[DASH] Dash - Building the IoM | Dash Nation Progress Thread

[Lebubar]

LOL, yeah, you offer an opportunity to sign up to be paid money (often to shill Dash as in Daily Decrypt, Michael Terpin, and Juan S. Galt; who else?) and you're surprised that people are all over it.

Are you trying to be incoherent or does it just come naturally ?

The project is huge. It isn't because of petty bribes, it's because it has ideas that are diverse and are working. The fact that people get paid for the work they do was actually a long time objective that is now being achieved but it doesn't surprise me that you'd somehow twist that into another one of your propaganda spins.

And you say your interested in ethics ?  

I met Amanda in person, before she was sponsored from our blockchain and she was already a Dash fan.
Because of the inovation and all dev in this coin.

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[TanteStefana2]

LOL, yeah, you offer an opportunity to sign up to be paid money (often to shill Dash as in Daily Decrypt, Michael Terpin, and Juan S. Galt; who else?) and you're surprised that people are all over it.

Are you trying to be incoherent or does it just come naturally ?

The project is huge. It isn't because of petty bribes, it's because it has ideas that are diverse and are working. The fact that people get paid for what they do was actually a long time objective that is now being achieved but it doesn't surprise me that you'd somehow twist that into another one of your propaganda spins.

And you say your interested in ethics ? 

Look guys the game is up. The majority here  knows it was a scam. Dash will have to keep inventing and developing until such a time they create a time machine and then go back to 2013 and launch all over again. Until then all features are pointless and can not save dash.

This project can grow as large as it likes. It's foundations are based upon pure scam. That means it can topple at any time.
Never buy into or become involved with a scam however temping it may be. Lesson learned I hope guys. You'll be yoyo ing up and down from $2-$10 until eventually it either dies or evans is arrested and charged.

Why not look into other projects some are 0.0001 satoshi now. You have far better chance of making way more returns with a few new promising coins that are not scams.

Discuss your scams in the ann scam coin threads. The main board does not tolerate scams mentioned there without them clearly being labelled as the s word.

LOL, are you for real?  No you're not, obviously.  Dash is for real.  If you think people will listen to your tedious bullshit, I'm afraid you're quite wrong.

And your comment on Evan getting arrested, that's exactly the point.  Evan Duffield is out in the open, he doesn't hide from who he is, and is completely up and up as is almost every single person on the team, minus those who don't live in a free country (or at least as free as it gets) like Europe, Canada, Mexico, USA, etc.  Those choose to stay anonymous for their safety, and I can't blame them. 

So tell me again, who are the scammers on BitcoinTalk?  You guys are seriously lame.  This group of developers you see here in Dash are changing the world, and you guys will be eating our dust  

[generalizethis]

LOL, yeah, you offer an opportunity to sign up to be paid money (often to shill Dash as in Daily Decrypt, Michael Terpin, and Juan S. Galt; who else?) and you're surprised that people are all over it.

Are you trying to be incoherent or does it just come naturally ?

The project is huge. It isn't because of petty bribes, it's because it has ideas that are diverse and are working. The fact that people get paid for what they do was actually a long time objective that is now being achieved but it doesn't surprise me that you'd somehow twist that into another one of your propaganda spins.

And you say your interested in ethics ?  

Look guys the game is up. The majority here  knows it was a scam. Dash will have to keep inventing and developing until such a time they create a time machine and then go back to 2013 and launch all over again. Until then all features are pointless and can not save dash.

This project can grow as large as it likes. It's foundations are based upon pure scam. That means it can topple at any time.
Never buy into or become involved with a scam however temping it may be. Lesson learned I hope guys. You'll be yoyo ing up and down from $2-$10 until eventually it either dies or evans is arrested and charged.

Why not look into other projects some are 0.0001 satoshi now. You have far better chance of making way more returns with a few new promising coins that are not scams.

Discuss your scams in the ann scam coin threads. The main board does not tolerate scams mentioned there without them clearly being labelled as the s word.

LOL, are you for real?  No you're not, obviously.  Dash is for real.  If you think people will listen to your tedious bullshit, I'm afraid you're quite wrong.

And your comment on Evan getting arrested, that's exactly the point.  Evan Duffield is out in the open, he doesn't hide from who he is, and is completely up and up as is almost every single person on the team, minus those who don't live in a free country (or at least as free as it gets) like Europe, Canada, Mexico, USA, etc.  Those choose to stay anonymous for their safety, and I can't blame them.  

So tell me again, who are the scammers on BitcoinTalk?  You guys are seriously lame.  This group of developers you see here in Dash are changing the world, and you guys will be eating our dust  

So you can verify that the 2 million that were mined in 2 days weren't done so purposely? Sure you can.

The only way dash is changing the world is filling up BCT space with spam that ignores dash's scammine, ignores dash design flaws (such as X11, masternodes, darksend, governance model, ect.), and ignores the attempts of the dash hypesters to distract from these flaws with calls for everyone to trust Evan, because at the end of the day you didn't do the one thing you are supposed to do in crypto, which is build a system that works trustlessly.

[toknormal]

Hey. No-one's stopping you or anyone else doing it again.

The code's up there and clones already exist. They're just not worth a f*ck. 

Kind of blows your assertions out just a little bit.

[generalizethis]

Hey. No-one's stopping you or anyone else doing it again.

The code's up there and clones already exist. They're just not worth a f*ck.  

Kind of blows your assertions out just a little bit.

Are you drunk? I make a criticism that dash is fundamentally broken and you assert (I think) that I should clone it? Why would anyone clone a coin that they maintain is broken? Is this a new form of dash logic?

I think you have me confused with cryptohunter, who believes that dash should just be cloned and launched fairly without the taint of an instamine. I'm the one who is asserting that dash is fundamentally flawed because you can't trustlessly verify that it is nothing but an oligarchy. Again, the main problem isn't that dash was instamined (that only exasperates the problem), the main problem is layering functions on nodes and giving them fees, which is a two-fold problem as, through the power of compound interest, current node holders can continually buy more and more nodes, and adding onto the layer of functions that nodes perform creates a power and economic centralization that is essentially (you guessed it) an oligarchy--unless you've figured out a way to verify trustlessly that this can't happen, have you?

[toknormal]

the main problem is layering functions on nodes and giving them fees, which is a two-fold problem as, through the power of compound interest, current node holders can continually buy more and more nodes

Thats one random theory you've cooked up to suit your agenda and are trying to sell it as if it were the only economic factor in the equation which as I already explained is far from true.

Sorry if being correct is getting in the way of your plans.

One slight detail that kind of blows your little theory to Kingdom Come is that Dash is not a closed system. (As you are alluding to by attempting to conflate it with some kind of government regime). It lives amongst a free market of cryptocurrencies and other assets, both monetary and non-monetary. That therefore brings external economic forces to bear as well as internal ones.

Closed vs Open systems analysis. It's an interesting engineering concept thats worth exploring  

For a start, you can already see it at work here...



...what that little nick is is people dumping their masternodes because the value went up against another asset and new owners taking over. Furthermore, the propensity for large holders to dump is far higher than for small ones since proportionally they have more to gain and less to lose from profit taking.

If you are correct - as you say you are - and Dash's reserve market leads to consolidation rather than distribution, then a few people will own more and more of less and less and the value of their assets will slowly diminish against others outside of the Dash ecosystem (due to decay of network effect amongst other things).

That will bring external economic forces to bear and they'll be encouraged to sell - all the way down.

However, if market activity over the last two years is anything to go by we won't even get near that road. Whenever the price has risen by a significant amount, market volume has risen with it and a whole lot of masternode collateral suddenly appears out of the Ether (pun intended   , ) so lets just see what happens.

Finally, taking a freely traded commercial asset which its holders are very satisfied with and which has been successful over quite a significant period and attempting to characterise it as some kind of 'state' enforced regime that everyone's oblidged to live by does make you look like a bit of a zealot. Specially when you use it as a basis for a campaign bordering on idealogical warfare at times  

You're confusing a democracy with a capital asset. It remains to be seen how healthy the whole approach is in terms of the long term benefit of the project but one thing they can't do is "vote" the coins out of other people's hands, so what works for large holders has also got to work for small.

So characterising the whole thing as some kind of kind of oligarchy is simply symbolic obfuscation and bluster.

[classicsucks]

IMHO Dash had a sketchy start (as Darkcoin) and didn't really fix up the unequal premine issues.

However, the community is quite innovative and worthy of praise.

Perhaps down the road there will be a Dash fork altcoin?

How can the launch be fixed.  There was no way to fix it when it was realized there was a problem then, and no fix now.  It was a choice to continue on, or scrap the whole thing.  The community voted against scrapping, so we moved on.  Frankly, nobody really knew what would become of Xcoin/Darkcoin/Dash, and may not have cared.  After all, most all the originally mined coins were sold off.  Essentially, the end result gave us a much broader user base than we would otherwise have had, and it's not much different from presales and even premines you see all over this forum.  Why are those ok then?  Ever since the beginning of this project people knew how it started, yet they bought into it, they joined, they became passionate.  Why? Because of it's amazing team, led by Evan Duffield.

Anyone can clone Dash, the repository is right there on github.  Why won't there be a successful clone of Dash?  Because nobody else could inspire a team like the one Evan has created.  This means 1. Clones will always be behind the curve on implementing new features, 2. likely not have a team responsive enough to fix bugs, 3. simply not have the support of a large community like Dash has.

On the other hand, if Dash were cloned to start something new, well, that's what Open Source is all about, and we'd cheer it on, especially if it is to do things that the Dash team do not want to implement into Dash, like say to clone Dash's Masternode system so it could host a market place, where a small fee would go toward the network nodes running it.  In this way, unlike Open Bazaar - who plan to offer centralized services on the side - users could get the same kind of buying and selling experience they get from ebay - no hosting of their own nodes - no technical know how, yet still decentralized and cheap.  I actually wish someone would do that still  I don't trust the company that paid to have Open Bazaar built.

Anyway, good luck with any clones of Dash, I think the biggest trolls here already released "classic dash"  LOL.  

Thank you for your reasoned reply. I don't think the launch can be fixed, so that's an ongoing issue.

Premined coins are not always doomed - hell, look at Ripple! However, coins that got distributed unfairly and then had the block reward trimmed have 2 strikes against them...

Don't get me wrong, I believe Dash has one of the most innovative communities and the governance masternode system is a great idea. Not everything is black and white, there are many shades of grey.

Ontopic, OpenBazaar was forked off of Amir Taaki's proof of concept code by a guy who worked at Booz Allen Hamilton with Snowden. Not sure if he was sympathetic to Snowden or not... The founder of OB says he wants to monetize by doing hosting solutions and/or selling escrow service. Seems fair to me.

[stan.distortion]

That's what makes me laugh with all this trolling over the initial distribution, the fintech industry has been caught on the hop by crypto and is desperate to catch up, anyone that's shown they can innovate in crypto is sitting on a goldmine and could charge an absolute fortune just for consultancy. The guys that made openbazaar could make a fortune in a dozen different ways even if openbazaar gets left behind, just getting that to launch is better than any amount of qualifications on their CVs.

It's likely alts will have to get innovative with their economic models too, there's probably not much space for coins to be valued as commodities, maybe only enough room for Bitcoin so anything that doesn't have something better to offer than just a limited supply and stable emission rate could find its self left behind. That's what interests me with the "proof of labour" proposal, its a big change in the way money works and could be way ahead of emulating the gold standard, those kind of ideas could have the same kind of effect on money as Bitcoin has already.

[generalizethis]

the main problem is layering functions on nodes and giving them fees, which is a two-fold problem as, through the power of compound interest, current node holders can continually buy more and more nodes

Thats one random theory you've cooked up to suit your agenda and are trying to sell it as if it were the only economic factor in the equation which as I already explained is far from true.

Sorry if being correct is getting in the way of your plans.

One slight detail that kind of blows your little theory to Kingdom Come is that Dash is not a closed system. (As you are alluding to by attempting to conflate it with some kind of government regime). It lives amongst a free market of cryptocurrencies and other assets, both monetary and non-monetary. That therefore brings external economic forces to bear as well as internal ones.

Closed vs Open systems analysis. It's an interesting engineering concept thats worth exploring  

For a start, you can already see it at work here...



...what that little nick is is people dumping their masternodes because the value went up against another asset and new owners taking over. Furthermore, the propensity for large holders to dump is far higher than for small ones since proportionally they have more to gain and less to lose from profit taking.

If you are correct - as you say you are - and Dash's reserve market leads to consolidation rather than distribution, then a few people will own more and more of less and less and the value of their assets will slowly diminish against others outside of the Dash ecosystem (due to decay of network effect amongst other things).

That will bring external economic forces to bear and they'll be encouraged to sell - all the way down.

However, if market activity over the last two years is anything to go by we won't even get near that road. Whenever the price has risen by a significant amount, market volume has risen with it and a whole lot of masternode collateral suddenly appears out of the Ether (pun intended   , ) so lets just see what happens.

Finally, taking a freely traded commercial asset which its holders are very satisfied with and which has been successful over quite a significant period and attempting to characterise it as some kind of 'state' enforced regime that everyone's oblidged to live by does make you look like a bit of a zealot. Specially when you use it as a basis for a campaign bordering on idealogical warfare at times  

You're confusing a democracy with a capital asset. It remains to be seen how healthy the whole approach is in terms of the long term benefit of the project but one thing they can't do is "vote" the coins out of other people's hands, so what works for large holders has also got to work for small.

So characterising the whole thing as some kind of kind of oligarchy is simply symbolic obfuscation and bluster.

Using a trust argument, "If you trust these graphs show that the nodes aren't being bought by those who seek to manipulate the market and buy more nodes and at a cheaper price (while making a side profit from selling), then dash isn't oligarchy."

This is a huge logic fail, and illustrates how far those in the dash hierarchy are out of step with the purpose of cryptosystems. Any cryptosystem that fails to verify its purpose in an objective and trustless way fails to offer anything more than the old world ideas that  new world (information age) systems were designed to replace. This fact is why dash can do no more than advertise itself as "new money," Satoshi's dream," "IOM", ect. ect., this is the poser at work trying to fool the uninitiated with surface instead of substance, intimations instead of white papers, promises of moon beams instead of the seeds of revolution.

[toknormal]

Any cryptosystem that fails to verify its purpose in an objective and trustless way

Given that Dash *does* verify its purpose in an objective and trustless way then, I think you might have stumbled into the wrong thread. (As I said, might be something to do with your scrambled-egg like conflation of terms such as promissory note, trust, protocol articulation, obfuscation etc..etc...).

No worries. Help is at hand

Meanwhile, here is a most excellent alternative perspective on masternode economics which contrast starkly with yours regarding the merits of the system  

[taw00]

Good evening everyone.

This thread is becoming quite entertaining! The detractors have sensed the tide turning, and have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at us here. Lots of long winded posts, full of "half-truth, half-spin" that they have been allowed to get away with for two years. Damn, we are popular! You can arrive at your own conclusions why they are here day in and day out, it doesn't take much to figure it out.

Indeed. My pop-psychology hypothesis is that the world of cryptotech attracts a certain breed of folks that achieve a certain amount ego-gratification by poking at prominent projects. Kinda like the loudmouth 13 year old insecure punk we all knew in grade school. Heck, some of us used to be that punk. And heck, some of these guys posting are probably 13! Some sure come across as such.

Anyway... Dash is doing good things. These gnats can continue to annoy in their attempt at inflated self-importance. While they continue to proclaim the "end is nigh" and hand out Jack Chick tracts, Dash will continue to improve and innovate.

[generalizethis]

Any cryptosystem that fails to verify its purpose in an objective and trustless way

Given that Dash *does* verify its purpose in an objective and trustless way then, I think you might have stumbled into the wrong thread. (As I said, might be something to do with your scrambled-egg like conflation of terms such as promissory note, trust, protocol articulation, obfuscation etc..etc...).

No worries. Help is at hand

Meanwhile, here is a most excellent alternative perspective on masternode economics which contrast starkly with yours regarding the merits of the system  

How do you trustlessly verify masternode operators aren't using the fees they collect (or market manipulation) to increase the number of masternodes they hold? Again, in a trustless manner that doesn't depend on humans acting in good faith, best intentions, or the presumption that these motives can be trusted, as the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and the presumption of good intentions is just a road sign along the way.

Keep it simple, if you can? I don't feel like wading through more faulty argumentation.

[BrainShutdown]

Good evening everyone.

This thread is becoming quite entertaining! The detractors have sensed the tide turning, and have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at us here. Lots of long winded posts, full of "half-truth, half-spin" that they have been allowed to get away with for two years. Damn, we are popular! You can arrive at your own conclusions why they are here day in and day out, it doesn't take much to figure it out.

Indeed. My pop-psychology hypothesis is that the world of cryptotech attracts a certain breed of folks that achieve a certain amount ego-gratification by poking at prominent projects. Kinda like the loudmouth 13 year old insecure punk we all knew in grade school. Heck, some of us used to be that punk. And heck, some of these guys posting are probably 13! Some sure come across as such.

Anyway... Dash is doing good things. These gnats can continue to annoy in their attempt at inflated self-importance. While they continue to proclaim the "end is nigh" and hand out Jack Chick tracts, Dash will continue to improve and innovate.

Agree, horses for courses, some people just can't accept that PlayStation is superior to Xbox. 

I don't think you can prove that trustlessly...  

Back to dash

Very interesting talk
http://dashroundtable.org/episodes/ep04/

[tungfa]

March 2016 - Dash Core Team Monthly Report

https://dashtalk.org/threads/march-2016-dash-core-team-monthly-report.8687/#post-91293

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

March 2016 - Dash Core Team Monthly Report

https://dashtalk.org/threads/march-2016-dash-core-team-monthly-report.8687/#post-91293

Darn it, tungfa! I was literally just about to post that. Thanks very much for the tireless work you do day in and day out. You are also a great example of Dash values in action. Cheers!

[BrainShutdown]

March 2016 - Dash Core Team Monthly Report

https://dashtalk.org/threads/march-2016-dash-core-team-monthly-report.8687/#post-91293

Darn it, tungfa! I was literally just about to post that. Thanks very much for the tireless work you do day in and day out. You are also a great example of Dash values in action. Cheers!

You guys are fast

[tungfa]

Renovated with New Soundtrack
 
https://youtu.be/PvaTUkfQqdk?list=PL_g4JqfANEpOe5z6MWmKfQft3atV4nFfm

https://youtu.be/g_MesS75qfM?list=PL_g4JqfANEpOe5z6MWmKfQft3atV4nFfm

[toknormal]

Everyone Has a Say !

The good thing about Dash is that all stakeholders have a say, and each stakeholder group's influence is focused by a different mechanism.

All are needed for it to be successful so there are balancing forces. No-one can pursue their own interests at the expense of another stakeholder group without simultaneously screwing themselves.

[qwizzie]

It takes but one positive thought when given a chance to survive and thrive to overpower an entire army of negative thoughts.
- Robert H. Schuller

Luckily for those forum-readers who are more interested in positive then negative thinking, we have an entire army of positive thinkers
ready to defend and uphold the values of Dash Nation.

[stan.distortion]

Hurrah for Dash Nation, I can't wait to get a passport How does Dash fair when it comes to the internet of money though? I mean, obviously digital cash is the right place to start but the IoM is more than just a buzzword and pretty damn soon everything will be talking to every other thing with payments as just another communications channel and before we know it our shoes will be sensing when their tread depth is getting low and ordering up a new pair and probably booking us in to see an orthopediatrician in the process.

Cryptocurrency has got that ball rolling, legacy currency would have got around to it sometime in the unforeseeable future but crypto's making it happen today and it will be a huge change, probably even bigger than the changes brought about by the internet with an unimaginable number and variety of transactions. Digital cash is just one part of that and maybe even a small part when most of what we do with money today can just work automagically in the background. That world is probably as inconceivable to us now as todays world was when the postal system was the cutting edge of communications technology but todays ideas will build its foundations and Dash Nation is a place for those ideas to grow.