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Author Topic: Lose all your capital fast, with MatTheCat and his TA 101A!  (Read 85740 times)
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April 01, 2017, 11:21:36 AM
 #1261

And copper ?  the peoples metal and of industry.  In china they have been banned from exchanging copper as a currency substitute, this was largely between building firms as it was considered superior to cash


1270 is 78.6% retracement of the recent irregular high to low and matches the more regular previous highs. Seems a fair place to mark significance in either holding as a ceiling or passing and establishing above for further gains.

1270 marked a high and a good place to sell in the ongoing protocol 'debate'     I dont know if we have passed that potential fork idea and so calm has returned to otherwise quite regular uptrend (relative to btc volatility)

Bitcoin has recently passed 1050 with good momentum that appears confident to build further.   Very close but also significant I think is 61% retracement of the ETF low and high, which is 1100.   Again marking this area with confidence is bullish longer term and short term its reasonable for it to be a rough ceiling till the market can achieve that.

The multi year trend matches the recent low of 900 or 888 and my guess is bitcoin retains a good trend upwards over this year despite recent doubts.   Many expected gains after the block reward reduced but proper moves take much more time and I think this action now is the tail end of previous changes and good continued use of the blockchain by many global entities. 
  As well as the chart it'd be good to have a record of transaction and perhaps approximate value conveyed within hashing operations to confirm a positive trend in business not just apparent price of each coin


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April 02, 2017, 04:40:22 AM
 #1262

I see lots of good opinions on this thread confirming what I've known for a few years now. Gold, Silver and Bitcoin.

I think the odds are kind of high that bitcoin will have no use or value at all during the coming financial implosion.


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April 02, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
 #1263

And why bitcoin can't compete with gold and silver in that new system in the long run:

Bitcoin is a currency not money.  If you don't agree, YOU don't understand finance.  It's a Rube Goldberg machine and nothing more.  No random bullshit made up of completely arbitary variables created by humans is money.  Money represents goods and services or the ability to do work.  It's required to be connected to some type of commodity or energy resource if you're abstracting the system away from barter, otherwise the system is easily gamed and implodes as always.

Bitcoin is not a real commodity, it's a poor immitation like some type of tranny.  The sunk cost in so called "creating" a bitcoin in the past does not transfer into delivering anything tangible into the future.  It's more like a steady state system that can catastrophically fail and vaporize all imaginary "wealth" attached to it at any time - the glaring trait of all currencies past and future.  One of the main reasons the noble metals are valued (gold and silver) are the anti-corrosive properties to defeat time itself, which guarantees you the ability to transfer that unit of account from the past to future, UNLIKE bitcoin.

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April 03, 2017, 09:03:45 AM
Last edit: April 03, 2017, 09:16:00 AM by MatDerKater
 #1264

I think the odds are kind of high that bitcoin will have no use or value at all during the coming financial implosion.

I wanted to buy an expensive item the other day, for which I needed to transfer EUR to GBP.

My first thought was to use Bitcoin for the 'fast easy transfer' of wealth. Obviously, I couldn't be bothered with transferring funds to Stamp, where I still haven't submitted to their ridiculous KYC requests, and I shall never transfer funds to Kraken ever again, cos these fuckers robbed me, told me my computer must have spyware and then told me to fuck off. This left LocalBitcoin. By the time all the vendor premiums were factored in, I would have been taking an 8% haircut on my capital. Fuck that! Better just taking a shafting from the banks!

Instead, I used Transferwise and incurred a fee of 0.36%.

In the developed world, Bitcoin really has no viable use beyond speculation and black market transactions and Bitcoin totally relies upon fiat currencies and their associated infrastructure in order to have any purpose whatsoever. I could see Bitcoin really taking a bid during periods of instability in one particular fiat currency should external currencies remain 'strong', (I am thinking CNY v USD here), but in the long run, Bitcoin is of course vapour.

Whilst crypto is here to stay, Bitcoin is to crypto what the Zeppelin 'von Hindenburg' was to trans-Atlantic flight. A monstrous looking contraption that got a hitherto impossible job done, until it all went up in a ball of flames and was replaced by better alterntives.


And why bitcoin can't compete with gold and silver in that new system in the long run:

Bitcoin is a currency not money.  If you don't agree, YOU don't understand finance.  It's a Rube Goldberg machine and nothing more.  No random bullshit made up of completely arbitary variables created by humans is money.  Money represents goods and services or the ability to do work.  It's required to be connected to some type of commodity or energy resource if you're abstracting the system away from barter, otherwise the system is easily gamed and implodes as always.

Bitcoin is not a real commodity, it's a poor immitation like some type of tranny.  The sunk cost in so called "creating" a bitcoin in the past does not transfer into delivering anything tangible into the future.  It's more like a steady state system that can catastrophically fail and vaporize all imaginary "wealth" attached to it at any time - the glaring trait of all currencies past and future.  One of the main reasons the noble metals are valued (gold and silver) are the anti-corrosive properties to defeat time itself, which guarantees you the ability to transfer that unit of account from the past to future, UNLIKE bitcoin.


Still very curious about this sudden change of tune that seemed to totally and 100% coincide with the Bitfinex scam r0ach? Cos you never lost a single penny there, right!?

I of course agree with you that Bitcoin is vapour, but that doesn't mean that there still isn't a good 35% up move left to come in Bitcoin before the fat lady sings? Isn't it your job to take advantage of market swings regardless of any philosophical concerns about the underlying asset?

 
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April 03, 2017, 08:36:56 PM
Last edit: April 03, 2017, 08:58:07 PM by bitebits
 #1265

Quote
Announcements > 100% Redemption of Outstanding BFX Tokens
April 03, 2017

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/198

Quite clever: get hacked for $60 million but create BFX tokens to remain solvent, then buy them on your own exchange with ~80% discount, announce BFX tokens will be 100% redeemed, effectively change the damage of the 'hack' from $60 million to ~$12 million.

In the meanwhile still not a single word how the hack has happend but everybody is cheering for a job well done. Amazing.

- You can figure out what will happen, not when /Warren Buffett
- Pay any Bitcoin address privately with a little help of Monero.
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April 04, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
 #1266

Quote
Announcements > 100% Redemption of Outstanding BFX Tokens
April 03, 2017

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/198

Quite clever: get hacked for $60 million but create BFX tokens to remain solvent, then buy them on your own exchange with ~80% discount, announce BFX tokens will be 100% redeemed, effectively change the damage of the 'hack' from $60 million to ~$12 million.

In the meanwhile still not a single word how the hack has happend but everybody is cheering for a job well done. Amazing.

Meanwhile, the exchange 'hackers' (cough cough, nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more), are in control of a sizeable stack of Bitcoins with which they can surely boss the market around left right and centre. What was it, around 1 million BTC?

A big fkn stack of Bitcoins on side of the table, a big fkn pile of USD on the other. The Bitfinex crooks could be to Bitcoin what JPMorgan is to the silver market. Both it's maker and it's breaker.
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April 06, 2017, 02:38:45 PM
 #1267

Meanwhile, the exchange 'hackers' (cough cough, nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more), are in control of a sizeable stack of Bitcoins with which they can surely boss the market around left right and centre. What was it, around 1 million BTC?

Uh dude, it was like ~120K hacked. Not a million btc. Get yer facts straight.
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April 06, 2017, 08:59:30 PM
 #1268

I see lots of good opinions on this thread confirming what I've known for a few years now. Gold, Silver and Bitcoin.

I think the odds are kind of high that bitcoin will have no use or value at all during the coming financial implosion.


Venezuela and india disagrees. Reality itself is conspiring against you.

Look inside yourself, and you will see that you are the bubble.
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April 07, 2017, 12:59:39 AM
 #1269

Uh dude, it was like ~120K hacked. Not a million btc. Get yer facts straight.

Of course....I stand corrected.


Venezuela and india disagrees. Reality itself is conspiring against you.

When Jim Roger's talks about currency collapse. He is of course talking about a USD collapse. Bitcoin needs to be readily convertible into strong currencies. Without this feature, Bitcoin would be worthless. Bitcoin does not have any inherent value, nor is there is a formidable authority enforcing it's acceptance as money.

Sure, if some mikey mouse currency goes 'puff', but the dollar prevails, then Bitcoin is awesome for people who would otherwise be in mickey mouse bucks, but if USD goes puff, then so does Bitcoin.

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April 07, 2017, 03:03:54 AM
 #1270

When Jim Roger's talks about currency collapse. He is of course talking about a USD collapse. Bitcoin needs to be readily convertible into strong currencies. Without this feature, Bitcoin would be worthless.

You've got it completely backwards.  Bitcoin is a currency, not money.  That's why low scalability is completely counterintuitive to it's value proposition.  The only way it can derive value is by tons of people using it in every day transactions, NOT a tiny number of people attempting to use it as a settlement layer or generational store of wealth because gold and silver are far superior for that purpose.

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April 07, 2017, 08:54:23 AM
 #1271

When Jim Roger's talks about currency collapse. He is of course talking about a USD collapse. Bitcoin needs to be readily convertible into strong currencies. Without this feature, Bitcoin would be worthless.

You've got it completely backwards.  Bitcoin is a currency, not money.  That's why low scalability is completely counterintuitive to it's value proposition.  The only way it can derive value is by tons of people using it in every day transactions, NOT a tiny number of people attempting to use it as a settlement layer or generational store of wealth because gold and silver are far superior for that purpose.

Sounds all a bit Mike Maloney to me. Bitcoin is neither currency nor money. It is not issued by any government decree. No authority seeks to collect taxes from it's citizens in Bitcoin, and it has no inherent value. i.e. if a government were to ban Bitcoin being used to transfer wealth, nobody would want it just for it's own sake, such as gold or silver.

Bitcoin is a commodity. It's utility is fast transfer of wealth with the volume of wealth exchangeable per unit, being measured in a wide array of global currencies (but totally tracking the USD price) being totally dependent on the antics taking place on a few unregulated and totally corrupt exchanges. And of course, Bitcoin's value is not derived from millions of people using it in everyday transactions. Indeed, in the UK the few early 'adopters' of Bitcoin payment systems seem to have abandoned it already, as Western consumers just don't have one single advantage in using Bitcoin for legitimate purchases, quite the opposite infact, even if someone actually holds Bitcoin, he is better paying for his new 50" TV with debit/credit card. Bitcoin's value is derived 95% from pure speculation. Not least of all being pushed up by venture capitalists who have invested up to their eyeballs in Bitcoin in one way or the other, and who are desperate to see it work. (in the long-run, it won't)
Ibian
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April 07, 2017, 09:58:44 AM
 #1272

Uh dude, it was like ~120K hacked. Not a million btc. Get yer facts straight.

Of course....I stand corrected.


Venezuela and india disagrees. Reality itself is conspiring against you.

When Jim Roger's talks about currency collapse. He is of course talking about a USD collapse. Bitcoin needs to be readily convertible into strong currencies. Without this feature, Bitcoin would be worthless. Bitcoin does not have any inherent value, nor is there is a formidable authority enforcing it's acceptance as money.

Sure, if some mikey mouse currency goes 'puff', but the dollar prevails, then Bitcoin is awesome for people who would otherwise be in mickey mouse bucks, but if USD goes puff, then so does Bitcoin.


You are saying that bitcoin is tied to the dollar. No wonder you couldn't hack it.

Look inside yourself, and you will see that you are the bubble.
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April 11, 2017, 12:26:06 PM
 #1273

You are saying that bitcoin is tied to the dollar. No wonder you couldn't hack it.

No.

I am saying Bitcoin's value depends on it's convertibility into the USD.

Should the US government decide to take issue with Bitcoin, and make moves to suspend any USD denominated financial account linked to trading Bitcoin, then you will see the true value of your worthless vapour coin, and you will also see where the financial power lies. Any money that is exchanged for way way more than it's inherent commodity value, such as copper coins with gold and/or silver dye on them, bank notes, digital fiat or crypto, instantly become worthless the very minute the authority behind the denomination loses it's power. Thus, no USD, then no Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a commodity whose utility is fast transfer of wealth and evasion of capital controls and covertibility into USD underpins all value that Bitcoin has.
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April 11, 2017, 01:42:28 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2017, 07:46:02 PM by Torque
 #1274

I feel like these conversations around bitcoin's viability long term are completely played out.  They've been talked about for what... like 8 years now? That's nearly a decade of time. I'm sure in another 8-10 years, people will still be droning on and on about it ad nauseum.

In the first decade of the "modern" Internet, people kept saying things like "Just one world catastrophe, and the entire Internet and its usage goes up in a poof of smoke".  Ok, whatever, just more Prepper talk completely divorced from reality.  Roll Eyes  People are ignorant to the fact that the Internet was originally created as a means of communication for just such an emergency situation.

Here we are 30 years later, and the Internet is still up and running, stronger and more distributed than ever. Now we have a worldwide Internet that literally is too big to fail. The entire fkn financial WORLD runs on the Internet, and that will always be true, even when we have the occasional worldwide crisis. Just like the world's central banks, they are not going anywhere, even if things get really bad.  They will still be chugging along.

So eventually Bitcoin will reach this level, where the worldwide Bitcoin network runs on the backbone of a financial internet that is literally here to stay forever. As long as the Internet is around, Bitcoin will be around. And people will use it, regardless of what the world's governments want or say.

People that think otherwise are just delusional Preppers. If we have Apocalyptic disasters one day that wipe out everything including all worldwide Internet communications, then Mankind has WAY bigger problems and even those silly gold and silver coins ain't gonna do jack shit for ya. Stock up on food, medicine, bullets, and toilet paper, because those become your new 'currency' barter system in that situation.  Grin
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April 11, 2017, 05:25:22 PM
 #1275

You are saying that bitcoin is tied to the dollar. No wonder you couldn't hack it.
I am saying Bitcoin's value depends on it's convertibility into the USD.
Which is still wrong. The only thing that matters is that you can trade it for stuff. Fiat currencies is an optional middle step for those who want it, but in no way required.

Look inside yourself, and you will see that you are the bubble.
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April 11, 2017, 08:31:08 PM
 #1276

You are saying that bitcoin is tied to the dollar. No wonder you couldn't hack it.
I am saying Bitcoin's value depends on it's convertibility into the USD.
Which is still wrong. The only thing that matters is that you can trade it for stuff. Fiat currencies is an optional middle step for those who want it, but in no way required.

For something to be money, in addition to being easily divisable into different amounts, if it hasn't been inherently valuable in and off itself, then it requires some authority enforcing it's use as money, generally by demanding taxes or tribute be paid in that specific money. Take the authority away, and all fiat currencies are worthless, obviously.

Bitcoin has neither an authority behind it with the powers to demand taxes or deploy military force, nor has it any inherent value in and off itself.

Bitcoin is a wealth transfer commodity, which may be exchanged as USD proxy, but only as long as easy convertibility exists.
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April 11, 2017, 09:09:11 PM
 #1277

You are saying that bitcoin is tied to the dollar. No wonder you couldn't hack it.
I am saying Bitcoin's value depends on it's convertibility into the USD.
Which is still wrong. The only thing that matters is that you can trade it for stuff. Fiat currencies is an optional middle step for those who want it, but in no way required.

For something to be money, in addition to being easily divisable into different amounts, if it hasn't been inherently valuable in and off itself, then it requires some authority enforcing it's use as money, generally by demanding taxes or tribute be paid in that specific money. Take the authority away, and all fiat currencies are worthless, obviously.

Bitcoin has neither an authority behind it with the powers to demand taxes or deploy military force, nor has it any inherent value in and off itself.

Bitcoin is a wealth transfer commodity, which may be exchanged as USD proxy, but only as long as easy convertibility exists.
There is no dispute over how bitcoin works. For years now. Your insistence on ancient concepts of what makes something a proper form of payment just makes you look stupid.

Look inside yourself, and you will see that you are the bubble.
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April 11, 2017, 10:05:24 PM
 #1278

For something to be money, in addition to being easily divisable into different amounts, if it hasn't been inherently valuable in and off itself, then it requires some authority enforcing it's use as money, generally by demanding taxes or tribute be paid in that specific money. Take the authority away, and all fiat currencies are worthless, obviously.

Bitcoin has neither an authority behind it with the powers to demand taxes or deploy military force, nor has it any inherent value in and off itself.

Bitcoin is a wealth transfer commodity, which may be exchanged as USD proxy, but only as long as easy convertibility exists.
There is no dispute over how bitcoin works. For years now. Your insistence on ancient concepts of what makes something a proper form of payment just makes you look stupid.
In a way he's right. The believement into monetary value. The detail he messes up is the necessiarity to make someone believe by force. There are believers who got not forced, but still do believe.

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April 12, 2017, 09:11:22 AM
 #1279

In a way he's right. The believement into monetary value. The detail he messes up is the necessiarity to make someone believe by force. There are believers who got not forced, but still do believe.

But we are still living in a paradigm were 'monetary belief' is held together at the most fundamental level by force. With that paradigm being the Global Petrodollar Hegemony enforced by the might of the US military. There are handful of not insignificant 'rouge' states whose are actions are undermining the US Petrodollar Hegemony. If these countries actions continue to go unchecked, much of the monetary belief holding up the USD as global reserve, could evaporate. WW3 will likely be fought to prevent this from happening. We can already see the beginnings of it in Middle East, Nato incursions into Russia's own back yard, adding to the already established US missile belt surrounding China and Russia, stretching from Japan, Korea, Middle East, Eastern Europe.

Bitcoin's value entirely depends on it's convertability into USD and any currency war resulting in a failing currency, will likely be very good for Bitcoin, UNLESS that failing currency is the USD. If/when the USD fails, then nobody will want to be holding artificially created proxies on real wealth. No paper wealth. No digital wealth. Only real tangible assets will matter.

Bitcoiners should all be cheering on the Neo-Con war hawks as they seek to back non-petrodollar hegemony compliant nations into a corner and ensure that there, and everyone else's currencies fail before the USD does.
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April 14, 2017, 10:51:57 AM
 #1280

It is beginning to look like the Bitcoin train may be running out of steam for now.

That confirmed divergence between momentum (RSI) and price is a raging screaming sell signal, and bear in mind this a WEEKLY chart. Still lots of room to manoeuvre in both directions. Bitcoin could pop a little higher yet, but on the broader longer term scale, this is a very bearish looking chart. For long term holders, time to start taking profits. For those who have come late to the game and aren't super sharp trader sharks. Now is probably time to just get out of Bitcoin.



It would be great to combine a volume based indicator with this chart, but all the exchanges volume figures are tainted, inaccurate, or compromised in one way or another, thus volume based technical studies for Bitcoin can't really be done on large time frames such as Weekly candle intervals.
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