltage drop as load is applied and battery resistance rises. That is how automotive batteries work, however deep cycle are specifically designed to maintain voltage across a usage curve with a steep drop-off and resistance increase generally happening around the 80% drain mark.

Happy hunting

S5 and 165 chips batches of S7 are not happy of voltage variance caused by dis/charging. Fully charged battery at cycle charge is 14.6V, but fully discharged battery has 10.5V. S5 likes 12V at full speed, if you put 14.6V you may overheat it, side effect is much worser efficiency, growing to S3 level. Opposite, if you keep S5 running at low voltage, it will stop hashing or you need to slow it down. My S5 can work from 9V, but at slowest seed of 100MHz.

High efficiency DC/DC converter will stabilize your voltage, but it is more conversion loss and more expenses.

135 chip version of S7 has DC/DC convertor, so it can be used at voltages 11-16V. I did undervolted version of S7 which can be used from 10V.



Yeah i covered that here;


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1429779.msg14461340#msg14461340

 
More or less i would run something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LTC3780-DC-5V-32V-to-1V-30V-10A-Automatic-Step-Up-Down-Regulator-Charging-Module-/322049388287?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

but a bit more powerful obviously. Dirt cheap and efficient.


I want to be clear here too, i don't want to just run on low voltages, i want to undervolt/clock the unit itself to increase efficiency and decrease power usage. If the S7 has dc/dc converters, it sounds like that would bypass any undervolt i would do? Or does it merely run DC/DC converters to run the control board, while allowing the chips to operate at lower voltages.



philipma1957


Do altcoins still rock mainly ATI/AMD cards? I don't have any of those but i have a few top of the line model nVidia's. GTX 980, 780, a couple more.





philipma1957
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April 09, 2016, 02:49:38 PM
 #23

Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone knows how a 12v Deep Cycle battery would do running a miner like an S5? Assume a 590 Watt draw just as a baseline. Is it as simple as pulling watt hours from the battery? IE an S5 running @ 12v using 590 watts is pulling roughly 50 AMP. Is it as simple to say that if the battery is 600 AMP it would provide 600/50= 12 hours? Deep cycle's don't really like to drop below 50% for long life. So 6 hours? I'm more concerned with my concept being incorrect than actual data numbers here.

I've seen plenty of naysayers shunning the use of batteries as they typically have voltage drop as load is applied and battery resistance rises. That is how automotive batteries work, however deep cycle are specifically designed to maintain voltage across a usage curve with a steep drop-off and resistance increase generally happening around the 80% drain mark.

Happy hunting

S5 and 165 chips batches of S7 are not happy of voltage variance caused by dis/charging. Fully charged battery at cycle charge is 14.6V, but fully discharged battery has 10.5V. S5 likes 12V at full speed, if you put 14.6V you may overheat it, side effect is much worser efficiency, growing to S3 level. Opposite, if you keep S5 running at low voltage, it will stop hashing or you need to slow it down. My S5 can work from 9V, but at slowest seed of 100MHz.

High efficiency DC/DC converter will stabilize your voltage, but it is more conversion loss and more expenses.

135 chip version of S7 has DC/DC convertor, so it can be used at voltages 11-16V. I did undervolted version of S7 which can be used from 10V.



Yeah i covered that here;


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1429779.msg14461340#msg14461340

 
More or less i would run something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LTC3780-DC-5V-32V-to-1V-30V-10A-Automatic-Step-Up-Down-Regulator-Charging-Module-/322049388287?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

but a bit more powerful obviously. Dirt cheap and efficient.


I want to be clear here too, i don't want to just run on low voltages, i want to undervolt/clock the unit itself to increase efficiency and decrease power usage. If the S7 has dc/dc converters, it sounds like that would bypass any undervolt i would do? Or does it merely run DC/DC converters to run the control board, while allowing the chips to operate at lower voltages.



philipma1957


Do altcoins still rock mainly ATI/AMD cards? I don't have any of those but i have a few top of the line model nVidia's. GTX 980, 780, a couple more.







the nvidia will work (in hand is the key)  they will give decent watt to mh ratio

yeah the amd are still a little better.  but in hand is the key since in hand = 0$ cost and profit  as soon as you start to mine.

the rush is on but we all know 2 to 4 months and this will level out. 

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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April 09, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
 #24

Interesting news boys. Ran a mock test on my solar panel i made.

These cells are claimed to run around 0.6v per cell at roughly 6 amps totaling around 3.6 watts each.

I made a 4x9 array totaling 36 cells all wired in series to match a 18v minimum inverter.

Some measurements i took today...

@9AM with zero cloud cover i recorded : 22v @ 6.5 amps!!!! That's 143 watts total and 3.97~ watts per cell!

@11:30AM with zero cloud cover i recorded : 22.2v @ 7.77 amps!!! That's 172.5 watts total and 4.79 watts per cell!!!

That's insanely good!


I should mention the other amazing side of these cells is; they are rough 165 micron thick or .006" thick, Semi-flexible to around 30 degrees bend, are relatively space saving in area compared to conventional pv cells, and weigh virtually nothing.


This panel is only 45" x 20"

Once i finish my solar tracker i should be able to get some real-time data that maximizes its output.
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April 09, 2016, 04:59:49 PM
 #25

Interesting news boys. Ran a mock test on my solar panel i made.

These cells are claimed to run around 0.6v per cell at roughly 6 amps totaling around 3.6 watts each.

I made a 4x9 array totaling 36 cells all wired in series to match a 18v minimum inverter.

Some measurements i took today...

@9AM with zero cloud cover i recorded : 22v @ 6.5 amps!!!! That's 143 watts total and 3.97~ watts per cell!

@11:30AM with zero cloud cover i recorded : 22.2v @ 7.77 amps!!! That's 172.5 watts total and 4.79 watts per cell!!!

That's insanely good!


I should mention the other amazing side of these cells is; they are rough 165 micron thick or .006" thick, Semi-flexible to around 30 degrees bend, are relatively space saving in area compared to conventional pv cells, and weigh virtually nothing.


This panel is only 45" x 20"

Once i finish my solar tracker i should be able to get some real-time data that maximizes its output.


Sounds like you have some really interesting stuff going on. I'm very excited to see your final results. Saving on power could be a life saver for a lot of people.
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April 09, 2016, 05:53:11 PM
 #26

If you can make a purpose built building for battery storage, look into some Good used/Refurbished forklift batteries, Extremely durable if properly maintained. They are huge, heavy, clumsy to move, but they should last forever in an application like yours with a good charge controller and proper battery maintenance. Frequent battery replacement will negate any cost savings made by solar.

Go big!

I have one of questionable strength/life left in it that i acquired for nothing. Can't find any marking or stickers on it but it is a 36v battery with a few dead cells, you can bypass/hack off terminals to the dead cells and make it a 24v battery. That's how i have mine set up, it's @ my friends hunting cabin in Mexico. I have a cheap $40 30amp charge controller and 5x 100 watt rated panels(supposedly) People are rarely there and its allways charged.

If you aquire a 36v battery and many cells are dead you can make it a 12v battery, . Whatever suits you needs. Right now i'm looking @ one that looks kinda funky that survived a warehouse fire intact'ish.  Look around, these are out there.

Good luck, sounds like a fun project, free power makes a few miners mining solo more interesting.
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April 11, 2016, 02:03:51 PM
 #27

If you can make a purpose built building for battery storage, look into some Good used/Refurbished forklift batteries, Extremely durable if properly maintained. They are huge, heavy, clumsy to move, but they should last forever in an application like yours with a good charge controller and proper battery maintenance. Frequent battery replacement will negate any cost savings made by solar.

Go big!

I have one of questionable strength/life left in it that i acquired for nothing. Can't find any marking or stickers on it but it is a 36v battery with a few dead cells, you can bypass/hack off terminals to the dead cells and make it a 24v battery. That's how i have mine set up, it's @ my friends hunting cabin in Mexico. I have a cheap $40 30amp charge controller and 5x 100 watt rated panels(supposedly) People are rarely there and its allways charged.

If you aquire a 36v battery and many cells are dead you can make it a 12v battery, . Whatever suits you needs. Right now i'm looking @ one that looks kinda funky that survived a warehouse fire intact'ish.  Look around, these are out there.

Good luck, sounds like a fun project, free power makes a few miners mining solo more interesting.



A few people mentioned this to me in the past too! Forklift batteries are usually a pain for any company to have to deal with ;P   I could def take them off their hands.
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April 11, 2016, 07:18:39 PM
 #28

Ja they are massive power -- which in turn means massive weight. As is several hundred to over 1k Lbs each so plan on needing an engine hoist or other heavy lift device to handle them...

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-For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself.
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
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April 11, 2016, 09:06:34 PM
 #29

Ja they are massive power -- which in turn means massive weight. As is several hundred to over 1k Lbs each so plan on needing an engine hoist or other heavy lift device to handle them...


Indeed. Forklifts have massive counter-weights on them so they don't tip over when they lift a heavy load. Electric fork-lifts tend to use these heavy batteries to their advantage.
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April 11, 2016, 09:28:14 PM
 #30

You;ll need to rent/hire a forklift to move them  Wink Cheesy

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April 11, 2016, 10:34:57 PM
 #31

I would keep the overall setup as simple as possible using some off the shelf modules from Ali Express.

Solar Panels >>>> MPPT Charge Controller >>>> Battery Bank >>>> Buck Converter >>>> Miner


Rich

→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→ 💰 Hard-Disk Mineable Cryptocurrency !! B U R S T C O I N 💰 Cheap Price & Easy to Invest - CHECK IT OUT NOW! !! →→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→ 💰 Asset exchange, Automatic transactions, Escrow system & More !!
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April 12, 2016, 12:09:44 PM
 #32

I would keep the overall setup as simple as possible using some off the shelf modules from Ali Express.

Solar Panels >>>> MPPT Charge Controller >>>> Battery Bank >>>> Buck Converter >>>> Miner

Rich


Yes this is what i'm thinking, except with the addition of a direct loop from the panels to the buck converter to bypass charging in the day cycle. If the batteries are low for some reason (bad math on my part or a few shitty days in a row) I would want the Panel to prioritize powering the miner over charging dead batteries.


So the circuit would resemble this:



Solar Panels >>>> MPPT Charge Controller >>>> Battery Bank >>>> Buck Converter >>>> Miner
                   | |                                                                    |   |         
                  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This gives the buck converter the ability to run off battery or pure solar. This might require a second buck converter in parallel with the existing. I could also run a Arduino post second buck converter and write a simple python program to cut power to the miner in the event its running low on power from both sources, this prevents unexpected power loss and unintended low voltages going to the miner.
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April 12, 2016, 12:36:14 PM
 #33

I'm running 10kW of mining gear and ~5kW of grid tied solar. Solar supplies about 10-15% of total daily consumption, in Florida. Realistically, I would need more than a 50-60kW solar array, at minimum, to cover 240kWh daily use. So you either need a shit ton of expensive battery or are going to be grid tied, back feeding to power company most of your generated power, only to buy it back later at a higher price. So you need at least ~6X in solar what your intended load will be if located in a 4 sun/hr geo zone.
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April 12, 2016, 02:01:32 PM
 #34

I would keep the overall setup as simple as possible using some off the shelf modules from Ali Express.

Solar Panels >>>> MPPT Charge Controller >>>> Battery Bank >>>> Buck Converter >>>> Miner

Rich


Yes this is what i'm thinking, except with the addition of a direct loop from the panels to the buck converter to bypass charging in the day cycle. If the batteries are low for some reason (bad math on my part or a few shitty days in a row) I would want the Panel to prioritize powering the miner over charging dead batteries.


So the circuit would resemble this:



Solar Panels >>>> MPPT Charge Controller >>>> Battery Bank >>>> Buck Converter >>>> Miner
                   | |                                                                    |   |         
                  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This gives the buck converter the ability to run off battery or pure solar. This might require a second buck converter in parallel with the existing. I could also run a Arduino post second buck converter and write a simple python program to cut power to the miner in the event its running low on power from both sources, this prevents unexpected power loss and unintended low voltages going to the miner.


Yes I think that is a good plan. Also think an Arduino is a good idea, when I was thinking about a similar setup I had in mind monitoring the voltage at various points down the chain with the Arduino and then with some changeover relays and a simple program to get the best from the setup.

Rich

→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→ 💰 Hard-Disk Mineable Cryptocurrency !! B U R S T C O I N 💰 Cheap Price & Easy to Invest - CHECK IT OUT NOW! !! →→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→ 💰 Asset exchange, Automatic transactions, Escrow system & More !!
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April 12, 2016, 10:19:24 PM
 #35

I'm running 10kW of mining gear and ~5kW of grid tied solar. Solar supplies about 10-15% of total daily consumption, in Florida. Realistically, I would need more than a 50-60kW solar array, at minimum, to cover 240kWh daily use. So you either need a shit ton of expensive battery or are going to be grid tied, back feeding to power company most of your generated power, only to buy it back later at a higher price. So you need at least ~6X in solar what your intended load will be if located in a 4 sun/hr geo zone.

This is good info thanks. The only issue is selling power back is not an option at all. So I'm left with battery and simply having downtime for powerless hours.

The battery only serves to store what the miner doesn't use during that day off the solar. It could run maybe a few hours after light and then I'll need to switch over to wall power. A arduino unit controlling a physical relay switch could handle a task like this.
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April 15, 2016, 11:55:17 AM
 #36

I'm running 10kW of mining gear and ~5kW of grid tied solar. Solar supplies about 10-15% of total daily consumption, in Florida. Realistically, I would need more than a 50-60kW solar array, at minimum, to cover 240kWh daily use. So you either need a shit ton of expensive battery or are going to be grid tied, back feeding to power company most of your generated power, only to buy it back later at a higher price. So you need at least ~6X in solar what your intended load will be if located in a 4 sun/hr geo zone.

This is good info thanks. The only issue is selling power back is not an option at all. So I'm left with battery and simply having downtime for powerless hours.

The battery only serves to store what the miner doesn't use during that day off the solar. It could run maybe a few hours after light and then I'll need to switch over to wall power. A arduino unit controlling a physical relay switch could handle a task like this.

I'm unable to sell back also. As long as your load exceeds your maximum production potential, at all times, you can use grid tie and never back feed. That is how I can run solar gear and grid tied inverters with no contracts, permits, inspections, and barely any install costs; by doing it myself super cheap. Everything has to be synced so that power is coming from same phase in breaker box as solar inverters are feeding into, now power company never sees the solar production, just the varying constant load from the miners.

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August 02, 2017, 05:35:21 PM
 #37

I know this topic is over a year old but there's a lot of good ideas here and it's an appropriate place to pick it up.

My local power company has a "Time of Day" plan that works like this:

- $.05/KWH off peak and $.27/KHW on peak,

Peak hours are 2:00-7:00pm  in the summer and 6:00-10:00am in the winter.

I could put the charger on a timer and just use the batteries during four hours a day.

I use two 100 gel cells with my camper. they are around  12.9 VDC at 100% down to 11.5VDC at 50%

Right now i have one L3. I'm thinking about selling it while it's hot and then keeping an eye out for the  next deal.  $.05/KWH could change the equation. 
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