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Author Topic: Silver oz price dipping to $29.70 and Bitcoin hitting $27.50, gap closing fast  (Read 3122 times)
solex
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February 15, 2013, 07:42:41 PM
 #1

Bitcoin nearly reached parity with the silver oz during its bubble in 2011 (peaking at $32 when silver was at $34).

Now, in Feb 2013, it is likely to achieve that milestone. If the fundamentals remain strong it will stay there.

Any of the millions of precious metal enthusiasts who have put their savings into silver should be considering that a percentage of it would be better invested elsewhere!

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February 15, 2013, 07:48:21 PM
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Yes.  Parity.  Here we come!!!
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February 15, 2013, 08:48:23 PM
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Incredible to say the least. Silver as money is as old as civilization.

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."
-- Lord Acton 1877.
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February 15, 2013, 08:57:20 PM
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Incredible to say the least. Silver as money is as old as civilization.

This is exactly what has me so amazed about bitcoin. It has bootstrapped itself from zero value 4.1 years ago to a serious rival for precious metals on its own merits. Sure it has been volatile, but overall, this achievement for a new paradigm and new technology is astounding.

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February 15, 2013, 09:10:32 PM
 #5

bye bye silver, welcome BTC in the precius "metal"

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February 17, 2013, 02:05:02 AM
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bye bye silver, welcome BTC in the precius "metal"

Yeah, have you seen it?

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February 17, 2013, 02:15:50 AM
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hahaha, and number 111 is very binary too!

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February 17, 2013, 02:40:57 AM
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Love that Bitcoinium!
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this statement is false


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February 17, 2013, 02:41:22 AM
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Now, in Feb 2013, it is likely to achieve that milestone. If the fundamentals remain strong it will stay there.

unless we bubble up, this is unlikely. all indicators now point to a reversal. it may not happen, but it is probable.

i'm still a long-term bull, though. i'd be surprised if the all-time high wasn't broken in 2013.

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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February 19, 2013, 11:12:16 AM
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bye bye silver, welcome BTC in the precius "metal"
There is no chance in hell silver as money can be replaced with bitcoin. You see, gold and silver are money and have always been because of their physical properties which make them perfectly suited for being money. Gold and silver are durable, divisible, convenient, fungible and has intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not: it is just internet cash, useful but no more.
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February 19, 2013, 11:29:59 AM
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bye bye silver, welcome BTC in the precius "metal"
There is no chance in hell silver as money can be replaced with bitcoin. You see, gold and silver are money and have always been because of their physical properties which make them perfectly suited for being money. Gold and silver are durable, divisible, convenient, fungible and has intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not: it is just internet cash, useful but no more.

Please read this to see why bitcoin is "virtual" gold
http://dev.economicsofbitcoin.com/mastersthesis/mastersthesis-surda-2012-11-19b.pdf

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February 19, 2013, 11:39:04 AM
 #12

bye bye silver, welcome BTC in the precius "metal"
There is no chance in hell silver as money can be replaced with bitcoin. You see, gold and silver are money and have always been because of their physical properties which make them perfectly suited for being money. Gold and silver are durable, divisible, convenient, fungible and has intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not: it is just internet cash, useful but no more.

Value is completely inside you head. Value expressed in a market price is group psycology. It's so with Bitcoin, as it is with gold and silver.

There is no such thing as intristic value for anything other than things you can eat, a minimum price that any person would pay, otherwise he would cease to be a person, i.e. die of starvation.

Apple stocks detour or downfall  is hurting gold prices. It may not be noticeable because of other factors, but gold value is partly because of it's corrosive resistant properties in electronics which has nothing to do with golds percieved properties as money.

One can easilly imagine a post apocalyptic world where only gold is used as payment. Does that mean that gold will be more expenxsive? No a slaughtered pig might cost 5 ounces, so you would be better off investing in pig farming now than gold.




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February 19, 2013, 11:49:38 AM
 #13

bye bye silver, welcome BTC in the precius "metal"
There is no chance in hell silver as money can be replaced with bitcoin. You see, gold and silver are money and have always been because of their physical properties which make them perfectly suited for being money. Gold and silver are durable, divisible, convenient, fungible and has intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not: it is just internet cash, useful but no more.
Value is completely inside you head. Value expressed in a market price is group psycology. It's so with Bitcoin, as it is with gold and silver. There is no such thing as intristic value for anything other than things you can eat, a minimum price that any person would pay, otherwise he would cease to be a person, i.e. die of starvation.

You are completely wrong. Gold is and has been money because it has characteristics that no other matter on Earth has…

It cannot be:
    - Printed (ask a miner how long it takes to find me and dig it up).
    - Counterfeited (you can try, but a scale will catch it every time).
    - Inflated (It can't be reproduced)
This is why we should not use paper as money.

It cannot be destroyed by;
    - Fire (it takes heat at least 1945.4° F. to melt)
    - Water (It does not rust or tarnish)
    - Time (coins remain recognizable after a thousand years)
    - Computer wreckage of any kind (like bitcoin)
    - It does not rot or decompose over time.
Paper can dissapear on fire, water and time. So does a computer.

It does not need:
    - Feeding (like cattle)
    - Fertilizer (like corn)
    - Maintenance (like printing presses or bitcoin)
    - Electricity / internet (like bitcoin)
    - It does not depend on other people, like bitcoin which depends on other miners for verification

It has no:
    - Time limit (most metal is still in existence)
    - Counterparty risk (remember MF Global?)
    - Shelf life (It never expires)

As a metal, It is uniquely:
    - Malleable (spread without cracking)
    - Ductile (stretch without breaking)
    - Beautiful (ask an Indian bride)

As money, It is:
    - Liquid (easily convertible to cash). This is why land or oil are not used as money.
    - Portable (you can conveniently hold $50,000 in one hand). This is why land is not used as money.
    - Divisible (you can use it in tiny fractions). This is why diamonds are not used as money.
    - Consistent (the same in any quantity, at any place). This is why diamonds / oil / corn / food are not used as money.
    - Private (no one has to know you own it). This is why land cannot be used as money as well.

You can't possibly expect to store safely the value of your labor in bitcoins today and still have it 200 years from now. With gold, you can. You see, gold and silver are the best material to make money with. Trying to make money with something that is not gold/silver is like trying to make an airplane with iron, or a computer with oxygen. It is simply the best material for that purpose: storing value.

So I repeat my claim. My grandsons will inherit the results of my efforts as gold. Yours will not inherit bitcoins.
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February 19, 2013, 12:03:58 PM
 #14

bye bye silver, welcome BTC in the precius "metal"
There is no chance in hell silver as money can be replaced with bitcoin. You see, gold and silver are money and have always been because of their physical properties which make them perfectly suited for being money. Gold and silver are durable, divisible, convenient, fungible and has intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not: it is just internet cash, useful but no more.
Value is completely inside you head. Value expressed in a market price is group psycology. It's so with Bitcoin, as it is with gold and silver. There is no such thing as intristic value for anything other than things you can eat, a minimum price that any person would pay, otherwise he would cease to be a person, i.e. die of starvation.

You are completely wrong. Gold is and has been money because it has characteristics that no other matter on Earth has…

It cannot be:
    - Printed (ask a miner how long it takes to find me and dig it up).
    - Counterfeited (you can try, but a scale will catch it every time).
    - Inflated (It can't be reproduced)
This is why we should not use paper as money.

It cannot be destroyed by;
    - Fire (it takes heat at least 1945.4° F. to melt)
    - Water (It does not rust or tarnish)
    - Time (coins remain recognizable after a thousand years)
    - Computer wreckage of any kind (like bitcoin)
    - It does not rot or decompose over time.
Paper can dissapear on fire, water and time. So does a computer.

It does not need:
    - Feeding (like cattle)
    - Fertilizer (like corn)
    - Maintenance (like printing presses or bitcoin)
    - Electricity / internet (like bitcoin)
    - It does not depend on other people, like bitcoin which depends on other miners for verification

It has no:
    - Time limit (most metal is still in existence)
    - Counterparty risk (remember MF Global?)
    - Shelf life (It never expires)

As a metal, It is uniquely:
    - Malleable (spread without cracking)
    - Ductile (stretch without breaking)
    - Beautiful (ask an Indian bride)

As money, It is:
    - Liquid (easily convertible to cash). This is why land or oil are not used as money.
    - Portable (you can conveniently hold $50,000 in one hand). This is why land is not used as money.
    - Divisible (you can use it in tiny fractions). This is why diamonds are not used as money.
    - Consistent (the same in any quantity, at any place). This is why diamonds / oil are not used as money.
    - Private (no one has to know you own it).

You can't possibly expect to store safely the value of your labor in bitcoins today and still have it 200 years from now. With gold, you can. You see, gold and silver are the best material to make money with. Trying to make money with something that is not gold/silver is like trying to make an airplane with iron, or a computer with oxygen. It is simply the best material for that purpose: storing value.

So I repeat my claim. My grandsons will inherit the results of my efforts as gold. Yours will not inherit bitcoins.

I agree with your last point, Bitcoin have not passed the test of time and I will not enclose a paper wallet in my testament.

The other properties you claim only gold or PM have, Bitcoin also have in virtual way, so yes if you believe the internet will fall at some point in the future you are completely right.


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February 19, 2013, 01:30:06 PM
 #15

Bitcoin nearly reached parity with the silver oz during its bubble in 2011 (peaking at $32 when silver was at $34).

Now, in Feb 2013, it is likely to achieve that milestone. If the fundamentals remain strong it will stay there.

Any of the millions of precious metal enthusiasts who have put their savings into silver should be considering that a percentage of it would be better invested elsewhere!

That's not the point of precious metals and not how to speculate! People hold silver because it is secure. People gain in experimental things like Bitcoin by buying when they're cheap.

Why in the world would someone who was preferring silver to Bitcoin when their value was 1:6 suddenly want to buy Bitcoins at 1:1? That would mean he lost out on the profit in the price rise and THEN sold out his secure asset! Huh

I don't get the point at all. On some fundamental analysis maybe, but with the price hike in the last year the analysis now has to have a sixfold better result to persuade the same person.
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February 19, 2013, 01:33:04 PM
 #16

$1.50 away now

Silver $30
Bitcoin $28.50

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February 19, 2013, 01:35:39 PM
 #17

You are completely wrong. Gold is and has been money because it has characteristics that no other matter on Earth has…

It cannot be:
    - Printed (ask a miner how long it takes to find me and dig it up).
    - Counterfeited (you can try, but a scale will catch it every time).
    - Inflated (It can't be reproduced)
This is why we should not use paper as money.

It cannot be destroyed by;
    - Fire (it takes heat at least 1945.4° F. to melt)
    - Water (It does not rust or tarnish)
    - Time (coins remain recognizable after a thousand years)
    - Computer wreckage of any kind (like bitcoin)
    - It does not rot or decompose over time.
Paper can dissapear on fire, water and time. So does a computer.

It does not need:
    - Feeding (like cattle)
    - Fertilizer (like corn)
    - Maintenance (like printing presses or bitcoin)
    - Electricity / internet (like bitcoin)
    - It does not depend on other people, like bitcoin which depends on other miners for verification

It has no:
    - Time limit (most metal is still in existence)
    - Counterparty risk (remember MF Global?)
    - Shelf life (It never expires)

As a metal, It is uniquely:
    - Malleable (spread without cracking)
    - Ductile (stretch without breaking)
    - Beautiful (ask an Indian bride)

As money, It is:
    - Liquid (easily convertible to cash). This is why land or oil are not used as money.
    - Portable (you can conveniently hold $50,000 in one hand). This is why land is not used as money.
    - Divisible (you can use it in tiny fractions). This is why diamonds are not used as money.
    - Consistent (the same in any quantity, at any place). This is why diamonds / oil / corn / food are not used as money.
    - Private (no one has to know you own it). This is why land cannot be used as money as well.

You can't possibly expect to store safely the value of your labor in bitcoins today and still have it 200 years from now. With gold, you can. You see, gold and silver are the best material to make money with. Trying to make money with something that is not gold/silver is like trying to make an airplane with iron, or a computer with oxygen. It is simply the best material for that purpose: storing value.

So I repeat my claim. My grandsons will inherit the results of my efforts as gold. Yours will not inherit bitcoins.

Ok, now I will tell you all the cons the precious metals have, unlike Bitcoins:

- They can be easily detected magnetically. So thieves or border agents can seize it.
- Thay can't be used to pay instantly worldwide.
- Securing and transporting them is expensive.
- You cant copy and store them in multiple places.
- It's impossible to hide them in an absolutely secure form.
- In a deflationary economy, the precise measure of submultiples needed, imply an exponential increased cost.
- In a big transaction, you need to expend a lot of time analizing every monetary unit involved, searching for counterfeited coins.
- You can't prove ownership without exposing them and yourself.

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February 19, 2013, 01:59:11 PM
 #18

You are completely wrong. Gold is and has been money because it has characteristics that no other matter on Earth has…

It cannot be:
    - Printed (ask a miner how long it takes to find me and dig it up).
    - Counterfeited (you can try, but a scale will catch it every time).
    - Inflated (It can't be reproduced)
This is why we should not use paper as money.

It cannot be destroyed by;
    - Fire (it takes heat at least 1945.4° F. to melt)
    - Water (It does not rust or tarnish)
    - Time (coins remain recognizable after a thousand years)
    - Computer wreckage of any kind (like bitcoin)
    - It does not rot or decompose over time.
Paper can dissapear on fire, water and time. So does a computer.

It does not need:
    - Feeding (like cattle)
    - Fertilizer (like corn)
    - Maintenance (like printing presses or bitcoin)
    - Electricity / internet (like bitcoin)
    - It does not depend on other people, like bitcoin which depends on other miners for verification

It has no:
    - Time limit (most metal is still in existence)
    - Counterparty risk (remember MF Global?)
    - Shelf life (It never expires)

As a metal, It is uniquely:
    - Malleable (spread without cracking)
    - Ductile (stretch without breaking)
    - Beautiful (ask an Indian bride)

As money, It is:
    - Liquid (easily convertible to cash). This is why land or oil are not used as money.
    - Portable (you can conveniently hold $50,000 in one hand). This is why land is not used as money.
    - Divisible (you can use it in tiny fractions). This is why diamonds are not used as money.
    - Consistent (the same in any quantity, at any place). This is why diamonds / oil / corn / food are not used as money.
    - Private (no one has to know you own it). This is why land cannot be used as money as well.

You can't possibly expect to store safely the value of your labor in bitcoins today and still have it 200 years from now. With gold, you can. You see, gold and silver are the best material to make money with. Trying to make money with something that is not gold/silver is like trying to make an airplane with iron, or a computer with oxygen. It is simply the best material for that purpose: storing value.

So I repeat my claim. My grandsons will inherit the results of my efforts as gold. Yours will not inherit bitcoins.

Ok, now I will tell you all the cons the precious metals have, unlike Bitcoins:

- They can be easily detected magnetically. So thieves or border agents can seize it.
- Thay can't be used to pay instantly worldwide.
- Securing and transporting them is expensive.
- You cant copy and store them in multiple places.
- It's impossible to hide them in an absolutely secure form.
- In a deflationary economy, the precise measure of submultiples needed, imply an exponential increased cost.
- In a big transaction, you need to expend a lot of time analizing every monetary unit involved, searching for counterfeited coins.
- You can't prove ownership without exposing them and yourself.

Absolutely! Bitcoin is a very very competitive currency. Thumbs up. But it is not money Wink
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February 19, 2013, 02:18:40 PM
 #19

Silver parity is going to represent  a very special moment in time.
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February 19, 2013, 02:23:06 PM
 #20

This has been covered SOOO many times.  Bitcoin was in fact designed as the perfect money
[/quote]
It cannot be:
    - Printed (ask a miner how long it takes to find me and dig it up).
same with bitcoin.
   - Counterfeited (you can try, but a scale will catch it every time).
bitcoin cannot be counterfeited, but gold counterfeiters can fool many with tungsten

    - Inflated (It can't be reproduced)
Actually a big strike could inflate gold, or advancing technologies that allow mining where previously it was impossible.
But bitcoin really will not inflate above 21m coins

This is why we should not use paper as money.

It cannot be destroyed by;
    - Fire (it takes heat at least 1945.4° F. to melt)
    - Water (It does not rust or tarnish)
    - Time (coins remain recognizable after a thousand years)
    - Computer wreckage of any kind (like bitcoin)
    - It does not rot or decompose over time.
Paper can dissapear on fire, water and time. So does a computer.
Your bitcoins are not ON your computer.  The key to access them is.  So destroying your computer will not have an effect on bitcoin if you have make proper backups.  But I think you are right, bitcoins are a little weaker in this regard in theory.  good luck trying to recover your gold out of the molten slag you safe deposit box became after a fire at the bank though!


It does not need:
    - Feeding (like cattle)
    - Fertilizer (like corn)
    - Maintenance (like printing presses or bitcoin)
    - Electricity / internet (like bitcoin)
    - It does not depend on other people, like bitcoin which depends on other miners for verification
Technically no maintenance or electricity or the internet is needed to hold the coins.  It is only needed to SPEND your coins.
But I think most agree that gold (or actually silver, because gold is worth too much) is the better post-apocalyptic currency.


It has no:
    - Time limit (most metal is still in existence)
    - Counterparty risk (remember MF Global?)
    - Shelf life (It never expires)
same with bitcoin

As money, It is:
    - Liquid (easily convertible to cash). This is why land or oil are not used as money.
    - Portable (you can conveniently hold $50,000 in one hand). This is why land is not used as money.
    - Divisible (you can use it in tiny fractions). This is why diamonds are not used as money.
    - Consistent (the same in any quantity, at any place). This is why diamonds / oil / corn / food are not used as money.
    - Private (no one has to know you own it). This is why land cannot be used as money as well.
Liquid: bitcoin is much easier to spend then gold
portable: bitcoin is more portable and it much harder to steal when properly secured
divisible: Actually gold hits practical limits on divisibility -- a .25 USD coin would be incredibly small and easy to lose
consistent: yes
private: yes, to both but only if proper measures are taken.  if i buy an oz of gold with my credit card, its pretty easy to figure out that I own it.

You can't possibly expect to store safely the value of your labor in bitcoins today and still have it 200 years from now. With gold, you can. You see, gold and silver are the best material to make money with. Trying to make money with something that is not gold/silver is like trying to make an airplane with iron, or a computer with oxygen. It is simply the best material for that purpose: storing value.

So I repeat my claim. My grandsons will inherit the results of my efforts as gold. Yours will not inherit bitcoins.
Bitcoin was designed to be a perfect currency for the global internet economy.
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