suchmoon
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October 13, 2016, 06:06:38 PM |
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How many of the 4100 masternodes have Dash confirmed as running themselves ? & did they ever confirm how many they had ? From a business perspective I can't think of a single reason why the ION team would share that information. Please keep posting it's fun to see trolls like you trying to discredit.... you want a real life just read your post history  Again with the wall-quotes and fallacies  You can ask a question about Dash in the Dash thread. There was a lot of noise about their premine as well, probably not something you would want to bring up as an example of how this should be handled. I can't think of a reason why any investor - let alone a whale - wouldn't want to verify the claims of an opaque entity that is supposed to make him/her (the whale) rich. Apparently your faith is much stronger than mine, which is fine. I don't think a question can "discredit" anything. That is being done by the lack of an answer AND the attempt to shill it away. |
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korvas128
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October 13, 2016, 06:23:44 PM |
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ION is a blockchain based decentralized cryptocurrency that rewards network participation via static proof of stake. ION rewards "connectivity age" instead of “coin age,” thus eliminating abuse from exchanges and users that do not actively contribute to the network. By having a static reward system, the rewards for participation are proportional to the work every active node contributes. This discourages centralization and promotes network health. In addition to static rewards, ION implements a masternode network to incentivize large holders, and perform advanced functions such as near instant and private transactions.
The long term vision for ION is a thriving cryptocurrency ecosystem centered on gaming and digital goods.
How many masternodes does the team own? And encouraging everyone to buy stakers is giving all the control to TeamION...centralized. @CryptoBuds I think you are very confused because there is no TeamION! ION is a POS coin that has developers supporting and maintaining the new coin... Masternodes are setup by the user when the user has 20K IONs to stake and shares in the blockchain rewards... Semantics. How many masternodes does the team own? How much of the premine is in masternodes? How many free coins is the team minting? And don't tell me there is no team. That's a blatant fucking lie and I'm not confused. You're the one looking through rose colored glasses. But you're in too deep to actually want to ask critical questions. You're nothing by a shill that comes up with every excuse to not answer questions. Masternodes are decentralized and maintain by users with an ION wallet. Here is a screen shot showing that there is currently 151 ION Masternodes in the system.  I didn't ask how many masternodes there were total, quit dancing around the question. How many masternodes does the "team" control? Or whomever controls the premine, since you enjoy the word games. The only team that advertises their masternodes is the Community Masternode Project which is displayed below in the current payout: Here is some blockchain information for the last Community Node Payout on 10 October. MN1 Payout (iYQmYLTngqQHeVQzf3nZdDSAYW1wMmD9qC) - 253.0 IONs MN2 Payout (iZiGkguV1JiFGCvyCKTPoWSikn5rDcT6Wg) - 471.50151 IONs MN3 Payout (iiTsA1KMktJgmddiij8kADiak3LKBZyjm2) - 483.00052 IONs MN4 Payout (iigQptDvFfiTgSiJz1qfJKqxrdzuyJ7jTR) - 460.00107 IONs MN5 Payout (iUC8pCRCnKi4eA7mV38W2TLSopfWWoFdJ4) - 264.500015 IONs Total Payout - 1932.003115 IONs Daily Average Masternode Reward - 55.200089 IONs @ 14 cents = $7.73 dollars Minus 1% Pool Fee - 1912.68308385 IONs by 2000 shares = 0.956341541925 IONs per Share
The payout for the MNs reflect a 7 day sum. For more information on the payout, visit http://www.iontalk.net/t/masternode-status-for-10-october/243So the core team refuses to disclose their masternodes? The masternodes that are filled with a bunch of unaccountable FREE coins. This project wreaks, especially with WildShill as the vocal face of ION. Are you going to use your Garza lawyer to force Team Ionomy to disclose their masternodes? or tell you the name of their team? you can file the complaint against the core team... Wildshark, do you have at least a little idea about the reason we keep asking for the number and the addresses of the masternodes that belong to Team Ionomy? Any idea why an investment in ION is an absolute no-go as long as the team masternodes of a premined coin with hyperinflating "nodes" are kept secret? Come on, Wildshark, take a wild guess, it's really not that hard to figure it out. Why do you think we believe this information should be disclosed? It has been released that the bounty/premine coins are not in masternodes and are sitting in staking wallet.. Proof? 2.5 Million ION for bounties iereuy4Vn96x8oUwXEj5E5FKNeA8uHcabv 3.4 Million ION for Game/Dev bounties ikHbMe6SHea4MHxc1psfPE7eVhhof4v1SN Not in masternodes but staking Happy now. No of course your not you'll just move onto the next thing |
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suchmoon
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October 13, 2016, 06:54:54 PM |
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2.5 Million ION for bounties iereuy4Vn96x8oUwXEj5E5FKNeA8uHcabv
3.4 Million ION for Game/Dev bounties ikHbMe6SHea4MHxc1psfPE7eVhhof4v1SN
Not in masternodes but staking
Happy now. No of course your not you'll just move onto the next thing
No, let's stay on the same thing. These addresses were funded with the "whitepaper" amounts 10 days ago. What happened to the staking proceeds from the previous ~5 months? We are talking about ~1 million ION or so. Aren't you at least a little bit curious where that went? |
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Franz_Huber
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October 13, 2016, 09:31:36 PM |
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Nothing new from the hypershills Korvas and Wildshark. Meanwhile the world is so excited about Gravity's glorious closed alpha test, ION is going to the moon with a 24 hour trading volume of $30. Woohoo!  |
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aisyah88
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October 13, 2016, 09:33:48 PM |
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whether it is the official trading site ??
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suchmoon
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October 13, 2016, 11:00:59 PM |
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if all the bounties and premine are in stakers, doesn't that screw over all the little guys. 50% stake goes to master nodes, 50% to stakers, all the whales are competing against themselves and team ionomy gets the other 50% to themselves haha what a great devious plan, make everyone look at the master nodes while they still getting their 50% using all the premine, without anyone batting an eyelid
Here is a rough breakdown of the premine: 3.40m - gamer incentives 2.50m - dev bounties 1.25m - 10m XPY converted 8:1 0.80m - 100k atoms each getting 8 ION 0.70m - ICO 2.25m - unsold/unknown ------ 10.90m Meaning he team controlled 3.40 + 2.50 + 2.25 = 8.15m or ~75% of the initial supply. Since then ~3.2m new coins have been generated. It stands to reason that the team got ~1.2m of that (half of the rewards 1.6m times their share 0.75) even if they didn't have any masternodes. Probably more - AFAIK masternodes take coins out of regular staking (150x20 = 3.0 million) so that makes the team's share larger than 75%. While it's mighty nice to see the 5.9m coins now sitting in the two addresses, that still leaves 5 million of the initial supply and more than a million of the new coins unaccounted for. |
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Phildo
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October 13, 2016, 11:33:13 PM |
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ION is a blockchain based decentralized cryptocurrency that rewards network participation via static proof of stake. ION rewards "connectivity age" instead of “coin age,” thus eliminating abuse from exchanges and users that do not actively contribute to the network. By having a static reward system, the rewards for participation are proportional to the work every active node contributes. This discourages centralization and promotes network health. In addition to static rewards, ION implements a masternode network to incentivize large holders, and perform advanced functions such as near instant and private transactions.
The long term vision for ION is a thriving cryptocurrency ecosystem centered on gaming and digital goods.
How many masternodes does the team own? And encouraging everyone to buy stakers is giving all the control to TeamION...centralized. @CryptoBuds I think you are very confused because there is no TeamION! ION is a POS coin that has developers supporting and maintaining the new coin... Masternodes are setup by the user when the user has 20K IONs to stake and shares in the blockchain rewards... Semantics. How many masternodes does the team own? How much of the premine is in masternodes? How many free coins is the team minting? And don't tell me there is no team. That's a blatant fucking lie and I'm not confused. You're the one looking through rose colored glasses. But you're in too deep to actually want to ask critical questions. You're nothing by a shill that comes up with every excuse to not answer questions. Masternodes are decentralized and maintain by users with an ION wallet. Here is a screen shot showing that there is currently 151 ION Masternodes in the system. I didn't ask how many masternodes there were total, quit dancing around the question. How many masternodes does the "team" control? Or whomever controls the premine, since you enjoy the word games. The only team that advertises their masternodes is the Community Masternode Project which is displayed below in the current payout: Here is some blockchain information for the last Community Node Payout on 10 October. MN1 Payout (iYQmYLTngqQHeVQzf3nZdDSAYW1wMmD9qC) - 253.0 IONs MN2 Payout (iZiGkguV1JiFGCvyCKTPoWSikn5rDcT6Wg) - 471.50151 IONs MN3 Payout (iiTsA1KMktJgmddiij8kADiak3LKBZyjm2) - 483.00052 IONs MN4 Payout (iigQptDvFfiTgSiJz1qfJKqxrdzuyJ7jTR) - 460.00107 IONs MN5 Payout (iUC8pCRCnKi4eA7mV38W2TLSopfWWoFdJ4) - 264.500015 IONs Total Payout - 1932.003115 IONs Daily Average Masternode Reward - 55.200089 IONs @ 14 cents = $7.73 dollars Minus 1% Pool Fee - 1912.68308385 IONs by 2000 shares = 0.956341541925 IONs per Share
The payout for the MNs reflect a 7 day sum. For more information on the payout, visit http://www.iontalk.net/t/masternode-status-for-10-october/243So the core team refuses to disclose their masternodes? The masternodes that are filled with a bunch of unaccountable FREE coins. This project wreaks, especially with WildShill as the vocal face of ION. Are you going to use your Garza lawyer to force Team Ionomy to disclose their masternodes? or tell you the name of their team? you can file the complaint against the core team... Wildshark, do you have at least a little idea about the reason we keep asking for the number and the addresses of the masternodes that belong to Team Ionomy? Any idea why an investment in ION is an absolute no-go as long as the team masternodes of a premined coin with hyperinflating "nodes" are kept secret? Come on, Wildshark, take a wild guess, it's really not that hard to figure it out. Why do you think we believe this information should be disclosed? It has been released that the bounty/premine coins are not in masternodes and are sitting in staking wallet.. Why is it so hard to prove that? the entire point of crypto is that we don't have to take people's word and can see everything on the blockcain? Even if it's true that the bounty coins aren't in masternodes, what about the free coins that team ION gets by putting the coins that are in "stakers" into masternodes? Did you not learn from xpy how giving someone large amounts of free coins is a bad idea? |
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WildShark
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October 14, 2016, 04:34:31 PM |
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ION is a blockchain based decentralized cryptocurrency that rewards network participation via static proof of stake. ION rewards "connectivity age" instead of “coin age,” thus eliminating abuse from exchanges and users that do not actively contribute to the network. By having a static reward system, the rewards for participation are proportional to the work every active node contributes. This discourages centralization and promotes network health. In addition to static rewards, ION implements a masternode network to incentivize large holders, and perform advanced functions such as near instant and private transactions.
The long term vision for ION is a thriving cryptocurrency ecosystem centered on gaming and digital goods.
How many masternodes does the team own? And encouraging everyone to buy stakers is giving all the control to TeamION...centralized. @CryptoBuds I think you are very confused because there is no TeamION! ION is a POS coin that has developers supporting and maintaining the new coin... Masternodes are setup by the user when the user has 20K IONs to stake and shares in the blockchain rewards... Semantics. How many masternodes does the team own? How much of the premine is in masternodes? How many free coins is the team minting? And don't tell me there is no team. That's a blatant fucking lie and I'm not confused. You're the one looking through rose colored glasses. But you're in too deep to actually want to ask critical questions. You're nothing by a shill that comes up with every excuse to not answer questions. Masternodes are decentralized and maintain by users with an ION wallet. Here is a screen shot showing that there is currently 151 ION Masternodes in the system. I didn't ask how many masternodes there were total, quit dancing around the question. How many masternodes does the "team" control? Or whomever controls the premine, since you enjoy the word games. The only team that advertises their masternodes is the Community Masternode Project which is displayed below in the current payout: Here is some blockchain information for the last Community Node Payout on 10 October. MN1 Payout (iYQmYLTngqQHeVQzf3nZdDSAYW1wMmD9qC) - 253.0 IONs MN2 Payout (iZiGkguV1JiFGCvyCKTPoWSikn5rDcT6Wg) - 471.50151 IONs MN3 Payout (iiTsA1KMktJgmddiij8kADiak3LKBZyjm2) - 483.00052 IONs MN4 Payout (iigQptDvFfiTgSiJz1qfJKqxrdzuyJ7jTR) - 460.00107 IONs MN5 Payout (iUC8pCRCnKi4eA7mV38W2TLSopfWWoFdJ4) - 264.500015 IONs Total Payout - 1932.003115 IONs Daily Average Masternode Reward - 55.200089 IONs @ 14 cents = $7.73 dollars Minus 1% Pool Fee - 1912.68308385 IONs by 2000 shares = 0.956341541925 IONs per Share
The payout for the MNs reflect a 7 day sum. For more information on the payout, visit http://www.iontalk.net/t/masternode-status-for-10-october/243So the core team refuses to disclose their masternodes? The masternodes that are filled with a bunch of unaccountable FREE coins. This project wreaks, especially with WildShill as the vocal face of ION. Are you going to use your Garza lawyer to force Team Ionomy to disclose their masternodes? or tell you the name of their team? you can file the complaint against the core team... Wildshark, do you have at least a little idea about the reason we keep asking for the number and the addresses of the masternodes that belong to Team Ionomy? Any idea why an investment in ION is an absolute no-go as long as the team masternodes of a premined coin with hyperinflating "nodes" are kept secret? Come on, Wildshark, take a wild guess, it's really not that hard to figure it out. Why do you think we believe this information should be disclosed? It has been released that the bounty/premine coins are not in masternodes and are sitting in staking wallet.. Why is it so hard to prove that? the entire point of crypto is that we don't have to take people's word and can see everything on the blockcain? Even if it's true that the bounty coins aren't in masternodes, what about the free coins that team ION gets by putting the coins that are in "stakers" into masternodes? There is no "free coins" when IONs are placed in stakers. The staking wallet or masternodes competes (known as mining) for each block reward with everyone in the system based on the blockchain algorithm define in the ION white paper @ https://ionomy.com/about/whitepaper |
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suchmoon
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October 14, 2016, 05:15:04 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2016, 07:35:52 PM by suchmoon |
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There is no "free coins" when IONs are placed in stakers. The staking wallet or masternodes competes (known as mining) for each block reward with everyone in the system based on the blockchain algorithm define in the ION white paper @ https://ionomy.com/about/whitepaperWe know what staking is sharkie. Where is the ~1 million coins that the team staked off the bounty/reward funds but didn't add to said funds? These coins are about as free as it gets, since nobody paid for them, or for the original funds pooped into existence by the premine, and there was no "mining" expense of any significance (a $5 VPS?). |
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vanarebane
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October 14, 2016, 05:25:40 PM |
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Oh no, you have to buy another 5 ION to prop the price back up...   It's going to be really hard for you to keep lying about the exchange rate sharkie. Everybody can see it and you'll need actual buy support to move the price in any meaningful way. Even the cheap-ass bot that was running every 3 hours didn't do much for the price. Yeah, no one trades this shit, spread is huge, and the liquidity is almost nothing. |
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CryptoBuds
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October 14, 2016, 07:20:06 PM |
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Oh no, you have to buy another 5 ION to prop the price back up... It's going to be really hard for you to keep lying about the exchange rate sharkie. Everybody can see it and you'll need actual buy support to move the price in any meaningful way. Even the cheap-ass bot that was running every 3 hours didn't do much for the price. Yeah, no one trades this shit, spread is huge, and the liquidity is almost nothing. They will come here and say "it's not a trading coin. It a long term holding investment" and then will not tell you why it is a long term investment. Paycoiner logic at its finest. |
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suchmoon
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October 14, 2016, 07:56:04 PM
Last edit: November 29, 2020, 02:20:24 AM by suchmoon |
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Maybe it's just my Friday mood but I think this is quite amusing even though it's not new, been there since the dawn of ION:  Edited 2020-11-29 to fix a broken imageSo the more you earn of these new-fangled electrons, the future of mobile in-game currency, the more you're gonna have to pay to store them. Or buy stakers and use the electrons up to make more of the depreciating IONs. If this isn't enough to convince "investors" that his whole web-wallet-is-way-better-than-a-real-wallet ideology is bad news, I guess nothing else will. |
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Phildo
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October 14, 2016, 10:02:32 PM |
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ION is a blockchain based decentralized cryptocurrency that rewards network participation via static proof of stake. ION rewards "connectivity age" instead of “coin age,” thus eliminating abuse from exchanges and users that do not actively contribute to the network. By having a static reward system, the rewards for participation are proportional to the work every active node contributes. This discourages centralization and promotes network health. In addition to static rewards, ION implements a masternode network to incentivize large holders, and perform advanced functions such as near instant and private transactions.
The long term vision for ION is a thriving cryptocurrency ecosystem centered on gaming and digital goods.
How many masternodes does the team own? And encouraging everyone to buy stakers is giving all the control to TeamION...centralized. @CryptoBuds I think you are very confused because there is no TeamION! ION is a POS coin that has developers supporting and maintaining the new coin... Masternodes are setup by the user when the user has 20K IONs to stake and shares in the blockchain rewards... Semantics. How many masternodes does the team own? How much of the premine is in masternodes? How many free coins is the team minting? And don't tell me there is no team. That's a blatant fucking lie and I'm not confused. You're the one looking through rose colored glasses. But you're in too deep to actually want to ask critical questions. You're nothing by a shill that comes up with every excuse to not answer questions. Masternodes are decentralized and maintain by users with an ION wallet. Here is a screen shot showing that there is currently 151 ION Masternodes in the system. I didn't ask how many masternodes there were total, quit dancing around the question. How many masternodes does the "team" control? Or whomever controls the premine, since you enjoy the word games. The only team that advertises their masternodes is the Community Masternode Project which is displayed below in the current payout: Here is some blockchain information for the last Community Node Payout on 10 October. MN1 Payout (iYQmYLTngqQHeVQzf3nZdDSAYW1wMmD9qC) - 253.0 IONs MN2 Payout (iZiGkguV1JiFGCvyCKTPoWSikn5rDcT6Wg) - 471.50151 IONs MN3 Payout (iiTsA1KMktJgmddiij8kADiak3LKBZyjm2) - 483.00052 IONs MN4 Payout (iigQptDvFfiTgSiJz1qfJKqxrdzuyJ7jTR) - 460.00107 IONs MN5 Payout (iUC8pCRCnKi4eA7mV38W2TLSopfWWoFdJ4) - 264.500015 IONs Total Payout - 1932.003115 IONs Daily Average Masternode Reward - 55.200089 IONs @ 14 cents = $7.73 dollars Minus 1% Pool Fee - 1912.68308385 IONs by 2000 shares = 0.956341541925 IONs per Share
The payout for the MNs reflect a 7 day sum. For more information on the payout, visit http://www.iontalk.net/t/masternode-status-for-10-october/243So the core team refuses to disclose their masternodes? The masternodes that are filled with a bunch of unaccountable FREE coins. This project wreaks, especially with WildShill as the vocal face of ION. Are you going to use your Garza lawyer to force Team Ionomy to disclose their masternodes? or tell you the name of their team? you can file the complaint against the core team... Wildshark, do you have at least a little idea about the reason we keep asking for the number and the addresses of the masternodes that belong to Team Ionomy? Any idea why an investment in ION is an absolute no-go as long as the team masternodes of a premined coin with hyperinflating "nodes" are kept secret? Come on, Wildshark, take a wild guess, it's really not that hard to figure it out. Why do you think we believe this information should be disclosed? It has been released that the bounty/premine coins are not in masternodes and are sitting in staking wallet.. Why is it so hard to prove that? the entire point of crypto is that we don't have to take people's word and can see everything on the blockcain? Even if it's true that the bounty coins aren't in masternodes, what about the free coins that team ION gets by putting the coins that are in "stakers" into masternodes? There is no "free coins" when IONs are placed in stakers. The staking wallet or masternodes competes (known as mining) for each block reward with everyone in the system based on the blockchain algorithm define in the ION white paper @ https://ionomy.com/about/whitepaperSo where does my 15% APR come from when I "load" a "staker" (quotation marks because they are not things that exist) with 1000 coins? Is team Ion going to give me coins from the premine? Or are they going to take those 1000 coins, stake them (either in a regular wallet or a masternode) and pay me 15% APR and keep the rest? |
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o0o0
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October 14, 2016, 11:15:15 PM |
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Maybe it's just my Friday mood but I think this is quite amusing even though it's not new, been there since the dawn of ION:  So the more you earn of these new-fangled electrons, the future of mobile in-game currency, the more you're gonna have to pay to store them. Or buy stakers and use the electrons up to make more of the depreciating IONs. If this isn't enough to convince "investors" that his whole web-wallet-is-way-better-than-a-real-wallet ideology is bad news, I guess nothing else will. Don't forget that electrons aren't actually a blockchain asset they are just a database entry. On top of this nobody else can utilise electrons in their ecosystem i.e. make a competing electron like wallet. So this becomes a centralised single point of failure use device for games. When their microsoft access database goes down or their $5 vps isn't paid at months end you can't access your upgraded $5 electron vault. Seems to me they tried to use ion in their games but apple and google didn't allow it so they went to electrons and now ion doesn't actually really do anything except give them a crowd fundraiser to make money at the start. At least paycoin tried to use their coin.... |
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CryptoBuds
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October 15, 2016, 12:05:14 AM |
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Maybe it's just my Friday mood but I think this is quite amusing even though it's not new, been there since the dawn of ION: So the more you earn of these new-fangled electrons, the future of mobile in-game currency, the more you're gonna have to pay to store them. Or buy stakers and use the electrons up to make more of the depreciating IONs. If this isn't enough to convince "investors" that his whole web-wallet-is-way-better-than-a-real-wallet ideology is bad news, I guess nothing else will. They don't even accept ION. LOL! |
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o0o0
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October 15, 2016, 02:05:45 AM |
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Maybe it's just my Friday mood but I think this is quite amusing even though it's not new, been there since the dawn of ION: So the more you earn of these new-fangled electrons, the future of mobile in-game currency, the more you're gonna have to pay to store them. Or buy stakers and use the electrons up to make more of the depreciating IONs. If this isn't enough to convince "investors" that his whole web-wallet-is-way-better-than-a-real-wallet ideology is bad news, I guess nothing else will. They don't even accept ION. LOL! I didn't realise that... its amusing does korvas or wildshark want to respond on why this might be the case? Surely its a question for the team on why if the ionomy is the future and whales heavily invested shouldn't they question the lack of taking ion exclusively which provides no use for the investment in ions and atoms they are so involved in financially? Garza did this same thing and people said why not take paycoin... he couldn't come up with a decent reason. |
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Lord Of The Internet
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October 15, 2016, 03:23:48 AM |
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Maybe it's just my Friday mood but I think this is quite amusing even though it's not new, been there since the dawn of ION: So the more you earn of these new-fangled electrons, the future of mobile in-game currency, the more you're gonna have to pay to store them. Or buy stakers and use the electrons up to make more of the depreciating IONs. If this isn't enough to convince "investors" that his whole web-wallet-is-way-better-than-a-real-wallet ideology is bad news, I guess nothing else will. They don't even accept ION. LOL! I didn't realise that... its amusing does korvas or wildshark want to respond on why this might be the case? Surely its a question for the team on why if the ionomy is the future and whales heavily invested shouldn't they question the lack of taking ion exclusively which provides no use for the investment in ions and atoms they are so involved in financially? Garza did this same thing and people said why not take paycoin... he couldn't come up with a decent reason. You guys are dumb. They don't accept IONs because TeamIonomy are such nice guys and want to give people the chance to get rid of all those worthless bitcoins. Can't you see the vision? I can. And it is magically arousing. |
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Franz_Huber
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October 15, 2016, 06:01:01 AM |
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Don't forget that electrons aren't actually a blockchain asset they are just a database entry.
Their using electrons and atmos cuz this is PoS 3.0!!! u obviuosly didnt do ur diligence cuz it even says PoS 3.0 in the title of this thread!!! |
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o0o0
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October 15, 2016, 09:00:26 AM |
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Don't forget that electrons aren't actually a blockchain asset they are just a database entry.
Their using electrons and atmos cuz this is PoS 3.0!!! u obviuosly didnt do ur diligence cuz it even says PoS 3.0 in the title of this thread!!! when will they let me stake bitcoin? josh garza had plans to stake bitcoin. maybe ion team should pay him a bounty? |
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CryptoBuds
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1042
HODL
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October 15, 2016, 01:32:32 PM |
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Don't forget that electrons aren't actually a blockchain asset they are just a database entry.
Their using electrons and atmos cuz this is PoS 3.0!!! u obviuosly didnt do ur diligence cuz it even says PoS 3.0 in the title of this thread!!! when will they let me stake bitcoin? josh garza had plans to stake bitcoin. maybe ion team should pay him a bounty? Not to take ridiculousness away from Garza, but I think it was Caramello that asked about staking bitcoins. Regardless, they come from the same camp. |
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